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On September 16 2013 15:50 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:44 Navi wrote:On September 16 2013 15:41 cascades wrote:On September 16 2013 15:34 Navi wrote:On September 16 2013 15:33 cascades wrote:On September 16 2013 15:29 Navi wrote:
from a mechanics standpoint, i feel ozone is still the #1 team in the world. dade for all his fuckups that game still can play the flash reaction and etc. etc. very well.
however, dade's mental state and their general early game plans and picks seem lacking from watching this first game. dade's still picking ryze as though this was several patches before (when ryze still had the range to effectively harass ahri without risk of getting charmed as long as he had movespeed parity or advantage) and obviously his gameplay and scores speak for themselves.
yango and i were joking that this is the faker effect - all the mids faker has crushed in the reverse sweeps (ryu, and now dade) seem to be less clutch and have less mental fortitude vs the opponents that matter. i hope he can wake up and pick his shit up in day 2. Dade's was never on Faker's level. Been saying this ever since that 3 kings bullshit. That being said I hope it's him playing Ryze and not him being mentally crushed. never said dade was on faker's level. but when you look at the entirety of ozone's lineup (dandy, imp, and mata) i cannot think of three players in those positions that are as a whole significantly better mechanically at all. How is ozone the #1 team in the world from mechanics standpoint then? Imp isn't better than Piglet either. i'd say the two are comparable. but i'd favor dandy over bengi for certain, homme has matched up decently vs impact in the past, and now looper seems quite impressive (from his singed play lolol). they can make certain skirmish comps (such as comps that would be otherwise fatally affected by massive aoe) work by the sheer mechanical skills of things such as dandy's elise rappels, etc. that I have yet to see any other team do. i'm a madlife fan too, but you would be ignorant to call him straight up on a higher level than mata. madlife perhaps has more playmaking sense, but mata has come up just as clutch quite often and tends to use flash better defensively. Yeah I edited my post. I rate mata higher as a support actually, but just not mechanically wise.
mata has hit rank 1 on KR ladder playing other roles. He has plenty of mechanics
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I honestly don't think it was an intentional cold shoulder either. He probably thought it was one of the refs or his teammates tapping his shoulder since they don't really do the handshake thing in Korea. Remember they just took a pretty hefty loss so he was probably deep in thought. After he realized he shook hands and even bowed a bit.
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On September 16 2013 15:51 billy5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:47 lilwisper wrote:On September 16 2013 15:45 billy5000 wrote:On September 16 2013 15:41 Disengaged wrote:On September 16 2013 15:40 billy5000 wrote:
Oh wow..I'm really disappointed by ozone showing not even the slightest respect to other teams, which could explain the dumb individual/small plays in laning phase thinking they could out power them like they're some no name team.And that cold shoulder. Especially that cold shoulder. I don't know, it's even worse since I'm korean as well. Damn did they lose so many fans tonight. Get over yourself and put your pitch fork away. Fair enough. Regardless, the lack of respect still holds true. Not knowing a custom isn't a lack of respect. I meant in-game. If you haven't watched their 2 games, they rarely ever stopped to think twice. Always over-committing themselves from the start.
So I assume Vulcan was disrespecting Ozone as well when they got caught out left and right??? Sometimes players just play bad. Yes, even Koreans...
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On September 16 2013 15:49 imBLIND wrote:
It's pretty interesting to see the upsets in OMG vs SKT and BenQ vs SSO. While I definitely think that OMG and BenQ played those games very well, I dont think the koreans prepared for this kind of group stage Bo1. OGN has everything as Bo3 and Bo5. Expect the koreans to just "survive" the group stage Bo1s (even though i think they will probably figure out every team by day 3) and dominate the quarter/semi finals.
do you even Ogn???
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On September 16 2013 15:52 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:49 Vanka wrote:
Whatever the build was, the kogmaw pick I felt was extremely intelligent, considering that kogmaw hasn't had a ton of competitive play lately I think ozone was really caught off-guard by what kog maw does, and that is kill everything ever in seconds. The tri-force, whatever it does, did win genja lane by a big margin, and if you told me before worlds that genja voidle would maintain a 10+ cs lead on imp and mata I wouldn't have believed you.
