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In bold, please post any uStream feedback you have. Include your country and browserI'll be relaying intel back to Riot. Much thanks. - Neo, 11:37 30.08 Day 1 DataDay 2 Data |
There seems to be some confusion about TOO counter jungling success in Game 1 of the finals. He was able to dominate the top half of Dig's jungle because their team comp had been designed for success in counterjungling. They chose champions that could push Mid and Top early, giving TOO the support he needed to eat Skarner's jungle. This also had the effect of losing Regi farm (he was pushed up and in the jungle, supporting TOO, rather than making sure to hit all of his CS), but TSM thought the tradeoff was worth it.
My point is, jungle is a team effort. It's the same way when Curse decides to let Saint farm and take cs while their carries roam, etc. And you could tell in game 2 (I think?) of the 3rd place match, when Saint had 3x the farm of Alistar. In straight up fights, the difference was clear, and Curse was able to win. If they'd been a bit more patient and found a good engage, the difference would have been huge. As it was, none of them could ever get close enough to 2xLift, so it didn't really matter.
Regardless, going into Worlds, I think TSM is looking good. They've shown they can do aggressive counter jungling a la M5. They've shown they can aggressively push and take towers a la Blaze. If you're a TSM fan, you should be worried about something completely out of left field that they've never seen before, because for pretty much everything else, it seems like they're ready/prepared.
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OddOne is more of a support jungler while Diamondprox is like a killer on wheels, they're style are very different. I never see OddOne carry his team, no matter what champion he picks. It doesn't mean he is weaker than diamond, but just completly different (even in his pick, I rarely see OddOne taking the likes of Lee Sin or Udyr in tourney and when he does use a jungler who can carry as shyvana, he doesn't use her to farm or to gank but to counter jungle and play objectives agressively).
Also the post above me is spot on.
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On September 04 2012 00:19 WhiteDog wrote:
OddOne is more of a support jungler while Diamondprox is like a killer on wheels, they're style are very different. I never see OddOne carry his team, no matter what champion he picks. It doesn't mean he is weaker than diamond, but just completly different (even in his pick, I rarely see OddOne taking the likes of Lee Sin or Udyr in tourney and when he does use a jungler who can carry as shyvana, he doesn't use her to farm or to gank but to counter jungle and play objectives agressively).
Also the post above me is spot on.
If TOO gets Noctune, things can get ugly.
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On September 04 2012 00:01 GeorgeForeman wrote:
My point is, jungle is a team effort. It's the same way when Curse decides to let Saint farm and take cs while their carries roam, etc. And you could tell in game 2 (I think?) of the 3rd place match, when Saint had 3x the farm of Alistar. In straight up fights, the difference was clear, and Curse was able to win. If they'd been a bit more patient and found a good engage, the difference would have been huge. As it was, none of them could ever get close enough to 2xLift, so it didn't really matter.
Jungle is a team effort yes. You need players who understand how important the jungle is for sure and back up the jungler.
But the decisions and the calls come from the jungler.
When you're playing a lane you have so much to focus on you can't really be thinking about buff timers and where the other jungler is. That's why having a smart jungler is so important. Regi these days gets pretty much told what he should play and that stops him from making dumb decisions of the past. He still has enormous skill just in other areas.
Just look at the Korean teams too. Azubu Blaze are the same. If you took out their mid and replaced it with Scarra they'd still win. Replace Helios with Hotshot and see how much they can win then ^^
tldr: Imo junglers are making the most difference at high level. Despite Mids always getting the attention.
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If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome.
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On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome.
Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram.
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Are there recommended games?
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On September 04 2012 01:18 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome. Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram.
That's just the difference between how players behave on and off the field. You expect professionalism while on the field and you hope for professionalism off the field. How much a player can get away with off the field depend on their level of charisma. If you were watching TI 2, you might remember the interview with Puppey and Dendi done by Purge. Dendi was just standing there staring at the camera. Is that professional? Of course not, but he had a teammate there to answer the questions and people just love Dendi in general because of his skill and personality.
On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional.
Like I said, Dendi's situation was saved by the fact that Puppey was there to answer the questions. If he did that without his teammate, I would consider staring at the camera and not answering an interviewer's questions worse than acting out some trash talk. Note: I don't think Dendi would have tried to pull that off if it was a solo interview so it's just hypothetical.
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Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional.
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On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional.
Because acting like an idiot and smacking your bare head WITH YOUR HELMET is so "professional." People are taking away from game antics too seriously.
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rofl you just reminded me of the time Gus Ferotte headbutted the goalpost for a touchdown celebration and knocked himself out, and had to sit out the next 4 games lolol
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On September 04 2012 04:15 Slusher wrote:
rofl you just reminded me of the time Gus Ferotte headbutted the goalpost for a touchdown celebration and knocked himself out, and had to sit out the next 4 games lolol
I forgot to mention the guy split his forehead open and had to get stitches.
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On September 04 2012 03:31 Nos- wrote:
Are there recommended games?
