Fencing is one of four sports which have been featured at every one of the recent Olympic Games. The sport of fencing is divided into three weapons:
Foil—a light thrusting weapon that targets the torso, including the back, but not the arms. Touches are scored only with the tip; hits with the side of the blade do not count, and do not halt the action. Touches that land outside of the target area (off-target) stop the action, and are not scored. Only a single hit can be scored by either fencer at one time. If both fencers hit at the same time, the referee uses the rules of right of way to determine which fencer gets the point.
Sabre—a light cutting and thrusting weapon that targets the entire body above the waist, excluding the hands. Hits with the edges of the blade as well as the tip are valid. As in foil, touches which land outside of the target area are not scored. However, unlike foil, these off-target touches do not stop the action, and the fencing continues. In the case of both fencers landing a scoring touch, the referee determines which fencer receives the point for the action, again through the use of "right of way".
Épée—a heavier thrusting weapon that targets the entire body. All hits must be with the tip and not the sides of the blade. Touches hit by the side of the blade do not halt the action. Unlike foil and sabre, Épée does not use right of way, and allows simultaneous hits by both fencers. However, if the score is tied at the last point and a double touch is scored, nobody is awarded the point.
Lovely how the guide leaves out that bit about Right of Way XD. Without it, all the screaming and cursing athletes do after every match doesn't make sense.
Don't follow or spectate fencing much, since it goes by way too fast (Been fencing for four years, still can't follow the action).
But looking forward to all the action! 2008 Beijing olympics got me into fencing. Maybe 2012 will reignite my passion.
Holy crap I'm looking at the Athletes now, that Vietnamese dude that qualified, roflstomped me in the South East Asian Fencing Federation Epee Juniors two years ago in Brunei, he's wickedly sick.
Once again not having all the competition makes me cringe. There is no reason not to have team competitions for Epée men and Sabre women. In 2008 there was no men fleuret and no women épée. Are they really going to switch it every fucking time ?!
I hope that we get more medals than Italy to finally get ahead of them.
On July 20 2012 22:25 Otolia wrote: Once again not having all the competition makes me cringe. There is no reason not to have team competitions for Epée men and Sabre women. In 2008 there was no men fleuret and no women épée. Are they really going to switch it every fucking time ?!
I hope that we get more medals than Italy to finally get ahead of them.
Men's Epee team in my opinion is the most exciting event! I'll be cheering for France to win the Men's indiv Epee, but fan of Grumier and the French style of fencing
So pumped. Team USA keeps improving year after year, although Beijing will be hard to top in Sabre. But Men's foil is exciting for the first time in forever for the US!
I fenced Race Imboden once, he was already A, and I was E... got destroyed 1-5, BUT I got one touch on a counter with a lot of target contortions. :D
On July 20 2012 17:31 lisward wrote: Holy crap I'm looking at the Athletes now, that Vietnamese dude that qualified, roflstomped me in the South East Asian Fencing Federation Epee Juniors two years ago in Brunei, he's wickedly sick.
Wasn't the YOG awesome? Its a shame that it didn't get more publicity out of S'Pore. I only went to the Track Events since it was close to where I was staying. Didn't get to see fencing
No idea about any of the rules but I'm damned well watching. My grandfather gave me an épée when I was a kid and I love hitting things with it. So fencing has to kick ass by my logic.
On July 20 2012 17:31 lisward wrote: Holy crap I'm looking at the Athletes now, that Vietnamese dude that qualified, roflstomped me in the South East Asian Fencing Federation Epee Juniors two years ago in Brunei, he's wickedly sick.
Wasn't the YOG awesome? Its a shame that it didn't get more publicity out of S'Pore. I only went to the Track Events since it was close to where I was staying. Didn't get to see fencing
WAS IT FUCKING AWESOME? Okay, for ANY of you Epee fencers, heck any fencers should understand this. Germany vs Italy in the Men's Epee indiv finals, the German is this 2 metres tall dude who posts with a french grip, the Italian is this guy with incredible blade work, but very weird foot work. Anyway, it was like what 1 minute 30 seconds left or something, and then it was fucking 14-9, in favor of the German. The Italian caught up to 14-13. 2 Seconds left. Did a running attack and took it to priority. And won. Needless to say that was fucking Kickass, but I don't understand why I can't find any VODS of this...
If I'm not mistaken USA didn't really give it's full support to the YOG, they didn't send all of their top athletes to represent them at the events, maybe not for Fencing, though Lee Kiefer didn't come. This is pure speculation on my part, but I think this is caused in part by the fact that USA always had their own Junior Olympics.
On July 21 2012 15:37 ZaplinG wrote: anyone have any good videos of the upcoming athletes? I'd search myself but I know next to nothing and have no idea where to even start.
What an amazing females fencing finals. The fight for the bronze was so intense! The fight for the gold was simple awesome. Consider me a fan of fencing now!
On July 29 2012 04:17 climax wrote: What an amazing females fencing finals. The fight for the bronze was so intense! The fight for the gold was simple awesome. Consider me a fan of fencing now!
If you consider a training exercise between the 3 best foil fencer in the world, prepare to be mind blown during the team events ^^
On July 21 2012 12:41 Sanctimonius wrote: Fencing is awesome, did it in Uni and it was a lot of fun.
Fun fact no.1: Fencers have the highest muscle density in the Olympics, in their thighs.
Fun fact no.2: Behind a bullet, the fastest moving thing in the Olympics is the tip of a foil.
Brought to you by the St Andrews Fencing association.
I don't know about number 1. I'd like to know where that association came up with that fact because I can think of many other sports where the muscle density would be higher like Rowing for example. ._.
Been watching women's foil on/off the whole day, very interesting matches, finals lived up to the hype kinda expected results. Tomorrow is men's sabre right? I like watching sabre the most, it seems the most dynamic/fun, very fast and very simple. Five years of Kendo has made me appreciate the physical and mental toll sword sports/martial arts can take on you, how much strength and concentration it takes to score one point. Though there are huge differences competitively speaking. Absolutely no outward showing of emotion in kendo (you get automatic DQ for doing 1/10th the celebrating these guys do ^^ ), and of course you use two hands instead of one. Seeing as kendo will never be at the Olympics fencing has my absolute viewing interest. Will be rooting for Hungary in everything ^^
On July 21 2012 12:41 Sanctimonius wrote: Fencing is awesome, did it in Uni and it was a lot of fun.
Fun fact no.1: Fencers have the highest muscle density in the Olympics, in their thighs.
Fun fact no.2: Behind a bullet, the fastest moving thing in the Olympics is the tip of a foil.
Brought to you by the St Andrews Fencing association.
I don't know about number 1. I'd like to know where that association came up with that fact because I can think of many other sports where the muscle density would be higher like Rowing for example. ._.
I doubt it's true, I'm pretty sure the Olympic lifters at the lower weight classes have higher muscle density..
On July 29 2012 05:41 ahappystar wrote: Tomorrow is men's sabre right?
Yep.
3rd place match was fantastic, really impressive comeback from Vezzali.
I was screaming at my computer at Nam for being pushed back so much. Then I realized it was a VOD Vezzali was amazing. Scoring, what, 4 points? In under 15 seconds?
And then that priority time. Vezzali not even bothering to bleed clock. I love it when fencers say "Fuck you" to the clock when they have priority and just score a touch.
On July 29 2012 05:41 ahappystar wrote: Tomorrow is men's sabre right?
Yep.
3rd place match was fantastic, really impressive comeback from Vezzali.
I was screaming at my computer at Nam for being pushed back so much. Then I realized it was a VOD Vezzali was amazing. Scoring, what, 4 points? In under 15 seconds?
And then that priority time. Vezzali not even bothering to bleed clock. I love it when fencers say "Fuck you" to the clock when they have priority and just score a touch.
Amazing finals.
They don't call her the best fencer of all time for no reason
On July 29 2012 05:41 ahappystar wrote: Tomorrow is men's sabre right?
Yep.
3rd place match was fantastic, really impressive comeback from Vezzali.
I was screaming at my computer at Nam for being pushed back so much. Then I realized it was a VOD Vezzali was amazing. Scoring, what, 4 points? In under 15 seconds?
And then that priority time. Vezzali not even bothering to bleed clock. I love it when fencers say "Fuck you" to the clock when they have priority and just score a touch.
Amazing finals.
Anyone knows where i can find on the web the VOD of the foil finals?
On July 29 2012 05:41 ahappystar wrote: Tomorrow is men's sabre right?
Yep.
3rd place match was fantastic, really impressive comeback from Vezzali.
I was screaming at my computer at Nam for being pushed back so much. Then I realized it was a VOD Vezzali was amazing. Scoring, what, 4 points? In under 15 seconds?
And then that priority time. Vezzali not even bothering to bleed clock. I love it when fencers say "Fuck you" to the clock when they have priority and just score a touch.
Amazing finals.
Anyone knows where i can find on the web the VOD of the foil finals?
To be specific, it was the 3rd place match he's referring to. That said, I have no idea.
These overtime are absolutely ridiculous? Would like Heidemann to advance, but it would leave a bad taste. However she would be the last one to blame, that's for sure.
dunno about the rules, since i've no clue aboutQQ. but if the timer never moves forward when the hit lands before one second has passed hence the one second is always a whole second I think everything is alright and Heidemann should move on. BUT if the milliseconds also count to the timer I think the reset from 0 to 1 second screwed the whole thing and the korean should have won.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
German scored the winning touch in the last second.