Also darien deserves some respect, it's so easy to just whiff taunt right away and vayne easily tumbling out of it but darien when he was chasing imp down was so patient on the taunt and so on point with them so that he actually did kill imp's slippery vayne, it was impressive. Kogmaw triforce isn't bad, and kogmaw triforce certainly does have huge presence in lane. Genja's builds are overrated, but credit to genja for adapting, and this one isn't half-bad. Don't listen to lift who is shit.
plz. Triforce kogmaw is shit. It's easy to make shit look good when the enemy support is flashing into you for a free kill
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On September 16 2013 15:52 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:49 Vanka wrote:
Whatever the build was, the kogmaw pick I felt was extremely intelligent, considering that kogmaw hasn't had a ton of competitive play lately I think ozone was really caught off-guard by what kog maw does, and that is kill everything ever in seconds. The tri-force, whatever it does, did win genja lane by a big margin, and if you told me before worlds that genja voidle would maintain a 10+ cs lead on imp and mata I wouldn't have believed you.
Also darien deserves some respect, it's so easy to just whiff taunt right away and vayne easily tumbling out of it but darien when he was chasing imp down was so patient on the taunt and so on point with them so that he actually did kill imp's slippery vayne, it was impressive. Kogmaw triforce isn't bad, and kogmaw triforce certainly does have huge presence in lane. Genja's builds are overrated, but credit to genja for adapting, and this one isn't half-bad. Don't listen to lift who is shit.
At least Doublelift realizes that blue Ezreal is still the superior build.
Honestly, the triforce hype train is hurting a lot of teams. Vulcan for instance, I don't get why they don't just go back to putting Zuna on Trist or Kog and letting him do his thing with an IE, they're forcing picks that they don't know how to play with and it's hurting them as far as I can tell.
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Na always dragging winrate of certain op champions down.
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On September 16 2013 15:53 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:49 imBLIND wrote:
It's pretty interesting to see the upsets in OMG vs SKT and BenQ vs SSO. While I definitely think that OMG and BenQ played those games very well, I dont think the koreans prepared for this kind of group stage Bo1. OGN has everything as Bo3 and Bo5. Expect the koreans to just "survive" the group stage Bo1s (even though i think they will probably figure out every team by day 3) and dominate the quarter/semi finals.
do you even Ogn???
to be fair, OGN tends to have many more Bo3s and Bo5s on a regular basis compared to the relatively long grind of league-format bo1s that the LCS has in EU and NA.
i think its a valid point though. OMG have had a history of being relatively un-clutch in bo5s and even in the bo3 format, it'll be interesting to see if that shows up here. and as for SKT, i can't think of another team i would favor as much in a bo5 at this point lol. those back to back jaedong sweeps mang.
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I think if Dade picks Ryze again, doublelift's suspicions will be confirmed.
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On September 16 2013 15:55 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:52 cascades wrote:On September 16 2013 15:49 Vanka wrote:
Whatever the build was, the kogmaw pick I felt was extremely intelligent, considering that kogmaw hasn't had a ton of competitive play lately I think ozone was really caught off-guard by what kog maw does, and that is kill everything ever in seconds. The tri-force, whatever it does, did win genja lane by a big margin, and if you told me before worlds that genja voidle would maintain a 10+ cs lead on imp and mata I wouldn't have believed you.
Also darien deserves some respect, it's so easy to just whiff taunt right away and vayne easily tumbling out of it but darien when he was chasing imp down was so patient on the taunt and so on point with them so that he actually did kill imp's slippery vayne, it was impressive. Kogmaw triforce isn't bad, and kogmaw triforce certainly does have huge presence in lane. Genja's builds are overrated, but credit to genja for adapting, and this one isn't half-bad. Don't listen to lift who is shit. At least Doublelift realizes that blue Ezreal is still the superior build. Honestly, the triforce hype train is hurting a lot of teams. Vulcan for instance, I don't get why they don't just go back to putting Zuna on Trist or Kog and letting him do his thing with an IE, they're forcing picks that they don't know how to play with and it's hurting them as far as I can tell.
zuna on corki against fnatic looked good imo.
there were a lot more problems with other players in the ozone game. Getting caught and then fighting 4v5 is never a winning strategy.
