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Day 1 Data
Day 2 Data
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
September 03 2012 01:37 GMT
#5921
Yep, as expected TSM won. When I said that TSM had this final yesterday, alot of people didn't agree with me. But really, others NA team just seems to play really bad once they face TSM esp in the final.
I am dissapointed with NA scene, TSM with nothing special dominate the scene for the last 6-8 months. I expect no NA team will reach the final four in the season 2 final.
Terran
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
September 03 2012 01:37 GMT
#5922
On September 03 2012 10:24 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 10:16 Mondeezy wrote:
On September 03 2012 09:35 Parnage wrote:
On September 03 2012 09:12 Mondeezy wrote:
On September 03 2012 08:53 Mufaa wrote:
I can't stand TSM. They definitely deserved to win but they're so unappreciative and cocky it makes it impossible for me to want them to do well. Although I guess that's an issue with the league of legends community as a whole.


I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, they don't realize they are setting a bad example for the rest of the community to follow, and this is most likely why none of the other competitive games (SC2, D2) take us seriously.


Ignoring the fact that they take us seriously enough to dislike us and have major community figures take potshots at us, it should be noted that some light trash talking(and that's what it is btw) is no more bad then any others and is about the same as Sc2's in manner for the most part. Which is leagues above most other scenes. Please take a closer look at the FPS, Dota, and the fighting.

While League should hold itself to a high standard nothing has really been overtly offensive and when it does happen it tends to be frowned on.


I guess it's just me then, but TSM comes off as immature and douchey - two traits that shouldn't shine on a championship team. When I watch them stream and say baylife or downtalk their team every other sentence, it just reinforces the idea in my head that these guys shouldn't be an icon for the community. If you look at the recent UFC event, even though Sonnen talked heaps of shit to Silva, Silva dominated him, then shook his hand after the match and showed him respect. That, in my opinion, is how a champion should behave. Granted, it's not only TSM that does this, but they seem to be the poster boys for that type of attitude, and unfortunately a lot of the community imitates this sort of behavior.

But hey, maybe I'm just a TSM hater, I don't know. I just wish they would set a better example so that E-sports could be taken a bit more seriously.

I mean, I generally agree, but I don't think they talk any more/less shit than any other team. They just happen to be the only ones that win anything in NA.

And I get where people can say Regi comes off as a douche, and apparently TONS of people have issues with Dyrus that just escape me, but I don't get a "douchebag" vibe from any of the other members. Chaox is cocky, but show me an athlete pro athlete who's not.


Having followed every member of every pro-teams twitter, I think that TSM is far less douchey then some.
For example, Chauster bashes TSM at least twice every week in his AMA, and everyone still has somewhat of a hardon for him lol. Apparently it's just him "being honest", but imo it's just appealing to TSM haters with confirmation bias.

But then again, maybe if they were more douchey they would get more fans, sort of like an "Idra effect" so to speak where people think that being an asshole is cool.

Either way, I'm probably not rooting for any NA teams, they honestly just don't seem as talented or consistent. If I had to predict S2 results right now I'd say that it'd be M5 -> Azubu -> TSM -> CLG.NA -> CLG.EU -> Dig. WE/iG etc don't seem as strong as people say, and neither does CLG.EU as indicated by SK 2-0ing them. I'm probably overestimating TSM and CLG.NA too, but tbh I've been proven time and time again that my opinions of the pro scene are wrong.
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
Jaso
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2147 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 01:40:23
September 03 2012 01:39 GMT
#5923
The thing is that Regi and Dyrus have no clue how to present themselves in public.

edit: also, there's no way CLG.EU is going to finish that low in the rankings for S2 finals.
derp
Goragoth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
New Zealand1065 Posts
September 03 2012 01:43 GMT
#5924
Individually I like all of TSM except for Reginald but I do hope they grow up as a team a little going into season 3. The laugh/taunt spam by Dyrus during the finals was just downright unprofessional and annoying and I believe they are the only major team without a team uniform, which is kind of sad to see when they are the top NA team and frequently up on stage in front of the camera. Image is important if e-sports is to grow going into the future.
Creator of LoLTool.
maliceee
Profile Joined August 2010
United States634 Posts
September 03 2012 01:45 GMT
#5925
On September 03 2012 10:37 tobi9999 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 10:24 GeorgeForeman wrote:
On September 03 2012 10:16 Mondeezy wrote:
On September 03 2012 09:35 Parnage wrote:
On September 03 2012 09:12 Mondeezy wrote:
On September 03 2012 08:53 Mufaa wrote:
I can't stand TSM. They definitely deserved to win but they're so unappreciative and cocky it makes it impossible for me to want them to do well. Although I guess that's an issue with the league of legends community as a whole.


