Mini Mafia 2

On January 05 2010 16:52 Vivi57 wrote:
I say we kill scamp. He'll post so little that his role won't be too transparent and we'll be forced to kill him for inactivity without gaining new information. This also helps to enforce that mafia must post or they'll be killed for inactivity.

On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote:


I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/

Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays).

On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote:
Dear morans.

On January 05 2010 17:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.

I AM A MEDIC.

+ Show Spoiler [Bullshit] +

On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote:

Hm. Scamp doesn't post much, but what he does post is usually telling, in my experience.

Since all we have on day 1 for choosing a Lynch target is behavioral analysis, I'd rather go after the people who are 'immune' to behavioral analysis. And by this, I mean Chezinu. Usually, all he posts are random references to 'Ace' and 'Brown', and his comments are completely unrelated to the game, its players, its roles, suggested courses of action, etc. That is, in fact, a valid mafia strategy- say a lot of shit so people don't peg you down for being inactive, but never commit to saying something relevant so that you won't be called out for something you said. As it is, the only way for the Town to ever determine his role directly will be through a DT, which I'd rather use on some other big-name players instead (L, Ace).

Leaning: Lynch Chezinu

Then, there's the matter of our other night roles: DTs, Medics, Vigis.

DTs should definitely check out the big-name players. For me, these are: Ace, L. They're basically a big boon in terms of post quality, behavioral analysis and Town leadership if they're Townies, so it's a good idea to see whether we should be rallying around them early or not. And if they're mafia... we'll want them lynched ASAP. Oh, and do remember the Godfather won't show up as mafia in a RC; if a RC comes up Red, the DT knows with 100% certainty that player's mafia. If it doesn't come up red, the DT does not know with 100% certainty whether that player's mafia or not.

Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime.

On January 05 2010 20:22 Zato-1 wrote:

What evidence are you talking about? If it's, "He accused me so I'll accuse him", that's not valid in my book- it leads to Town infighting most of the time, which benefits none but the mafia.

On January 05 2010 21:24 Ace wrote:I agree that killing useless players is always a sound strategy when there isn't a better idea. Of course with the what, 15 or so mafia games played so far that list isn't exactly hard to populate at the moment:

1.) vivi57
2.) nemy
3.) RebirthofLegend

And if any of you remember last game with the huge fuck ups of 3 players in particular the prime candidate for most detrimental to the town is RoL. He doesn't read and is a sheep. He's easily influenced and lets his emotions get to him and rarely if ever helps the town. Last game he didn't even realize he was being manipulated until the very end.

Vivi57 and nemy, well you guys already know how terrible both of them are. It's just that RoL is far worse than either of them.

On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this.

If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him.

You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers.

Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well.

Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it.

So we have 2 topics of interest now:

1) Medic claim
2) Who y'all wanna kill

On January 06 2010 09:00 L wrote:
Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification.

AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW?

HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo

On January 06 2010 10:43 Ace wrote:
First of all one thing I need to make clear: I've seen medics openly claim Day 1 before in similar formats and almost every single time they end in disaster and the town loses. Now before I go into specifics of why, Judge I know you've played on Mafiascum. Assuming they are pretty good over there you've probably seen a lot of possibilities for broken cop/medic claims that is doable in this game. That's the ONLY thing that makes me even remotely think you can be a legit medic. If that wasn't possible I'd just call for your lynch. The reasoning that Mafia wouldn't fake claim a medic because it offers little gain is moot - everyone would come to the same reasoning you just did (logically) and agree the medic is obviously real because no mafia would sac himself.

Which is wrong. Mafia KP is always 1. If we all come to that logical conclusion we in fact now have a Mafia who gained something for nothing because everyone thinks it's so stupid why would they do it.