The problem is, the 'last second' lasted for 4 seconds.
And now the public announcer just said that the Koreans have to pay for their appeal to be heard. Why the hell would you do this? You're just tarnishing the Olympic Games as a 'pay to win' contest.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
Overtime: coinflip decided the korean would win if no one scored in overtime (with the opponent not scoring the same time). No decision happens, but in the last seconds the german fencer furiously attacks, resulting in both scoring at the same time repeatedly.
Clock is at 0:01, the german attacks (the whole action taking less than 1 second). Same thing again, clock still at 0:01. Then the german scores winning the match. Now confusion starts over timekeeping. It seemed as if the clock only counts full seconds, and since every of the last 3 action took less than a full second its own (but maybe more than 1 sceond accummulated), the clock didn't jump to 0:00. Or the timekeeper simply wasn't fast enough with the restart (clock automatically stops if one or both score).
Make of this what you want. The korean fencer only waited to counter during overtime and coinflips for decision obviously suck. However with better clock-technique/timekeeping I thinkh she would have advanced. Whatever happened, the fencers should be the last ones to blame imho.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
Overtime: coinflip decided the korean would win if no one scored in overtime (with the opponent not scoring the same time). No decision happens, but in the last seconds the german fencer furiously attacks, resulting in both scoring at the same time repeatedly.
Clock is at 0:01, the german attacks (the whole action taking less than 1 second). Same thing again, clock still at 0:01. Then the german scores winning the match. Now confusion starts over timekeeping. It seemed as if the clock only counts full seconds, and since every of the last 3 action took less than a full second its own (but maybe more than 1 sceond accummulated), the clock didn't jump to 0:00. Or the timekeeper simply wasn't fast enough with the restart (clock automatically stops if one or both score).
Make of this what you want. The korean fencer only waited to counter during overtime and coinflips for decision obviously suck. However with better clock-technique/timekeeping I thinkh she would have advanced. Whatever happened, the fencers should be the last ones to blame imho.
You forgot about the awkward moment, where the clock jumped to 0:00 and suddenly they resetted it back to 0:01. In my opinion it should have ended right there.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
Overtime: coinflip decided the korean would win if no one scored in overtime (with the opponent not scoring the same time). No decision happens, but in the last seconds the german fencer furiously attacks, resulting in both scoring at the same time repeatedly.
Clock is at 0:01, the german attacks (the whole action taking less than 1 second). Same thing again, clock still at 0:01. Then the german scores winning the match. Now confusion starts over timekeeping. It seemed as if the clock only counts full seconds, and since every of the last 3 action took less than a full second its own (but maybe more than 1 sceond accummulated), the clock didn't jump to 0:00. Or the timekeeper simply wasn't fast enough with the restart (clock automatically stops if one or both score).
Make of this what you want. The korean fencer only waited to counter during overtime and coinflips for decision obviously suck. However with better clock-technique/timekeeping I thinkh she would have advanced. Whatever happened, the fencers should be the last ones to blame imho.
You forgot about the awkward moment, where the clock jumped to 0:00 and suddenly they resetted it back to 0:01. In my opinion it should have ended right there.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
Overtime: coinflip decided the korean would win if no one scored in overtime (with the opponent not scoring the same time). No decision happens, but in the last seconds the german fencer furiously attacks, resulting in both scoring at the same time repeatedly.
Clock is at 0:01, the german attacks (the whole action taking less than 1 second). Same thing again, clock still at 0:01. Then the german scores winning the match. Now confusion starts over timekeeping. It seemed as if the clock only counts full seconds, and since every of the last 3 action took less than a full second its own (but maybe more than 1 sceond accummulated), the clock didn't jump to 0:00. Or the timekeeper simply wasn't fast enough with the restart (clock automatically stops if one or both score).
Make of this what you want. The korean fencer only waited to counter during overtime and coinflips for decision obviously suck. However with better clock-technique/timekeeping I thinkh she would have advanced. Whatever happened, the fencers should be the last ones to blame imho.
You forgot about the awkward moment, where the clock jumped to 0:00 and suddenly they resetted it back to 0:01. In my opinion it should have ended right there.
The bout wasn't in progress when the clock went to 0:00, so it couldn't. Unfortunately, they can't reset fractions of a second.
So we now see the flaws in: Timekeeping (and the necessity for decimals) Referees (what the hell kind of en garde distance was that?) Priority rule (random chance creating these situations at all).
Korea should have won what happened, but that situation shouldn't have happened anyway - if Heidemann was made to en garde at a proper distance, who knows if that attack might have worked?
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
Overtime: coinflip decided the korean would win if no one scored in overtime (with the opponent not scoring the same time). No decision happens, but in the last seconds the german fencer furiously attacks, resulting in both scoring at the same time repeatedly.
Clock is at 0:01, the german attacks (the whole action taking less than 1 second). Same thing again, clock still at 0:01. Then the german scores winning the match. Now confusion starts over timekeeping. It seemed as if the clock only counts full seconds, and since every of the last 3 action took less than a full second its own (but maybe more than 1 sceond accummulated), the clock didn't jump to 0:00. Or the timekeeper simply wasn't fast enough with the restart (clock automatically stops if one or both score).
Make of this what you want. The korean fencer only waited to counter during overtime and coinflips for decision obviously suck. However with better clock-technique/timekeeping I thinkh she would have advanced. Whatever happened, the fencers should be the last ones to blame imho.
You forgot about the awkward moment, where the clock jumped to 0:00 and suddenly they resetted it back to 0:01. In my opinion it should have ended right there.
IIRC the clock jumped to 0:00 after the double hit was landed. Asked myself how that was even possible since the clock normally stops right when a hit is landed.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
German scored the winning touch in the last second.
The problem is, the 'last second' lasted for 4 seconds.
And now the public announcer just said that the Koreans have to pay for their appeal to be heard. Why the hell would you do this? You're just tarnishing the Olympic Games as a 'pay to win' contest.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
Overtime: coinflip decided the korean would win if no one scored in overtime (with the opponent not scoring the same time). No decision happens, but in the last seconds the german fencer furiously attacks, resulting in both scoring at the same time repeatedly.
Clock is at 0:01, the german attacks (the whole action taking less than 1 second). Same thing again, clock still at 0:01. Then the german scores winning the match. Now confusion starts over timekeeping. It seemed as if the clock only counts full seconds, and since every of the last 3 action took less than a full second its own (but maybe more than 1 sceond accummulated), the clock didn't jump to 0:00. Or the timekeeper simply wasn't fast enough with the restart (clock automatically stops if one or both score).
Make of this what you want. The korean fencer only waited to counter during overtime and coinflips for decision obviously suck. However with better clock-technique/timekeeping I thinkh she would have advanced. Whatever happened, the fencers should be the last ones to blame imho.
You forgot about the awkward moment, where the clock jumped to 0:00 and suddenly they resetted it back to 0:01. In my opinion it should have ended right there.
Yes you're right. (I really forgot)
didnt the clock went to 0:00 when they weren't even fencing but after both scored. It was weird nontheless.
Juding from how i understand the rules i am very suprised that this does not happen regularly. The random draw-loser has to attack in the last seconds. Since you can make an attack in less than a second, precise time tracking, or more precisely precise procedures to dsallow any ambiguity should be in place. I suspect that usually time tracking is more precise, or a referee's decision is accepted more readily if not that much is on the line.
On July 31 2012 03:35 Leporello wrote: What happened? I just tuned in and the Korean is sulking, hard.
Overtime: coinflip decided the korean would win if no one scored in overtime (with the opponent not scoring the same time). No decision happens, but in the last seconds the german fencer furiously attacks, resulting in both scoring at the same time repeatedly.
Clock is at 0:01, the german attacks (the whole action taking less than 1 second). Same thing again, clock still at 0:01. Then the german scores winning the match. Now confusion starts over timekeeping. It seemed as if the clock only counts full seconds, and since every of the last 3 action took less than a full second its own (but maybe more than 1 sceond accummulated), the clock didn't jump to 0:00. Or the timekeeper simply wasn't fast enough with the restart (clock automatically stops if one or both score).
Make of this what you want. The korean fencer only waited to counter during overtime and coinflips for decision obviously suck. However with better clock-technique/timekeeping I thinkh she would have advanced. Whatever happened, the fencers should be the last ones to blame imho.
You forgot about the awkward moment, where the clock jumped to 0:00 and suddenly they resetted it back to 0:01. In my opinion it should have ended right there.
IIRC the clock jumped to 0:00 after the double hit was landed. Asked myself how that was even possible since the clock normally stops right when a hit is landed.
Yeah timekeeper started time by accident there, that's part of the problem.
This is what happens at sports that don't get a lot of coverage =( I know for a fact that a lot of shady rulings happen all the time in competitive martial arts too but no one ever cares. I really don't understand the pay to appeal rule though, what's that about?
On July 31 2012 04:02 Count9 wrote: This is what happens at sports that don't get a lot of coverage =( I know for a fact that a lot of shady rulings happen all the time in competitive martial arts too but no one ever cares. I really don't understand the pay to appeal rule though, what's that about?