I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, they don't realize they are setting a bad example for the rest of the community to follow, and this is most likely why none of the other competitive games (SC2, D2) take us seriously.


Ignoring the fact that they take us seriously enough to dislike us and have major community figures take potshots at us, it should be noted that some light trash talking(and that's what it is btw) is no more bad then any others and is about the same as Sc2's in manner for the most part. Which is leagues above most other scenes. Please take a closer look at the FPS, Dota, and the fighting.

While League should hold itself to a high standard nothing has really been overtly offensive and when it does happen it tends to be frowned on.


I guess it's just me then, but TSM comes off as immature and douchey - two traits that shouldn't shine on a championship team. When I watch them stream and say baylife or downtalk their team every other sentence, it just reinforces the idea in my head that these guys shouldn't be an icon for the community. If you look at the recent UFC event, even though Sonnen talked heaps of shit to Silva, Silva dominated him, then shook his hand after the match and showed him respect. That, in my opinion, is how a champion should behave. Granted, it's not only TSM that does this, but they seem to be the poster boys for that type of attitude, and unfortunately a lot of the community imitates this sort of behavior.

But hey, maybe I'm just a TSM hater, I don't know. I just wish they would set a better example so that E-sports could be taken a bit more seriously.

I mean, I generally agree, but I don't think they talk any more/less shit than any other team. They just happen to be the only ones that win anything in NA.

And I get where people can say Regi comes off as a douche, and apparently TONS of people have issues with Dyrus that just escape me, but I don't get a "douchebag" vibe from any of the other members. Chaox is cocky, but show me an athlete pro athlete who's not.


Having followed every member of every pro-teams twitter, I think that TSM is far less douchey then some.
For example, Chauster bashes TSM at least twice every week in his AMA, and everyone still has somewhat of a hardon for him lol. Apparently it's just him "being honest", but imo it's just appealing to TSM haters with confirmation bias.

But then again, maybe if they were more douchey they would get more fans, sort of like an "Idra effect" so to speak where people think that being an asshole is cool.

Either way, I'm probably not rooting for any NA teams, they honestly just don't seem as talented or consistent. If I had to predict S2 results right now I'd say that it'd be M5 -> Azubu -> TSM -> CLG.NA -> CLG.EU -> Dig. WE/iG etc don't seem as strong as people say, and neither does CLG.EU as indicated by SK 2-0ing them. I'm probably overestimating TSM and CLG.NA too, but tbh I've been proven time and time again that my opinions of the pro scene are wrong.


chauster also at least twice a week talks about how good TSM is. Whether it's xspecial and chaox being the bot lane he thinks can beat he and DL, Regi being the best AP laner in NA, or Dyrus being the most versatile top lane. Regi doesn't do anything like that and just comes across as a straight douchebag. Chaox does the same thing. Xspecial fluctuates, he's more like Chauster. Dyrus and Oddone are pretty chill, but it doens't balance out the two jerks.
scarper65
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1560 Posts
September 03 2012 01:48 GMT
#5926
On September 03 2012 10:43 Goragoth wrote:
Individually I like all of TSM except for Reginald but I do hope they grow up as a team a little going into season 3. The laugh/taunt spam by Dyrus during the finals was just downright unprofessional and annoying and I believe they are the only major team without a team uniform, which is kind of sad to see when they are the top NA team and frequently up on stage in front of the camera. Image is important if e-sports is to grow going into the future.

I'm sure team uniforms are going to be a very important factor in the growth of e-sports.
GeorgeForeman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States1746 Posts
September 03 2012 01:52 GMT
#5927
On September 03 2012 10:43 Goragoth wrote:
Individually I like all of TSM except for Reginald but I do hope they grow up as a team a little going into season 3. The laugh/taunt spam by Dyrus during the finals was just downright unprofessional and annoying and I believe they are the only major team without a team uniform, which is kind of sad to see when they are the top NA team and frequently up on stage in front of the camera. Image is important if e-sports is to grow going into the future.

