• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:40
CEST 02:40
KST 09:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup4StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)66Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2315
StarCraft 2
General
Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Bot on ladder BW General Discussion BSL Season 23
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9208 users

[MLG] Spring Championship 2012 - Page 162

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 160 161 162 163 Next
Haasts
Profile Joined October 2011
New Zealand4445 Posts
June 11 2012 08:30 GMT
#3221
Thanks for all the LR work on the finals, sounds about as exciting as it could have been with the full six matches. Hopefully there'll be some "best plays" VoD or something so I can see that Malphite ult into the baron pit.

For those that saw a decent amount of the matches, what's worth hunting down? I really enjoyed xPeke's games on Galio & AP Janna, and I'd like to see Orb's win over TSM.Evo.
PaniaoftheReef in Path of Exile TotA SSF SC // Lovelin fanclub // GreenTea #1
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 11 2012 08:54 GMT
#3222
On June 11 2012 17:30 Haasts wrote:
Thanks for all the LR work on the finals, sounds about as exciting as it could have been with the full six matches. Hopefully there'll be some "best plays" VoD or something so I can see that Malphite ult into the baron pit.

For those that saw a decent amount of the matches, what's worth hunting down? I really enjoyed xPeke's games on Galio & AP Janna, and I'd like to see Orb's win over TSM.Evo.

If you want to watch good malphite (something that's not really in the current meta that often), look at clg.na's games with hazzard as malphite. seems to be really strong counter against jax.

I forgot what game it was in the match, but it was clg vs dig, dlift did abnormal urgot build, but put it in pretty good effect.

as far as unique interesting games those are the only ones i could think of. there wasn't too many mindblowing comps, just really solid play over all.

also, why dlift no play ez more? 19-2 speaks for itself.
liftlift > tsm
Haasts
Profile Joined October 2011
New Zealand4445 Posts
June 11 2012 09:09 GMT
#3223
On June 11 2012 17:54 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 17:30 Haasts wrote:
Thanks for all the LR work on the finals, sounds about as exciting as it could have been with the full six matches. Hopefully there'll be some "best plays" VoD or something so I can see that Malphite ult into the baron pit.

For those that saw a decent amount of the matches, what's worth hunting down? I really enjoyed xPeke's games on Galio & AP Janna, and I'd like to see Orb's win over TSM.Evo.


I forgot what game it was in the match, but it was clg vs dig, dlift did abnormal urgot build, but put it in pretty good effect.


I think I caught that game - I think his Urgot went Shurelya's Reverie/Ionian Boots of Lucidity/Bloodthirster rather than Bruta/Glacial? Did a lot of aggressive engaging by swapping someone behind a Jijinivia wall, especially a very unhappy Smite/Exhaust Mundo.
PaniaoftheReef in Path of Exile TotA SSF SC // Lovelin fanclub // GreenTea #1
fishinguy
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation798 Posts
June 11 2012 09:53 GMT
#3224
Looking through the stats, can anyone explain what happened to these popular junglers -

Lee Sin
Shyvana
Udyr

Why did they fall off so quickly? Seems like they were replaced by naut, noc and mundo.
Kavas
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia3421 Posts
June 11 2012 10:14 GMT
#3225
On June 11 2012 18:53 fishinguy wrote:
Looking through the stats, can anyone explain what happened to these popular junglers -

Lee Sin
Shyvana
Udyr

Why did they fall off so quickly? Seems like they were replaced by naut, noc and mundo.

Lee Sin needs to snowball early or fall off. Not very tanky therefore not suitable for all comps and if you build tank then your damage is 0.
Shyvana still see play but the pro concensus is Mundo does what she does, has a slightly weaker mid-game but completely outscales her late.
Udyr - Jack of all trades, master of none.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-11 10:40:50
June 11 2012 10:40 GMT
#3226
oh its a rerun
i just got spoiled
amazing
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 11 2012 10:42 GMT
#3227
Lee Sin is risky, needs to snow ball hard. with current meta of super hard warding, it's pretty rare for lee sin to be that snowbally.

Shyvanna's nerfs hurt pretty hard, Mundo does everything she does, except with poke, and better durability.

