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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On November 30 2014 12:30 Atrioc wrote:Yeah this is all mid lane Pantheon who I feel is a MONSTER right now. I've been going sword + 3 -> bruta -> boots 1 -> hydra -> boots 2 -> ESSENCE REAVER hohohoho and then I dont buy any more items after that because I have already won the game every time. ( Last two games: ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/b84d624f5adaf9d87abe3442542b9823.png) I watched some FateFalls too when I was getting back into Fizz. He's an absolute beast and I think his DFG first build is super sick, but coming from my TL background I will always believe in Korean superiority = P I think this guy is the best Fizz world (and he still runs Lich -> Zhonyas -> Void or Cap depending on situation.)
His name is Fizz Professor ;D
You could also check out the new mid laner for Samsung Bliss.
http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=삼성갤럭시 Bliss
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Nice to see Atrioc postin'
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United States1945 Posts
anyone else try a tanky triforce fizz jungle/top lately? in the jungle i've been going devourer/triforce and warmogs/frozen heart/situational 3rd defensive item.
not really sure when i should be getting frozen heart, rushing health before resistances is always better for your EHP, but the extra mana is really convenient and as people have mentioned the 20% CDR is huge. but you also need an early sheen too so there are so many build orders you can choose from.
i'm ending up wanting to go like sheen -> new 600g hp/regen item -> frozen heart if i'm not fed enough to rush triforce and it seems good in theory but there has to be a reason you never see high elo players building parts of 3 different items at once.
i've also been meaning to try to incorporate a zhonya's in my build somewhere, is there any reason i shouldn't if i'm not building any other AP items?
next game i get fed before i buy devourer i really gotta try rushing lichbane + the magus enchant with a full ap build instead, getting an early 80ap and 20% from your jungle item seems like it has a lot of potential.
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On December 06 2014 21:36 chalice wrote:
anyone else try a tanky triforce fizz jungle/top lately? in the jungle i've been going devourer/triforce and warmogs/frozen heart/situational 3rd defensive item.
not really sure when i should be getting frozen heart, rushing health before resistances is always better for your EHP, but the extra mana is really convenient and as people have mentioned the 20% CDR is huge. but you also need an early sheen too so there are so many build orders you can choose from.
i'm ending up wanting to go like sheen -> new 600g hp/regen item -> frozen heart if i'm not fed enough to rush triforce and it seems good in theory but there has to be a reason you never see high elo players building parts of 3 different items at once.
i've also been meaning to try to incorporate a zhonya's in my build somewhere, is there any reason i shouldn't if i'm not building any other AP items?
next game i get fed before i buy devourer i really gotta try rushing lichbane + the magus enchant with a full ap build instead, getting an early 80ap and 20% from your jungle item seems like it has a lot of potential.
Pretty sure it'd be better to just go AP out of the jungle
you are going to do like no damage lategame even with triforce on fizz tbh.
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United States1945 Posts
On December 07 2014 08:54 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 21:36 chalice wrote:
anyone else try a tanky triforce fizz jungle/top lately? in the jungle i've been going devourer/triforce and warmogs/frozen heart/situational 3rd defensive item.
not really sure when i should be getting frozen heart, rushing health before resistances is always better for your EHP, but the extra mana is really convenient and as people have mentioned the 20% CDR is huge. but you also need an early sheen too so there are so many build orders you can choose from.
i'm ending up wanting to go like sheen -> new 600g hp/regen item -> frozen heart if i'm not fed enough to rush triforce and it seems good in theory but there has to be a reason you never see high elo players building parts of 3 different items at once.
i've also been meaning to try to incorporate a zhonya's in my build somewhere, is there any reason i shouldn't if i'm not building any other AP items?
next game i get fed before i buy devourer i really gotta try rushing lichbane + the magus enchant with a full ap build instead, getting an early 80ap and 20% from your jungle item seems like it has a lot of potential. Pretty sure it'd be better to just go AP out of the jungle you are going to do like no damage lategame even with triforce on fizz tbh.
i've found that the combination of devourer and triforce with fizz's strong base damage numbers (%hp never sucks) and the tankiness to stay alive long enough to make use of CDR and get multiple rounds of your skills off that the damage seems very respectable for the jungle role.
i'm sure that for a skilled fizz player that full AP is better at carrying games, but as a gold scrub with old man reaction times still learning the champ, i find the extra EHP gives me a nice margin of error so that i don't die whenever my E and zhonya's usage is less than optimal. i also think a tank build out of the jungle is also a lot easier to fit into team compositions when you can rarely count on random tops/supports to provide solid initiations/engages.
one thing i'd really like opinions/theorycraft on is void staff as a last item with only devourer/triforce as offensive items. with devourer and W's magic damage scaling independently of other ap items it seems like the clear biggest dps increase for the item slot, but i wonder if that's going too hybrid with your build and is bad because you're not really getting any multiplicative scaling from either offensive or defensive items.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I've been playing loads of Fizz jungle lately and it's really feast-or-famine. Jungle gold is so low right now that if you aren't catching up by way of kills, you're just devastatingly behind. Magus is a wonderfully gold-efficient item but AP Fizz really needs both Lich Bane and Zhonya's, and that's a ton of gold that you can't get just from farming jungle camps.