Now the other reason Medic role claims end in disaster is that if you're lying the real medic doesn't know if you're a Vet false claiming or a Mafia in disguise. Regardless they won't talk to you, the cop can't do anything once he RCs you if you aren't a Medic and you will most certainly be dead soon. I think Scamp said it pretty well earlier: This is a guessing game, but now it's no longer a blind guessing game from the Mafia side but a potential shot of information they shouldn't have this early.

If you're gambit fails and you are really the medic and you die tonight, the game is going to be ridiculously hard for the town. You've got experience. You SHOULD know that with you not being able to be confirmed through medic protections we have no incentive to believe you at all. I'm inclined to say you're move is very anti-town at the moment.

On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please.

On January 07 2010 09:52 L wrote:


The convincing argument is pretty obvious; He's a poor player as you've already accepted, his 6 consecutive posts are emotive and generally content poor. If you prefer him dying to malongo, then you'll switch.

On January 07 2010 10:18 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Now, assuming Judge is blue, i made this little list. Obviously this is just to offer up my thoughts/and summarize the thread, moreso, then actual concrete accusations, because , at least to me, there aren't any.

1. RebirthOfLeGend - obv. against judge , posts a lot of irrelevant info. about previous games. red
2. Ace - likewise, find it funny they agree with each other for once(not like, omg fish funny, just funny in general ) red
3. L green
4. vx70GTOJudgexv blue
5. Scamp - usually quiet when mafia, probably quiet if given a blue role as well. green
6. Zato-1 green
7. Chezinu - i dont see why he wouldn't keep up with his masquerade-ish style of posting if given a blue/red role therefore green
8. nemY - makes a case against judge red
[spoiler]

9. HeavOnEarth - seems to be the general consensus- green
10. Vivi57 - points out inactivity and gives some information in past games referring to scamp, also used the term +EV so <3 green
12. Mikeymoo - seems to be genuinely busy green
13. Malongo - reason im making this post, seems green to me green

On January 07 2010 09:56 L wrote:
The risk/reward for killing you with your activity is pretty favorable compared to killing judge. If judge is telling the truth, he's going to be an active asset to the town. If he isn't, his influence is going to be checked by me and ace at the minimum.

On January 07 2010 11:33 Malongo wrote:

Im inclined to believe L and judge are town. I think theres a gain on lynching RoL because RoL red=> Scamp red (I posted the reasoning clearly). I dont see a bad thing a medic claim because theres gain and no-lose as long as the other blues keep playing smart. Just to add more Milkymoo and Ace can see (or they know) im not really mafia. You can find better candidates to active_lurking boy (and yet again no im not active_lurking i proposed first post to lynch RoL). Given all the post garbage against me im now almost sure all this come from my first post aka lynch RoL.

On January 07 2010 11:41 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
I'm gonna leave for a bit - if I'm not back by deadline and I get lynched, I'll explain everything in postgame.

If I do live, I need a DT to investigate me to further carry out this plan. It WILL continue this as long as you play along with it, got it?

Good.

Peace.

On January 08 2010 17:21 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
You guys are too narrow-minded and retarded if you can't see from all of my posts how checking me would confirm me.

My aim is to bring the town together into a situation where we can win this game. I don't know how many more fucking times I have to say it.

And I don't believe Chez is a DT because this whole thing is too convenient. Do you really believe that he just happened to check a player and find mafia? Do you really think that Chezinu was able to use the PMs he sent out to people to figure out who is who?

You know what he PMed me?

"Bye."

What kind of read is he going to get off of any response from that.

FUCKING. NONE.

Right now, mafia are scared shitless. I managed to convince the town that I'm legit and that I have a plan to break them. And they know by my constant insistence on this plan, I ain't bullshitting them, I'm shooting straight. So they're scrambling.

