EPT[IPL] IPL5 Discussion - Page 302
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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foxmeep
Australia2333 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:34 Redox wrote: Btw, why is not a single person even mentioning Wickd's farm, which was the real difference the last game? We indirectly mentioned it by saying WICKD WHY YOU NO IRELIA?! | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:30 NEOtheONE wrote: He's only been nerfed about a dozen times. It's called don't teamfight over the dead Karthus. That's anti-Karthus 101. This last game proved it's just not that easy. They caught Karthus out so he just flashed into them because that's how he was going to do the most damage. The idea of flashing into a team so and dying on purpose to ensure your max DPS seems pretty silly to me. And to my point, Defile has never been nerfed, just his other abilities. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:31 Amui wrote: Game 3 I think was decided in pick phase. After banning out all the "strong" AP's, and seeing vayne on the table, I have no idea why froggen didn't go karthus. They had to pick both mid and top, and TBH, knowing what karthus does for vayne(gives them a huge frontline that deals massive damage to divers), should've picked away the karthus. Irelia doesn't do any worse against rengar than rumble(that stupid W max with resists/health is still dumb as fuck). What vayne really dies to midgame is CC+diver's, EDIT: Also I agree, pete is weaker than other AD's, but it's not by that big of a margin. What really happens is froggen is #1, wickd #2(unless playing malphite), and pete #3 for farm priority. Looked like CLG wanted to play double AP with blitz for the instanukes. Also wombo combo midgame AoE ults TPA delayed the midgame push really hard though with the lane swaps and also Stanley's beastmode laning skills. CLG just never really got to hit their power spike. They got decently far mid pushing it in and denying bebe up to around ~25 mins, but just couldn't get the sidelanes going | ||
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TheSinisterRed
United States1546 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:34 Redox wrote: Btw, why is not a single person even mentioning Wickd's farm, which was the real difference the last game? I don't think Wickd getting more farm would have helped. They just didn't have the team to shut down Karthus, Rengar and Vayne in a teamfight when so much of their damage was AOE ults. If they didn't get two of the three down almost as soon as the fight started the sustained damage from TPA would kill them unless they were far enough ahead, which they never were. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
1. pete couldn't shut down Karthus 1v1 in lane. In my mind it should be very easy to outplay a Karthus in lane; 2. Snoopeh and Krepo overstayed top and gave Karthus free kills. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
clg eu focuses, and usually does very well, with large objective controls, but fails to realize that farm is also a resource to be managed and focused on, since farm gets you more gold than anything else in the end...every 6 minutes, you'll see clg eu move very purposefully to contest a dragon, but in the interrim minutes, they tend not to look like they have a clear plan beyond 1. farm what you can 2. wait for someone to missposition 3. wait for next objective | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: clg eu focuses, and usually does very well, with large objective controls, but fails to realize that farm is also a resource to be managed and focused on, since farm gets you more gold than anything else in the end...every 6 minutes, you'll see clg eu move very purposefully to contest a dragon, but in the interrim minutes, they tend not to look like they have a clear plan beyond 1. farm what you can 2. wait for someone to missposition 3. wait for next objective This also arguably contributes to why even their winning games get drawn out so long. There's that period of time where they've taken objectives, and have an advantage, but not one that's big enough to actually high ground--but they don't do well at really keeping up the pressure and suppressing the other team's farm, which is why it feels like they're just stalling at that point. | ||
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TheSinisterRed
United States1546 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: in terms of farm allocation, asian teams tend to have it divided better after laning phase breaks down, so that everyone is farming everything efficiently, whereas it feels like a lot of western teams, even clg eu, has trouble maximizing farm efficiency. we end up with 1-2 people (eg. froggen and wick) just going between camps to farm everything, with the otehr 3 people running around mindlessly, whereas tpa definitely showed how they can give space for bebe to farm, and when needed, can let toyz find space to farm, with the other people always doing something productive beyond just running around aimlessly from lane to lane krepo/snoopeh style. all the pressure that tpa applies is designed with the purpose of getting either toyz or beb X amount of time to farm a wave or two. It just feels a lot more fluid and natural instead of CLGeu's aimless wandering. clg eu focuses, and usually does very well, with large objective controls, but fails to realize that farm is also a resource to be managed and focused on, since farm gets you more gold than anything else in the end...every 6 minutes, you'll see clg eu move very purposefully to contest a dragon, but in the interrim minutes, they tend not to look like they have a clear plan beyond 1. farm what you can 2. wait for someone to missposition 3. wait for next objective That is a really good point. Maybe that will be one of the next big things NA/some EU teams will have to pick up on to improve. So far a few NA teams have shown that they can keep up with top teams in terms of teamfighting and lane movement, but seem to fall apart after that point. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:37 onlywonderboy wrote: This last game proved it's just not that easy. They caught Karthus out so he just flashed into them because that's how he was going to do the most damage. The idea of flashing into a team so and dying on purpose to ensure your max DPS seems pretty silly to me. And to my point, Defile has never been nerfed, just his other abilities. This is just Riot being Riot. Karth Defile has always been #1 The OP part of Karthus; #2 The least interesting part of Karthus (thus the logical thing to nerf); and 3. The part of Karthus they never have nerfed. Karth Q and R is what defines him as a champ stylistically. W and E is what defines him balance-wise. Yet R is the nerf target mostly. | ||
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nennx
United States310 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:26 Seuss wrote: Care to elaborate? I'm curious what you feel stands out as bad. the fact that pretty much every game is decided in the first 5 kills or so of the game and the fact theres little hope of coming back in a game besides stalling the game and letting your adcarry get farm pretty boring if you ask me, and these things have really been worse since season 2 started User was warned for this post | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:02 nennx wrote: the fact that pretty much every game is decided in the first 5 kills or so of the game and the fact theres little hope of coming back in a game besides stalling the game and letting your adcarry get farm pretty boring if you ask me tpa was down like 3-4 kills in both games they won and came back, so... | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:02 nennx wrote: the fact that pretty much every game is decided in the first 5 kills or so of the game and the fact theres little hope of coming back in a game besides stalling the game and letting your adcarry get farm pretty boring if you ask me, and these things have really been worse since season 2 started You obviously didn't watch Game 2 of WE vs CLG.EU | ||
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nennx
United States310 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: tpa was down like 3-4 kills in both games they won and came back, so... the first game was over 15 minutes in since CLG had no way to close out the game or stop caitlyn. don't know why everyone acted surprise when caitlyn got items and killed the enemy team. league of items at its finest there was never a big gold margin in either game | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: tpa was down like 3-4 kills in both games they won and came back, so... Thought it was weird that eu is traditionally the "comeback" team players. But Jatt does bring a strong point that .eu is like "the gatekeepers" as far as League professionals are concerned. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9118 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:02 nennx wrote: the fact that pretty much every game is decided in the first 5 kills or so of the game and the fact theres little hope of coming back in a game besides stalling the game and letting your adcarry get farm pretty boring if you ask me, and these things have really been worse since season 2 started There were plenty of comebacks in this tournament, most memorable was probably Fnatic vs TPA game 2 or TPA vs SGS game 1. Anyway I find this funny considering that most criticism towards LoL actually says it's too forgiving. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:00 cLutZ wrote: This is just Riot being Riot. Karth Defile has always been #1 The OP part of Karthus; #2 The least interesting part of Karthus (thus the logical thing to nerf); and 3. The part of Karthus they never have nerfed. Karth Q and R is what defines him as a champ stylistically. W and E is what defines him balance-wise. Yet R is the nerf target mostly. His R definitely defines his balance. It's because of his R that he can sit in lane and farm while picking up free kills. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:15 Sufficiency wrote: His R definitely defines his balance. It's because of his R that he can sit in lane and farm while picking up free kills. So? Picking up Kills with Karthus R is what he is all about. You know what is is not all about? AOEing the entire team down like shen with 10 sunfirecapes. Like I said a long while back, a champ with a strong global presence (a defining part of karthus) should have a relatively weak local presence. TF abides by this rule (only 1 damaging move lategame, and 1 utility spell late), shen kinda does (his damage is pretty rubbish), etc. | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:15 Sufficiency wrote: His R definitely defines his balance. It's because of his R that he can sit in lane and farm while picking up free kills. And that has literally nothing to do with his teamfight presence and why he is so strong. It's also why consistently nerfing his r has done basically nothing to weaken his true strength and role in a team. | ||
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