EPTAlso does anyone know if Deathfire touch works on creeps/monsters or just on champs?
[Patch 5.22] What is Marksman Gameplay Discussion - Page 7
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M2
Bulgaria4116 Posts
Also does anyone know if Deathfire touch works on creeps/monsters or just on champs? | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Edit : From what I have and Gripex uses : Lee jungle : 18/0/12 with Deathfire Torch and for Lee top he just changes Tough skin for Explorer in Resolve tree. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
But he doesn't need mobility, and doesn't really want to build tank masteries (even if he might build tank items), doesn't auto tooooo much, likes burst damage, early game damage and his E is magic. 12/18/0 with Thunderlords? 0/18/12? 6/18/6? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
That said, if you're looking to kill people Cunning is probably the tree you want the 18 points in. 6-18-6 at the least, maybe even 0-18-12 if you're looking to tank up a bit later. | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On November 19 2015 01:51 739 wrote: Precision or Intelligence in Cunning? Also which exactly masteries for Resolve tree? HP regen? On which champion are you referring to? | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Now that Hexdrinker grows into the very powerful MoM, it can be a fine item although I'll often buy Locket if the enemy comp/situation calls for it, it looks like the go-to selfish MR item. But there are 4 potential candidates for the 2nd item when going damage: + Show Spoiler + - Triforce: it costs 100 gold more, provides less AD, AP, AS and MS, all for 10% crit and 10% CDR. It was already a "fed only" item before, certainly not now. - Black Cleaver: it trades 500 gold and 100 HP for 15 AD. That's a really big nerf since the point of your 2nd item timing is to complete it early (gotta keep in mind that Warrior costs 400 more for the full item now, so Warrior+BC is 900 gold more than before for 30 more AD and 100 less HP). Plus, what with all the silly marksmen kits and items buffs, 300 HP isn't that much and you still melt. - Death's Dance: the heal would be nice if she dealt more single-target damage. I wonder how her E counts, on paper W and E's main target heal you for full, while E's cone heals as AoE. The passive bleed is nice to buy time for another shield activation later on, but you still can't decide to save it (or trigger it at will once you're alone) to survive the bleed. It doesn't do more than BC offensively though, and unless there are shields/heals on your team the bleed doesn't change much for her. The build-up is underwhelming with Vamp's combine cost+DD's combine cost being pretty much one. Depending on how you count the long sword, that's a 1000~1400 combine cost here. - Youmuu's Ghostblade: the cheapest of the lot, with the best build path but also the least tankiness. AD, ArPen and CDR is pretty much the dream mix for Vi, especially early on when she's looking for skirmishes and ganks where she doesn't need to keep auto-ing after her rotation. You really need to go full tank after this because you'll have dumped 5.5k gold in Warrior+Youmuu's, with a jungle budget meaning the enemy AD's gonna have his 2-items core and wreck shit up if you didn't set him behind. It doesn't have stickiness like Phage-based items, but the active can cover that, and increase her dueling power later on. I'm thinking I'd go with Youmuu's but it's hard to justify spending so much without any tank stats (especially when Tiamat-based junglers like Lee, Rengar or Kha'Zix can just spend 1200 and have their core damage items). On the other hand, you can start with Caulfield's and branch into BC, or Dirk and keep it for MoM, if you don't do too hot and need to get more tankiness in the short term rather than complete Youmuu's (or even build it at all). Caulfield's probably the "safest" of the two, but flat ArPen is more valuable early on and it's on Dirk. I'll see. I have to try stuff. I'm currently going 18-12 on her, taking Fervor of Battle, but her bursty nature makes me wonder if I wouldn't be better off taking 12-18-0 with Decree for more burst or the mobility keystone for stickiness/ability to get that last auto to finish a gank (if she ends up dealing enough damage; it's true early on if she has ult but stops being the case past midgame or on tanky targets). Alternatively, 0-12-18 with Grasp of the Undying would probably be pretty good too for dueling, or Bonds of Stone to let you initiative without blowing up. The issue being that your role often switches depending on how good you do early on, contrary to a true assassin like Rengar who's gonna look for damage all game long, or a tanky initiator like Gragas or Malphite, so it's easy to take one mastery build and end up in the other situation later on. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35140 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On November 19 2015 07:37 Alaric wrote: I'm not sure what to build on Vi if I want some more damage after warrior... Now that Hexdrinker grows into the very powerful MoM, it can be a fine item although I'll often buy Locket if the enemy comp/situation calls for it, it looks like the go-to selfish MR item. But there are 4 potential candidates for the 2nd item when going damage: + Show Spoiler + - Triforce: it costs 100 gold more, provides less AD, AP, AS and MS, all for 10% crit and 10% CDR. It was already a "fed only" item before, certainly not now. - Black Cleaver: it trades 500 gold and 100 HP for 15 AD. That's a really big nerf since the point of your 2nd item timing is to complete it early (gotta keep in mind that Warrior costs 400 more for the full item now, so Warrior+BC is 900 gold more than before for 30 more AD and 100 less HP). Plus, what with all the silly marksmen kits and items buffs, 300 HP isn't that much and you still melt. - Death's Dance: the heal would be nice if she dealt more single-target damage. I wonder how her E counts, on paper W and E's main target heal you for full, while E's cone heals as AoE. The passive bleed is nice to buy time for another shield activation later on, but you still can't decide to save it (or trigger it at will once you're alone) to survive the bleed. It doesn't do more than BC offensively though, and unless there are shields/heals on your team the bleed doesn't change much for her. The build-up is underwhelming with Vamp's combine cost+DD's combine cost being pretty much one. Depending on how you count the long sword, that's a 1000~1400 combine cost here. - Youmuu's Ghostblade: the cheapest of the lot, with the best build path but also the least tankiness. AD, ArPen and CDR is pretty much the dream mix for Vi, especially early on when she's looking for skirmishes and ganks where she doesn't need to keep auto-ing after her rotation. You really need to go full tank after this because you'll have dumped 5.5k gold in Warrior+Youmuu's, with a jungle budget meaning the enemy AD's gonna have his 2-items core and wreck shit up if you didn't set him behind. It doesn't have stickiness like Phage-based items, but the active can cover that, and increase her dueling power later on. I'm thinking I'd go with Youmuu's but it's hard to justify spending so much without any tank stats (especially when Tiamat-based junglers like Lee, Rengar or Kha'Zix can just spend 1200 and have their core damage items). On the other hand, you can start with Caulfield's and branch into BC, or Dirk and keep it for MoM, if you don't do too hot and need to get more tankiness in the short term rather than complete Youmuu's (or even build it at all). Caulfield's probably the "safest" of the two, but flat ArPen is more valuable early on and it's on Dirk. I'll see. I have to try stuff. I'm currently going 18-12 on her, taking Fervor of Battle, but her bursty nature makes me wonder if I wouldn't be better off taking 12-18-0 with Decree for more burst or the mobility keystone for stickiness/ability to get that last auto to finish a gank (if she ends up dealing enough damage; it's true early on if she has ult but stops being the case past midgame or on tanky targets). Alternatively, 0-12-18 with Grasp of the Undying would probably be pretty good too for dueling, or Bonds of Stone to let you initiative without blowing up. The issue being that your role often switches depending on how good you do early on, contrary to a true assassin like Rengar who's gonna look for damage all game long, or a tanky initiator like Gragas or Malphite, so it's easy to take one mastery build and end up in the other situation later on. i'm sitting on warrior->botrk->cleaver->deadman's->maw sell warrior for steraks still also doing 0/18/12 with stormraiders | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On November 19 2015 07:53 Gahlo wrote: I still think IGB is pretty good. Especially now with the Sheen changes. I'd definitely go Decree(when it's fixed). Rejoice , it was hotfixed, also warlords only on champions is in as well. According to le reddit. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35140 Posts
On November 19 2015 08:14 Slusher wrote: Rejoice , it was hotfixed, also warlords only on champions is in as well. According to le reddit. Last I saw that was only on Korea, which has historically been a bit more proactive about things that need fixing fast but only end up on the PBE. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Feels like even with pre-nerf BotRK I'd rather buy burst and kill them on the spot than stick better but need to dive their turret to finish them off. Re: Iceborn Gauntlet. I'd feel uncomfortable dropping so much gold into so little tankyness early on. Your only damage is Spellblade from the 2700 cost, and you've got nothing against magic damage in there. I feel like Vi should aim at being a legitimate threat at least when entering midgame, so that she can, if not kill her target outright with some help, at least zone it from the fight/force the enemy team to peel her off to create space. Later on even going glass cannon you probably won't be able to kill a squishy (because even if you go triforce and deal half a marksman's health with your combo, they'll drop you before you finish the other half