They have at least one intelligent player on their squad who realizes sacrificing one mafia for the greater good won't alter their KP. So they take MikeyMoo, a player who people had been slightly suspicious of, and they sacrifice him. He's obviously not the GF. They now have Chezinu, who might be the GF covering himself as a DT, and who has been acting arbitrarily all game long, claim that he is a DT and out of nowhere has a guilty. It fits Chez's profile no matter what he draws - he plays like a jackass. He will get the town to lynch Mikeymoo. Mikey will flip mafia. People will buy into "Woo! Chez is DT." Knowing this site's whole "FOLLOW THE PR LOLZ" mentality in the games, they will either a) manipulate his results to push mislynches and kill their cleared or b) get a town circle "established" and have a full list.

BTW, I said my plan would come as soon as I got my confirmed DT check. Without it, my plan is null.

On January 09 2010 05:45 L wrote:
Zato, I thought you were Vig from those PMs, hence my reply to RoL's insinuation that he was going to vigi someone.

Guess i'm bad at reading.

On January 09 2010 07:26 L wrote:
nemY, sup, you're posting a lot of emotional, rather content poor posts today. what's up with that?

On January 09 2010 10:47 L wrote:

I said I meant nemy in that post.

10/10 for reading comprehension.

As for contribution; I've introduced every relevant topic we've talked about thus far. What have you done, by contrast? Lash out in a 6 post spree? Not even going to bother wasting time on your stupidity.
______________

Okay, recap time:

Recap time:

Day 1: Judge claimed. I told him he was retarded for doing so. RoL/Ace led a charge to get Judge killed. I did not agree with killing him, and we ended up killing malongo because we couldn't switch votes to someone else.

During day 1, Judge told me what was supposed to happen today and tomorrow, and I'll be honest; the plan doesn't have holes in it beyond the standard "someone didn't listen" which is what happened. We can run it tomorrow, but if chez really is the DT, I don't think he'll listen to it. Worst case scenario, we trade the DT for the godfather, best case scenario, we probably win the game. Granted judge's prior comments about how powerful a dt/medic combo would be in this format without a roleblocker, I can actually see him attempting to make this trade. That said, there's a slight modification of his plan which removes the possibility of a trade, which I would have presented during the day when it was revealed.

RoL and Ace vote Judge, others vote malongo to stop judge from getting killed. An option to switch the kill target is given and passed on. Malongo dies, is green as most assumed.

On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.

I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.

As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe.

On January 08 2010 16:44 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Chezinu, you are a fucking idiot.

WILL THE DT WHO CHECKED ME PLEASE CONFIRM WITH ME VIA PM. CONFIRM WITH YOUR INVESTIGATION RESULT. IF I HAVE NO CONFIRMATION WITHIN 12 HOURS, I WILL ASSUME NO DT CHECKED ME, FUCKING UP THE PLAN.

If anyone believes that Chez is a DT, you are a fucking idiot. This is a clean and simple bus by mafia as a ploy to throw my plan off. Mikeymoo is probably going to be mafia. Chez is going to sacc a mafioso to attempt to gain trust. Mafia KP does not go down. Chez will start naming off innocents and just cruize mafia to victory with this.

On January 10 2010 02:24 L wrote:


HEY LOOK YOU FIGURED IT OUT.

Nah, the plan was pretty good if you funneled the DT confirmation through someone that was more certain to be green (me for instance, or through zato after his vigi hit goes off, for instance) it essentially pays huge dividends; the only way mafia can fake into it is by risking 2 members. If he's GF, the trade is DT for GF, which is a net plus for mafia because the other two members get off the "dt clock", so to speak, but he never even gets that option if the information is funneled elsewhere: ie through me. Pretty much everything objectively pointed to him not being a medic when he claimed day 1, which is why you should have interpreted the event as someone fake claiming medic for another purpose.

Either way, today we lynch mikey unless someone comes up with something better.

On January 10 2010 14:16 L wrote:


I'm not so much 'okay' with chez's thoughts, so much as I think that regardless of if he's bullshitting or not, mikey should be killed first. If mikey is mafia, we don't vig chez. If mikey is innocent, we vig chez.

Even if mikey flips mafia, I don't think that clears chez.

