• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:43
CEST 04:43
KST 11:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers19Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
FlaSh: This Will Be My Final ASL【ASL S21 Ro.16】 BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1686 users

DAMWON wins the 2020 World Championship - Page 16

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 36 Next All
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-06 18:52:13
October 06 2020 18:51 GMT
#301
It’s considered Lucian favored because she needs Armguard and lost chapter to survive lane and often falls to far behind before that happens, unless Lucian goes tear build which is why I always say the tear build is so bad, you don’t spike during your advantage.

You don’t have to be Knight you just have to buy BF or cutlass first
Carrilord has arrived.
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
October 06 2020 20:08 GMT
#302
On October 07 2020 03:04 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2020 21:27 chipmonklord17 wrote:
That's why I hated when UoL drafted it tbh. Gadget had already played Ori bot before and they were against an MF with, who they could have dicked on hard with the Ori they already drafted if they flexed it bot. But instead they went Senna and got smashed.

Also shouldnt Rekkles be going lethality Senna here? Whose armor is he shredding?


There is no way Ori (the lowest base armor champ in the game, below kassadin with the ball unattached) dicks a lane bully adc

Furthermore uol vs fly was literally draft kingdom in favor of uol, it’s just PoE 1v9’d


I disagree about Ori vs MF, she's super immobile and would be susceptible to Ori damage on that fact alone. But I do agree PoE hard 1v9ed which is why I would have liked a different pick for Nomanz. Like they finally brought out their weird shit against top, but if they brought it out vs FQ or even DRX they could have had a chance
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-06 20:19:29
October 06 2020 20:19 GMT
#303
Ori has no way to deal with make it rain, MF can chunk her for walking within 700 range
Carrilord has arrived.
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
October 06 2020 20:26 GMT
#304
They already flexed Ori bot into Cait of all things, if stepping into range of Cait was possible MF should be possible too. Although the difference between the V3 adc and Turtle is probably high
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium5112 Posts
October 06 2020 20:26 GMT
#305
You could say that about any champ she lanes against.
Taxes are for Terrans
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
October 06 2020 20:30 GMT
#306
MF is under picked she’s basically buffed to the same strength as she was in spring, so yes I would say that about any champ she lanes against
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
October 06 2020 23:58 GMT
#307
On October 06 2020 22:56 AzAlexZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2020 22:46 DarkCore wrote:
He's not good at the champ, and TSM doesn't feel comfortable playing proactively. Also that Renekton blew him up in like 1 second in the dragon pit.

LGD really needed to win this game, now we have a 3 way tie end of the first round.

Would the game have been much different if Bjerg picked Azir or Syndra (or even a weird pick like Sylas or Zoe) though?

The purpose of the LeBlanc was to pair with the Shen. LB does her splitpushy stuff and as long as Stand United is up the other team always has to send 2 people to deal with her.
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-07 01:32:09
October 07 2020 01:30 GMT
#308
On October 07 2020 08:58 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2020 22:56 AzAlexZ wrote:
On October 06 2020 22:46 DarkCore wrote:
He's not good at the champ, and TSM doesn't feel comfortable playing proactively. Also that Renekton blew him up in like 1 second in the dragon pit.

LGD really needed to win this game, now we have a 3 way tie end of the first round.

Would the game have been much different if Bjerg picked Azir or Syndra (or even a weird pick like Sylas or Zoe) though?

The purpose of the LeBlanc was to pair with the Shen. LB does her splitpushy stuff and as long as Stand United is up the other team always has to send 2 people to deal with her.

but you could do that with other champs too.
Sylas and Azir are both better than Leblanc there and they can both split push.
If the goal was split push prowess then even Ekko and Fizz can also get the split push done.
Faker is the GOAT!
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
October 07 2020 02:55 GMT
#309
On October 07 2020 10:30 AzAlexZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2020 08:58 Gahlo wrote:
On October 06 2020 22:56 AzAlexZ wrote:
On October 06 2020 22:46 DarkCore wrote:
He's not good at the champ, and TSM doesn't feel comfortable playing proactively. Also that Renekton blew him up in like 1 second in the dragon pit.

LGD really needed to win this game, now we have a 3 way tie end of the first round.

