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On May 08 2015 13:47 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 13:44 IshinShishi wrote:
bjerg blew Faker's summs because Faker lost xp chasing Dyrus, if he was 6 too Bjerg would've probably been a corpse. the fact is, bjerg blew faker's summs, but was still absent on the map while faker was all over the map. The fact that bjerg apologist are hanging onto the 20 cs advantage as if it meant anything is proof of the sad state of TSM fans.
Um, yeah, I'm a C9 apologist who made a post with facts like Santorin shitting the bed by being in Blue Side jungle when Faker got his first kill, and TSM 3v2 fail diving an Alistar when Faker + BENGI first killed Bjergsen. Would you mind responding to my post with what game you actually watched? When did Faker apply so much more pressure than Bjergsen before TSM just lost?
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On May 08 2015 13:47 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 13:44 IshinShishi wrote:
bjerg blew Faker's summs because Faker lost xp chasing Dyrus, if he was 6 too Bjerg would've probably been a corpse. the fact is, bjerg blew faker's summs, but was still absent on the map while faker was all over the map. The fact that bjerg apologist are hanging onto the 20 cs advantage as if it meant anything is proof of the sad state of TSM fans.
It doesn't take an amazing player to collapse on a skirmish in your team's side of the jungle. Faker literally just put one e into lustboy to finish him off since TSM had already lost the skirmish before he joined in. There was no chance for bjerg to ever follow up his team on these aggressive jungle invades.
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On May 08 2015 13:49 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 13:43 ghrur wrote:On May 08 2015 13:35 wei2coolman wrote:On May 08 2015 13:34 ghrur wrote:On May 08 2015 13:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 08 2015 13:30 Caiada wrote:On May 08 2015 13:29 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Bjergsen isn't "hurting himself" by playing Cho and Ziggs, he's literally toos cared to play playmaking champs cause he'd get exposed even harder, at least with Cho/Ziggs he can KS/pussy and farm from afar and avoid looking like the fraud he is. Yeah, but I prefer to do actual analysis, not just go crazy with preconceived notions. In both losses Bjergsen was completely nonexistent and only salvaged some KDA after the game was over already. Santorin is a problem but Bjergsen did not play well at all. Bjergsen actually did fine in lane. He was up like 20 cs at one point, blowing Faker's ghost + flash once and forcing Faker out of lane soon after. He actually had pressure mid, but the rest of his got destroyed, especially Santorin. Bjergsen lost pressure after Bengi ganked mid, which happens when your jungler is non-existant. yeah, 20 cs, when faker was all over the jungle grabbing kills. lol. 20 cs doesn't mean shit if yo udon't leave midlane. Wtf are you talking about? Faker's first kill in the jungle was because Santorin was in Blue side jungle vs 3 people from SKT. What can Bjergsen do about that? Run in to die? Right after Santorin died, TSM opts into a 3v4 bot while Bjergsen pushes Faker out of lane and forces Faker to recall and Bjergsen gets mid turret to 1/2 health, kills like 1.5-2 waves against turret, and gains a 20-CS lead. After that, Bengi ganks Bjergsen while his team is fail-diving 3v2 bot, Bengi gets a kill on Bjergsen, and Faker snowballs after that. It was 6-2 by the time Faker actually killed Bjergsen in mid with the help of Bengi. Bjergsen held his own just fine. His team was just too heavy. Bjergsen played fine in lane. But it doesn't even take a Faker fan to observe that Faker got behind in lane in the first place because he was moving to intercept Dyrus. I specifically remember posting a post saying 'hey, isn't Faker ahead? unless my eyes are wrong...' when he was about 10 cs ahead of Bjergsen and only had about 5 additional minions on his side for Bjergsen to farm. It was around that time that Faker started roaming. Bjergsen got ahead due to that and managed to get a level advantage at 6 which he - to his credit - successfully used to bully Faker after Faker tried to get back in lane. I'm pretty sure that was a mistake from Faker even though Bjergsen got his advantage in the first place from Dyrus's tactical feed. The problem is what occurred after that. Faker roamed successfully several times. Bjergsen never roamed. He had zero impact on the game except for pushing down mid turret while Faker got up to a 6-1 lead against his team. Having no impact on a mid laner at this level is not acceptable.
You're right that Bjergsen got a lead because Faker went to intercept Dyrus, but he played it well to bully out Faker and take tower damage for that.
Faker roamed successfully after he and Bengi killed Bjergsen in lane, and then TSM tower-dove bot with Bang surviving. After that, there was no hope anyway. Faker's first roam was into his own jungle against Santorin, which Bjergsen couldn't have helped with anyway. Santorin was dead at that point as well.
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As much as I think Faker >>> Bjergsen based on their careers, I also think even Faker couldn't have done shit for TSM had their positions been reversed. Let's face it individual comparisons based on this one game are pointless when SKT destroyed TSM as a team.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the argument was bjergsen outplayed faker in lane and only lost because other guys fed. that was not true.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Wake up, check results. See AHQ > Fnatic, yay.
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So what if Bjergsen managed to do good in lane? They got destroyed anyway... Jesus! You sound like the silver soloq guys "Waaah I won lane but my team fed and I lost Waaah elo hell"
I must say, TSM need to get rid of Dyrus and Santorin (but mainly, Dyrus if they want to be more than just a team that wins NALCS)
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All of them played badly, I don't think Dyrus played any worse than Turtle/Lustboy, they all shit the bed, well, santorin pretty much had a diarrhea.
