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Regis blog is just him venting his frustration with monte, but tbh I don't disagree with much of it.
If CLG wants to be relevant in 2015 LCS (I think whoever loses out of Dig/CLG will stay up) they need to do the following imo:
- release doublelift
- release link
- release dexter
- get a real coach and cut ties with monte, his dismissive attitude towards NA only made this team even more arrogant when they haven't been at worlds since s2...
If EG go down id go after pobelter, I think seraph is actually a decent player just they keep forcing him onto bad picks. Aphro is obviously a god but the rest can go and get fucked, especially double, there is a reason he hasn't won a LAN, his attitude sucks and he expects his team to build around him when he isn't the 'god' he was in season 2.
I also find stuff like link not playin soloq hilarious, you are being fucking paid to play this game, how are you going to go with a real job in 10 years time?
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I always see people saying CLG forces Seraph onto bad picks, but what do they expect him to play? Are people really shitting on CLG for making Seraph play the same broken tanks the majority of other teams are running? Shit like Maokai and Mundo top is in the meta right now because it is obscenely broken. The stuff Seraph is good at in solo queue doesn't work at this level, he can't play Rumble and Yasuo top because they aren't good picks in organized fives.
To me, it kinda seems like Seraph is a patch player who struggles to adapt meta picks. You look at someone like Quas who can pick Nidalee one game, Mao the next and absolutely crush both games, that's the kind of player you want.
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United States23745 Posts
CLG is where Top laners go to die.
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Link and Dexter are fine. Doublelift is not that awful either.
Seraph though...
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you see stuff like this in real sports all the time, athletes who become jaded and lose motivation, that's where management comes in. Regi has done a great job thus far. On the other hand there's liquid112 who refused to turn on his butt buddy saint and couldn't separate personal with business. He probably thought there were no other junglers available but he didn't look hard enough. CLG has made terrible management decisions from the top down. When personnel decisions are made by people who don't play the game and have no experience in management let alone sports management, and I've repeated this over and over, this is the result. You have delusional managers who think their obviously underperforming and undermotivated players are still gods, so they look to place the blame elsewhere. In any corporation or team hierarchy, people need to be held accountable for poor results. Hotshot would benefit from hiring someone with real business experience.
The loss to curse was not any one player's fault, though from my perspective, I think at the very least Dexter can be made aware of his idiocy in listening to whoever told him to camp top for a solo lane Lucian just because it's Doublelift. Otherwise it was a team wide breakdown in game plan and shotcalling. Someone mentioned Seraph being forced to play a champion pool he's not comfortable with and a style he's never practiced. It's really hard to single out individual underperformance unless it's something like kiwikid going 0-7. One or two decisions have nothing to do with winning or losing a game.
Montecristo watches VODs all day, competitive players watch replays, it's not the same thing. Everyone also has access to everything Monte has ever seen. And most people involved in the competitive scene aren't gold unless they are parasitic managers or girls. The new coach CLG got has never been on a competitive challenger team, I'm pretty sure.
On August 26 2014 03:20 Sufficiency wrote:
He was going to play adc on Curse before things fell short for him.
I don't remember that, even if it happened, it was a long time ago. It's amazing you can extrapolate that to the conclusions Aphromoo "still" wants to adc.
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On August 26 2014 12:59 Sufficiency wrote:
Link and Dexter are fine. Doublelift is not that awful either.
Seraph though...
Seraph hasn't been that good but to basically put it all on him is stupid.
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On August 26 2014 13:08 schmutttt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 12:59 Sufficiency wrote:
Link and Dexter are fine. Doublelift is not that awful either.
Seraph though... Seraph hasn't been that good but to basically put it all on him is stupid.
I think, while his play hasn't been the stellar god he was hyped to be, he's constantly been shafted by his team trying to force him into a play style he can't be used in. For example, if Zion wasn't allowed to be Zion, people would constantly have been shitting on him too. Not to mention Seraph probably gets the least support from jungle/mid out of every top in LCS and is probably pretty high up there in traded deaths for dragons/bot towers as a result of enemy teams viewing him as an easy kill.
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On August 26 2014 15:14 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 13:08 schmutttt wrote:On August 26 2014 12:59 Sufficiency wrote:
Link and Dexter are fine. Doublelift is not that awful either.
