If you are having trouble reading the skills because it's too long for your resolution/monitor size, zoom out with your browser (e.g. Ctrl - for Chrome)
FeralPony and Xypherous for developing such an awesome champion. NeoIllusions at Teamliquid for being a great editor, helping me bounce ideas and sacrificing his life in so many videos! Moonbear, Xes, Guitar, Ghostclaw and OneNightStanz for helping me test Fizz tricks and being generally awesome. Shiroiusagi for being incredibly patient with me when I pestered her with so many CSS questions as I tried to make this guide. I really couldn't have made this half as cool without your help! Riot Games for making a really badass game that I can't help but play and write about with all my free time.
About the Author:
Brandon "Atrioc" Ewing is an eSports journalist, Diamond 1 Player, and lifelong competitive gamer who is really really passionate about League of Legends. Contact at Twitter: @Atrioc, Reddit: /u/atrioc , or with a PM here on Teamliquid!
Fizz's #2 playstyle (Bull) has a typo: it should be Hybrid, not hybird. Also hovering over the Jungle/Bruiser runepage blocks out the Utility tree, although you don't allocate any points there (14/16/x, x being 0 of course). Other than that fantastic read and holy shit is it pretty. Great job as always!
On September 02 2013 04:05 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: Fizz's #2 playstyle (Bull) has a typo: it should be Hybrid, not hybird. Also hovering over the Jungle/Bruiser runepage blocks out the Utility tree, although you don't allocate any points there (14/16/x, x being 0 of course). Other than that fantastic read and holy shit is it pretty. Great job as always!
Oh shit here he goes again. Brb actually reading it, but it's great to see you've been using anchors this time, makes navigating between sections much easier.
Edit: also the "Wanna see a trick?" sound ("trick jumps" section) doesn't seem to load, just reporting it. And I'd say "do Viktor next" but I assume he isn't a part of your champion pool, right?
An annoying thing is that you have to hover your cursor over a skill to switch the images display, but because of how long the section is you can't view the whole picture on a single screen, and when you scroll the cursor stops hovering over the skill, making the picture disappear. I assume you're simply switching the img tag's "display" attribute between default and "none" as the cursor goes over/out of the skill, maybe you could instead put the skill's img to default and set the other 5 to "display:none" when you start hovering over a skill, and not do anything when you stop hovering?
(If people have trouble reading these pictures too, here are passive, Q, W, E and R. The Q picture has part of the passive's text still in it.)
Good guide. I don't understand why koreans play fizz with flash, his snowball potential is just soooo much better with barrier for stronger 1v1 or teleport for early tp-ganks (and late game split push).
Twisted Fate, i feel like there are a lot of bad TFs out there that want to get good at him but hes really challenging, ive finally gotten mediocre with him maybe going like 5-4-8 or somthing but a guid would be so helpful especially becasue im salty about missing the link lolclass on TF
This guide is the best I have ever seen, maybe there are some guides that are better content wise , but I don't think there is a better looking guide than this one. It's just so beautiful
I'm definitely going to try and pick up fizz now, that guide has inspired me. It's also sooooooooooo pretty damn, now I can't write a guide for anything cause it won't be as awesome looking as this .
IDK if it's just my computer but my laptop screen isn't very tall (it's not 4:3) so the skill section was frustrating. I couldn't view the text unless the cursor was highlighting the skill but if my cursor was highlighting the skill then I could only see the top third of the text. I eventually solved this by zooming out on the web page until the text was just barely readable, which of course was annoying in of itself. Other than that, the guide is great. Always loved Fizz, just too scared to play him in a real game.
On September 02 2013 09:14 phyvo wrote: IDK if it's just my computer but my laptop screen isn't very tall (it's not 4:3) so the skill section was frustrating. I couldn't view the text unless the cursor was highlighting the skill but if my cursor was highlighting the skill then I could only see the top third of the text. I eventually solved this by zooming out on the web page until the text was just barely readable, which of course was annoying in of itself. Other than that, the guide is great. Always loved Fizz, just too scared to play him in a real game.
On September 02 2013 09:14 phyvo wrote: IDK if it's just my computer but my laptop screen isn't very tall (it's not 4:3) so the skill section was frustrating. I couldn't view the text unless the cursor was highlighting the skill but if my cursor was highlighting the skill then I could only see the top third of the text. I eventually solved this by zooming out on the web page until the text was just barely readable, which of course was annoying in of itself. Other than that, the guide is great. Always loved Fizz, just too scared to play him in a real game.
On September 02 2013 11:45 smOOthMayDie wrote: I figured your #3 blackfin would match up with your jungle/bruiser mastery page. but they don't Where are the points going for Blackfins 19/11/0 ?
