EPT[Patch 5.22] What is Marksman Gameplay Discussion - Page 6
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
Maybe IE 3rd/4th if you went ER first but BT if you went IE first | ||
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Gahlo
United States35137 Posts
On November 15 2015 16:33 rebdomine wrote: So how do you itemize adcs now? Tried out Jinx earlier today and just went IE-Runaans-LW and was dishing out buttloads of damage but I wasn't even sure if it was the right build lol. Upgrading to IE only gives you the passive. Better to buy the AD parts and complete your Zeal item before finishing it. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Maluk
France987 Posts
Before the patch the build was extremely simple : BotRK, Youmu, Last Whisper in pretty much every game. Given the Blade of the Ruined King nerf rushing it as a first item is probably very bad now. Yi needs attack speed above all, and since he's pretty bad in lane, lifesteal to hold lane is essential too. Based on this, I guess a Vamp scepter rush remains mandatory, but completing an item that builds from Vamp scepter does not seem optimal because you won't get attack speed. So I would guess that after Yi gets some lifesteal a good option is to go for an attack speed item, probably Static shiv or Ghostblade. Given the huge price increase on Ghostblade, maybe Static shiv is the better choice now. After you get some attack speed and lifelink you've got what you need, so item choices become less complicated. I imagine that Yi will want to build a Bloodthirster and a Phantom Dancer as the game goes on. If there are nasty tanks on the enemy team, the anti-tank new weapon. So to me the early game build is the tricky part, especially so because being Yi early on already feels bad. That was somehow compensated by the presence of BotRK as a very solid item for Yi before the patch, but now early game feels very scary for me, although I haven't tested a ton yet. If anyone has an idea, even if it's purely theoretical and if I need to test it myself, I'll be more than happy to hear it. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On November 15 2015 16:33 rebdomine wrote: So how do you itemize adcs now? Tried out Jinx earlier today and just went IE-Runaans-LW and was dishing out buttloads of damage but I wasn't even sure if it was the right build lol. I like BF-> Crit/AS item ->IE/Second Crit/AS item/LW item A few things: 1) A lot of the power of AD's has been put into kiting, the stacking MS buffs on the Crit/AS items are super strong. 2) The unique buffs on the AS items, especially Shiv and RFC are a lot stronger than they seem. The Shiv/RFC combo is especially potent because the magic damage stacks. At level 18 with IE a RFC/Shiv Crit will do 575 extra magic damage. The ability to shove/poke towers/extra range attack poke is super strong. I don't feel there is much from the other two that can compete unless the enemy has some really massive dive and you absolutely need the PD DR 3) AS scaling took a huge hit in this patch on most AD's. It used to be the case that you could more or less rely on base AS scaling in order to fuel your attacks, but that is no longer the case. At level 18 you're missing like 15%-25% AS from your prior values, and the low early scaling means that buying AS early is a lot more powerful. 4) AS/Crit scale with the primary power masteries for AD's and AD doesn't. There are champion specific builds (rageblade on twitch, rageblade/Gunblade/Wits on Kog, straight AD/Crit/Pen on Graves) of course, but if you're primarily auto attacking and don't have corresponding on-hit effects* you should be hitting those crit/as items hard and early since they have by far the most oomph *) rageblade is so strong i am not sure you can't go Rageblade/Gunblade/Wits End on Vayne, Twitch, and Kogmaw as well. RB is easy on twitch, and RB/GB seems pretty obvious on Kog because of his dual scaling, and the fact that GunB will lifesteal on all of their on-hit damage plus provide a target slow/damage makes it a lot stronger than it would be otherwise. With the larger amount and power of on-hit magic damage, wits is starting to look a lot better as well. With rageblade and gunblade wits is actually more damage than Nashor's [wits has generally more on-hit damage until 166 AP, which you will achieve by about 16 on-hit damage[10 on nashors, 6 on Rage from AP]. But wits is 500 gold cheaper, provides a significant amount of MR[40 to 65] and the MR shred will quickly outstrip the 10% attack speed and slightly higher on-hit damage. On November 16 2015 00:03 GrandInquisitor wrote: Rageblade is more OP on melee champs because they stack it twice as quickly, so less startup time is required. It's really good in lane combined with Fervor because you stack both up then force a really favorable trade. I am not sure that is true. Melee champions can stack it twice as fast, but ranged champions are less likely to explode when using it. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On November 16 2015 04:06 Maluk wrote: Does anyone know what items laner Yi is supposed to buy now ? Before the patch the build was extremely simple : BotRK, Youmu, Last Whisper in pretty much every game. Given the Blade of the Ruined King nerf rushing it as a first item is probably very bad now. Yi needs attack speed above all, and since he's pretty bad in lane, lifesteal to hold lane is essential too. Based on this, I guess a Vamp scepter rush remains mandatory, but completing an item that builds from Vamp scepter does not seem optimal because you won't get attack speed. So I would guess that after Yi gets some lifesteal a good option is to go for an attack speed item, probably Static shiv or Ghostblade. Given the huge price increase on Ghostblade, maybe Static shiv is the better choice now. After you get some attack speed and lifelink you've got what you need, so item choices become less complicated. I imagine that Yi will want to build a Bloodthirster and a Phantom Dancer as the game goes on. If there are nasty tanks on the enemy team, the anti-tank new weapon. So to me the early game build is the tricky part, especially so because being Yi early on already feels bad. That was somehow compensated by the presence of BotRK as a very solid item for Yi before the patch, but now early game feels very scary for me, although I haven't tested a ton yet. If anyone has an idea, even if it's purely theoretical and if I need to test it myself, I'll be more than happy to hear it. Haven't seen lane Yi in this patch, have had a bunch of lane Tryndamere's popping off with 2x Doran into Shiv and Firecannon and just ripping people with the proc spam and free AD. Maybe it could work on Yi too, the Energize items are quite cheap compared to BotrK and have a pretty smooth build path. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4115 Posts
On November 16 2015 04:06 Maluk wrote: Does anyone know what items laner Yi is supposed to buy now ? Before the patch the build was extremely simple : BotRK, Youmu, Last Whisper in pretty much every game. Given the Blade of the Ruined King nerf rushing it as a first item is probably very bad now. Yi needs attack speed above all, and since he's pretty bad in lane, lifesteal to hold lane is essential too. Based on this, I guess a Vamp scepter rush remains mandatory, but completing an item that builds from Vamp scepter does not seem optimal because you won't get attack speed. So I would guess that after Yi gets some lifesteal a good option is to go for an attack speed item, probably Static shiv or Ghostblade. Given the huge price increase on Ghostblade, maybe Static shiv is the better choice now. After you get some attack speed and lifelink you've got what you need, so item choices become less complicated. I imagine that Yi will want to build a Bloodthirster and a Phantom Dancer as the game goes on. If there are nasty tanks on the enemy team, the anti-tank new weapon. So to me the early game build is the tricky part, especially so because being Yi early on already feels bad. That was somehow compensated by the presence of BotRK as a very solid item for Yi before the patch, but now early game feels very scary for me, although I haven't tested a ton yet. If anyone has an idea, even if it's purely theoretical and if I need to test it myself, I'll be more than happy to hear it. I played lane Yi a lot season 5, tried it now and I agree Botrk doen't work. I switched to life steal quints and went for static -> rageblade and it worked lets say better. Of course with the super OP life steal critical mastery, which will be nerfed though. From there I prefer bruiser build like deadman's, sterak, hexdrinker (the whole thing). However, if you want to go full damage, I guess firecannon, infinity and trinity are prime choices, but no idea in what order. | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's counterpart Precision is also real ridiculously strong. That tier in general is stronger in Cunning than in the other two trees. | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Thunderlords definitely has a cooldown. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
There was a period of time when it was thought to have no cd, I myself got 100-0'd by a morello only morg pool, but tested it a couple of hours later to find it was either fixed or not bugged in that way. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 18 2015 12:40 Slusher wrote: I believe the current bug for thunderlords is that if 2 people have it on the same team one person can put in on cd for both players. There was a period of time when it was thought to have no cd, I myself got 100-0'd by a morello only morg pool, but tested it a couple of hours later to find it was either fixed or not bugged in that way. Man, reminds me of the good old days of Morg. You know, the flash QWR solo kill days. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On November 18 2015 14:07 cLutZ wrote: Man, reminds me of the good old days of Morg. You know, the flash QWR solo kill days. Ahh the days when black shield had a CD lower than jungler CC abilities, morg could heal like 100 health off a single W with OP passive spellvamp, and R had a 1.0x2 ratio. Anybody without flash you could just instantly kill with the W MR shred. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
If you look at the time, and how she's an original 40, her numbers weren't that high. Fiddlesticks and Karthus have/had similar ones for example, Annie had lower ones but that's because her bases were even higher.  | ||
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