You're joking right? You're ePissed because they hit the "l" button? I can't fathom how that could bother you as a spectator. Do you shit bricks when SC2 pros have their units dance in the opponents base after a victory? There's plenty of things to criticize as "unprofessional" in the LoL scene if that's what you want to do, but laugh/taunt spamming? wtf?
like a school bus through a bunch of kids
drwiggl3s
Profile Joined May 2012
Canada167 Posts
September 03 2012 01:55 GMT
#5928
^
I think they don't keep a team uniform because they want to sell their t-shirts through their website. They have sponsors like twitch and recently razer, but they have largely been profitable through their own management (Reginald and dan dihn) through their website, youtube, streams etc. If you see in the finals today only chaox wore a razer hoodie. It would be cool though for them to get uniforms and open with them in the finals this october though.
hi
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 01:57:20
September 03 2012 01:55 GMT
#5929
On September 03 2012 10:43 Goragoth wrote:
Individually I like all of TSM except for Reginald but I do hope they grow up as a team a little going into season 3. The laugh/taunt spam by Dyrus during the finals was just downright unprofessional and annoying and I believe they are the only major team without a team uniform, which is kind of sad to see when they are the top NA team and frequently up on stage in front of the camera. Image is important if e-sports is to grow going into the future.


Manner MULES, Pylon hearts, Nuclear strikes, Infested command centers, Scouts, Proxy TownHalls(be it CC or Nexus), Motherships at one point, Dancing after winning a battle. These things they happen and are not nearly as big of a deal as you think they are.

As far as a uniform, I might of missed one but was not TSM all wearing TSM shirts?


Also feel free to youtube Firebathero's aftergame ceremonies now that's some real showboating.
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
September 03 2012 01:58 GMT
#5930
Gone but not forgotten, TRM pink!
Jaso
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2147 Posts
September 03 2012 01:59 GMT
#5931
On September 03 2012 10:52 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 10:43 Goragoth wrote:
Individually I like all of TSM except for Reginald but I do hope they grow up as a team a little going into season 3. The laugh/taunt spam by Dyrus during the finals was just downright unprofessional and annoying and I believe they are the only major team without a team uniform, which is kind of sad to see when they are the top NA team and frequently up on stage in front of the camera. Image is important if e-sports is to grow going into the future.

You're joking right? You're ePissed because they hit the "l" button? I can't fathom how that could bother you as a spectator. Do you shit bricks when SC2 pros have their units dance in the opponents base after a victory? There's plenty of things to criticize as "unprofessional" in the LoL scene if that's what you want to do, but laugh/taunt spamming? wtf?


It was pretty fucking annoying to me. It wasn't just the animation, it was the noise. Probes dancing around don't make noise.
derp
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
September 03 2012 02:09 GMT
#5932
I wonder if people on European LoL forums bitch as much about M5 (since aren't they also supposed to be 'arrogant and douchy'?) as people here are about TSM.
Never Knows Best.
kuntafame
Profile Joined May 2012
United States43 Posts
September 03 2012 02:11 GMT
#5933
I think shit talk is just part of sports. It's not like the players don't acknowledge other players skill levels.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
September 03 2012 02:13 GMT
#5934
On September 03 2012 11:09 Slaughter wrote:
I wonder if people on European LoL forums bitch as much about M5 (since aren't they also supposed to be 'arrogant and douchy'?) as people here are about TSM.

TL is my "european LoL forum", so idunnolol.

imo, only person on M5 with a slight attitude problem is gosupepper, but then again, listen to your average NA pro talk, and he's not really worse than that.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Goragoth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
New Zealand1065 Posts
September 03 2012 02:14 GMT
#5935
On September 03 2012 10:52 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 10:43 Goragoth wrote:
Individually I like all of TSM except for Reginald but I do hope they grow up as a team a little going into season 3. The laugh/taunt spam by Dyrus during the finals was just downright unprofessional and annoying and I believe they are the only major team without a team uniform, which is kind of sad to see when they are the top NA team and frequently up on stage in front of the camera. Image is important if e-sports is to grow going into the future.

You're joking right? You're ePissed because they hit the "l" button? I can't fathom how that could bother you as a spectator. Do you shit bricks when SC2 pros have their units dance in the opponents base after a victory? There's plenty of things to criticize as "unprofessional" in the LoL scene if that's what you want to do, but laugh/taunt spamming? wtf?

I found it annoying and at one point it was loud enough to make it difficult to understand the casters. Dunno, maybe I'm just a grumpy old man though. It's just a minor nitpick though, certainly nothing like the ARAM stunt that Curse/Dignitas pulled at MLG.