with autos/E once they aren't cc'd anymore), so might as well tank it up, and hopefully provide some decent damage (again, to blow up your ult target with your team) as you don't have a tank's cc or innate survivability. BC was fine in s5 because its pricepoint was reasonable, between its 400 health and your shield you should be able to survive a mage's rotation, and you can start buying whatever tankiness you need (for me it was often HP/MR toward Locket, unless an AD is fed then Mercs and armour for Randuin's) before the enemy finish their 2nd major item. Now I don't feel like you can have a mix of damage and survivability in one item and still not blow up the second a marksman gets its second zeal or major item, and if you have to go full tank right after Warrior on Vi (remember that new Warrior costs more and is weaker damage-wise because of her bases) then your threat is going to drop off to "insignificant" too fast to justify the Vi pick. So might as well go full damage on the second item (or at least component, and branch out if you're behind) and try to play to her strengths or skirmishes and catches, especially if towers fall faster and there's less vision. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On November 19 2015 08:18 Alaric wrote: Edit: BotRK 2nd, Frolossus? It's 3800 gold now and doesn't play into Vi's strength at that point, which is pure burst damage and reliable initiation. Do you just walk up to people, steal their MS and ult them after they flash out? Feels like even with pre-nerf BotRK I'd rather buy burst and kill them on the spot than stick better but need to dive their turret to finish them off. Re: Iceborn Gauntlet. I'd feel uncomfortable dropping so much gold into so little tankyness early on. Your only damage is Spellblade from the 2700 cost, and you've got nothing against magic damage in there. I feel like Vi should aim at being a legitimate threat at least when entering midgame, so that she can, if not kill her target outright with some help, at least zone it from the fight/force the enemy team to peel her off to create space. Later on even going glass cannon you probably won't be able to kill a squishy (because even if you go triforce and deal half a marksman's health with your combo, they'll drop you before you finish the other half with autos/E once they aren't cc'd anymore), so might as well tank it up, and hopefully provide some decent damage (again, to blow up your ult target with your team) as you don't have a tank's cc or innate survivability. BC was fine in s5 because its pricepoint was reasonable, between its 400 health and your shield you should be able to survive a mage's rotation, and you can start buying whatever tankiness you need (for me it was often HP/MR toward Locket, unless an AD is fed then Mercs and armour for Randuin's) before the enemy finish their 2nd major item. Now I don't feel like you can have a mix of damage and survivability in one item and still not blow up the second a marksman gets its second zeal or major item, and if you have to go full tank right after Warrior on Vi (remember that new Warrior costs more and is weaker damage-wise because of her bases) then your threat is going to drop off to "insignificant" too fast to justify the Vi pick. So might as well go full damage on the second item (or at least component, and branch out if you're behind) and try to play to her strengths or skirmishes and catches, especially if towers fall faster and there's less vision. a very large portion of your damage comes from your W(should be maxed after Q), botrk has really good synergy with your W, i feel like the gold cost is negligible and 2% damage only really hurts your objective control. i think botrk + cleaver is still the best damage core for any character that gets most of it's damage from gap closing then autos(vi, shyv, noct). it was for sure the best option last patch but i don't feel like it's bad enough yet and that other options are good enough to justify replacing it mid-endgame vi is going to have no issues dueling anything | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
As Vi you're not supposed to solo a target but either cc-lock it during a gank, or paint a giant target on it for your team to blow-up in bigger fights, so you don't really get to trigger W a lot. Sure once the melee break out and you're hitting a bruiser you're doing it, but I consider the "blow up a carry" part the most crucial for Vi, so I'd build her with that goal in mind. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's got a thing now where I can plug 1-3 builds into it and then there's a page that just gives results. Looks like this: http://imgur.com/a/r77WM Depicted is the differences between 3 builds, each Athene+Void+Deathcap, but then one with Ludens+Liandry, one with Ludens+Lich Bane, and one with Liandry+Lich Bane. Can you tell which is which? Even though I don't actually play League, I still tend to have quite a bit of fun with it. I'll probably spend the next week finding errors in it though QQ. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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