Seraph though... Seraph hasn't been that good but to basically put it all on him is stupid. I think, while his play hasn't been the stellar god he was hyped to be, he's constantly been shafted by his team trying to force him into a play style he can't be used in. For example, if Zion wasn't allowed to be Zion, people would constantly have been shitting on him too. Not to mention Seraph probably gets the least support from jungle/mid out of every top in LCS and is probably pretty high up there in traded deaths for dragons/bot towers as a result of enemy teams viewing him as an easy kill.
Pretty much. Statistically he is pretty average, but dexter would barely go top (And in games he did go top like the renekton game vs C9 seraph dominated) and they'd intentionally let seraph die for objectives.
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Side-eyeing Regi's vlog. There's ltttle motivation for Regi to film and post that vlog apart from his personal beef with Monte. LBR, it can't be out of concern of CLG"s wellbeing because then he could speak to CLG's management directly. There's so much personal investment(?) in that video =_=;;
Regarding the blanket point being brought up that you're not qualified to be a coach if you have no competitive experience/don't play LoL, I point to 71 of DotA. (manager of the extremely illustrious EHOME, and then the coach of DK 2014). Doesn't play DotA, much less play competitively. The EHOME & DK players all respect him immensely however.
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Should be the exception not the norm
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I read on reddit all the time, that Dexter apparently "trashed" NA by saying 2 weeks in Korea is worth more than a whole split in NA. Is that really true ?
From what I remember Dexter said sth along the line of, when he was on Lemondogs the 2 weeks scrims prior to worlds (with korean teams) helped them more to prepare for Worlds then the entire split before.
I really think that these close interactions from fans to pros wont last long anymore. I mean there is a reason no football player would ever go read a fanforum. Sooner or later no pro will read reddit anymore.
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On August 26 2014 15:14 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 13:08 schmutttt wrote:On August 26 2014 12:59 Sufficiency wrote:
Link and Dexter are fine. Doublelift is not that awful either.
Seraph though... Seraph hasn't been that good but to basically put it all on him is stupid. I think, while his play hasn't been the stellar god he was hyped to be, he's constantly been shafted by his team trying to force him into a play style he can't be used in. For example, if Zion wasn't allowed to be Zion, people would constantly have been shitting on him too. Not to mention Seraph probably gets the least support from jungle/mid out of every top in LCS and is probably pretty high up there in traded deaths for dragons/bot towers as a result of enemy teams viewing him as an easy kill.
I agree. It´s very easy to blame Seraph because the numbers against him are massive. But if you look into the games you see several reasons for that, that are not cohered with his individual performance:
1. He is constantly picked into losing matchups for the team´s sake. You saw this during the match with Curse in G1&2. And in G3 he gets a huge advantage during laning and that is later nullified by the bad play and shotcalling of the whole team around the first dragon. Since he is not the main shotcaller on the team, you have to expect, that he followed orders there.
2. He was camped a lot earlier in the season while getting no support. And don´t get me wrong on this. You can base a team´s strategy around that and it worked out well for CLG most of the time. But then don´t expect great numbers out of the guy being camped 24/7 in top. And I think he did allways relatively well playing from this bad position.
3. He plays every champion, the team wanted him to play. Everytime. And he allways did, what you expected out of the picks and matchups. Sometimes making good plays, like when he solo´d Quas in G1 against Curse. Ofc he also made mistakes, NO player in NA LCS does not constantly make smaller or bigger mistakes. But the number of actual blunders from him is quite low - compared to his teammates in the last weeks before playoffs and the series against Curse.
The main problems of CLG is pick and ban, shot calling, team fighting and playing up to their own winconditions. They are getting outpicked over and over again, they make terrible teamdecision and tactical play and they use their comps horribly.
pick and ban just has been disastrous. G2 and 3 against Curse were lost right there if you ask me. Questionable picks like Thresh, when Braum is up (this also holds true for G1, where Braum would´ve been able to peel for and protect your double carries so much better). This problem ofc goes hand in hand with the second point
playing out your win conditions, which is maybe the main problem of the team. The way they use their picks and comps is abysmal. G1 against Curse: First they picked Twitch together with their midlane Kog. Which is kinda stupid, because twitch sucks at sieging and mid Kog wants to siege. Link then didn´t build Lich Bane on his Kog. So in the end they played a midlane pick, which only strength is sieging without a team build around him to siege and without ever really sieging. This is just an example of a big overall problem of this team.
shot calling is the other main thing here. Their calls when to go for Barons and Dragons in G2&3 were terrible. And you have to wonder why that is. Because for 2/3 of the season, this was one of the biggest strengths of the team. And even in G1 they did a perfect job for the first 40 minutes of the game in this regard. Why does the decision making and shot calling fall apart in this team from one week to another and even one moment to another within the same game?
