EPT[Patch 5.22] What is Marksman Gameplay Discussion - Page 4
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WiseBagus
Canada452 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Ketara has taught us all that the flat hybrid penetration definitely beats out the percentage penetration. But what about the keystones? The movespeed is lovely for Jax's that don't want to build BotRK no more, while the damage from Fervor and Thunderlord's Decree is also amazing, each in their own way. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
I don't know what the fuck is going on. All I know is Graves Jungle is pretty bonkers right now. Looks like one of the few junglers that can do a healthy clear early on. Too many new items, but so far Riot has done pretty good job with all the new items that came out, they all look like they have a place in a build for certain champions, or certain play styles. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
You'll get +20/30 armor when you're doing your first buff | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On November 14 2015 01:54 GrandInquisitor wrote: Is Jax better with 12/18/0 or 18/12/0? To me the relevant choices are:
Ketara has taught us all that the flat hybrid penetration definitely beats out the percentage penetration. But what about the keystones? The movespeed is lovely for Jax's that don't want to build BotRK no more, while the damage from Fervor and Thunderlord's Decree is also amazing, each in their own way. Why not 12/0/18 with grasp of bullshit? I'm calling it grasp of bullshit for a reason guys. Let's ask this question. If Jax W also did 3% max health damage on top of everything else it does, would you complain about that being an unfairly large buff? Because, grasp of bullshit guys. Guys? Guys. More seriously, for Jax and champions like him I feel like his issue is mostly surviving and not dealing damage. If he survives long enough he outdamages a very large majority of champions. 12/0/18 gives him a decent amount of damage, but is focused on survivability. But then you're like but Ketara, I need a damage keystone to compete with everybody else's damage keystones. To which I remind you that I'm calling it grasp of bullshit for a reason. If you have 4k HP it does 30dps. DFT you need like, 180 bonus AD to do that much damage. Fervor you need an attackspeed of over 3.0 which is physically impossible. And then for some reason it heals you too? Grasp of bullshit guys. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On November 14 2015 03:18 krndandaman wrote: was there a hotfix or secret patch? my client did a decent length patch. warlords cd is in, not sure if/what else | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On November 14 2015 03:46 Ketara wrote: Grasp of bullshit guys. does his ult count as bonus stats? or should I grab regen? | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 14 2015 04:00 Zess wrote: Over how many seconds though? Being able to delete whomever you jump on in the duration on E stun is often more important than any subsequent DPS slapfighting. Yup, remember, autoattacking during teamfights is hard to do as a melee. Now, maybe you are soloing, which means you won or lost based on the champ you are against, or how bad the fiora is. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Grasp of bullshit pretty stronk I think though. It's like Thunderlords but it scales off of tank items instead of off of damage items and also heals you and is on a 4 second cooldown instead of a 30 second cooldown. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On November 14 2015 01:11 WiseBagus wrote: Has anyone played against Swain? I swear his birds were blocking skill shots when he was ulting. Swains birds are generic projectiles, they're blocked by Windwall et all. So no, they should not be. Must have been hitting something else/not doing enough damage because swain has insane regen with his ult up. On November 14 2015 02:50 Caiada wrote: Hybrid pen is way better, the only reason you'd go 18/12/0 is Fervor. I'd probably run with the movespeed. Seems best lategame when you're rolling in damage anyway. The 50-80 damage/hit lategame is pretty insane though. I mean, if you have 200 AD, IE, and 100% Crit then Fervor is still a 16% damage increase at level 18. Realistically you're jax and you have 150-200 AD, 0% crit[devourer/rageblade/gunblade] and so Fervor is another 35% or so damage on your auto attacks. Which is far far far more than 8.4 flat pen will get you. The big thing about champions which build a mix of damage and tank is that either damage or tank in masteries is acceptable, because you compensate with items. Such you tend to want either the best DPS or the best tank option. Fervor is so much damage you can realistically swap an offensive item for a defensive item without much loss. Rageblade+Fervor is probably all you really need[though a third item gunblade could be good as well, as sustain is magnified by defensive stats]. So you will be effectively tankier earlier with Fervor than you will with the defensive masteries. On some time earlier than this post Ketara(?) wrote: If you have 4k HP it does 30dps. DFT you need like, 180 bonus AD to do that much damage. Fervor you need an attackspeed of over 3.0 which is physically impossible. Fervor does 80damage/hit. So if you have devourer that is 120 damage/hit average. Which means you need an attack speed of .25 in order to make Fervor more DPS than grasp. If you don't have devourer you need an attack speed of 1.5 to do more DPS in the first second with Fervor than with Grasp. There is basically no way that grasp comes anywhere close to the power of Fervor. Edit: Grasp is great for a full tank who wants to abuse the HP steal to stay alive[as well as already wanting to be in the defensive tree]. But for AS based champions its not a contest, especially since you can lifesteal off the fervor damage [as with all bonus physical and/or with Gunblade] | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On November 14 2015 04:23 Ketara wrote: Gou I think you are living in a fantasy land where melee champions actually get to aa a lot in teamfights. It doesn't matter if you get to AA "a lot" because it stacks so fast(and stacks on creeps) that its not an issue. Jax stacks Rageblade in 4 attacks. So Ult, Leap, E, Auto, W, Auto, Auto. At which point he will have +177% AS with just Rageblade which is worth 1.77 AS. You will apply 3+4+5+6 = 18 stacks in that time before rageblade fully stacks, for 144 damage, more than Grasp will ever do. And this assumes he starts with zero stacks. If he was able to hit creeps or monsters for any point of time he can apply 20 stacks in just Auto,W.[and if he can do that he will probably have maxed AS as well, for probably 2.0 AS or more] And the only way grasps other attributes matter is if you live for 4 more seconds after your initial jump[and also have 4000 HP!] which well, you won't unless you apply the best CC. And Fervor is best at applying the best CC. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On November 14 2015 04:23 Ketara wrote: Gou I think you are living in a fantasy land where melee champions actually get to aa a lot in teamfights. Isn't that also an argument against Grasp of the Undying? [edit: oops thought this was once every 4 AAs not once every 4s] The champs I can think of as posterboy use cases for Graps are the likes of Trundle and Rek'Sai | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
I think it's an interesting idea. These keystones require testing more than they do math, given all the conditionals. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
1) Have to have a lot of HP, which means pure defensive options. 2) You can't auto more than once or twice in a fight or Fervor does more 3) the top end of Fervor is massively higher than the top end of grasp. | ||
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