Dignitas vs CLG in semis were very good games to watch
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On September 04 2012 03:36 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 01:18 JackDino wrote:On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome. Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram. That's just the difference between how players behave on and off the field. You expect professionalism while on the field and you hope for professionalism off the field. How much a player can get away with off the field depend on their level of charisma. If you were watching TI 2, you might remember the interview with Puppey and Dendi done by Purge. Dendi was just standing there staring at the camera. Is that professional? Of course not, but he had a teammate there to answer the questions and people just love Dendi in general because of his skill and personality. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional. Like I said, Dendi's situation was saved by the fact that Puppey was there to answer the questions. If he did that without his teammate, I would consider staring at the camera and not answering an interviewer's questions worse than acting out some trash talk. Note: I don't think Dendi would have tried to pull that off if it was a solo interview so it's just hypothetical.
I absolutely loathe it when TSM trash talks other teams, not only do they put down the other team but they also put down the fans of said team. You shouldn't belittle people in any situation I think, even if it's to psych them out or pump up your fans. Also, it sets an example and the LoL community is already full of a bunch of BM people which I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of. The amount of "smd"'s and "shutupfag"'s I get after saying GL HF is disheartening. Treat others well.
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On September 04 2012 06:15 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:36 JBright wrote:On September 04 2012 01:18 JackDino wrote:On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome. Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram. That's just the difference between how players behave on and off the field. You expect professionalism while on the field and you hope for professionalism off the field. How much a player can get away with off the field depend on their level of charisma. If you were watching TI 2, you might remember the interview with Puppey and Dendi done by Purge. Dendi was just standing there staring at the camera. Is that professional? Of course not, but he had a teammate there to answer the questions and people just love Dendi in general because of his skill and personality. On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional. Like I said, Dendi's situation was saved by the fact that Puppey was there to answer the questions. If he did that without his teammate, I would consider staring at the camera and not answering an interviewer's questions worse than acting out some trash talk. Note: I don't think Dendi would have tried to pull that off if it was a solo interview so it's just hypothetical. I absolutely loathe it when TSM trash talks other teams, not only do they put down the other team but they also put down the fans of said team. You shouldn't belittle people in any situation I think, even if it's to psych them out or pump up your fans. Also, it sets an example and the LoL community is already full of a bunch of BM people which I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of. The amount of "smd"'s and "shutupfag"'s I get after saying GL HF is disheartening. Treat others well.
I'm ok with LoL players and teams talk shit about other players and teams. Some of the most exciting moments at PAX was the build up of particular matches because players shit talked another player or team in pre-game interviews.
I fucking hated how proper and polite most Brood War pros were. That shit's boring. If there were more players like Doublelift, Reginald, IWillDominate, and others who aren't afraid to shit talk a particular player or team the scene and matches would be way more exciting than it already is. It's a big part of the reason why I personally believe that LoL is a much better eSport to follow than any of the other big ones. (edit: I agree that BMers in regular pub play is annoying but you just have to ignore them, the pro LoL scene would be a lot more boring without all of the smack talk imo)
Being there in person was pretty cool. I have a lot more respect for Curse considering they were the only team I saw outside of the main LoL area. Maybe I'm just bad but I didn't see like anyone but Curse out on the street and at other booths and stuff. Saintvicious is actually a pretty cool guy irl too. I think in season 3 Curse will likely be my new favorite team after this event.
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On September 04 2012 06:15 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:36 JBright wrote:On September 04 2012 01:18 JackDino wrote:On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome. Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram. That's just the difference between how players behave on and off the field. You expect professionalism while on the field and you hope for professionalism off the field. How much a player can get away with off the field depend on their level of charisma. If you were watching TI 2, you might remember the interview with Puppey and Dendi done by Purge. Dendi was just standing there staring at the camera. Is that professional? Of course not, but he had a teammate there to answer the questions and people just love Dendi in general because of his skill and personality. On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional. Like I said, Dendi's situation was saved by the fact that Puppey was there to answer the questions. If he did that without his teammate, I would consider staring at the camera and not answering an interviewer's questions worse than acting out some trash talk. Note: I don't think Dendi would have tried to pull that off if it was a solo interview so it's just hypothetical. I absolutely loathe it when TSM trash talks other teams, not only do they put down the other team but they also put down the fans of said team. You shouldn't belittle people in any situation I think, even if it's to psych them out or pump up your fans. Also, it sets an example and the LoL community is already full of a bunch of BM people which I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of. The amount of "smd"'s and "shutupfag"'s I get after saying GL HF is disheartening. Treat others well.
