|
United States47024 Posts
On April 15 2015 10:08 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 09:14 TheYango wrote:
ChinaTalk has always been pretty wrong, but that doesn't mean U wasn't good or that you're right calling Namei the "super carry" of EDG. Thats not what I am saying. My entire point is that basically, there is this "China Dilemma" that a ton of people have succumbed to. 1. You love Namei. You think he's great. You've always said he's the #1 ADC in China (maybe the world), and the guy who really made EDG what it was. Sure, he didn't do well at Worlds, but there was that weird rumor about him, plus small sample size. 2. But wait, hes not on EDG anymore, and now EDG is even better than when he was on it. And it would seem that its because these 2 new Koreans are awesome. 3. You reject the obvious explanation and look for something "more chinese" to explain it. So now you hype up Koro1 and Clearlove. Then we get this series, and instead of just saying "Yep, I was wrong about that." Instead you claim that EDG was trolling itself in the U games and if they had just done what you wanted they would have done the same thing. And they follow the same pattern over and over. That's just my problem.
So how does this apply to me who's always thought Namei was overrated as shit?
Hell, not just me, most level-headed opinions would not have placed Namei as "best ADC in China" and not even top 3 in the world.
Amusingly, as Cheep mentioned at some point before, the only people who would rate Namei as #1 are people who AREN'T acquainted enough with China and put too much stock on something Doublelift said 2 years ago.
On April 15 2015 10:44 LimpingGoat wrote:
Whoever does win LPL, they won't win MSI.
I think it depends which team goes.
I think OMG can win MSI if they go, Snake has no chance if they go, and EDG it's like 50/50 (and depends on if Pawn gets to play).
|
Yango not a Snake believer, I'm not surprised.
|
On April 15 2015 11:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 10:08 cLutZ wrote:On April 15 2015 09:14 TheYango wrote:
ChinaTalk has always been pretty wrong, but that doesn't mean U wasn't good or that you're right calling Namei the "super carry" of EDG. Thats not what I am saying. My entire point is that basically, there is this "China Dilemma" that a ton of people have succumbed to. 1. You love Namei. You think he's great. You've always said he's the #1 ADC in China (maybe the world), and the guy who really made EDG what it was. Sure, he didn't do well at Worlds, but there was that weird rumor about him, plus small sample size. 2. But wait, hes not on EDG anymore, and now EDG is even better than when he was on it. And it would seem that its because these 2 new Koreans are awesome. 3. You reject the obvious explanation and look for something "more chinese" to explain it. So now you hype up Koro1 and Clearlove. Then we get this series, and instead of just saying "Yep, I was wrong about that." Instead you claim that EDG was trolling itself in the U games and if they had just done what you wanted they would have done the same thing. And they follow the same pattern over and over. That's just my problem. So how does this apply to me who's always thought Namei was overrated as shit? Hell, not just me, most level-headed opinions would not have placed Namei as "best ADC in China" and not even top 3 in the world. Amusingly, as Cheep mentioned at some point before, the only people who would rate Namei as #1 are people who AREN'T acquainted enough with China and put too much stock on something Doublelift said 2 years ago. Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 10:44 LimpingGoat wrote:
Whoever does win LPL, they won't win MSI. I think it depends which team goes. I think OMG can win MSI if they go, Snake has no chance if they go, and EDG it's like 50/50 (and depends on if Pawn gets to play).
Your not really the one that I've been arguing with...
|
If OMG goes to MSI and they end up winning I'll change my flair. They haven't done anything in the past weeks and it only looks like they're getting worse honestly. How can a team with 5 people speaking the same language look so lost in their strategy and coordination I'll never know.
|
On April 15 2015 11:19 Itsmedudeman wrote:
If OMG goes to MSI and they end up winning I'll change my flair. They haven't done anything in the past weeks and it only looks like they're getting worse honestly. How can a team with 5 people speaking the same language look so lost in their strategy and coordination I'll never know.
Their team culture is probably shit, which is why I'll never take OMG seriously as a World contender.
|
|
|
On April 15 2015 08:18 cLutZ wrote:
Not really? Supposedly, Namei was the super carry of that. AND Supposedly Clearlove was the best chinese jungler (cough). Also they had Fzzf, and people have always been fairly nice to koro1 (Moser is in love with him).
TLDR? China "experts" know less than Jon Snow.
The poor quality of LoL caster-analysts is pretty obvious though I imagine it is because the bulk of LoL caster-analysts aren't paid to be game experts. The LPL casters are especially notorious in talking a lot while saying little, but even the cream of the crop, for example MonteCristo, make such crappy calls at times that it boggles the mind.