As for Triforce Fizz, it's kind of like building Jax isn't it? Take the standard BotRK/TF -> tankiness build, sub out BotRK and replace it with Devourer, and like Jax your Q is a gapcloser, your W is an AA empower, and your E is pseudo-tankiness. You just trade R tankiness/DPS for an engage / burst damage. In general it's a more bursty version of Jax, which is why whenever I try it I just get baited into building AP Fizz anyway.
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United States1945 Posts
On December 09 2014 00:23 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've been playing loads of Fizz jungle lately and it's really feast-or-famine. Jungle gold is so low right now that if you aren't catching up by way of kills, you're just devastatingly behind. Magus is a wonderfully gold-efficient item but AP Fizz really needs both Lich Bane and Zhonya's, and that's a ton of gold that you can't get just from farming jungle camps.
As for Triforce Fizz, it's kind of like building Jax isn't it? Take the standard BotRK/TF -> tankiness build, sub out BotRK and replace it with Devourer, and like Jax your Q is a gapcloser, your W is an AA empower, and your E is pseudo-tankiness. You just trade R tankiness/DPS for an engage / burst damage. In general it's a more bursty version of Jax, which is why whenever I try it I just get baited into building AP Fizz anyway.
yeah that's the problem i found when trying to work some AP jungle fizz builds into my repertoire. while it's fine to delay your magus upgrade, the stacking nature of devourer pretty much forces you to commit to one path or the other before you really know if you're going to get the kills you need to complete your lich bane + zhonya's early enough to play as a squishy ap assassin out of the jungle.
i haven't tried it yet, but i'm thinking that the only way to maintain build flexibility is to open devourer + sheen and go AP from there if you are able snowball. while you will certainly miss the 20% cdr and 80ap from magus, at least the on-hit magic damage from devourer will benefit from your sorcs + void staff penetration. until the devourer nerfs go live (and probably after as well) i think you probably lose too much from doing the reverse going magus into tank if you realize you're not going to get the gold you need.
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So Quas just played some Fizz top, ended up doubling Maokai's cs at some point (107 to 53, forgot the time) going TF, Wits, to FH. Looked pretty cool with the way W works now. It's kind of late to end up tanky and I'm not sure if it can really survive long enough to deal out the sustained damage, but it looks fun :D Any thoughts?
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On February 22 2015 09:30 Apoptotic wrote:
So Quas just played some Fizz top, ended up doubling Maokai's cs at some point (107 to 53, forgot the time) going TF, Wits, to FH. Looked pretty cool with the way W works now. It's kind of late to end up tanky and I'm not sure if it can really survive long enough to deal out the sustained damage, but it looks fun :D Any thoughts?
AD/bruiser fizz is the way most people build him now. I haven't seen many people getting wit's end, but frozen heart and triforce are pretty normal.
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Oh ic. I'm on the filipino server right now and everything is pretty behind. :l Kinda lame, toplane fizz isn't something I've seen here at all. What are the typical runes and masteries for it?
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United States37500 Posts
Player builds are all on the lolesports website. You can find out exactly what Quas used in today's match.
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United States1945 Posts
so the rework made an undocumented change in Fizz' ability mechanics that provides for some interesting item interactions. his W now applies spell effects in addition to on-hit effects so both his Q and W are among the few abilities in the game that apply both.
the first interaction isn't particular useful due to his power curve, but is pretty lol if you get a chance to try it out. because of the way Q and W double dip as single-target spell/on-hit effects he procs the shit out of Muramana. a W -> auto+Q combo will actually proc the Muramana active 5 times almost instantly, twice for the W enhanced auto and three times for the Q (on-hit + Q spell + W spell). with frozen heart being pretty much a core item and IBG and Righteous Glory being viable options, the late-game mana based damage is potentially ridiculous.
in practice though, at least in the jungle, i've found that getting an early tear sets back your mid-game power too much for Muramana to be anything other than extremely situational.
as for the other more promising interaction, i haven't tried it out yet (just now tested to make sure the mechanics work), but W's passive dot now applies/refreshes the Liandry's burn (i'm pretty sure it didn't before the rework). with part of the reason BOTRK is so good on Fizz being the synergy between current %hp and missing %hp i'm not sure that Liandry's can't fill that role.
i think a Sunfire+penetration bruiser build is the alternative to the BOTRK/Triforce path that people have had the most success with, although i've seen people recommending Abyssal instead of Guise/Liandry's for the flat pen. the Sorcs+Guise combo has always been a classic snowball starter build path and i can't really think of many reasons why a Sorcs-Guise-Sunfire early game core won't work well on Fizz.
obviously going from full %hp damage on each hit with BOTRK to only getting a refreshing DOT with Liandry's hurts; but that should be at least partially mitigated by the magic penetration enhancing all of your other damage, the Liandry's burn being magic damage instead of physical with armor values typically being much higher than magic resistance, and Guise providing a better build path/item timing than Cutlass (i think?).
if my math is correct i think you get 13% current hp burn just from landing your ult on someone (five 0.5s ticks while slowed by the fish then three 1% ticks afterwards).