Udyr's jungle is just really meh, he has no hard gap closers, and his only CC requires getting into melee range w.o any hard engage. also single target cc that bear form offers really blows balls in late games (naut has hook, slow, and snare. Noc has hard gap closer with ulti, along w/ soft gap closer w/ his Q. mundo has poke/gap closer on his Q, and in combination with his R and CC reduction, he's pretty much got a hard gap closer).

liftlift > tsm
triangle
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3803 Posts
June 11 2012 11:17 GMT
#3228
Are the interviews up anywhere?
Also known as waterfall / w4terfall
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
June 11 2012 12:43 GMT
#3229
On June 11 2012 15:43 tobi9999 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 15:33 Alzadar wrote:
On June 11 2012 15:24 Kavas wrote:
On June 11 2012 15:09 StUfF wrote:
Karthus didn't just farm tho, Regi was actively pressuring Hazzard and came out with a fairly large cs advantage.

Difference when one guy gets blue buff and the other doesn't.
On June 11 2012 15:13 Alzadar wrote:
On June 11 2012 15:05 Kavas wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:43 Alzadar wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:41 StUfF wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:30 Alzadar wrote:
Is Dyrus' Vladimir that scary that it justifies leaving Reginald Karthus open every single game?


Hazzard probably didn't have the practice/champion selection to play vs Vlad.
Though Karthus pretty much outfarmed JiJi, and HSGG couldn't help mid lane at all - CLG has always been bad at banning/picking, especially switching it up or adapting to champs mid series (see refusal to ban maokai,lulu,vlad in previous tournaments).


He mains top lane and doesn't have any practice against Vladimir?

I mean, I'm pretty sure Nidalee (which I got the impression is his main top) crushes Vladimir. Although I would have thought Nidalee crushes Karthus too...

On June 11 2012 14:38 Owned Noob wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:30 Alzadar wrote:
Is Dyrus' Vladimir that scary that it justifies leaving Reginald Karthus open every single game?

i personally dont believe its regis karth thats scary, but the combo with the kayle and noc. those noc karth ganks bot pretty much won them the tourney


I agree, but Karthus is what brings the combo together I think. No other mid (except TF) offers the same presence that Karthus does.


Practice against competitive vladimir and solo-Q vlad is different. An interesting fact is Voyboy does decent vlad in solo Q but always die 1 v 1 as vlad in scrims. So you really need to find a good, competitive vlad to practice with.

Nidalee can't do anything to prevent Karthus from farming. no idea why people think nidalee beats karthus.


How do you figure? Nidalee auto attacks will harass him a bit early on, and then once she has cougar I feel she has massive kill threat on Karthus. He can't reliably land Qs against Nidealee leap, E is no damage early game, and Nidalee can easily jump out + heal herself after killing him. Karthus' only redeeming quality in the match-up is Wall of Pain, but with Nidalee being somewhat slow-immune and the 18 sec CD on Wall, it's not much.

Like there were a few times where Nidalee had the river warded and Karthus was well past the middle of lane with sub 200 mana. All-in his ass! Nidalee can easily kill Karthus and get out safely in that scenario, he was playing incredibly passive it seemed. Nidalee spent a lot of time sitting back, farming under tower and being hit by free Qs.

Nidalee can't auto attack harass because Karthus Q has larger range and therefore if he will have to eat Q and creep damage in return and get outtraded. By level 6 a Q on a 1 on 1 situation easily does over 100 damage, coupled with exhaust and WoP you will be slowed like crazy.

By the time nidalee is 6 she also has to beware of nocturne ulti and situations of 2 v 1; ward doesn't help against nocturne unless they're deep.

Let's not forget Regi got FB on nidalee and he had to miss cs top because he had to help Hotshot against the Red invade.


Nidalee really doesn't need blue buff, that wouldn't really be a factor.

I think you underestimate how hard it is to land Lay Waste without a slow, especially against Nidalee, who is blindingly fast when juking in and out of the lane bushes. Did you watch Game 2? Nidalee has no fear of creep aggro.

Karthus did have a few things going for him early game, but I think the match-up should be lopsided enough for it not to matter. On top of it all Nocturne was most frequently bottom lane, leaving Nidalee free to go deep without fear of a gank.

I guess arguing won't make CLG win, but I really feel that with the Noctune/Karthus combo shuttng down bottom lane and Kassadin being pretty countered mid lane by Kayle, Nidalee really needed to milk every advantage she could top lane, but she didn't even break even. An unfortunate end to a very well played tournament by Hazzard.


You try shutting down Karthus who can just walk up to you and kill you when he has exhaust up. AD Nidalee isn't meant to do well, or even break even against casters. AD Nidalee is just there to completely crap on melee bruisers who can't deal with cougar form and push hard against champions with bad wave clear. If Hazzard tried to bully Regi post-6, he probably would've just been exhausted and killed. If Hazzard tried to do anything at all to Reginald pre-6 he would've instantly lost the lane since Reginald was pushing hard. He didn't get many creep kills as it was already.