It's a deposit afaik, if your appeal's accepted you get it back. Discourages frivolous battling, I suppose.
This is ugly. Neither of these two are going to win their next bouts, good luck having any mental composure. Incoming UKR gold.
This has been the worst Olympic ever. Korea already robbed of like 3 very possible potential gold medals and series of other terrible calls. They have to respect the ref's decision? MY ASS.
KBS (korean broadcasting) summed up the entire sequence, and the hit came 1.17 seconds after it began at 1 second. Apparently the committee has said that wrong call has been made, but not reverting the decision... I'm just waiting to hear the good news but unlikely..
btw, watching fencing is very irritating - these beeps (also from other lanes) always make me think that some of my household electronics have some sort of malfunction
On July 31 2012 04:13 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: This has been the worst Olympic ever. Korea already robbed of like 3 very possible potential gold medals and series of other terrible calls. They have to respect the ref's decision? MY ASS.
KBS (korean broadcasting) summed up the entire sequence, and the hit came 1.17 seconds after it began at 1 second. Apparently the committee has said that wrong call has been made, but not reverting the decision... I'm just waiting to hear the good news but unlikely..
This is common for Olympic rulings is it not? It seems like they frequently will say the wrong decision was made but not overturn it in order to not undermine the judges.
On July 31 2012 04:13 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: This has been the worst Olympic ever. Korea already robbed of like 3 very possible potential gold medals and series of other terrible calls. They have to respect the ref's decision? MY ASS.
KBS (korean broadcasting) summed up the entire sequence, and the hit came 1.17 seconds after it began at 1 second. Apparently the committee has said that wrong call has been made, but not reverting the decision... I'm just waiting to hear the good news but unlikely..
No olympics can ever be "worse" than ones we had in germany so far.. hopefully.
The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
It's difficult to have an accurate sense of time when in such an intense moment like that, she had adrenaline pumping through her veins and probably thought she did it.
according to the bbc commentators, there was no way shin could have won anyway because she made a technical infringment and had a yellow card against her, even before the whole 1 second debacle
edit: in the event of the draw of course, she still could have gotten a point and won legit etc
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
This is the Olympics bro
Such things like MUNICH will never happen again......
On July 31 2012 04:13 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: This has been the worst Olympic ever. Korea already robbed of like 3 very possible potential gold medals and series of other terrible calls. They have to respect the ref's decision? MY ASS.
KBS (korean broadcasting) summed up the entire sequence, and the hit came 1.17 seconds after it began at 1 second. Apparently the committee has said that wrong call has been made, but not reverting the decision... I'm just waiting to hear the good news but unlikely..
This is common for Olympic rulings is it not? It seems like they frequently will say the wrong decision was made but not overturn it in order to not undermine the judges.
I feel that no other way is pragmatic. If you have no "quick" final ruling, quibbles about decisions would become comon procedure. However "quick" final rulings are prone to mistakes. Imagine declaring half of the winners two days after the event has taken place.... The only way i see is to reduce the amount of mistakes as much as possible, but mistakes will always remain.
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
It's difficult to have an accurate sense of time when in such an intense moment like that, she had adrenaline pumping through her veins and probably thought she did it.
Additionally to that the reason the Korean almost won was because she was given the advantage after a coin-flip. I don't think any fencer would give the win away in that situation.
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
This is the Olympics bro
Such things like MUNICH will never happen again......
I hope so, too!
But u can never say never... maybe something even worse will happen sometime... but again i dont hope so!
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
It's difficult to have an accurate sense of time when in such an intense moment like that, she had adrenaline pumping through her veins and probably thought she did it.
Additionally to that the reason the Korean almost won was because she was given the advantage after a coin-flip. I don't think any fencer would give the win away in that situation.
But to be fair she would have fought differently if she had to score to win rather than just not get hit.
it may be because im german but why would people give the win to korea so easily? there seemed to be no ruling on the time thing and even tho it may be the wrong call to not end the fight after the first try of heideman @ 1 sec,they made a call. and the call was to let them try again and she scored a point.
what you gonna do? "yeah u scored,still it doesnt matter".
and while it doesnt technically matter at all,this only happened because of a stupid coin flip rule which heideman had to face twice in the tournament already.
dont get me wrong,its the shittiest thing ever for the korean fencer,but she didnt earn it any more (or less) than heideman.
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
It's difficult to have an accurate sense of time when in such an intense moment like that, she had adrenaline pumping through her veins and probably thought she did it.
Additionally to that the reason the Korean almost won was because she was given the advantage after a coin-flip. I don't think any fencer would give the win away in that situation.
But to be fair she would have fought differently if she had to score to win rather than just not get hit.
Yeah sure, but I mean it definitely didn't help the German fencer to feel like the Korean deserved to win.
noone read my post so im going to say it again. shin had to score to win, if the timer expired there was no way she could've won because she already had a yellow card against her. this is from the commentators.
On July 31 2012 04:40 th3_great wrote: noone read my post so im going to say it again. shin had to score to win, if the timer expired there was no way she could've won because she already had a yellow card against her. this is from the commentators.
if this is true its pretty clear anyways,but i never heard about this.
On July 31 2012 04:40 th3_great wrote: noone read my post so im going to say it again. shin had to score to win, if the timer expired there was no way she could've won because she already had a yellow card against her. this is from the commentators.
She got a yellow card after the game was done because she wouldn't leave. I did not catch any yellow before the game was over.
Edit: She couldn't leave cuz by fencing rule... if she leaves, it means she admits ref's decision.
On July 31 2012 04:40 th3_great wrote: noone read my post so im going to say it again. shin had to score to win, if the timer expired there was no way she could've won because she already had a yellow card against her. this is from the commentators.
nobody else seems to see it this way tho. Haven't heard that on german tv at all nor the german trainer/officials mentioned it at all
On July 31 2012 04:40 th3_great wrote: noone read my post so im going to say it again. shin had to score to win, if the timer expired there was no way she could've won because she already had a yellow card against her. this is from the commentators.
She got a yellow card after the game was done because she wouldn't leave. I did not catch any yellow before the game was over.
Edit: She couldn't leave cuz by fencing rule... if she leaves, it means she admits ref's decision.
when she got the yellow card during the dispute that was supposedly the second yellow, which doeesnt really mean anything, as it was just to encourage her to leave. this is again from the commentators.
On July 31 2012 04:19 Ysellian wrote: I don´t understand why it was so difficult to revert the decision? Can anyone explain why?
Strictly speaking, Heidemann won by the rules. The timekeeping was shoddy and the refs didn't space their en gardes right, but her job is to fence when 'allez' is called, and she did.
Reverting that is pretty hard because she played within the rules, and thus there is no proper procedure for saying 'you were within the rules but we're taking your point away'.
On July 31 2012 04:19 Ysellian wrote: I don´t understand why it was so difficult to revert the decision? Can anyone explain why?
Strictly speaking, Heidemann by the rules. The timekeeping was shoddy and the refs didn't space their en gardes right, but her job is to fence when 'allez' is called, and she did.
Reverting that is pretty hard because she played within the rules, and thus there is no proper procedure for saying 'you were within the rules but we're taking your point away'.
Thanks for the clarification. So whatever the refs did it would never have corrected their mistake, but just add more mistakes.
On July 31 2012 04:36 Caryc wrote: it may be because im german but why would people give the win to korea so easily? there seemed to be no ruling on the time thing and even tho it may be the wrong call to not end the fight after the first try of heideman @ 1 sec,they made a call. and the call was to let them try again and she scored a point.
what you gonna do? "yeah u scored,still it doesnt matter".
and while it doesnt technically matter at all,this only happened because of a stupid coin flip rule which heideman had to face twice in the tournament already.
dont get me wrong,its the shittiest thing ever for the korean fencer,but she didnt earn it any more (or less) than heideman.
Well, the main problem is, that these last 3 engagements lasted longer than 1 second. If we assume, that the first engagement lasted about 0.6 sec and the second one aswell (maybe this last second was like 1.9 seconds since they didnt give us any further information...), there would be like 0.7 sec left for the last and third engagement. But the last engagement lasted 0.88 sec (they said it in the german tv, of course not arguing if the decision was wrong or right). Also they fucked up the timer in the second engagement and we have no information how they fixed it (i hope they didnt give another full second...). So it seems kinda in favour of the korean because the last hit was after the regular time and shouldnt be counted.
Can anyone explain why they make this coin flip in the sudden death? Seems completely inappropiate. I heard it is to prevent "never ending" battles when there is always a double hit, but why don't they simply make it who hits first wins?
Edit: Ok, now they explained the whole semifinal debacle again. Apparantely they screwed up timing and the clock ran to 0 accidentally, so they had to reset the clock to 1 second before the last hit then happened, since this is the smallest time possible. The last hit then was within 1 second and thus had to be counted.
Awful rules in the Olympics when a fencer who won in the proper amount of time loses the bout because the machine malfunctioned and gave extra time to the opponent. No other way around it. And bylaws that say the protesting side must pay money are absolutely absurd and need to go.
On July 31 2012 05:03 Finrod1 wrote: what a funny and useless sport :D seems like the attacker is always in a disadvantage.
This is false.