On January 11 2010 06:05 Zato-1 wrote:
Okay, so. Tonight, I'm hitting Ace. Why? Here's a list of Ace's posts from the last mafia game I played, in which he was mafia:

+ Show Spoiler +
You can easily categorize all of his posts in two categories:

Chaff: He talks but essentially says nothing. Posts # 1 through 6, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 19 and 20 are of this kind.

Guilt Trips: Since he's basically committed to nothing all game, he weighs down on those who have done something whenever they were wrong. Posts #7, 11, 13, 17, 18, 21, 22 and 23 are of this kind.

Ace's strategy was to sit back, feign activity, and pounce on Town members whenever they made a mistake.

Now, take a look at Ace's posts in the current game:
+ Show Spoiler +

Yeah, that's a lot of posts alright. But, I've done some work and categorized them for you again:

Chaff posts where he makes comments and maybe triest to set a mood or give an idea of his thoughts: Posts #1 through 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 40, 41, 44, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 51 and 52.

Posts with content:
Posts #34, 36, 37, 38, 42 and 43 are essentially guilt trips; someone did a mistake, and he's calling them out on it. Posts #8, 13, 15, 18, 23 and 39 are posts in which he justifies attempts to lynch Judge for his day 1 roleclaiming.

Now for the analysis:
- There's nothing suspicious about making Chaff posts. Everyone makes them, some more than others.

- Guilt Trip posts are of a different kind; when the Town makes a mistake, instead of trying to pick up the broken pieces and move on to the next course of action, Ace focuses on kicking the parties responsible for the mistake while they're down. This is done to lower Town morale and attempt to make Town players bitter, and recriminate themselves about who's responsible for what- while he sits back and watches.

- His posts against Judge are probably just the fact that his dislike for day 1 roleclaiming happened to coincide with a daring Town initiative for getting organized. Two birds with one stone there (personal satisfaction & lynching a potential Town organizer), and he can just blame his zeal against day 1 roleclaiming for persecuting Judge.

- What seems to be the connecting trend between Ace's posts? The only thing he's actually committed to, was persecuting Judge, and for a pretty bad reason at that ("I think he's lying about being a Medic, so he has to be mafia"). Other than that, he's content to sit back, make a lot of posts with little substance, and punish Town members when they make a wrong call. Does this seem like a game-winning plan for Town to you? 'cause it looks a lot more like a mafia trying to sow dissent among the Town while appearing to be active, to me.

For this reason, tonight I am going to kill Ace.

On January 11 2010 06:06 L wrote:


I'm not posting 'just enough' to be active and town-aligned, I'm the most prolific poster in this game, and I'm driving a huge amount of content. When Chez was originally set up as the fall guy for the claims, I drove to push his target to get killed. I kept judge alive day one because I knew what he was doing. I called out Ace, did most of the analysis on the judge claim, asked questions NO ONE asked prior to me; Why was no one talking about judge's claim prior to my 'why are you guys not talking about it?!' Why was no one talking about Heavonerth's selection for the mafia hit? Why was no one talking about lynch targets day 1.

I'll tell you why no one was talking about it; because there are a few consistent posters that posted prior to me opening up the discussions that simply didn't want to talk about said subjects. If there's an active godfather this game, he's likely in that group.

I mean, what exactly has anyone else done that puts them above that threshold? I can see a case being made for putting chez on the list given mikey's death, and no one else, really.

On January 11 2010 12:34 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:


Lol, just because you suck as much as Ace, doesn't mean you have to get in a hissy fit.

On January 11 2010 14:44 Chezinu wrote:
So do you guys want to guess my role?

On January 11 2010 15:38 L wrote:
Well, that does indeed explain everything. RoL I'm surprised you didn't realize we were going to kill him given that you knew he wasn't a medic because of your role.

On January 11 2010 15:39 L wrote:

Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you.

On January 11 2010 18:59 Incognito wrote:


I don't think you need to ask that after protecting YOURSELF twice in a row :D

On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:


You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed.

You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1.

That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1.