This is the key point. Made even stronger when you realise Nida was taking ARMOR items.
The reason why the strat worked so well for TSM is that Karthus and Kayle are different damage types. If you don't take armor vs Kayle you get rocked. This put Nida in a really difficult situation. She took dorans shield first to help vs Kayle, only to be faced with Karthus. They tried to swap it round but TSM was having none of it. It was a very intelligent strategy from TSM and one I expect we will see lots of in the future.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
StUfF
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1437 Posts
June 11 2012 13:43 GMT
#3230
On June 11 2012 21:43 Klive5ive wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 15:43 tobi9999 wrote:
On June 11 2012 15:33 Alzadar wrote:
On June 11 2012 15:24 Kavas wrote:
On June 11 2012 15:09 StUfF wrote:
Karthus didn't just farm tho, Regi was actively pressuring Hazzard and came out with a fairly large cs advantage.

Difference when one guy gets blue buff and the other doesn't.
On June 11 2012 15:13 Alzadar wrote:
On June 11 2012 15:05 Kavas wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:43 Alzadar wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:41 StUfF wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:30 Alzadar wrote:
Is Dyrus' Vladimir that scary that it justifies leaving Reginald Karthus open every single game?


Hazzard probably didn't have the practice/champion selection to play vs Vlad.
Though Karthus pretty much outfarmed JiJi, and HSGG couldn't help mid lane at all - CLG has always been bad at banning/picking, especially switching it up or adapting to champs mid series (see refusal to ban maokai,lulu,vlad in previous tournaments).


He mains top lane and doesn't have any practice against Vladimir?

I mean, I'm pretty sure Nidalee (which I got the impression is his main top) crushes Vladimir. Although I would have thought Nidalee crushes Karthus too...

On June 11 2012 14:38 Owned Noob wrote:
On June 11 2012 14:30 Alzadar wrote:
Is Dyrus' Vladimir that scary that it justifies leaving Reginald Karthus open every single game?

i personally dont believe its regis karth thats scary, but the combo with the kayle and noc. those noc karth ganks bot pretty much won them the tourney


I agree, but Karthus is what brings the combo together I think. No other mid (except TF) offers the same presence that Karthus does.


Practice against competitive vladimir and solo-Q vlad is different. An interesting fact is Voyboy does decent vlad in solo Q but always die 1 v 1 as vlad in scrims. So you really need to find a good, competitive vlad to practice with.

Nidalee can't do anything to prevent Karthus from farming. no idea why people think nidalee beats karthus.


How do you figure? Nidalee auto attacks will harass him a bit early on, and then once she has cougar I feel she has massive kill threat on Karthus. He can't reliably land Qs against Nidealee leap, E is no damage early game, and Nidalee can easily jump out + heal herself after killing him. Karthus' only redeeming quality in the match-up is Wall of Pain, but with Nidalee being somewhat slow-immune and the 18 sec CD on Wall, it's not much.

Like there were a few times where Nidalee had the river warded and Karthus was well past the middle of lane with sub 200 mana. All-in his ass! Nidalee can easily kill Karthus and get out safely in that scenario, he was playing incredibly passive it seemed. Nidalee spent a lot of time sitting back, farming under tower and being hit by free Qs.

Nidalee can't auto attack harass because Karthus Q has larger range and therefore if he will have to eat Q and creep damage in return and get outtraded. By level 6 a Q on a 1 on 1 situation easily does over 100 damage, coupled with exhaust and WoP you will be slowed like crazy.

By the time nidalee is 6 she also has to beware of nocturne ulti and situations of 2 v 1; ward doesn't help against nocturne unless they're deep.

Let's not forget Regi got FB on nidalee and he had to miss cs top because he had to help Hotshot against the Red invade.


Nidalee really doesn't need blue buff, that wouldn't really be a factor.

I think you underestimate how hard it is to land Lay Waste without a slow, especially against Nidalee, who is blindingly fast when juking in and out of the lane bushes. Did you watch Game 2? Nidalee has no fear of creep aggro.

Karthus did have a few things going for him early game, but I think the match-up should be lopsided enough for it not to matter. On top of it all Nocturne was most frequently bottom lane, leaving Nidalee free to go deep without fear of a gank.

I guess arguing won't make CLG win, but I really feel that with the Noctune/Karthus combo shuttng down bottom lane and Kassadin being pretty countered mid lane by Kayle, Nidalee really needed to milk every advantage she could top lane, but she didn't even break even. An unfortunate end to a very well played tournament by Hazzard.