Shemyakina is a terrific counterattacker, and a lot of her fencing is built around using her longer reach (due to the french grip of her epee) to pick off attackers. (My impression from watching today)
On July 31 2012 05:09 Fatta wrote: Can anyone explain why they make this coin flip in the sudden death? Seems completely inappropiate. I heard it is to prevent "never ending" battles when there is always a double hit, but why don't they simply make it who hits first wins?
There have been bouts where neither fencer wants to engage or be baited into attacking, so nothing happens for stupid amounts of time. Priority forces there to be some sort of engagement. I think the priority rule is terrible but it's difficult to replace it (though I'd prefer a sudden death period with no time limit personally).
Side note, I've fenced the Singaporean ref for the finals! (And been crushed) Great final bout at least, Shemyakina impressed me a lot during this. I wish her bout with Gherman was later in the tournament because it was one of the most excellent in this tournament.
On July 31 2012 05:03 Finrod1 wrote: what a funny and useless sport :D seems like the attacker is always in a disadvantage.
This is false.
Shemyakina is a terrific counterattacker, and a lot of her fencing is built around using her longer reach (due to the french grip of her epee) to pick off attackers.
On July 31 2012 05:09 Fatta wrote: Can anyone explain why they make this coin flip in the sudden death? Seems completely inappropiate. I heard it is to prevent "never ending" battles when there is always a double hit, but why don't they simply make it who hits first wins?
There have been bouts where neither fencer wants to engage or be baited into attacking, so nothing happens for stupid amounts of time. Priority forces there to be some sort of engagement. I think the priority rule is terrible but it's difficult to replace it (though I'd prefer a sudden death period with no time limit personally).
On July 31 2012 05:11 tree.hugger wrote: ... And bylaws that say the protesting side must pay money are absolutely absurd and need to go.
I think this rule is reasonable and also applied in other sports. From what I understand it is a deposit you get refunded if your protest is valid. It is there to prevent protesting just for the sake of protesting with no real reason for it.
On July 31 2012 05:03 Finrod1 wrote: what a funny and useless sport :D seems like the attacker is always in a disadvantage.
This is false.
Shemyakina is a terrific counterattacker, and a lot of her fencing is built around using her longer reach (due to the french grip of her epee) to pick off attackers.
On July 31 2012 05:09 Fatta wrote: Can anyone explain why they make this coin flip in the sudden death? Seems completely inappropiate. I heard it is to prevent "never ending" battles when there is always a double hit, but why don't they simply make it who hits first wins?
There have been bouts where neither fencer wants to engage or be baited into attacking, so nothing happens for stupid amounts of time. Priority forces there to be some sort of engagement. I think the priority rule is terrible but it's difficult to replace it (though I'd prefer a sudden death period with no time limit personally).
On July 31 2012 05:33 Pika Chu wrote: Can someone explain exactly what happened?
From what i understood she should've won as the german girl made her point after time expired.
The machine doesn't count fractions of a section, and each of Heidemann's attacks took less than a second. Therefore, she got three attacks off with one second remaining. After her third point, the clock was restarted and hit 0:00 (it had to be after the point, because you cannot trigger the scoring light otherwise). As a result, the referee ordered the clock reset to 0:01 (because, again, there are no fractions of a second on the machine). Heidemann scores, and according to the rules, wins legitimately.
The issue is that those 4 attacks in no way took 1 second or less, but the timekeeping system can't account for that. Therefore, there is no rule in place to take a point away from her - but still a substantial case to make that Shin should have won.
There's other issues too, like that Heidemann's en garde distance was way, way too close (meant to be tips of the blades touching with arms extended, blades were nearly crossed with her in a crouch instead), but the referee didn't do anything about it and allowed the time to be started.
So happy for Shemyakina. A great victory from a great sportswoman. She has done some interviews already for the national television and I can tell she's a great person on the top of that.
The ukranian is not to blame, she did her job and won. Not fair and square though, had the judges kept the time right the korean would've won, more than 1 sec passes between the ale and the contact. 3 days and already so many mistakes and questionable calls.
Been fencing for 3 years now; started with epee, and been branching off into foil for the past year. I'm very glad there's a thread for this. Thanks so much for a well-made thread with links and info. and all! :-D Gonna have to check those VODs....
On July 31 2012 04:13 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: This has been the worst Olympic ever. Korea already robbed of like 3 very possible potential gold medals and series of other terrible calls. They have to respect the ref's decision? MY ASS.
KBS (korean broadcasting) summed up the entire sequence, and the hit came 1.17 seconds after it began at 1 second. Apparently the committee has said that wrong call has been made, but not reverting the decision... I'm just waiting to hear the good news but unlikely..
This is common for Olympic rulings is it not? It seems like they frequently will say the wrong decision was made but not overturn it in order to not undermine the judges.
this is true, olympics every year is shite, but it's been hitting the korean team particular hard this yr so its especially tougher to deal with it as korean team supporter (myself included). and we're only 3 days in sheesh.
i quite liked watching the fencing, though the system for overtime blows my mind. Ruins the sport imo, i know im not very informed about it, but that a player can win off a coin flip makes the whole sport silly
On July 31 2012 12:15 L3g3nd_ wrote: i quite liked watching the fencing, though the system for overtime blows my mind. Ruins the sport imo, i know im not very informed about it, but that a player can win off a coin flip makes the whole sport silly
On July 31 2012 05:33 Pika Chu wrote: Can someone explain exactly what happened?
From what i understood she should've won as the german girl made her point after time expired.
The machine doesn't count fractions of a section, and each of Heidemann's attacks took less than a second. Therefore, she got three attacks off with one second remaining. After her third point, the clock was restarted and hit 0:00 (it had to be after the point, because you cannot trigger the scoring light otherwise). As a result, the referee ordered the clock reset to 0:01 (because, again, there are no fractions of a second on the machine). Heidemann scores, and according to the rules, wins legitimately.
The issue is that those 4 attacks in no way took 1 second or less, but the timekeeping system can't account for that. Therefore, there is no rule in place to take a point away from her - but still a substantial case to make that Shin should have won.
There's other issues too, like that Heidemann's en garde distance was way, way too close (meant to be tips of the blades touching with arms extended, blades were nearly crossed with her in a crouch instead), but the referee didn't do anything about it and allowed the time to be started.
To also expand on this, if you watched the video you obviously saw the Korean coach explode and demand an overturn of the results, requesting the judging staff watch the official video. Shin A-Lam (the Korean fencer), was forced to stay in the Piste (the field of play) and then refused to leave it, because the judging staff declared that she would automatically forfeit if she, at any time, left the Piste. A big part of the controversy directly followed, where the judging staff required the Korean team to pay a cash deposit on the spot in order to secure an appeal, else it would be denied. After the appeal was denied (due to the lack of a cash deposit), an official then attempted to escort Shin A-Lam off the Piste. However, keep in mind that if Shin A-Lam left the Piste, then she would automatically forfeit the match and lose any grounds for an appeal. Then another official came over and removed her from the Piste, despite the demands for an appeal, thus forcing the Korean team to symbolically accept the decision.
Also I would like to note that after being informed that the Korean team could not make a cash deposit, one of the crew heads said "It's not our problem."
So not only was the infinite 1 second controversial, but the demand for a cash deposit for an appeal as well.
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
On July 31 2012 12:31 Jugan wrote: So not only was the infinite 1 second controversial, but the demand for a cash deposit for an appeal as well.
I'm under the impression this is standard procedure to prevent frivolous use of the appeal system. It's constant across events afaik.
Shin was asked to leave after the decision was made. At that point, further protest is delaying the tournament. Yes, it's unfortunate, but you can't halt mid-way through endlessly, especially after an appeal is completed.
On July 31 2012 12:32 OpTicalRH wrote: BBC, are you fucking kidding me?
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
This olympics is fucking disgusting for Koreans.
Thats bit disgusting to be fucking honest. Dunno, is this tweeter trying to be funny or something? I remember a tweet where BBC kept informing about the protest and one of the tweets said something like, "i guess the crowd likes protests.." When crowd was occasionally cheering for the Korean fencer.
I disagree that priority is a coinflip. Anyone who's fenced for a priority bout know's that the winner of the outcome is hardly 'random'.
Priority is given before the 1 minute bout if fenced so that the fencers don't drag out the match forever. It doesn't matter if your opponent is given priority or not, because in the 1 minute you are fencing, both fencers have equal chances of scoring a point.
There is no 'defender's advantage' in Epee, the reason why you were seeing Shin and the Gold medalist fence with a lot of counter attacks is due in part to the nature of their fencing style, when you post with a French grip most of the time you have to fence a counter attack-ish style because you lose a lot of strength and precision in your blade work. At the highest level of fencing, there is no 'mental' advantage to priority as well, you can never count on bleeding one minute, it was entirely Britta's fault that she let the match go to the last 3 seconds and was force to fleche every second. It didn't matter did it? She won anyway.
On July 31 2012 12:32 OpTicalRH wrote: BBC, are you fucking kidding me?
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
Look at this moron all excited and worked up.. I am just glad that there are thousands, (I've never seen more support on yahoo articles, like 5000 thumbs up for each comment) of people supporting Shin and agreeing how ridiculous it was, both the decision, and German fencer's reaction.
On July 31 2012 04:20 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: The german fencer should have just given up the bout... What was wrong with her anyway jumping up and down and handshaking a person who is obviously completely broken by a retarded call?