Honestly I think between making those two pages I played some more jungle fizz and changed my mind about how deep I should go into the offensive tree, so when I make the update I will patch that up - thanks for pointing it out!
On September 02 2013 11:44 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Great effort! Why 7 Hybrid and not 9 though?
Still want to prioritize magic pen over armor pen, the majority of your damage is AP for most of the game. I feel like trading 3 more Mpen (what you would get with full Mpen reds instead) for 6.3 Arpen is worth it but I dont need much more than that and I like that my Mpen is an even 6.
On September 02 2013 14:54 57 Corvette wrote: As a Gragas main, Screw you.
(Gragas is pretty much Fish food as well)
really? i'd imagine grag v. fish would be a skill matchup. Grag is naturally decently tanky and he can always jsut farm at range with Q if things ever go bad.
This guide makes me want to play Fizz badly, even though I have never played him before. Beautiful and informative. Very well done and deserving of the 'Ultimate' title.
On September 02 2013 14:54 57 Corvette wrote: As a Gragas main, Screw you.
(Gragas is pretty much Fish food as well)
really? i'd imagine grag v. fish would be a skill matchup. Grag is naturally decently tanky and he can always jsut farm at range with Q if things ever go bad.
It's not a really a skill matchup, so much as a "as long as Fizz has his E up, you're never hitting a barrel, ever" matchup. You can be a jerk to him while he farms, but if he gets past that, not an awful lot you can do to him 1v1. His dash also repositions him very quickly, which he can also use to dodge barrels.
If the Fizz is absolutely terrible, then yeah, you can win. That doesn't really make it a skill matchup.
If this were a blog post, I'd be complaining about not having enough stars to represent the levels of awesome you have produced. But it's not even a blog, so there are no stars. You're a star for making this guide, thanks! I was looking at getting fizz because he's cool, then I saw some of those trick jumps, instant brought him and now people have started to ban fizz. Natural progression all stemming from such an amazing guide. Well done!
Hey Atrioc so I played a lot of Fizz in solo queue and I find myself having trouble with Lux. It seems like when she takes barrier and doesn't derp in lane she's really safe vs you, especially with jungle pressure. Am I doing something wrong? Should I be trying to land those early E flashes on her for kills? Her w plus barrier makes it really hard to put damage down on her for (my) W to do work and basically I just sit there farming double dorans -> sheen + boots as best I can. Is there a trick to the matchup?
I've played a ton of Fizz games and didn't even know you could do that Tidal Flash...mainly because I never take flash but only barrier/teleport... good to know now I suddenly like taking flash because of that and also when the silly enemy comes back with 30% after your first WQ lvl 2 combo and then you simply flash WQ ignite again.
On September 04 2013 00:09 CTStalker wrote: awesome guide, and really nice presentation! my only critique is that I'm not a fan of text embedded in images
also, you've got the same paragraph twice describing Urchin Strike as his passive ability
On September 04 2013 00:09 CTStalker wrote: awesome guide, and really nice presentation! my only critique is that I'm not a fan of text embedded in images
also, you've got the same paragraph twice describing Urchin Strike as his passive ability
wtf, when did you start playing League? :O
just started like a month ago or so. you've been doing a nice job too, Mr LoL admin!
I've been using boots+4 open on "bull" since red pot nerf idk it's not combat stats so I can see where that seems weird, but move speed advantage is really helpful I find on Fizz when you want to go for the early kill, and it transitions super well into exerting pressure on side lanes once you get the lead rolling.
just a thought I wanted to throw out there, both of your opens work just fine. really nice guide once again btw, you have put the other guide writers on notice that much is for sure.
I dunno, I've been telling my junglers to care for the fizz bleed and make sure they last hit, but I just played a game where My Jungler ignore that advice and lost blue to my bleed despite me being in mid lane already (cuz apparently last hitting is hard?).
Dude raged then just AFK'd rest of game after purposely feeding mid and top 3 kills each. My first loss on Fizz so lame. 6-1 too stronk. I FB'd the Annie right after, and I got really fed in game, just gah..
-.-
Is it silly for me to just not level up W till I get in lane? Should I do that?
On September 04 2013 12:32 iCanada wrote: Okay, so what you protocol on leashing as Fizz?
I dunno, I've been telling my junglers to care for the fizz bleed and make sure they last hit, but I just played a game where My Jungler ignore that advice and lost blue to my bleed despite me being in mid lane already (cuz apparently last hitting is hard?).
Dude raged then just AFK'd rest of game after purposely feeding mid and top 3 kills each. My first loss on Fizz so lame. 6-1 too stronk. I FB'd the Annie right after, and I got really fed in game, just gah..