You try shutting down Karthus who can just walk up to you and kill you when he has exhaust up. AD Nidalee isn't meant to do well, or even break even against casters. AD Nidalee is just there to completely crap on melee bruisers who can't deal with cougar form and push hard against champions with bad wave clear. If Hazzard tried to bully Regi post-6, he probably would've just been exhausted and killed. If Hazzard tried to do anything at all to Reginald pre-6 he would've instantly lost the lane since Reginald was pushing hard. He didn't get many creep kills as it was already.

This is the key point. Made even stronger when you realise Nida was taking ARMOR items.
The reason why the strat worked so well for TSM is that Karthus and Kayle are different damage types. If you don't take armor vs Kayle you get rocked. This put Nida in a really difficult situation. She took dorans shield first to help vs Kayle, only to be faced with Karthus. They tried to swap it round but TSM was having none of it. It was a very intelligent strategy from TSM and one I expect we will see lots of in the future.


I think aggressive top Karthus only worked because of HotShotGG. He got heavily counterjungled early and then tried to fight Nocturne at their blue at level 1 , he had to bluepill with only killing red lizard I think? Karthus got FB off nidalee at 2 minutes or something so he was very strong lvl 1 with almost no chance to be ganked (not that HSGG even tried).


GeorgeForeman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States1746 Posts
June 11 2012 15:42 GMT
#3231
Interestingly, Graves, Corki, Kog, and Ashe ALL had sub-50% winning percentages for this tournament. Meanwhile, Ez and Trist really shown, with a .727 winrate on Ez (11 games) and .667 winrate on Trist (9 games). Does this mean teams need to shift their mindset about AD carries?
like a school bus through a bunch of kids
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
June 11 2012 15:49 GMT
#3232
On June 12 2012 00:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Interestingly, Graves, Corki, Kog, and Ashe ALL had sub-50% winning percentages for this tournament. Meanwhile, Ez and Trist really shown, with a .727 winrate on Ez (11 games) and .667 winrate on Trist (9 games). Does this mean teams need to shift their mindset about AD carries?

Correlation and causality are two different things. I'm mostly of the opinion that the ranged AD you select is ultimately the least important role decision on your entire team.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 11 2012 17:59 GMT
#3233
On June 12 2012 00:49 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 00:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Interestingly, Graves, Corki, Kog, and Ashe ALL had sub-50% winning percentages for this tournament. Meanwhile, Ez and Trist really shown, with a .727 winrate on Ez (11 games) and .667 winrate on Trist (9 games). Does this mean teams need to shift their mindset about AD carries?

Correlation and causality are two different things. I'm mostly of the opinion that the ranged AD you select is ultimately the least important role decision on your entire team.

Unless it's Urgot.

As far as trist and ez go, not enough data from this tournament, but if I was to guess as to why there was such a high winrate, it would have to do w/ graves being short ranged.
liftlift > tsm
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
June 11 2012 18:01 GMT
#3234
On June 12 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 00:49 Mogwai wrote:
On June 12 2012 00:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Interestingly, Graves, Corki, Kog, and Ashe ALL had sub-50% winning percentages for this tournament. Meanwhile, Ez and Trist really shown, with a .727 winrate on Ez (11 games) and .667 winrate on Trist (9 games). Does this mean teams need to shift their mindset about AD carries?

Correlation and causality are two different things. I'm mostly of the opinion that the ranged AD you select is ultimately the least important role decision on your entire team.

Unless it's Urgot.

As far as trist and ez go, not enough data from this tournament, but if I was to guess as to why there was such a high winrate, it would have to do w/ graves being short ranged.

The sample size is way too small to take any information from.
The only thing that you can say is that lots of AD carries are being selected, and that's a really good thing.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
June 11 2012 18:01 GMT
#3235
I heard people base the assessment of champs on a single factor rather than the million that are actually present.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-11 18:16:32
June 11 2012 18:11 GMT
#3236
On June 12 2012 00:49 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 00:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Interestingly, Graves, Corki, Kog, and Ashe ALL had sub-50% winning percentages for this tournament. Meanwhile, Ez and Trist really shown, with a .727 winrate on Ez (11 games) and .667 winrate on Trist (9 games). Does this mean teams need to shift their mindset about AD carries?

Correlation and causality are two different things. I'm mostly of the opinion that the ranged AD you select is ultimately the least important role decision on your entire team.