Edit: Mafe, of course... I am just talking about as in calls made. I am sure such things will never happen again!
It's difficult to have an accurate sense of time when in such an intense moment like that, she had adrenaline pumping through her veins and probably thought she did it.
Additionally to that the reason the Korean almost won was because she was given the advantage after a coin-flip. I don't think any fencer would give the win away in that situation.
But to be fair she would have fought differently if she had to score to win rather than just not get hit.
Yeah sure, but I mean it definitely didn't help the German fencer to feel like the Korean deserved to win.
The Korean wasn't fencing just to 'not get hit' she was fencing to get the point as well. Getting points from counter attacks is just as legitimate as those from attacks.
On July 31 2012 12:32 OpTicalRH wrote: BBC, are you fucking kidding me?
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
This olympics is fucking disgusting for Koreans.
did that twitter post really happen? checking it now and it seems its gone. real shame.. Zzz
On July 31 2012 12:32 OpTicalRH wrote: BBC, are you fucking kidding me?
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
This olympics is fucking disgusting for Koreans.
did that twitter post really happen? checking it now and it seems its gone. real shame.. Zzz
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
This olympics is fucking disgusting for Koreans.
did that twitter post really happen? checking it now and it seems its gone. real shame.. Zzz
On July 31 2012 12:32 OpTicalRH wrote: BBC, are you fucking kidding me?
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
This olympics is fucking disgusting for Koreans.
did that twitter post really happen? checking it now and it seems its gone. real shame.. Zzz
It's not the first time BBC deletes tweets.
I know.. BBC getting to me now.. cannot stand some of the reporters. I wish they would be more sincere in congratulating the winner from other countries before rambling on about GB's chances yada yada yada. One that springs to my mind is the reporter who interviewed the A.Vino guy right after he won the road race.
On July 31 2012 12:32 OpTicalRH wrote: BBC, are you fucking kidding me?
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
This olympics is fucking disgusting for Koreans.
did that twitter post really happen? checking it now and it seems its gone. real shame.. Zzz
Yeah I guess it was deleted. the person responsible for the twitter seems to be a total idiot. Apparently the rules require you to stay inside till the conflict is resolved. On twitter he made it look like the player was creating problems by not leaving.
What happened(from a news article I read): Time was up, sk fencer was ahead, but the ding ding didnt go off because the ringer was stuck, and hence it rang a second later..but within that second the german fencer struck a blow that put her ahead,while technically the game was over.
On July 31 2012 13:26 lisward wrote: I disagree that priority is a coinflip. Anyone who's fenced for a priority bout know's that the winner of the outcome is hardly 'random'.
Priority is given before the 1 minute bout if fenced so that the fencers don't drag out the match forever. It doesn't matter if your opponent is given priority or not, because in the 1 minute you are fencing, both fencers have equal chances of scoring a point.
There is no 'defender's advantage' in Epee, the reason why you were seeing Shin and the Gold medalist fence with a lot of counter attacks is due in part to the nature of their fencing style, when you post with a French grip most of the time you have to fence a counter attack-ish style because you lose a lot of strength and precision in your blade work. At the highest level of fencing, there is no 'mental' advantage to priority as well, you can never count on bleeding one minute, it was entirely Britta's fault that she let the match go to the last 3 seconds and was force to fleche every second. It didn't matter did it? She won anyway.
This so much.
I think the problem right now with all the media attention is the fact that fencing's rules are complicated to begin with and the sport itself isn't "mainstream" at all. I think a lot of the media aren't even thinking properly about the situation.
I watched the priority fight over and over for a good half hour. IMO, although the decision to make the run an extra second is questionable, I don't find it ridiculous that one second "went forever." I've been in situations many times where I wasn't able to get past a certain time mark because of how quickly I was getting hit as soon as the clock started. I'm surprised a lot of people were surprised at the fact that the 1 second was lasting forever. I thought it was one of the most normal things in the world.
The bigger issue was the fact that the German was WAAAAAYYY to close during the last few seconds of the bout during En garde. And the fact that Shin didn't keep protesting the fact that the distance was way to close.
Priority isn't a coinflip. A good fencer will just fence regardless of priority. There are no defender's advantages. Can't be. Everything is equal, bar the priority. And really, that's just a mentality thing. The better fencer will come out on top regardless.
On July 31 2012 12:32 OpTicalRH wrote: BBC, are you fucking kidding me?
Messing with Park Tae Hwan with ridiculous DSQ affecting his mentality and performance. Then Korean judoka Cho Joon Ho wins JUDO 3:0 decision of 3 judgement and Japan audiences jeer and high officer calls them JAPAN WON! Now with this fencing issues where 1 second is magically lengthened due to clock error followed up with disrespecting Shin on twitter.
This olympics is fucking disgusting for Koreans.
did that twitter post really happen? checking it now and it seems its gone. real shame.. Zzz
Yeah I guess it was deleted. the person responsible for the twitter seems to be a total idiot. Apparently the rules require you to stay inside till the conflict is resolved. On twitter he made it look like the player was creating problems by not leaving.
She was forced to stay inside the competition area while she waited for the official complain to go through, however she was not forced to stay on the track. I let you interpret her decision the way you want.
On July 31 2012 13:26 lisward wrote: I disagree that priority is a coinflip. Anyone who's fenced for a priority bout know's that the winner of the outcome is hardly 'random'.
Priority is given before the 1 minute bout if fenced so that the fencers don't drag out the match forever. It doesn't matter if your opponent is given priority or not, because in the 1 minute you are fencing, both fencers have equal chances of scoring a point.
There is no 'defender's advantage' in Epee, the reason why you were seeing Shin and the Gold medalist fence with a lot of counter attacks is due in part to the nature of their fencing style, when you post with a French grip most of the time you have to fence a counter attack-ish style because you lose a lot of strength and precision in your blade work. At the highest level of fencing, there is no 'mental' advantage to priority as well, you can never count on bleeding one minute, it was entirely Britta's fault that she let the match go to the last 3 seconds and was force to fleche every second. It didn't matter did it? She won anyway.
This so much.
I think the problem right now with all the media attention is the fact that fencing's rules are complicated to begin with and the sport itself isn't "mainstream" at all. I think a lot of the media aren't even thinking properly about the situation.
I watched the priority fight over and over for a good half hour. IMO, although the decision to make the run an extra second is questionable, I don't find it ridiculous that one second "went forever." I've been in situations many times where I wasn't able to get past a certain time mark because of how quickly I was getting hit as soon as the clock started. I'm surprised a lot of people were surprised at the fact that the 1 second was lasting forever. I thought it was one of the most normal things in the world.
The bigger issue was the fact that the German was WAAAAAYYY to close during the last few seconds of the bout during En garde. And the fact that Shin didn't keep protesting the fact that the distance was way to close.
Priority isn't a coinflip. A good fencer will just fence regardless of priority. There are no defender's advantages. Can't be. Everything is equal, bar the priority. And really, that's just a mentality thing. The better fencer will come out on top regardless.
I love how everyone is using the word coin flip like this is some screwed up Starcraft match up. Ask any professional fencer, no one complains about priority, it isn't a big deal, if the other guy get's priority, just win the fucking match.
Look at this moron all excited and worked up.. I am just glad that there are thousands, (I've never seen more support on yahoo articles, like 5000 thumbs up for each comment) of people supporting Shin and agreeing how ridiculous it was, both the decision, and German fencer's reaction.
whatever the fencer's reaction was, it's no where as dumb as your post.
its not a sword :D its a very special kind of weapon, maybe rapier would work for a translation.
Also, this advantage thing is no biggie. Just look how even people who dont have the advantage are quite happy to let the referee cut like 3 minutes from their time by being idle.
But it was 5:5, I mean the Korean was given an advantage with the coin flip, right? Why is it fair that the German girl loses if its a draw? Koreans have a long history of 'everyone is against us/us against the system/we lost because of a Japanese conspiracy' mentality when sports are concerned. Hearing comments like 'Europeans helping Europeans' is bull, seriously, anyone that lives on this continent will laugh at you. Officials who have been with fencing for most of their lives came to a decision after 30 minutes of consulting and yet people who haven't held a sword in their lives have all of the sudden become leet-haxor fencing masters who 'know injustice when they see it'. It seems as though everything is within the rules of fencing except for the fact that the German was starting way too close. This used to be a nice family thread with two pages
On July 31 2012 22:47 ahappystar wrote: But it was 5:5, I mean the Korean was given an advantage with the coin flip, right? Why is it fair that the German girl loses if its a draw? Koreans have a long history of 'everyone is against us/us against the system/we lost because of a Japanese conspiracy' mentality when sports are concerned. Hearing comments like 'Europeans helping Europeans' is bull, seriously, anyone that lives on this continent will laugh at you. Officials who have been with fencing for most of their lives came to a decision after 30 minutes of consulting and yet people who haven't held a sword in their lives have all of the sudden become leet-haxor fencing masters who 'know injustice when they see it'. It seems as though everything is within the rules of fencing except for the fact that the German was starting way too close. This used to be a nice family thread with two pages
Because you're not supposed to let it go to a draw, this isn't some gymnastics sport, this is a combat sport, where someone has to win. The priority rule is supposed to punish fencers who refuse to fence.