Would the game have been much different if Bjerg picked Azir or Syndra (or even a weird pick like Sylas or Zoe) though?

The purpose of the LeBlanc was to pair with the Shen. LB does her splitpushy stuff and as long as Stand United is up the other team always has to send 2 people to deal with her.

but you could do that with other champs too.
Sylas and Azir are both better than Leblanc there and they can both split push.
If the goal was split push prowess then even Ekko and Fizz can also get the split push done.

Over the course of the year, Bjergsen is 1-1 on Sylas, 2-7 on Azir, 0-1 on Ekko, and he's never played Fizz. They're clearly champs either TSM doesn't want to play or, in the case of Azir, champs that haven't worked with the team.

Bjergsen is usually much better on LB than he was today.
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
October 07 2020 08:19 GMT
#310
DoinB actually gave some really interesting commentary on the LB. He said that LB is out of meta for a reason and thinks TSM just has a poor read on the meta. Basically, LB was picked to counter Ori, but LB can't oppress Ori anymore due to the jungle meta changing. Before, Ori needed to be fearful in lane due to a Lee Sin or a Reksai being in the jungle, and the jungle+mid could just come in and try to catch Ori even in lane. With Graves, though, it's very tough to catch Ori because Graves ganking power is so low, meaning it's harder for LB to get an advantage.

He also said TSM that just seems to be like a team who picks whatever they want to play whenever, without really thinking about the needs of the team comp. I pretty much agree, and think their P/Bs have just been incoherent throughout. They seem to tunnel too much on their recent champions. For example, I think vs the GenG team, given a twitch ban, Ori + Senna or Azir + Senna would've made sense and would've rounded out their comp a lot more than... Zilean + Senna.
darkness overpowering
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
October 07 2020 09:43 GMT
#311
Zilean Senna is crazy low damage for the first 20 minutes of the game, and then you're so far behind you don't actually get to scale. So it's no surprise they kind of lost every team fight with it, Rakan engages and then ???. Match history shows Ruler did more damage than the 3 TSM carries combined, 4 times the damage of Senna. Also DL did 0 damage to turrets that entire game and 200 damage to objectives (dragon, herald etc), almost surreal. Game was a stomp, but those numbers really drive home how lopsided it was, and imo more about draft than player skill.

Bjerg looked really bad on LB, everything looked so forced because he knew his team was losing hard and he needed to snowball. Post above got me interested in Bjerg's winrate, it looks like he's only had good success on TF, Syndra, Zilean and Zoe. Everyone has banned TF vs TSM so far, Syndra has been banned and picked by TSM, Zilean is troll pick, and Zoe was banned once by TSM themselves. His comfort champ pool is surprisingly easy to deal with, he hasn't had particular success with single game picks.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3756 Posts
October 07 2020 10:53 GMT
#312
On October 07 2020 18:43 DarkCore wrote:
Bjerg looked really bad on LB, everything looked so forced because he knew his team was losing hard and he needed to snowball. Post above got me interested in Bjerg's winrate, it looks like he's only had good success on TF, Syndra, Zilean and Zoe. Everyone has banned TF vs TSM so far, Syndra has been banned and picked by TSM, Zilean is troll pick, and Zoe was banned once by TSM themselves. His comfort champ pool is surprisingly easy to deal with, he hasn't had particular success with single game picks.

TBF if whole team is underperforming, it's hard to see him shining and Bjergsen is not the player that can carry whole team on his back like Stixxay did few years back during MSI. On international stage they are very fragile and apparently Bjergsen is not it any more durable.
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium5112 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-07 13:02:43
October 07 2020 13:00 GMT
#313
They're not underperforming. They're playing exactly like they have always been. Dillydallying in the midgame will just get you completely destroyed. Most of TSM wins in LCS is because of a miracle teamfight win. They have no sense of macro. It's extremely frustrating to watch. But I guess you deserve to win if you can hold off another team that can't macro for shit and get strong enough to possibly win a fight, right?

TL looked markedly proactive in the games they won. When they lost they looked abysmally passive.
Taxes are for Terrans
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
October 07 2020 13:24 GMT
#314
Think he meant underperforming more in the context that they're getting blasted by every opposing lineup. So Bjerg has to step up, because he seems to be the only player on his team who can hold a candle to the competition (not really though, the mid laners in his group are pretty tame, imagine if he had to play vs Caps/Knight/Yagao/Chovy/Showmaker).

