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On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote:
Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now.
For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake.
GIF of the longest 1 second
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On August 02 2012 05:54 Klogon wrote:It's good to see people admit they are wrong. Seriously people need to be able to do that more often. It's okay to be wrong and make a mistake and admit to it. Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 04:45 TehPrime wrote:
Korea got their women's fencing gold.. but the announcer said "people's republic of korea". Jesus christ, how stupid can you be. LOL yeah but I love how nobody cared bc they were too happy
I'm not expert in this, but from what my friend was explaining to me they were doing it so she wouldn't try to sue them, which could award her up to $16.1million USD. I don't have any sources though, other than what my friend told me ^^
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I feel so bad for the SK fencer, she was robbed of a gold medal. Her expression says it all...
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On August 02 2012 13:05 lisward wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote:
Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now. For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake. GIF of the longest 1 second
I'm not contesting the fact that the last second lasted longer than normal but the fact that the judges made a mistake in their decision. Let's see the reaction time of a professional swimmer Missy Franklin at the start of the Women's 200m Freestyle Relay : 0.79 s. That's the reaction time of a trained athlete whose all body is focused on starting at the right time. Now compare that to yours, and to the time keeper. I see a probable scenario where the timekeeper didn't start the clock because she didn't have a reaction time that fast. And as I said before, it was in Epee, all she had to do was touch too (as a double touch would count), but she didn't. She wasn't robbed because ultimately the outcome of the match wasn't decided by the judges.
Whose responsibility is it in this case ? Why can't the athletes be a little more responsible and ask why the time isn't kept correctly ? Should the judge say the bout is over when there is time in the clock ? What would have thought the German ? Are automatic clocks required ?
It's too easy to take the side of the crying one because of her emotions but a complex situation like the one that happened demands much more than knee-jerk reactions and overzealous statements. There is certainly things to improve and the FIE admitted that they could have done a better job.
And lastly I'd like all of you to think about the poor volunteer who must feel terrible after this because all of the world is hating on her. In rowing, I once saw a volunteer crying after the boat she was asked to keep straight didn't and they ended up disqualified. It wasn't the Olympics but she felt responsible even though she wasn't because it is the rowers responsibility to keep the boat straight and not the volunteer ...
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The time shouldn't be started and ended manually. They should play a sound when they start the clock and stop the clock automatically when somebody hits the opponent. As long as somebody has to hit a button to start and stop the clock, there will be longer or shorter seconds all the time and the fencer have to fight till someone says it's over.
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On August 02 2012 01:03 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 06:55 Otolia wrote:On August 01 2012 06:19 tree.hugger wrote:
Amazing foil final, but especially amazing; no Europeans in the top three. That's a super cool result. Super cool ? SUPER COOL ? It's dramatic. A chinese winner wasn't too curious as their team is strong right now. But the french falled (including a match against Choi that I will watch soon) and then Italy decided to let go of their pride as well. If Men's Epee and Women's Sabre are without European as well, I'll cry. Let the tears hit the floor. At least UKR, RUS, and NOR still have fencers in, but the major European contenders are out! Sorta excited to see how Kelsey does since lisward won't stop hyping him up to me and the USA hasn't had much presence in this event before. Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 23:25 Cubu wrote:
question about the korean vs german semis: Why does the korean go through if they were to draw 5-5? Randomly determined priority (announced at the start of the last 1min).
And how exactly is this fair?
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On August 02 2012 17:09 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 13:05 lisward wrote:On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote:
Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now. For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake. GIF of the longest 1 second I'm not contesting the fact that the last second lasted longer than normal but the fact that the judges made a mistake in their decision. Let's see the reaction time of a professional swimmer Missy Franklin at the start of the Women's 200m Freestyle Relay : 0.79 s. That's the reaction time of a trained athlete whose all body is focused on starting at the right time. Now compare that to yours, and to the time keeper. I see a probable scenario where the timekeeper didn't start the clock because she didn't have a reaction time that fast. And as I said before, it was in Epee, all she had to do was touch too (as a double touch would count), but she didn't. She wasn't robbed because ultimately the outcome of the match wasn't decided by the judges. Whose responsibility is it in this case ? Why can't the athletes be a little more responsible and ask why the time isn't kept correctly ? Should the judge say the bout is over when there is time in the clock ? What would have thought the German ? Are automatic clocks required ? It's too easy to take the side of the crying one because of her emotions but a complex situation like the one that happened demands much more than knee-jerk reactions and overzealous statements. There is certainly things to improve and the FIE admitted that they could have done a better job. And lastly I'd like all of you to think about the poor volunteer who must feel terrible after this because all of the world is hating on her. In rowing, I once saw a volunteer crying after the boat she was asked to keep straight didn't and they ended up disqualified. It wasn't the Olympics but she felt responsible even though she wasn't because it is the rowers responsibility to keep the boat straight and not the volunteer ...
You have no idea what you are talking about. It's extremely easy and it doesn't require any sort of light ing fast reflexes to press the button on time because you can clearly hear Allez, and you can sees the referee's hands drop when she says Allez. Also, they dont use amateur 'volunteers' when refereeing a top level fencing match. Do you even fence? This situation IS a knee jerk situation, because had the time keeping been done competently it could have gone to the other fencer. Ironic how you are saying people are 'white knighting' here.
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Korea wins the bronze in team fencing. First time Korea won team fencing in the history.
France got destroyed.