For example, all three analysts on Summoning Insight said that TiP was going to beat TSM because "Impact is going to carry on tanky top carries, that is TiP's trump card." Did they even consider that TSM is just going to, you know, ban out Impact's tanky top carries? And of course, Monte turns around immediately afterward and says TiP "didn't play to their strengths," as though Impact didn't get banned out four games in a row, and as though Rush didn't get completely shut down by TSM wards and invades.
To be fair, the EU casters/analysts are normally smarter about their analysis.
|
On April 15 2015 10:29 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 10:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
U didn't perform that great during the series to be honest. He got 2 kills, one donated by spirit, but still failed to make a huge impact on game 4. 2 shockwaves in 2 crucial baron fights he only hit on 1 person and he died to baron. Game 2 and 3 he was pretty much nonexistent, and game 1 he was supporting deft and koro. Not sure why people are so obsessed over U that series. He was average at best, and I've seen plenty of LPL mids have more impact than he did. lol, he wasn't even aware he was playing until day of. there's a reason why even chinese netizens are praising him.
U at his *best* was still a whole level below Pawn. That was obvious when EDG played SSW at Worlds. In fact those games also showed that Clearlove and Namei were vastly overrated, especially Namei because it was accepted wisdom that Chinese junglers sucked at the time, but that Chinese ADCs were the bomb. Turns out that applied to only Uzi.
They also overhyped Koro1 through the course of the season, but Moser did take it back at the last minute and say that Looper and Save were going to destroy him. Course they were wrong about Save, too.
I think Fzzf was the only player on EDG who played evenly with SSW during S4 Worlds. EDG got a huge break this year with basically the best Korean mid who's willing to play outside of Korea, and the best Korean ADC of all time. It's absurd to think that it's Clearlove and Koro1's improvements that have been responsible for EDG's success.
|
I don't think anyone doubts the fact that Pawn>> U, but U is definitely serviceable for EDG to still be #1 in LPL.
|
How do y'all think Vici would fair at MSI? I think that with PawN gone they have a pretty reasonable shot at going considering how dominant they looked leading up to playoffs. I honestly think they could take it pretty easily with the amount of inexperienced junglers likely headed to MSI. Dandy would likely dumpster T0M and Santorin in a way that is illegal to broadcast in most countries.
|
Smart teams know how to handle carry junglers. You've seen that already with how TSM shut down Spirit at IEM.
Vasilli + Mata are serviceable on bot and VG's top is pretty solid, but their mid is going to get dumped on by Bjergsen and Faker.
Whatever advantage Dandy is able to gain in the jungle is going to get nullified by the mid match up, so I don't think VG matches up all that well for MSI.
I think iG has the best shot out of the rest of the LPL teams for MSI because their bot weakness is less of a problem against the sort of bots they're going to see at MSI, so their top tier mid and jungle are free to carry the game.
Zzitai is the only wild card then but it's not though he's bad.
|
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
If WE couldn't handle zombie PawN in 5th game, I'm at least hoping iG is gonna wreck VG in couple of hours.
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 15 2015 11:08 wei2coolman wrote:
Yango not a Snake believer, I'm not surprised.
It has nothing to do with their ability and everything to do with the fact that they have no international tournament experience.
Their chances would go way up if MSI was held in China, tbh, and even then it's hard to say how they'd fair. OMG still probably has a better chance of doing well regardless.
|
On April 15 2015 11:22 LimpingGoat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 11:19 Itsmedudeman wrote:
If OMG goes to MSI and they end up winning I'll change my flair. They haven't done anything in the past weeks and it only looks like they're getting worse honestly. How can a team with 5 people speaking the same language look so lost in their strategy and coordination I'll never know. Their team culture is probably shit, which is why I'll never take OMG seriously as a World contender.
Well atm OMG should not be taken seriously as a world contender. Only EDG and SKT at the moment can be considered as world contender, though. Maybe VG if hetong improves.
|
On April 15 2015 14:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 11:08 wei2coolman wrote:
Yango not a Snake believer, I'm not surprised. It has nothing to do with their ability and everything to do with the fact that they have no international tournament experience. Their chances would go way up if MSI was held in China, tbh, and even then it's hard to say how they'd fair. OMG still probably has a better chance of doing well regardless.
Well I just hope whichever teams that do go to MSI, fucking goes there early to reduce jetlag, and plays seriously.
imo international experience is overrated, most failings of foreign teams in international experience is being cocky and expecting jetlag won't hit them.
|
On April 15 2015 14:03 Azarkon wrote:
Smart teams know how to handle carry junglers. You've seen that already with how TSM shut down Spirit at IEM.