And it´s not only that. All these 3 problems appeared out of nowhere in the last third of the summer season. And you really have to wonder where this comes from. Patch changes? Perhaps. CLG once had a beastly midgame and with the adc Itemisation changes, the midgame doesn´t hold as much importance anymore. The game has become much more lategame focused and that hurt CLG quite a bit.
But that can´t be the reason for them to make those very bad calls during all parts of a match. And this is also the reason, why I don´t really buy into the MC blame. Because you saw a lot of his influence in the way CLG played in spring and start of summer.
It much more looks to me, that there might be some conflict between him and one or several players and that he doesn´t reach the team anymore because of that. And the fact, that it looks like at least one CLG player complained about his coaching towards Regi/TSM players supports this theory.
teamfighting has never been a core strength of CLG and this is the part of gameplay, that monte can affect the least with his oversea coaching attempt. He can teach them strategy, he can teach them pick and ban. He can teach them lane swaps and so on. To teach them Teamfighting, he has to be there right behind them and show them precisely where to step in which situation. And the fact, that this has been CLG´s weakness all season long brings more into the theory, that MC did reach the team with his coaching and improved their performance quite a bit in the areas of the game, that he could improve.
So what to do now? CLG has ofc to question everything. Every player and ofc also MC as coach. They have to analyse where their potential lies to improve onwards. I think they need a completely new shotcalling core. They need a clear teamleader, that communicates well, has a good attitude and is a strong teamplayer. Could this be AlexIch? Perhaps. If they want to keep MC as coach, they need to eliminate every interference that causes the team to not follow his plans. It would be pure speculation for me, where this lies, so I won´t go into that. The question is, if you fire MC, who takes over and how do you ensure, that there won´t be a break up between coach and players again? So I would stick to MC, because the team showed a lot of his handwriting for most of season 4 and only started to do bad, when you couldn´t see anything of it anymore.
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Looking for opinions, but what is TSM's identity? DIG is captain split push, LMQ has ridiculous teamfighting but weak positional play, CRS is super volatile early game, and C9 does objective play really well. TSM doesn't really seem to have an identity right now, or at least, nothing that stands out.
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On August 26 2014 18:50 ShootAnonymous wrote:
Side-eyeing Regi's vlog. There's ltttle motivation for Regi to film and post that vlog apart from his personal beef with Monte. LBR, it can't be out of concern of CLG"s wellbeing because then he could speak to CLG's management directly. There's so much personal investment(?) in that video =_=;;
Regarding the blanket point being brought up that you're not qualified to be a coach if you have no competitive experience/don't play LoL, I point to 71 of DotA. (manager of the extremely illustrious EHOME, and then the coach of DK 2014). Doesn't play DotA, much less play competitively. The EHOME & DK players all respect him immensely however.
Difference with guys like 71 is that they been coaching/managing for years now. It's a gamble at the start to have someone with no experience that actually works out.
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On August 26 2014 21:56 Gahlo wrote:
Looking for opinions, but what is TSM's identity? DIG is captain split push, LMQ has ridiculous teamfighting but weak positional play, CRS is super volatile early game, and C9 does objective play really well. TSM doesn't really seem to have an identity right now, or at least, nothing that stands out.
Trying to play super solid, ending up playing super cautios. Overall very scared to make mistakes and lose (I am still hoping this will change once they are not the favorites anymore).
They kind of remind me of Alliance but with less confidence.
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Really don't think alex ich would be a good pickup dunno why are people even thinking about it.First of all he has to move to na with his wife/child and second this is the person who got stomped by ocelote in lane in even matchups.Maybe if he fixes his shit but his performance in the end was just straight up bad.