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United States37500 Posts
I don't think I'd ever build Tear on Fizz. It just creates too much of a lull during laning phase, the time where you need to bully and get ahead as an assassin.
I've been playing a few games as Top Fizz building the standard BotRK into Trinity/Lucidity/FH and it's working out alright. If anything, it just saddens me how Rito gutted AP Fizz. Before, Fizz still has the burst with WQ along with the AoE splash of E. Now Playful Trickster is literally a one point wonder skill where it helps Fizz move around but it's purely utility. AD Fizz has great dueling potential, pitiful wave clear, and takes down turrets half decently due to the AS from BotRK. I feel like he really suffers now against heavy CC comps because you have to wait on the outskirts of a team fight and way for key enemy CC spells to be used first or for an enemy carry to misposition. AP Fizz could WQ in, E for the AoE splash and slow, then stay alive long enough for Zhonya's for your team to get in range. You definitely have to play a lot more cautiously with the current iteration of Fizz.
I've seen a few Jungle Fizzes that run Skirmisher's/Devourer but tbh, there are a lot of better jungle picks right now, not even counting your typical Lee/J4/Nids.
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United States1945 Posts
i've been playing him in the jungle with exhaust as my second summoner and his dueling ability with skirmisher's and exhaust up seems really strong. been going Devourer into Righteous Glory since the RG hp buff (except for the failed tear experiments) and it has been working well.
bruiser Fizz uses the early HP/mana/regen from RG as well as anyone and even with my complete misuse of the active due to inexperience, it really seems to add an entire new initiation dimension to what you can do. without it, it's easy for you to catch up with someone leaving your team too far behind to follow up; with it you pretty much never have to use your E to gapclose and your teammates will be right behind you.
if you time it right you can hopefully E in the middle of the opposing team as the RG slow is about to pop (can you manually activate the slow before the 3 second speed boost is up?) and then come down from your E for up to 3 seconds of an 80%-60% aoe slow.
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
You can manually activate the slow.
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United States1945 Posts
i just played a couple games going Cinderhulk instead of Devourer on jungle Fizz to try to make a Sorcs/Guise opening work better (with Devourer you either delay your tankiness or flat penetraion too long for it to work well).
maybe it's just that Cinderhulk is overtuned at the moment, but it felt extremely strong. not only was it effective on it's own, but it makes building early damage in the form of flat penetration or BOTRK and getting an early Frozen Heart feel much smoother.
although statwise it's a great item on him, i wonder if investing your initial gold in a delayed power stacking item like Devourer significantly holds back a jungle Fizz's ability to snowball.
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On March 26 2015 03:45 NeoIllusions wrote:
I don't think I'd ever build Tear on Fizz. It just creates too much of a lull during laning phase, the time where you need to bully and get ahead as an assassin.
I've been playing a few games as Top Fizz building the standard BotRK into Trinity/Lucidity/FH and it's working out alright. If anything, it just saddens me how Rito gutted AP Fizz. Before, Fizz still has the burst with WQ along with the AoE splash of E. Now Playful Trickster is literally a one point wonder skill where it helps Fizz move around but it's purely utility. AD Fizz has great dueling potential, pitiful wave clear, and takes down turrets half decently due to the AS from BotRK. I feel like he really suffers now against heavy CC comps because you have to wait on the outskirts of a team fight and way for key enemy CC spells to be used first or for an enemy carry to misposition. AP Fizz could WQ in, E for the AoE splash and slow, then stay alive long enough for Zhonya's for your team to get in range. You definitely have to play a lot more cautiously with the current iteration of Fizz.
I've seen a few Jungle Fizzes that run Skirmisher's/Devourer but tbh, there are a lot of better jungle picks right now, not even counting your typical Lee/J4/Nids.
The PBE looks like AP Fizz might be pretty good again.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Hopefully now that all the nerfs/buffs to Fizz have quieted down, what do you guys think of jungle AP Fizz? It seems to be really strong, primarily because Runeglaive is insanely good on him while being way cheaper than Lich Bane. It allows him to hit that two item spike of Runeglaive/Zhonya's way earlier, gets him out of his terrible laning phase, adds some CDR to boot, and Runeglaive fixes his mana/clear issues that old jungle Fizz had.
Really I think that mid AP Fizz would want to build Runeglaive over Lich Bane anyway - it's more damage early on, cheaper, gives CDR, and only starts losing out on damage once you get multiple big AP items.
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I remember for sure that Nightblu3, who I was watching the other day, listed Fizz in his top 5 junglers to carry hard with in solo q (play these if you want to win--his words). In my opinion, Fizz feels extremely strong, since the jungle does cover up much of his weaknesses
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Thank you sir glizzington. i am now on a 10 game losing streak i will continue with spreading this amazing build in the game!
User was banned for this post.
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EPT