All it really means is something everyone already knew, every single ranged AD carry is viable. I don't think I'd credit Ez/Trist doing well to anything in particular but I think it's very likely that at least part of it is because they're underplayed and thus people very likely underestimate them or don't anticipate them to do specific things. Whereas right now every competitive player has what Graves or Kog or Corki does very fresh in their mind considering that those three have been really viable and highly played for months.

Also, on the subject of AD carries, after seeing him do phenomenal at MLG and IPL4 while doing really solid at Korea The Champions I am now fully willing to say that Doublelift/Chauster are easily the best AD/support combo in NA. For awhile I felt like their lane phase was the best but that Chaox and others had stronger mid/late games than DL. However after three very impressive tournament showings in a row I can't deny it anymore. Doublelift is no longer a weak AD during mid/late game, he's a monster. He and Chauster are carrying CLG atm in my opinion.

+ Show Spoiler +
edit: Just to clarify, by 'carrying' I'm just using hyperbole to say that those two are by far the most consistent and best players CLGna has right now. jiji is really solid too. But I don't think we've seen enough of CLG Voyboy yet to know how well he's gonna adapt to his new team and while Hotshot looked incredible and surprised everyone in the jungle one good tournament isn't concrete proof that he's a good jungler imo. Doublelift having a good game is synonymous with CLG winning games and it has been that way ever since IPL4.
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2475 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-11 18:35:47
June 11 2012 18:35 GMT
#3237
On June 11 2012 18:53 fishinguy wrote:
Looking through the stats, can anyone explain what happened to these popular junglers -

Lee Sin
Shyvana
Udyr

Why did they fall off so quickly? Seems like they were replaced by naut, noc and mundo.


It's because M5 wasn't there so Lee Sin couldn't dominate. (Both Darien and Diamondprox are gods on Lee sin)

Also I swear it's usually only Saint Vicous that plays Shyvana and Udyr. Usually it's all nocturnes and mundos.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
June 11 2012 18:38 GMT
#3238
On June 12 2012 00:49 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 00:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Interestingly, Graves, Corki, Kog, and Ashe ALL had sub-50% winning percentages for this tournament. Meanwhile, Ez and Trist really shown, with a .727 winrate on Ez (11 games) and .667 winrate on Trist (9 games). Does this mean teams need to shift their mindset about AD carries?

Correlation and causality are two different things. I'm mostly of the opinion that the ranged AD you select is ultimately the least important role decision on your entire team.

The most important factor for choosing your AD is: Can you farm well enough in this situation? Once you're farmed... it doesn't matter who you are.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
June 11 2012 18:58 GMT
#3239
On June 12 2012 03:38 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 00:49 Mogwai wrote:
On June 12 2012 00:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Interestingly, Graves, Corki, Kog, and Ashe ALL had sub-50% winning percentages for this tournament. Meanwhile, Ez and Trist really shown, with a .727 winrate on Ez (11 games) and .667 winrate on Trist (9 games). Does this mean teams need to shift their mindset about AD carries?

Correlation and causality are two different things. I'm mostly of the opinion that the ranged AD you select is ultimately the least important role decision on your entire team.

The most important factor for choosing your AD is: Can you farm well enough in this situation? Once you're farmed... it doesn't matter who you are.

well, your ranged AD pick is still important, but ultimately, all their damage levels and the safety their range provide are functionally similar enough that the other members of your team are more important for dictating the flow of teamfights. IMO @ least.

it's really interesting thinking about my opinions on these matters because I think that the ranged AD becomes the most important member of a team too early in the game and that they're too strong right now, but I also think that which ranged AD you pick is the least important of your picks.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
June 11 2012 19:03 GMT
#3240
I don't think ranged ADs are too strong, I think Infinity Edge is too strong. That item has been the single best AD carry item since AD carries went mid lane and not only has it not been nerfed yet it actually got buffed with a price decrease like a year ago.
Prev 1 160 161 162 163 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft572
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14150
Hyuk 46
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm225
League of Legends
Doublelift4327
Other Games
summit1g8887
FrodaN3009
JimRising 610
KnowMe179
ViBE122
ArmadaUGS121
Mew2King57
Trikslyr35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1296
BasetradeTV190
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream104
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 111
• davetesta10
• Letter144
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
9h 21m
INu's Battles
11h 21m
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
14h 21m
MilkiCow vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
BSL Open Qualifier
18h 21m
BSL Open Qualifier
18h 21m
Replay Cast
22h 21m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 9h
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
1d 10h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 15h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
2 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
4 days
INu's Battles
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Copium Cup
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.