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On September 16 2013 15:55 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:52 cascades wrote:On September 16 2013 15:49 Vanka wrote:
Whatever the build was, the kogmaw pick I felt was extremely intelligent, considering that kogmaw hasn't had a ton of competitive play lately I think ozone was really caught off-guard by what kog maw does, and that is kill everything ever in seconds. The tri-force, whatever it does, did win genja lane by a big margin, and if you told me before worlds that genja voidle would maintain a 10+ cs lead on imp and mata I wouldn't have believed you.
Also darien deserves some respect, it's so easy to just whiff taunt right away and vayne easily tumbling out of it but darien when he was chasing imp down was so patient on the taunt and so on point with them so that he actually did kill imp's slippery vayne, it was impressive. Kogmaw triforce isn't bad, and kogmaw triforce certainly does have huge presence in lane. Genja's builds are overrated, but credit to genja for adapting, and this one isn't half-bad. Don't listen to lift who is shit. At least Doublelift realizes that blue Ezreal is still the superior build. Honestly, the triforce hype train is hurting a lot of teams. Vulcan for instance, I don't get why they don't just go back to putting Zuna on Trist or Kog and letting him do his thing with an IE, they're forcing picks that they don't know how to play with and it's hurting them as far as I can tell.
Zuna actually looked good today on Corki and Ezreal compared to his usual picks so i'm not certain why you say this has hurt Vulcun.
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On September 16 2013 15:48 Complete wrote:
also another question, I'll again mention this is my first time watching pro LoL so maybe I don't know the community well enough
but wtf is with this "disrespect" accusations towards the korean team that lost? From what I understand this is a big tournament that has the biggest prize pool of the year that everybody wants to win, do you guys really think they're picking things that are bad on purpose to disrespect the enemy? doesn't make any sense to me.
Ozone picked a champion that no one uses anymore. Twice. No one uses him because he's really fucking bad and it showed when Dade didn't do anything both games. Most people see it as a disrespect pick since no one plays that champion anymore. In any region. It isn't even just fans looking at that as a diss, a pro player named scarra even tweeted about the pick being a bit disrespectful.
It's possible that Ozone thought it was a good comp (it wasn't lol) but some people see it as disrespectful because that champion is not that great in the current meta. Almost positive Ozone wouldn't try that comp against SKT/OMG/Sword/Royal Club.
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On September 16 2013 15:56 Shiznick wrote:
I think if Dade picks Ryze again, doublelift's suspicions will be confirmed.
Either dade thinks ryze nerfs weren't that bad, in which he's bad for not recognizing how much it hurt the champ. Or he can't play anything outside his cham pool, and thus still bad.
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On September 16 2013 15:53 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:51 billy5000 wrote:On September 16 2013 15:47 lilwisper wrote:On September 16 2013 15:45 billy5000 wrote:On September 16 2013 15:41 Disengaged wrote:On September 16 2013 15:40 billy5000 wrote:
Oh wow..I'm really disappointed by ozone showing not even the slightest respect to other teams, which could explain the dumb individual/small plays in laning phase thinking they could out power them like they're some no name team.And that cold shoulder. Especially that cold shoulder. I don't know, it's even worse since I'm korean as well. Damn did they lose so many fans tonight. Get over yourself and put your pitch fork away. Fair enough. Regardless, the lack of respect still holds true. Not knowing a custom isn't a lack of respect. I meant in-game. If you haven't watched their 2 games, they rarely ever stopped to think twice. Always over-committing themselves from the start. So I assume Vulcan was disrespecting Ozone as well when they got caught out left and right??? Sometimes players just play bad. Yes, even Koreans...
Yes, that would be right. It did feel that vulcan got a bit cocky after getting the initial lead against a tough opponent. But I think the better expression would be that vulcan got too eager. Again, I already acknowledged the fact that I made a bitchy comment, but I still think ozone went into the games way too overconfident.
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The koreans lost the early game in all 4 games. The fact that they were even able to come back in 2 of them was amazing. I highly doubt this will happen over and over for the rest of the group stage. Yes, you can beat the koreans and take a game, especially when things are so up in the air with the new patch and the koreans are the most studied team in the world. Their picks and bans were not strong either. However, the only time I think the koreans played particularly bad was in game 2 against Gambit.
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On September 16 2013 15:50 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:48 cLutZ wrote:On September 16 2013 15:44 Scip wrote:
Done an analysis of the game on ts3 but why not repeat it here
GG places no wards lvl1, which is pretty curious.