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Meh, Bjerg took the easy way out with the ziggs pick but he did fine that game. Still though, no argument can be made that Bjerg is on the same lvl as Faker whatsoever.
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On May 08 2015 13:57 oneofthem wrote:
the argument was bjergsen outplayed faker in lane and only lost because other guys fed. that was not true.
It's difficult to say from this game whether Bjergsen is capable of outplaying Faker in lane because in the end, outside forces intervened, which is what occurs in TEAM GAMES. Bjergsen DID, to his credit, punish a mistake out of Faker when he was already ahead due to Faker's roam. That's an out play. But at the same time, Faker was winning in cs before his roam. That's also an outplay. I say they were even in lane.
It's what occurred afterward that shows Bjergsen's bad side - his passivity when not on an assassin. He started doing this in NA LCS too towards the end of the split. A lot of the times you'd see him get an advantage in lane strictly because he simply doesn't roam while his lane opponent does. That works when the rest of TSM is able to hold up under the pressure because they're ahead of other NA LCS teams and play 4v5. It doesn't when it's an international event and his team gets rekt.
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On May 08 2015 13:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 13:47 wei2coolman wrote:On May 08 2015 13:44 IshinShishi wrote:
bjerg blew Faker's summs because Faker lost xp chasing Dyrus, if he was 6 too Bjerg would've probably been a corpse. the fact is, bjerg blew faker's summs, but was still absent on the map while faker was all over the map. The fact that bjerg apologist are hanging onto the 20 cs advantage as if it meant anything is proof of the sad state of TSM fans. It doesn't take an amazing player to collapse on a skirmish in your team's side of the jungle. Faker literally just put one e into lustboy to finish him off since TSM had already lost the skirmish before he joined in. There was no chance for bjerg to ever follow up his team on these aggressive jungle invades.
yes, and i'm saying bjergsen is going to get a 20 cs advantage because faker was not in lane.
literally an empty lane. you guys make sound as if bjergsen went toe to toe with faker.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On May 08 2015 14:03 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 13:57 oneofthem wrote:
the argument was bjergsen outplayed faker in lane and only lost because other guys fed. that was not true. It's difficult to say from this game whether Bjergsen is capable of outplaying Faker in lane because in the end, outside forces intervened, which is what occurs in TEAM GAMES. Bjergsen DID, to his credit, punish a mistake out of Faker when he was already ahead due to Faker's roam. That's an out play. But at the same time, Faker was winning in cs before his roam. That's also an outplay. I say they were even in lane. It's what occurred afterward that shows Bjergsen's bad side - his passivity when not on an assassin. In fact, he started doing this in NA LCS too towards the end of the split. A lot of the times you'd see him get an advantage in lane strictly because he simply doesn't roam while his lane opponent does. That works when the rest of TSM is able to hold up under the pressure because they're sufficiently ahead of other NA LCS teams to play 4v5. It doesn't when it's an international event and his team gets rekt.
i just think tsm is pretty lost when their plan is disrupted. tehy are not good at making decisions around the map without the ability to take objectives etc like they are coached to do.
ziggs is ziggs and it's probably there to just push waves and take towers in the hope that kalista and hecarim could get fed and carry later on. the gameplan of relying on dyrus to carry went to shit immediately and they didn't know what to do after that.
faker actually played pretty safe this game, even getting some magic resist in lane which he never does. that was about the limit of ziggs' lane pressure in terms of game impact though.
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though given that Dyrus hasn't been a top lane carry for awhile i dont know why youd gameplan for that anyway
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So that's the end of Limping Goat's MSI then.
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On May 08 2015 14:03 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 13:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 08 2015 13:47 wei2coolman wrote:On May 08 2015 13:44 IshinShishi wrote:
bjerg blew Faker's summs because Faker lost xp chasing Dyrus, if he was 6 too Bjerg would've probably been a corpse. the fact is, bjerg blew faker's summs, but was still absent on the map while faker was all over the map. The fact that bjerg apologist are hanging onto the 20 cs advantage as if it meant anything is proof of the sad state of TSM fans. It doesn't take an amazing player to collapse on a skirmish in your team's side of the jungle. Faker literally just put one e into lustboy to finish him off since TSM had already lost the skirmish before he joined in. There was no chance for bjerg to ever follow up his team on these aggressive jungle invades. yes, and i'm saying bjergsen is going to get a 20 cs advantage because faker was not in lane. literally an empty lane. you guys make sound as if bjergsen went toe to toe with faker.
no one said that. we pointed out the empty jingoism behind your nauseating dick riding. in fact, TSM played that part of the game pretty well. once dyrus was dead he ran around to draw faker, then bjerg pushed and punished faker when faker came back in lane. the problems started 1) with the second dyrus death, and mostly 2) the terrible dive bot after the bengi gank mid.
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Faker made *two* mistakes that game in lane. The first was getting both summoners blown because even though he was level 5 he tried to trade with Bjergsen at level 6, and got punished for it. The second was allowing Dyrus to bait out his ult without a single commitment.
He is not an infallible player. But he had a large impact on the mid game via his roams and team fighting in skirmishes, while Bjergsen's Ziggs had practically none. He also managed to keep up with Bjergsen's cs despite roaming, though a lot of that was because his team had complete map control. But then again, he does that a lot, even when his team isn't that ahead.
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I actually thought Dyrus did the best out of TSM during that game against SKT. Bjergsen is harder to gauge as he did nothing that game =\.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
lol faker ulted on the assumption that dyrus would not pussy out. not sure who trolled who in that situation.
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EPT