Vasilli + Mata are serviceable on bot and VG's top is pretty solid, but their mid is going to get dumped on by Bjergsen and Faker.
Whatever advantage Dandy is able to gain in the jungle is going to get nullified by the mid match up, so I don't think VG matches up all that well for MSI.
I think iG has the best shot out of the rest of the LPL teams for MSI because their bot weakness is less of a problem against the sort of bots they're going to see at MSI, so their top tier mid and jungle are free to carry the game.
Zzitai is the only wild card then but it's not though he's bad.
TSM was able to shut down Spirit because WE as a team had like 0 synergy at IEM. VG has better players at pretty much every position except for mid against TSM, and VG has some of the best objective control and rotations in LPL. I'd say VG is a heavy favorite against any team that is not named SKT.
|
On April 15 2015 10:44 LimpingGoat wrote:
Whoever does win LPL, they won't win MSI.
I don't think I could stomach SKT winning another regional and international tournament in short turn-around again.
|
On April 15 2015 14:08 739 wrote:
If WE couldn't handle zombie PawN in 5th game, I'm at least hoping iG is gonna wreck VG in couple of hours.
Hope all you want, but VG have the best play in laneswaps in the LPL and a significantly better bottom lane than IG even in a 2v2. I see VG taking a huge lead in the earlygame unless Rookie and Kakao go completely and utterly off. 3-1 for Vici if I had to call it.
On April 15 2015 14:03 Azarkon wrote:
Smart teams know how to handle carry junglers. You've seen that already with how TSM shut down Spirit at IEM.
Vasilli + Mata are serviceable on bot and VG's top is pretty solid, but their mid is going to get dumped on by Bjergsen and Faker.
Whatever advantage Dandy is able to gain in the jungle is going to get nullified by the mid match up, so I don't think VG matches up all that well for MSI.
I think iG has the best shot out of the rest of the LPL teams for MSI because their bot weakness is less of a problem against the sort of bots they're going to see at MSI, so their top tier mid and jungle are free to carry the game.
Zzitai is the only wild card then but it's not though he's bad.
Wouldn't Dandy's and Mata's excellent synergy be good for exposing the weaker botlanes at MSI? Hetong's not a terrible player, I think he'd be able to hold his own fairly well in mid, probably go down like 10-15 cs and get pushed in a neutral matchup but w/e, nothing snowballing bottom lane can't counter-act. I just feel like everyone's overhyping T0M after a couple of good games and Dandy could completely expose him.
Also watch C9 and GE go to MSI and all this prediction nonsense go to waste.
|
I'd actually rather see iG, because Rookie/Kakao is the best jungle/mid combo in the LPL, and I haven't gotten to see it ever seriously face against Faker/Benji. Also, T0M is looking very good in the tank meta. He seems to be the only jungler that understands that the other jungler does no damage, so you can be super reckless as long as your closest lane can support you mildly.
|
On April 15 2015 10:08 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 09:14 TheYango wrote:
ChinaTalk has always been pretty wrong, but that doesn't mean U wasn't good or that you're right calling Namei the "super carry" of EDG. Thats not what I am saying. My entire point is that basically, there is this "China Dilemma" that a ton of people have succumbed to. 1. You love Namei. You think he's great. You've always said he's the #1 ADC in China (maybe the world), and the guy who really made EDG what it was. Sure, he didn't do well at Worlds, but there was that weird rumor about him, plus small sample size. 2. But wait, hes not on EDG anymore, and now EDG is even better than when he was on it. And it would seem that its because these 2 new Koreans are awesome. 3. You reject the obvious explanation and look for something "more chinese" to explain it. So now you hype up Koro1 and Clearlove. Then we get this series, and instead of just saying "Yep, I was wrong about that." Instead you claim that EDG was trolling itself in the U games and if they had just done what you wanted they would have done the same thing. And they follow the same pattern over and over. That's just my problem.
Except that Clearlove/Koro1/Meiko legitimately carried games when PawN/Deft don't show up. Take the recent EDG vs. VG series for example. When you're accusing of people overhyping Chinese players, it's pretty damn obvious that you conveniently not talk about games when the Koreans underperform and when Spirit/Dandy got out-jungled, which actually happened quite often.
No one was denying Pawn/Deft are upgrades to U/Namei, for god's sake these two are best players in the world along with faker. But to downplay what Clearlove/Koro1 did throughout this season is just ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