Dendy then goes and camps top for like 90 seconds as if to countergank even though it shoulda been kinda obvious that Diamond is not gonna gank there because of the 0 ward business. Unless he tried to call the doublebluff, but w/e.
Diamond farms, which is why he is so good.
Dendy tries to countergank middle, but has level disadvantage because he's done fall all game. Level advantage > element of surprise.
Snowball AKA: Gambit Meteos'd Ozone. You mean Meteos Diamondprox'd NA? Give some respect. Gambit are the "Dark Horse" because they jack themselves off for EU LCS and All Stars because like Ozone they have no respect. But in Big Time LAN like the strong CIS LAN tradition, they bootcamp and come out for serious business.
I mean, yes, Diamond > Meteos, but Diamond just does everything at all times.
Honestly, I don't see a problem for KR teams right now because I thought OMG, SKTT1, SSO, and GG (or FNATIC) would advance.
Also, people just are obviously not comfortable with this patch. The Corki stuff is totally new (and he is a lane domination champ, which is the hardest kind to deal with, its basically like Draven 2.0), ZAC nerfs, TF Changes,etc. This is still a game in flux. Especially a botlane in flux.
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On September 16 2013 15:59 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:56 Shiznick wrote:
I think if Dade picks Ryze again, doublelift's suspicions will be confirmed. Either dade thinks ryze nerfs weren't that bad, in which he's bad for not recognizing how much it hurt the champ. Or he can't play anything outside his cham pool, and thus still bad.
He can only really play TF, Ryze, Zed, and Ezreal at a world class level.
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On September 16 2013 15:58 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:48 Complete wrote:
also another question, I'll again mention this is my first time watching pro LoL so maybe I don't know the community well enough
but wtf is with this "disrespect" accusations towards the korean team that lost? From what I understand this is a big tournament that has the biggest prize pool of the year that everybody wants to win, do you guys really think they're picking things that are bad on purpose to disrespect the enemy? doesn't make any sense to me. Ozone picked a champion that no one uses anymore. Twice. No one uses him because he's really fucking bad and it showed when Dade didn't do anything both games. Most people see it as a disrespect pick since no one plays that champion anymore. In any region. It isn't even just fans looking at that as a diss, a pro player named scarra even tweeted about the pick being a bit disrespectful. It's possible that Ozone thought it was a good comp (it wasn't lol) but some people see it as disrespectful because that champion is not that great in the current meta. Almost positive Ozone wouldn't try that comp against SKT/OMG/Sword/Royal Club.
This combined with the high opinion that the casters (and TL) have of the Korean progaming teams.
It's "respect" used to mean "acknowledgement," e.g. not placing pink wards in lane could be a lack of respect for Eve's ganking power, but it could also have been a lack of respect for diamond's ability to gank with Eve (basically what the analysts were saying)
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Thank you based riot for fast HD uploads on the youtube channel.
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On September 16 2013 16:03 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:58 overt wrote:On September 16 2013 15:48 Complete wrote:
also another question, I'll again mention this is my first time watching pro LoL so maybe I don't know the community well enough
but wtf is with this "disrespect" accusations towards the korean team that lost? From what I understand this is a big tournament that has the biggest prize pool of the year that everybody wants to win, do you guys really think they're picking things that are bad on purpose to disrespect the enemy? doesn't make any sense to me. Ozone picked a champion that no one uses anymore. Twice. No one uses him because he's really fucking bad and it showed when Dade didn't do anything both games. Most people see it as a disrespect pick since no one plays that champion anymore. In any region. It isn't even just fans looking at that as a diss, a pro player named scarra even tweeted about the pick being a bit disrespectful. It's possible that Ozone thought it was a good comp (it wasn't lol) but some people see it as disrespectful because that champion is not that great in the current meta. Almost positive Ozone wouldn't try that comp against SKT/OMG/Sword/Royal Club. This combined with the high opinion that the casters (and TL) have of the Korean progaming teams. It's "respect" used to mean "acknowledgement," e.g. not placing pink wards in lane could be a lack of respect for Eve's ganking power, but it could also have been a lack of respect for diamond's ability to gank with Eve (basically what the analysts were saying)
I think it was more so because it would have just gotten dewarded considering that kogmaw and sona are much stronger than vayne zyra. However, I think not knowing where Diamond was all game was definitely the game changer. The koreans in general had a weak early level 1.
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EPT