On July 31 2012 22:47 ahappystar wrote:Officials who have been with fencing for most of their lives came to a decision after 30 minutes of consulting and yet people who haven't held a sword in their lives have all of the sudden become leet-haxor fencing masters who 'know injustice when they see it'. This used to be a nice family thread with two pages
I was watching whole "30" minutes of "consulting" and the end was nowhere to be seen till some "boss" came and said basically - "Why should we care, it doesn't matter" and suddenly everything is decided.
The hate train against Heidemann is disgusting. She did nothing wrong, there is no reason to blame her for a decision of the referees. Timekeeping is not part of her job, and the Korean could have used the extra time just as well to score btw, but did not.
The hate train against Heidemann is disgusting. She did nothing wrong, there is no reason to blame her for a decision of the referees. Timekeeping is not part of her job, and the Korean could have used the extra time just as well to score btw, but did not.
Despite the emotional response from Shin and the spectators, Heidemann was adament the correct decision had been made.
"When there is one second left on the clock it could be one second or one second and 99 hundredths of a second," Heidemann said.
"Whenever there is a hit it always goes back to one second. Maybe they should think about how the times are recorded, maybe there should be half seconds.
"I have experienced this against myself before and I am happy with the decision that was made. The whole discussion was unnecessary."
When the clock is stopped, it resets to the full second. So with 1 second remaining, if there's a halt at even .2 seconds remaining, the clock is set to 1 second for the start of the next action. After the second attack halt was called, unfortunately time went on and it went down to 0, seeing as the only thing they could do was turn the clock back to 1 as that was the lowest time they could set it back to I don't see the problem. It doesn't matter what second it is it rounds off. Paying 55 euros so you can appeal is a bit weird but I guess that just stops people lodging complaints after every match
The hate train against Heidemann is disgusting. She did nothing wrong, there is no reason to blame her for a decision of the referees. Timekeeping is not part of her job, and the Korean could have used the extra time just as well to score btw, but did not.
Yes because she could've made up for the unfair decision ny the referees and be a sportsman yet she choose not to and will be remembered this olympics for tearing her opponent mentally to the ground.
On August 01 2012 06:19 tree.hugger wrote: Amazing foil final, but especially amazing; no Europeans in the top three. That's a super cool result.
Super cool ? SUPER COOL ? It's dramatic. A chinese winner wasn't too curious as their team is strong right now. But the french falled (including a match against Choi that I will watch soon) and then Italy decided to let go of their pride as well. If Men's Epee and Women's Sabre are without European as well, I'll cry.
On August 01 2012 03:58 TehPrime wrote: CHOIIII!!!!!!!! well done you kick-boxing parcours-style foil fencer!
It seems bad sportmanship is a norm in the korean team. All of his opponent were thrown down ...
PS : Since people are too serious around here, it's a joke though I didn't really like Choi's behavior and the results today.
Sad that Gomez, Chamley-Watson, and Massialas couldn't do better (US college fencers in my weapon), but excited for Soren Thompson tomorrow! Though I don't know him, he's an older alumni of my school so other people on the team knew him.
On August 01 2012 06:19 tree.hugger wrote: Amazing foil final, but especially amazing; no Europeans in the top three. That's a super cool result.
Super cool ? SUPER COOL ? It's dramatic. A chinese winner wasn't too curious as their team is strong right now. But the french falled (including a match against Choi that I will watch soon) and then Italy decided to let go of their pride as well. If Men's Epee and Women's Sabre are without European as well, I'll cry.
On July 31 2012 22:03 Copymizer wrote: If i was a german i would give it up since the timer got stuck which is obviously unfair. I would give it up to the korean in act of sportmanship. The germans medal will be foever tarnished.
Sure, everybody would, right?!
Easy thing to say if your sitting infront of your Computer at home.
On August 01 2012 06:19 tree.hugger wrote: Amazing foil final, but especially amazing; no Europeans in the top three. That's a super cool result.
Super cool ? SUPER COOL ? It's dramatic. A chinese winner wasn't too curious as their team is strong right now. But the french falled (including a match against Choi that I will watch soon) and then Italy decided to let go of their pride as well. If Men's Epee and Women's Sabre are without European as well, I'll cry.
Let the tears hit the floor. At least UKR, RUS, and NOR still have fencers in, but the major European contenders are out! Sorta excited to see how Kelsey does since lisward won't stop hyping him up to me and the USA hasn't had much presence in this event before.
On August 01 2012 23:25 Cubu wrote: question about the korean vs german semis: Why does the korean go through if they were to draw 5-5?
Randomly determined priority (announced at the start of the last 1min).
On August 02 2012 03:20 tree.hugger wrote: Unbelievable results this olympics. Egypt in foil? Norway and Venezuela in epee? Kelsey finally performing??
GO NORWAY GO USA
EDIT: oh my god and Kelsey loses to a foot touch with most of the minute gone and his priority. Ouch.
On August 02 2012 03:20 tree.hugger wrote: Unbelievable results this olympics. Egypt in foil? Norway and Venezuela in epee? Kelsey finally performing??
GO NORWAY GO USA
EDIT: oh my god and Kelsey loses to a foot touch with most of the minute gone and his priority. Ouch.
That was a dumbass way to lose a point..
Jung was even showing he was able to go for the foot repeatedly. Smart hit though, punishes Kelsey's... interesting footwork.
Let's see if Zagunis manages to hold the lead this time...
It's good to see people admit they are wrong. Seriously people need to be able to do that more often. It's okay to be wrong and make a mistake and admit to it.
On August 02 2012 04:45 TehPrime wrote: Korea got their women's fencing gold.. but the announcer said "people's republic of korea". Jesus christ, how stupid can you be.
LOL yeah but I love how nobody cared bc they were too happy
On August 02 2012 03:20 tree.hugger wrote: Unbelievable results this olympics. Egypt in foil? Norway and Venezuela in epee? Kelsey finally performing??
GO NORWAY GO USA
EDIT: oh my god and Kelsey loses to a foot touch with most of the minute gone and his priority. Ouch.
Ruben Limardo is 13th this year. Not really a surprise. But Piasecki ... WTF he is 47th this year; his best placing EVER was 12 ... As for Abouelkassem, he is 5th this year. Not really a surprise either.
Those results aren't magical except for Heidemann and Piasecki, all the rest are top 20 in the WC and even though not seeing the french isn't a surprise as our individual results aren't that good these last 4 years.
It's good to see people admit they are wrong. Seriously people need to be able to do that more often. It's okay to be wrong and make a mistake and admit to it.
Except the judges weren't wrong (aside from the position of the German during the last assaut). All these people white-knighting her as if she was the only one in the world to have suffer from apparent injustice ... it seriously makes me cringes. Nobody is making a fuss about the opponents the chinese faced due to matchfixing ... And nobody gave Vastine a medal last Olympics even though he was never hit during the last 12s ...
Still she isn't to blame, her coach should have told her to go back inside (she has to remain inside the competition area but not specifically on the track). This public expression of sadness isn't to my liking ...
haha i saw this match. choi was claiming that baldini got a point off by stabbing his butt, which should not count as a pt since it's not torso. so they were trying to reenact that point to see if there was something wrong with choi's suit in the butt area that would incorrectly give baldini a point.
On August 02 2012 03:20 tree.hugger wrote: Unbelievable results this olympics. Egypt in foil? Norway and Venezuela in epee? Kelsey finally performing??
GO NORWAY GO USA
EDIT: oh my god and Kelsey loses to a foot touch with most of the minute gone and his priority. Ouch.
Ruben Limardo is 13th this year. Not really a surprise. But Piasecki ... WTF he is 47th this year; his best placing EVER was 12 ... As for Abouelkassem, he is 5th this year. Not really a surprise either.
Those results aren't magical except for Heidemann and Piasecki, all the rest are top 20 in the WC and even though not seeing the french isn't a surprise as our individual results aren't that good these last 4 years.
It's good to see people admit they are wrong. Seriously people need to be able to do that more often. It's okay to be wrong and make a mistake and admit to it.
Except the judges weren't wrong (aside from the position of the German during the last assaut). All these people white-knighting her as if she was the only one in the world to have suffer from apparent injustice ... it seriously makes me cringes. Nobody is making a fuss about the opponents the chinese faced due to matchfixing ... And nobody gave Vastine a medal last Olympics even though he was never hit during the last 12s ...
Still she isn't to blame, her coach should have told her to go back inside (she has to remain inside the competition area but not specifically on the track). This public expression of sadness isn't to my liking ...
I know Abouelkassem is fantastic, and I know Limardo as well, but it's still fairly remarkable, and really exciting that countries outside of France, Italy, and occasionally Germany are doing so well. (Maybe not to you though!)
On August 02 2012 03:20 tree.hugger wrote: Unbelievable results this olympics. Egypt in foil? Norway and Venezuela in epee? Kelsey finally performing??
GO NORWAY GO USA
EDIT: oh my god and Kelsey loses to a foot touch with most of the minute gone and his priority. Ouch.
Ruben Limardo is 13th this year. Not really a surprise. But Piasecki ... WTF he is 47th this year; his best placing EVER was 12 ... As for Abouelkassem, he is 5th this year. Not really a surprise either.