TL looked proactive vs play in teams, that's not really a good indicator. G2 botched the level 1 because mad disrespect, still tried to dictate the game, and were run over because they had neither a gold lead, tempo lead and poor scaling.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium5112 Posts
October 07 2020 14:31 GMT
#315
I know, but at least Broxah got in the face of people. If you play Lee Sin and are invisible for the entirety of the game, there must be something going on. He feels enabled on Graves though, I like him on the champ.

As for TSM, Bjergsen has never, ever showed up for international competition. It's partly because of his inactivity they're losing I think. He reminds me of Froggen, where everyone always said he was a beast, but then almost never pops off. Is it a team thing, or is just an extremely riskaverse thing in high stakes situations? I can't really tell, but as a spectator it doesn't really come off as a positive performance, no matter how much cs you're able to be ahead of your opponent.
Taxes are for Terrans
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-07 23:34:20
October 07 2020 23:16 GMT
#316
TSM also infuriatingly don't invest in him at all. Bjergsen has the lowest counter pick % in the entire world.

I'm incredibly frustrated with TSM, have been all year, and it isn't even because of the in game product(NA teams are going to be bad, period, time to move on) but because the front office has 0 fucking clue what they're doing and Regi isn't making any changes.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-08 08:39:53
October 08 2020 08:36 GMT
#317
I can kinda see what TL was going for with their comp, but it kinda hinged on not getting blasted in bot lane.

Top lulu could be 5/0 out of lane and I still don't think they would win the game if tactical is that far behind.

Broxah and Jensen were invisible as well.

Biggest issue was just the lack of proactivity on TL's part(specifically jungle and mid). Just lost the game without ever trying to make plays.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
October 08 2020 08:50 GMT
#318
That sounds like normal NA mentality, fall behind -> play passively -> lose.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
AdsMoFro
Profile Joined January 2015
Japan4761 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-08 09:42:49
October 08 2020 09:41 GMT
#319
On October 07 2020 18:43 DarkCore wrote:
Zilean Senna is crazy low damage for the first 20 minutes of the game, and then you're so far behind you don't actually get to scale. So it's no surprise they kind of lost every team fight with it, Rakan engages and then ???. Match history shows Ruler did more damage than the 3 TSM carries combined, 4 times the damage of Senna. Also DL did 0 damage to turrets that entire game and 200 damage to objectives (dragon, herald etc), almost surreal. Game was a stomp, but those numbers really drive home how lopsided it was, and imo more about draft than player skill.

Bjerg looked really bad on LB, everything looked so forced because he knew his team was losing hard and he needed to snowball. Post above got me interested in Bjerg's winrate, it looks like he's only had good success on TF, Syndra, Zilean and Zoe. Everyone has banned TF vs TSM so far, Syndra has been banned and picked by TSM, Zilean is troll pick, and Zoe was banned once by TSM themselves. His comfort champ pool is surprisingly easy to deal with, he hasn't had particular success with single game picks.


Funnily enough, Syndra was open in the LB game for Bjerg vs LGD. LGD and TSM have VERY similar playstyles and for some reason, TSM must've thought that LGD do it better than TSM so they wanted early game snowball of LB?
Que Sera Sera
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
October 08 2020 10:39 GMT
#320
That first match loss vs Machi seems to really be screwing TL, they would've been 2-2 if not for that game and they could STILL end up first due to their first win vs G2 and also if they win vs Suning and Machi
Faker is the GOAT!
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 36 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
StarCraft Evolution League #20
CranKy Ducklings113
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 733
RuFF_SC2 179
ProTech124
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 365
firebathero 193
League of Legends
Doublelift4120
JimRising 595
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1150
Other Games
summit1g9348
WinterStarcraft308
C9.Mang0227
ViBE66
amsayoshi24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1229
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 15
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 33
• davetesta23
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki17
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
8h 17m
Classic vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Percival
herO vs Clem
ByuN vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
12h 17m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12h 17m
BSL
16h 17m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 7h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 8h
Ladder Legends
1d 12h
BSL
1d 16h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Leta vs YSC
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Escore
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.