dig and clg and curse all trash talked tsm just as much as tsm trash talked them
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On September 04 2012 07:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:15 ibreakurface wrote:On September 04 2012 03:36 JBright wrote:On September 04 2012 01:18 JackDino wrote:On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome. Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram. That's just the difference between how players behave on and off the field. You expect professionalism while on the field and you hope for professionalism off the field. How much a player can get away with off the field depend on their level of charisma. If you were watching TI 2, you might remember the interview with Puppey and Dendi done by Purge. Dendi was just standing there staring at the camera. Is that professional? Of course not, but he had a teammate there to answer the questions and people just love Dendi in general because of his skill and personality. On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional. Like I said, Dendi's situation was saved by the fact that Puppey was there to answer the questions. If he did that without his teammate, I would consider staring at the camera and not answering an interviewer's questions worse than acting out some trash talk. Note: I don't think Dendi would have tried to pull that off if it was a solo interview so it's just hypothetical. I absolutely loathe it when TSM trash talks other teams, not only do they put down the other team but they also put down the fans of said team. You shouldn't belittle people in any situation I think, even if it's to psych them out or pump up your fans. Also, it sets an example and the LoL community is already full of a bunch of BM people which I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of. The amount of "smd"'s and "shutupfag"'s I get after saying GL HF is disheartening. Treat others well. dig and clg and curse all trash talked tsm just as much as tsm trash talked them
ya ~.~ double standards op
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On September 04 2012 06:15 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:36 JBright wrote:On September 04 2012 01:18 JackDino wrote:On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome. Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram. That's just the difference between how players behave on and off the field. You expect professionalism while on the field and you hope for professionalism off the field. How much a player can get away with off the field depend on their level of charisma. If you were watching TI 2, you might remember the interview with Puppey and Dendi done by Purge. Dendi was just standing there staring at the camera. Is that professional? Of course not, but he had a teammate there to answer the questions and people just love Dendi in general because of his skill and personality. On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional. Like I said, Dendi's situation was saved by the fact that Puppey was there to answer the questions. If he did that without his teammate, I would consider staring at the camera and not answering an interviewer's questions worse than acting out some trash talk. Note: I don't think Dendi would have tried to pull that off if it was a solo interview so it's just hypothetical. I absolutely loathe it when TSM trash talks other teams, not only do they put down the other team but they also put down the fans of said team. You shouldn't belittle people in any situation I think, even if it's to psych them out or pump up your fans. Also, it sets an example and the LoL community is already full of a bunch of BM people which I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of. The amount of "smd"'s and "shutupfag"'s I get after saying GL HF is disheartening. Treat others well.
Every single sport has this. Look at the ESPN boards sometimes to see what kind of crap is spewed there by fans. Players also have been known to do pretty asshole/douchy/arrogant things plenty of times. I really don't know why video games should be held to standards above sports.
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On September 04 2012 08:26 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:15 ibreakurface wrote:On September 04 2012 03:36 JBright wrote:On September 04 2012 01:18 JackDino wrote:On September 04 2012 00:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If you see TSM as immature and douchey, (which I certainly do not) it should impress you even more that their coordination is so in sync. However immature you think they are, the exemplify teamwork and are all very close, which is much better than "professional" teams.
And also! We shouldn't model our etiquette standards after current standards of etiquette, because these are completely different atmospheres than MLB, WWE, NFl, etc. League of Legends is OUR game, not theirs, and we don't want to make it grow by joining most people, we want it to grow by most people joining US. THAT is why I think TSM is so awesome. Yeah, we want dyrus sleeping on his dumb pillow on stage, but pls no aram. That's just the difference between how players behave on and off the field. You expect professionalism while on the field and you hope for professionalism off the field. How much a player can get away with off the field depend on their level of charisma. If you were watching TI 2, you might remember the interview with Puppey and Dendi done by Purge. Dendi was just standing there staring at the camera. Is that professional? Of course not, but he had a teammate there to answer the questions and people just love Dendi in general because of his skill and personality. On September 04 2012 03:39 JackDino wrote:
Staring at a camera and acting like a moron stage are definitely the same thing. I'm sure when there's a football match and the players are entering the field the one guy coming in with a pillow and taking a nap is being professional. Like I said, Dendi's situation was saved by the fact that Puppey was there to answer the questions. If he did that without his teammate, I would consider staring at the camera and not answering an interviewer's questions worse than acting out some trash talk. Note: I don't think Dendi would have tried to pull that off if it was a solo interview so it's just hypothetical. I absolutely loathe it when TSM trash talks other teams, not only do they put down the other team but they also put down the fans of said team. You shouldn't belittle people in any situation I think, even if it's to psych them out or pump up your fans. Also, it sets an example and the LoL community is already full of a bunch of BM people which I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of. The amount of "smd"'s and "shutupfag"'s I get after saying GL HF is disheartening. Treat others well. Every single sport has this. Look at the ESPN boards sometimes to see what kind of crap is spewed there by fans. Players also have been known to do pretty asshole/douchy/arrogant things plenty of times. I really don't know why video games should be held to standards above sports.
The difference is they do it even after they win. It's immature and just looks bad. Every other team can talk shit all day but once they win they're classy. Case in point- HSGG after they beat curse was sympathetic to SV after all the shit between them. Regi, on the other hand, talks shit on the victory stage? what a joke, I hope they get stomped soon.
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I don't know about you guys but the trash talk before every game seem to be planned bits to hype up the games
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EPT