Those results aren't magical except for Heidemann and Piasecki, all the rest are top 20 in the WC and even though not seeing the french isn't a surprise as our individual results aren't that good these last 4 years.
It's good to see people admit they are wrong. Seriously people need to be able to do that more often. It's okay to be wrong and make a mistake and admit to it.
Except the judges weren't wrong (aside from the position of the German during the last assaut). All these people white-knighting her as if she was the only one in the world to have suffer from apparent injustice ... it seriously makes me cringes. Nobody is making a fuss about the opponents the chinese faced due to matchfixing ... And nobody gave Vastine a medal last Olympics even though he was never hit during the last 12s ...
Still she isn't to blame, her coach should have told her to go back inside (she has to remain inside the competition area but not specifically on the track). This public expression of sadness isn't to my liking ...
I know Abouelkassem is fantastic, and I know Limardo as well, but it's still fairly remarkable, and really exciting that countries outside of France, Italy, and occasionally Germany are doing so well. (Maybe not to you though!)
I knew we were going to suck this year but what the real test will be the team's event where France is always strong. Should we not place at least one of our team in the top 3, it would be a disaster. Still it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing in the long term as it would caused a reaction in the sport institution. Judo had a bad Beijing Olympics (no title) and now we will probably have the last fight of the Décosse génération with the new one (Riner generation) all having a medal (Gneto, Legrand, Pavia + Tcheuméo and Riner next)
Shin Lam match was WRONG. She should have won and went on to the finals. And talking about sportsmanship, right thing to do would have been Heidemann at least acknowledging the mistake that has happened.
The special medal is not a gold, silver, or bronze. Shin rejected the medal because she wrongfully lost the bout for gold medal from ref's wrong decision. Otolia, if you believe that was the right call, go get your head checked please. You are the first and only person who thinks the decision is correct out of literally thousands of people who have seen this match. What makes you think that she stayed up on piste to appeal to public sympathy? Such thought of accusation is disgusting. Do you honestly think that an athlete who has practiced 4 years for this, won the gold bout, and taken away from her hand, is standing there to appeal to the public?
Anyways congrats to Kim Jiyeon for winning sabre final!
On August 02 2012 06:45 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Shin Lam match was WRONG. She should have won and went on to the finals. And talking about sportsmanship, right thing to do would have been Heidemann at least acknowledging the mistake that has happened.
The special medal is not a gold, silver, or bronze. Shin rejected the medal because she wrongfully lost the bout for gold medal from ref's wrong decision. Otolia, if you believe that was the right call, go get your head checked please. You are the first and only person who thinks the decision is correct out of literally thousands of people who have seen this match.
Anyways congrats to Kim Jiyeon for winning sabre final!
Hey keep it civil ! It may have been the wrong call but the judges didn't choose the winner based on the time left. She still could have touch her opponent during the last assaut but she didn't and that alone tramples the fact that the time wasn't stopped correctly. A superior competitor wins through and despite adversity not by whining and complaining. That's not the spirit of Olympism and that's not what I like to see in sport. In comparison, the decision in Judo was much more cruel for the Korean (even though the Judges ended up calling the superior athlete).
The last person who refused a medal was disqualified.
Edit : Oh the ninja edit ... Oh yes practice hard blah blah blah. I am not accusing her but her coach to have given her bad advice. And he knew that making her stay had a better chance of getting the public with her, that's called empathy. It's a normal human feeling (I had that too) and then I watch the game and saw the violence in the korean coach ... Suddenly I had less sympathy for her. And the irony is that she should have appealed the last point based on the position of the german. That was a human mistake and a human wrong call.
On August 02 2012 06:45 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Shin Lam match was WRONG. She should have won and went on to the finals. And talking about sportsmanship, right thing to do would have been Heidemann at least acknowledging the mistake that has happened.
The special medal is not a gold, silver, or bronze. Shin rejected the medal because she wrongfully lost the bout for gold medal from ref's wrong decision. Otolia, if you believe that was the right call, go get your head checked please. You are the first and only person who thinks the decision is correct out of literally thousands of people who have seen this match.
Anyways congrats to Kim Jiyeon for winning sabre final!
Hey keep it civil ! It may have been the wrong call but the judges didn't choose the winner based on the time left. She still could have touch her opponent during the last assaut but she didn't and that alone tramples the fact that the time wasn't stopped correctly. A superior competitor won through and despite adversity not by whining and complaining. That's not the spirit of Olympism and that's not what I like to see in sport. In comparison, the decision in Judo was much more cruel for the Korean (even though the Judges ended up calling the superior athlete).
The last person who refused a medal was disqualified.
Edit : Oh the ninja edit ... Oh yes practice hard blah blah blah. I am not accusing her but her coach to have given her bad advice. And he knew that making her stay had a better chance of getting the public with her, that's called empathy. It's a normal human feeling (I had that too) and then I watch the game and saw the violence in the korean coach ... Suddenly I had less sympathy for her. And the irony is that she should have appealed the last point based on the position of the german. That was a human mistake and a human wrong call.
Judges chose the winner after the match regulation time was over. If you shoot after the buzzer, the goal doesn't count. Heidemann landed her hit (a clean hit no doubt) during the match when the match should have been over already! So you are saying that it is Shin's fault of not touching her opponent during the last assault... wow. What about Olympic committee getting a better stop watch that will read to milliseconds? Didn't they ADMIT that their decision was wrong? Didn't they publicly announce that they will do a better job of time keeping from now? For f** sake, the time keeper was a 16 year old girl! Heidemann was NOT a superior competitor because she lost that fight, and went on with absolutely zero morality. Especially her comment on how you don't know if it is at 01:59 seconds or 009 seconds.. are you kidding me? When you talk about time, 01:00 to 01:59 is written as 2 seconds, and 0 to 00:59 is written as 1 second. The match had 1 second left and went on for extra 3 seconds. Why can't this be overturned? Respect ref's decision my ass!
In Judo case, Ebinuma admitted even after the fight that Korean judoka should have won. What makes you think that he is a superior athlete? You are entitled to your opinion but keep those to yourself, no one asked you who you think is the superior athlete. And being a superior athlete does not make wrong decisions right.
If my daughter was in olympics and lost to disgusting controversy, I would get pretty violent too. Getting public with her, empathy.. wa wa wa that is your opinion and that is what YOU think. I personally think the coach was trying to do his best to appeal in that situation. When gold bout is on the line, and they don't listen to you, and they make you PAY to appeal, I certainly do not think publicity was intended.
On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote: Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now.
For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake.
It's good to see people admit they are wrong. Seriously people need to be able to do that more often. It's okay to be wrong and make a mistake and admit to it.
On August 02 2012 04:45 TehPrime wrote: Korea got their women's fencing gold.. but the announcer said "people's republic of korea". Jesus christ, how stupid can you be.
LOL yeah but I love how nobody cared bc they were too happy
I'm not expert in this, but from what my friend was explaining to me they were doing it so she wouldn't try to sue them, which could award her up to $16.1million USD. I don't have any sources though, other than what my friend told me ^^
On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote: Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now.
For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake.
I'm not contesting the fact that the last second lasted longer than normal but the fact that the judges made a mistake in their decision. Let's see the reaction time of a professional swimmer Missy Franklin at the start of the Women's 200m Freestyle Relay : 0.79 s. That's the reaction time of a trained athlete whose all body is focused on starting at the right time. Now compare that to yours, and to the time keeper. I see a probable scenario where the timekeeper didn't start the clock because she didn't have a reaction time that fast. And as I said before, it was in Epee, all she had to do was touch too (as a double touch would count), but she didn't. She wasn't robbed because ultimately the outcome of the match wasn't decided by the judges.
Whose responsibility is it in this case ? Why can't the athletes be a little more responsible and ask why the time isn't kept correctly ? Should the judge say the bout is over when there is time in the clock ? What would have thought the German ? Are automatic clocks required ?
It's too easy to take the side of the crying one because of her emotions but a complex situation like the one that happened demands much more than knee-jerk reactions and overzealous statements. There is certainly things to improve and the FIE admitted that they could have done a better job.
And lastly I'd like all of you to think about the poor volunteer who must feel terrible after this because all of the world is hating on her. In rowing, I once saw a volunteer crying after the boat she was asked to keep straight didn't and they ended up disqualified. It wasn't the Olympics but she felt responsible even though she wasn't because it is the rowers responsibility to keep the boat straight and not the volunteer ...
The time shouldn't be started and ended manually. They should play a sound when they start the clock and stop the clock automatically when somebody hits the opponent. As long as somebody has to hit a button to start and stop the clock, there will be longer or shorter seconds all the time and the fencer have to fight till someone says it's over.
On August 01 2012 06:19 tree.hugger wrote: Amazing foil final, but especially amazing; no Europeans in the top three. That's a super cool result.
Super cool ? SUPER COOL ? It's dramatic. A chinese winner wasn't too curious as their team is strong right now. But the french falled (including a match against Choi that I will watch soon) and then Italy decided to let go of their pride as well. If Men's Epee and Women's Sabre are without European as well, I'll cry.
Let the tears hit the floor. At least UKR, RUS, and NOR still have fencers in, but the major European contenders are out! Sorta excited to see how Kelsey does since lisward won't stop hyping him up to me and the USA hasn't had much presence in this event before.