On September 03 2012 10:55 Parnage wrote:
Also feel free to youtube Firebathero's aftergame ceremonies now that's some real showboating.

Oh I remember Firebathero's antics very well and I hated them then too. Can't fathom that some people actually found it entertaining.

On September 03 2012 10:55 drwiggl3s wrote:
^
I think they don't keep a team uniform because they want to sell their t-shirts through their website. They have sponsors like twitch and recently razer, but they have largely been profitable through their own management (Reginald and dan dihn) through their website, youtube, streams etc. If you see in the finals today only chaox wore a razer hoodie. It would be cool though for them to get uniforms and open with them in the finals this october though.

Ah, I didn't realize that they sell the shirts, that makes a lot of sense then.
Creator of LoLTool.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
September 03 2012 02:18 GMT
#5936
In the end people love polarizing figures like that. Even in real sports you have those types of personalities and you either love them or love to hate them.
Never Knows Best.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 02:24:26
September 03 2012 02:24 GMT
#5937
On September 03 2012 09:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 09:17 Scip wrote:
On September 03 2012 08:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think this tourney proves what i said about skarner..

Picking Skarner INTO Shen is pretty stupid though. Shen is like the strongest anti-midgame aggresion champion in the game. If Shen is banned or you have him on your side then that's different.


thats not the direct cause of why skarner got screwed over early though, it's the skarner + ryze combo vs shyv + morg, skarner is more vulnerable to counterjungling than most and with a morg who has blue lv1 and just keeps pushing he cant contest anything.

Ryze is exceptionally bad at pushing though. Skarner wouldn't have nearly that many problems if they picked any of the other popular middle lanes (gragas, orianna). It's not like picking any of those mids would worsen the teamcomp in any significant way tbh.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
GeorgeForeman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States1746 Posts
September 03 2012 02:25 GMT
#5938
Look, if game sounds are drowning out the casters, that's a production problem. Laughs/taunts don't drown out game sounds in game, so I'm not sure why they would on a broadcast.
like a school bus through a bunch of kids
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
September 03 2012 02:26 GMT
#5939
On September 03 2012 11:24 Scip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 09:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On September 03 2012 09:17 Scip wrote:
On September 03 2012 08:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think this tourney proves what i said about skarner..

Picking Skarner INTO Shen is pretty stupid though. Shen is like the strongest anti-midgame aggresion champion in the game. If Shen is banned or you have him on your side then that's different.


thats not the direct cause of why skarner got screwed over early though, it's the skarner + ryze combo vs shyv + morg, skarner is more vulnerable to counterjungling than most and with a morg who has blue lv1 and just keeps pushing he cant contest anything.

Ryze is exceptionally bad at pushing though. Skarner wouldn't have nearly that many problems if they picked any of the other popular middle lanes (gragas, orianna). It's not like picking any of those mids would worsen the teamcomp in any significant way tbh.


I agree but you could also make the case that nunu would've screwed with skarner even harder, it's no secret skarner is indeed vulnerable to counterjungling and early aggression, he is best counterganking.
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
September 03 2012 02:32 GMT
#5940
On September 03 2012 11:26 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 11:24 Scip wrote:
On September 03 2012 09:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On September 03 2012 09:17 Scip wrote:
On September 03 2012 08:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think this tourney proves what i said about skarner..

Picking Skarner INTO Shen is pretty stupid though. Shen is like the strongest anti-midgame aggresion champion in the game. If Shen is banned or you have him on your side then that's different.


thats not the direct cause of why skarner got screwed over early though, it's the skarner + ryze combo vs shyv + morg, skarner is more vulnerable to counterjungling than most and with a morg who has blue lv1 and just keeps pushing he cant contest anything.

Ryze is exceptionally bad at pushing though. Skarner wouldn't have nearly that many problems if they picked any of the other popular middle lanes (gragas, orianna). It's not like picking any of those mids would worsen the teamcomp in any significant way tbh.


I agree but you could also make the case that nunu would've screwed with skarner even harder, it's no secret skarner is indeed vulnerable to counterjungling and early aggression, he is best counterganking.


thats just as equally the AP pick at work though. its no secret that morg is a better pusher, ganker, and counterganker than ryze - if she is allowed to push and given heavier early jungle support (early blue) as she was of course her strength in the jungle will be greater than ryze's and thus her own jungler's strength in the enemy jungle
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