Seraph really doesn't get camped as much as everyone likes to say.That is just a myth that comes from the fact that dexter isn't a consistent jungler.There was a lot of criticism for amazing and how he has insane highs and even worse lows.Dexter is the same.Also seraph's play in the season was just straight up bad.Can blame it on the team/picks/w.e but in the end he didn't play well.He literally has the worst stats in the league.Behind innox.Let that fucking sink in.
Honestly never really cared about monte.Most of the stuff he said seemed fairly obvious to me and most people I have asked.Can't really say if he has done something but he clearly wasn't able to keep the players focused and mentally prepared for the playoffs.Of course it all comes down to the players in the end but their biggest accomplishment since lcs started is getting third after losing in semifinals in an irrelevant season due to choking.
Just a bit of a side note but all these players complaining about how people speak to them on the internet need to get a reality check.This is how the world works.Yes it is stupid but most people are stupid too can't change that.
That has been tsm's playstyle since s2.Just play safe and beat the opponent with solid play.
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On August 26 2014 21:56 Gahlo wrote:
Looking for opinions, but what is TSM's identity? DIG is captain split push, LMQ has ridiculous teamfighting but weak positional play, CRS is super volatile early game, and C9 does objective play really well. TSM doesn't really seem to have an identity right now, or at least, nothing that stands out.
reliant on good laning, weaker rotational play
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On August 26 2014 22:07 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 18:50 ShootAnonymous wrote:
Side-eyeing Regi's vlog. There's ltttle motivation for Regi to film and post that vlog apart from his personal beef with Monte. LBR, it can't be out of concern of CLG"s wellbeing because then he could speak to CLG's management directly. There's so much personal investment(?) in that video =_=;;
Regarding the blanket point being brought up that you're not qualified to be a coach if you have no competitive experience/don't play LoL, I point to 71 of DotA. (manager of the extremely illustrious EHOME, and then the coach of DK 2014). Doesn't play DotA, much less play competitively. The EHOME & DK players all respect him immensely however. Difference with guys like 71 is that they been coaching/managing for years now. It's a gamble at the start to have someone with no experience that actually works out.
Definitely; I just feel that "Coach's lack of competitive LoL experience" has been unfairly labelled as one of the major source of CLG's performance issues. I honestly feel that if Loco/Scarra & Monte had swapped places CLG would've still flopped, more or less.
Also: it's true that 71 is the exception. I just don't think it's advisable(?) for orgs to limit themselves to ex-pros when looking for coaches. (AFAIK BW & SC, or any other esport for that matter, never took off in the west the way it did in KR, so the pool feels comparatively limited?)
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On August 26 2014 18:50 ShootAnonymous wrote:
Side-eyeing Regi's vlog. There's ltttle motivation for Regi to film and post that vlog apart from his personal beef with Monte. LBR, it can't be out of concern of CLG"s wellbeing because then he could speak to CLG's management directly. There's so much personal investment(?) in that video =_=;;
Regarding the blanket point being brought up that you're not qualified to be a coach if you have no competitive experience/don't play LoL, I point to 71 of DotA. (manager of the extremely illustrious EHOME, and then the coach of DK 2014). Doesn't play DotA, much less play competitively. The EHOME & DK players all respect him immensely however.
Or like almost every Korean LoL coach there is. If they want people in their house who are really good at playing the game themselves, they get them as practice partners for their lanes, but not as coaches.
Coaches in Korea have a lot of experience of course.
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CLG's problems seem to stem more from the whole, and less so the individuals. I don't know why people are calling for the removal of DL. Yeah, let's breakup one of the best botlanes in the region, cuz of overall team issues. DL's only an issue because CLG feels forced to use him as a crutch, instead of as just a regular limb. That's more of a fault of CLG as a whole and less so DL.
Seraph's play has been fairly questionable all season. Yeah, he's been fucked six ways to Sunday with how CLG treats the top lane, but that's no excuse for the hilarity of bad teleports and engages.
Link just feels average, feels like jiji 2.0. Goes even, waits for teamfights. Needs to be a lot more aggressive imo, especially considering CLG always sacrifices top lane. You need your other 2 lanes to win, in order to transition into mid game. 1 lane winning, and 1 lane going even, and one getting royally screwed is not a winning condition.
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EPT