On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote: Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now.
For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake.
I'm not contesting the fact that the last second lasted longer than normal but the fact that the judges made a mistake in their decision. Let's see the reaction time of a professional swimmer Missy Franklin at the start of the Women's 200m Freestyle Relay : 0.79 s. That's the reaction time of a trained athlete whose all body is focused on starting at the right time. Now compare that to yours, and to the time keeper. I see a probable scenario where the timekeeper didn't start the clock because she didn't have a reaction time that fast. And as I said before, it was in Epee, all she had to do was touch too (as a double touch would count), but she didn't. She wasn't robbed because ultimately the outcome of the match wasn't decided by the judges.
Whose responsibility is it in this case ? Why can't the athletes be a little more responsible and ask why the time isn't kept correctly ? Should the judge say the bout is over when there is time in the clock ? What would have thought the German ? Are automatic clocks required ?
It's too easy to take the side of the crying one because of her emotions but a complex situation like the one that happened demands much more than knee-jerk reactions and overzealous statements. There is certainly things to improve and the FIE admitted that they could have done a better job.
And lastly I'd like all of you to think about the poor volunteer who must feel terrible after this because all of the world is hating on her. In rowing, I once saw a volunteer crying after the boat she was asked to keep straight didn't and they ended up disqualified. It wasn't the Olympics but she felt responsible even though she wasn't because it is the rowers responsibility to keep the boat straight and not the volunteer ...
You have no idea what you are talking about. It's extremely easy and it doesn't require any sort of light ing fast reflexes to press the button on time because you can clearly hear Allez, and you can sees the referee's hands drop when she says Allez. Also, they dont use amateur 'volunteers' when refereeing a top level fencing match. Do you even fence? This situation IS a knee jerk situation, because had the time keeping been done competently it could have gone to the other fencer. Ironic how you are saying people are 'white knighting' here.
On August 02 2012 07:25 Otolia wrote: Unless you want to enter a discussion about whether or not human judgement should be trusted over technology, we best keep this argument as it is now.
For all of the 4 points scored in that 1 second, the German was never properly in En Garde and in the correct distance. She also was starting in anticipation of the call, and there definitely something wrong with the 1 second, someone wasn't starting the time right, either it was a human error, or a technical error. Either way the FIE admitted they made a mistake.
I'm not contesting the fact that the last second lasted longer than normal but the fact that the judges made a mistake in their decision. Let's see the reaction time of a professional swimmer Missy Franklin at the start of the Women's 200m Freestyle Relay : 0.79 s. That's the reaction time of a trained athlete whose all body is focused on starting at the right time. Now compare that to yours, and to the time keeper. I see a probable scenario where the timekeeper didn't start the clock because she didn't have a reaction time that fast. And as I said before, it was in Epee, all she had to do was touch too (as a double touch would count), but she didn't. She wasn't robbed because ultimately the outcome of the match wasn't decided by the judges.
Whose responsibility is it in this case ? Why can't the athletes be a little more responsible and ask why the time isn't kept correctly ? Should the judge say the bout is over when there is time in the clock ? What would have thought the German ? Are automatic clocks required ?
It's too easy to take the side of the crying one because of her emotions but a complex situation like the one that happened demands much more than knee-jerk reactions and overzealous statements. There is certainly things to improve and the FIE admitted that they could have done a better job.
And lastly I'd like all of you to think about the poor volunteer who must feel terrible after this because all of the world is hating on her. In rowing, I once saw a volunteer crying after the boat she was asked to keep straight didn't and they ended up disqualified. It wasn't the Olympics but she felt responsible even though she wasn't because it is the rowers responsibility to keep the boat straight and not the volunteer ...
You have no idea what you are talking about. It's extremely easy and it doesn't require any sort of light ing fast reflexes to press the button on time because you can clearly hear Allez, and you can sees the referee's hands drop when she says Allez. Also, they dont use amateur 'volunteers' when refereeing a top level fencing match. Do you even fence? This situation IS a knee jerk situation, because had the time keeping been done competently it could have gone to the other fencer. Ironic how you are saying people are 'white knighting' here.
Reflexes are reflexes, pressing a button is no different than jumping towards someone, the difference between the beginning of a movement and its end She is most likely a fencer so she was more able than not to press accurately the button within the second but she didn't and unless you want to argue about a decision from the time keeper to purposefully fix the match, we can say she tried her best. And her best wasn't enough ... Did she forgot ? Did she tried but wasn't fast enough ? Was the machine responsible ? Some areas are still quite unclear and nobody here has proposed a single explanation as to how it happened. So much questions, and so little discussion. It's alright, I'll drop the case since people aren't keen on debating...
PS :knee-jerk : An automatic response to something. Applies to the choir of pity towards Lam and hate towards Heidemann.
In other news, I really appreciate the Women's Foil Event. The final was bad but the Italians were so good, it didn't matter anyway. I only catch a glimpse of the bronze match, Korean Fencing has improved too fast for us. :/
what are you talking about, the time is manually started and automatically stopped. But the problem was that the clock only had a resolution of 1 second, so they only had the choice to set it to zero and make the german automatically lose despite there being time left or set it to 1 again.
this was allready explained by officials, there is nothing unclear or shady going on.
On August 03 2012 06:45 LaNague wrote: what are you talking about, the time is manually started and automatically stopped. But the problem was that the clock only had a resolution of 1 second, so they only had the choice to set it to zero and make the german automatically lose despite there being time left or set it to 1 again.
this was allready explained by officials, there is nothing unclear or shady going on.
The clock has less than a 1s resolution (because of the purity of quartz piezo-electricity), the screen apparently doesn't. The decision is clear and motivated. But if the clock is stopped automatically, the clock cannot have hit 0:00. That's impossible for the reason I said before (considering the system is adequately designed).
It's puzzling to me.
Edit : The more I think about it, the more I am wondering how the system is designed. The only human mistake I can imagine happening aside from the time keeper not starting the time is a false knowledge of clock and as such the bad call to reset the clock. :/ Still it doesn't explain why the clock hit 0:00.
Edit 2 : Why did they reset the clock (I seem to be unable to read tonight) ... It didn't hit zero during the match but outside. There was no need for that just keep it running ...
was in the arena for the semi finals of the men's sabre, I've not watched much fencing but it was great fun and a good atmosphere. Saw Korea get into the final which was great, happy to see this result.
A commending showing from the Korean team. With the notable decline of Hungary and France, it left some places for upcoming nations to grab some medals (China and Japan) but I certainly didn't expect such a dominant showing from Korea.
Finally got to catch a fencing match between S. Korea and the U.S. I'm very impressed how SK shot out of nowhere in this sport, and that A.L Shin gets a chance for a gold after her individual event controversy.
Anyone else notice that aside from Park Taehwan, the Koreans are dominating at combat-related events? That's scary.
That's cause koreans are planning a mari- time invasion by swimming to your coast, tackling fools with judo chops and stab you while retreating with covering bow fire /shrug
I am pretty ignorant when it comes to fencing rules and whatnot. But, is it acceptable to nearly be jumping in on a person to get a touch? I'm only interested because my friend linked me to the Lam Shin bout. It seems besides messing up the time, that the German kept anticipating the call and was lunging before the referee waved her arms. There is a time discrepancy between the movement and the signaling.
Here's the video I watched, it may be biased or ignorant, but it seems pretty conclusive to me:
On August 05 2012 10:24 justinpal wrote: I am pretty ignorant when it comes to fencing rules and whatnot. But, is it acceptable to nearly be jumping in on a person to get a touch?
Until 'halt' is called, you can hit however you like. If you're being overly aggressive and jostling your opponent you can be carded, though. Charging in by crossing legs as per Britta (a fleche) is a completely legitimate and awesome way to score a point.
Starting before the allez, however, is not so legitimate.
So it happens. In the history of Fencing, France only once left with no medals. It was in Rome 1960. It also happens in 1904 and 1912 but no french fencers were present.
With an aging generation, it was bound to happen but that's a real surprise. Let's hope the upcoming changes in training and structures will prove fruitful in Rio.
In other news, GB almost beat Italy and Japan beat China ...
I'm enjoying watching the fencing, but I've got to say I've found the US and British masks with the flags on very obnoxious. I really don't like them at all; Fencing looks far cooler with both guys wearing the same IMO
EDIT: Holy crap, the French guy "Marcel Marcilloux" is the most French looking person I've ever seen
Another great gold for Italy, really happy for these guys, too bad they didn't get any medal in the individual competition. Japan proved to be good team though, gg.
Excellent showing by South Korea. I enjoy their fencing style and they have pretty awesome coaches. One certainly wouldn't have predicted their medal haul from their performance in previous World Championships, but I wouldn't say these results came out of the blue either.
A bit shocking that France didn't get medals this time around. They'll definitely need new blood in their team for the next Olympics.
And the pistes were fantastic. Overall a great tournament despite some judging shortcomings.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.olympic-games-2012-london.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/fencing.jpg)
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9 seconds.. are you kidding me? When you talk about time, 01:00 to 01:59 is written as 2 seconds, and 0 to 00:59 is written as 1 second. The match had 1 second left and went on for extra 3 seconds. Why can't this be overturned? Respect ref's decision my ass! ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/captureq0a1w.png)