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On August 02 2012 21:36 lisward wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 17:09 Otolia wrote:On August 02 2012 13:05 lisward wrote:On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote:
Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now. For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake. GIF of the longest 1 second I'm not contesting the fact that the last second lasted longer than normal but the fact that the judges made a mistake in their decision. Let's see the reaction time of a professional swimmer Missy Franklin at the start of the Women's 200m Freestyle Relay : 0.79 s. That's the reaction time of a trained athlete whose all body is focused on starting at the right time. Now compare that to yours, and to the time keeper. I see a probable scenario where the timekeeper didn't start the clock because she didn't have a reaction time that fast. And as I said before, it was in Epee, all she had to do was touch too (as a double touch would count), but she didn't. She wasn't robbed because ultimately the outcome of the match wasn't decided by the judges. Whose responsibility is it in this case ? Why can't the athletes be a little more responsible and ask why the time isn't kept correctly ? Should the judge say the bout is over when there is time in the clock ? What would have thought the German ? Are automatic clocks required ? It's too easy to take the side of the crying one because of her emotions but a complex situation like the one that happened demands much more than knee-jerk reactions and overzealous statements. There is certainly things to improve and the FIE admitted that they could have done a better job. And lastly I'd like all of you to think about the poor volunteer who must feel terrible after this because all of the world is hating on her. In rowing, I once saw a volunteer crying after the boat she was asked to keep straight didn't and they ended up disqualified. It wasn't the Olympics but she felt responsible even though she wasn't because it is the rowers responsibility to keep the boat straight and not the volunteer ... You have no idea what you are talking about. It's extremely easy and it doesn't require any sort of light ing fast reflexes to press the button on time because you can clearly hear Allez, and you can sees the referee's hands drop when she says Allez. Also, they dont use amateur 'volunteers' when refereeing a top level fencing match. Do you even fence? This situation IS a knee jerk situation, because had the time keeping been done competently it could have gone to the other fencer. Ironic how you are saying people are 'white knighting' here.
Reflexes are reflexes, pressing a button is no different than jumping towards someone, the difference between the beginning of a movement and its end She is most likely a fencer so she was more able than not to press accurately the button within the second but she didn't and unless you want to argue about a decision from the time keeper to purposefully fix the match, we can say she tried her best. And her best wasn't enough ... Did she forgot ? Did she tried but wasn't fast enough ? Was the machine responsible ? Some areas are still quite unclear and nobody here has proposed a single explanation as to how it happened. So much questions, and so little discussion. It's alright, I'll drop the case since people aren't keen on debating...
PS :knee-jerk : An automatic response to something. Applies to the choir of pity towards Lam and hate towards Heidemann.
In other news, I really appreciate the Women's Foil Event. The final was bad but the Italians were so good, it didn't matter anyway. I only catch a glimpse of the bronze match, Korean Fencing has improved too fast for us. :/
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what are you talking about, the time is manually started and automatically stopped.
But the problem was that the clock only had a resolution of 1 second, so they only had the choice to set it to zero and make the german automatically lose despite there being time left or set it to 1 again.
this was allready explained by officials, there is nothing unclear or shady going on.
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On August 03 2012 06:45 LaNague wrote:
what are you talking about, the time is manually started and automatically stopped.
But the problem was that the clock only had a resolution of 1 second, so they only had the choice to set it to zero and make the german automatically lose despite there being time left or set it to 1 again.
this was allready explained by officials, there is nothing unclear or shady going on.
The clock has less than a 1s resolution (because of the purity of quartz piezo-electricity), the screen apparently doesn't. The decision is clear and motivated. But if the clock is stopped automatically, the clock cannot have hit 0:00. That's impossible for the reason I said before (considering the system is adequately designed).
It's puzzling to me.
Edit : The more I think about it, the more I am wondering how the system is designed. The only human mistake I can imagine happening aside from the time keeper not starting the time is a false knowledge of clock and as such the bad call to reset the clock. :/ Still it doesn't explain why the clock hit 0:00.
Edit 2 : Why did they reset the clock (I seem to be unable to read tonight) ... It didn't hit zero during the match but outside. There was no need for that just keep it running ...
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Holy shit @ Korea's men team fencers in final.
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/captureq0a1w.png)
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Damnn score wasnt even close. Korea is 2nd country to have 2 golds in fencing after Italy
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was in the arena for the semi finals of the men's sabre, I've not watched much fencing but it was great fun and a good atmosphere. Saw Korea get into the final which was great, happy to see this result.
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korea came out of nowhere in fencing like mexico in archery.
korea upset great britain and brazil in football, gogogo!
footwork is great in korean fencing, anyone else see that anklebreaker (basketball term) korea vs romania round 5?
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Korea vs China finals for Women's Epee, should be good.
Korea in the running for most decorated fencing country!
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A commending showing from the Korean team. With the notable decline of Hungary and France, it left some places for upcoming nations to grab some medals (China and Japan) but I certainly didn't expect such a dominant showing from Korea.
notbad.jpg
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Are there VODs of the South-Korea's fencing matches? I couldn't watch the matches live because of work.
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Finally got to catch a fencing match between S. Korea and the U.S. I'm very impressed how SK shot out of nowhere in this sport, and that A.L Shin gets a chance for a gold after her individual event controversy.
Anyone else notice that aside from Park Taehwan, the Koreans are dominating at combat-related events? That's scary.
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That's cause koreans are planning a mari- time invasion by swimming to your coast, tackling fools with judo chops and stab you while retreating with covering bow fire /shrug
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EPT