-.-
Is it silly for me to just not level up W till I get in lane? Should I do that?
If I'm mid lane and my jungler is starting blue I dont leash at all - there's no way to do it without missing creeps and bot lane should be able to cover it.
If I'm top lane and leashing then I'll still take my chances with leveling W early because it speeds up the leash a lot. Just back off a little earlier and give the jungler full warning to watch out for it.
On September 03 2013 19:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Hey Atrioc so I played a lot of Fizz in solo queue and I find myself having trouble with Lux. It seems like when she takes barrier and doesn't derp in lane she's really safe vs you, especially with jungle pressure. Am I doing something wrong? Should I be trying to land those early E flashes on her for kills? Her w plus barrier makes it really hard to put damage down on her for (my) W to do work and basically I just sit there farming double dorans -> sheen + boots as best I can. Is there a trick to the matchup?
There are two ways I like to approach the matchup which in general I've had a lot of success with, but I 100% agree with the basic idea that Lux with 3 shields is very annoying.
1: Get 30/0/0, barrier or flash with ignite, start red pot or dring (prefer the first but it will clue them in to what your plan is), get a really agressive runpage (the perfect one would be flat AP blues, flat AP quints, armor yellows, hybrid pen reds, but I dont even have that page and generally just use scaling AP) and start pushing the wave in such a way that you hit 2 first but its not frozen in front of her tower ( which means try to clear range minions if you can so the line stays the same when the 2nd wave comes in) start playing super agressive at either 2 or 3 depending on where shes standing and if possible coordinate with your jungler - you have amazing all-in potential around this time even with her crapton of shields, ESPECIALLY if you use E correctly and dont get hit by a binding.
2, Go 21/9, teleport with ignite, start flask + 3 pots, and get a normal defensive runepage (armor or hp/lvl yellows, mres blues, hybrid reds, AP quints) and just farm and chug pots if any harass sticks on you. Lux has a VERY hard time hitting you and an impossible time of hitting you without pushing the wave - no Lux will ever ever ever start with a ward and pretty soon she will be in a dangerous position. Fizz farms amazing under tower and you can eaisly set up some ganks from your jungler OR simply get the levels and cs you want - if she ever harasses you enough for it to be a problem, you can simply leave and TP back in (or gank bot!). Essentially this style abuses the fact that Lux without ignite has 0 realisitc kill potential on a Fizz that isn't diving her. Come teamfight time/ mid game when core items start coming into play she will be more and more scared of you and generally less useful anyway.
2nd style is objectively better imo, but I will almost always pick the first because I like to play aggressive and am always trying to kill the enemy mid laner 1v1.
*edit*
Always redpot sooner rather than later!! I see way to many people hold onto it until they are already halfway into commiting to an all-in or until someone is trying to dive and kill them and they end up just using it for the HP. I generally pop that sucker before I do my very first W-Q poke on the enemy mid laner and rarely regret it - the lane control it gives you is huge and worth the cost.
What do Lux start in your experience? I only ever see them starting charm+pots (in general, I don't play Fizz), so they often have one or two wards. Do they start dring+2 pots against your Fizz?
I think I play a similar style to you in that I love to all-in at level 2/3 with red pot, the only downside is that if their jungler is smart he's 100% there every time it happens and it will likely at best end up being a trade with FB on your side. Probably worth it, but worst case is she survives with good flash/barrier timing and you give FB to her or her jungler making the matchup really hard from that point on .
I think I want to try out the 21/9/0 mastery strategy with Flash Ignite. Usually I just 30/0/0 yolo blaze it but as you get higher in rating the matchups get harder to 420 noscope because they're prepared for the burst.
On September 04 2013 18:45 Alaric wrote: What do Lux start in your experience? I only ever see them starting charm+pots (in general, I don't play Fizz), so they often have one or two wards. Do they start dring+2 pots against your Fizz?
I think dring+2 pots is in general a terrible start on Lux.
It doesn't give her enough mana regen to harass the way she wants and her AP ratios are low enough that 15 starting AP isn't really improving her damage. Most of her early lane damage is from her passive which has no AP ratio. If she starts dring+2 pots she's going to inevitably put herself in a position where she's pushed the wave up and doesn't have enough mana to use all 3 of her spells if the jungler shows up.
That doesn't mean people aren't doing it though, maybe most Lux players are so scared of Fizz they think they need the extra all in potential from the HP?
I typically take a ward vs. Fizz. He's hard enough to deal with solo I don't want his jungler there too.
In my experience mid lane Vlad really gives Zed the business Flash/ignite start dshield - you can pool his ult, outpoke him hard, and build zhonyas as core anyway.
Lissandra beats zed, but she doesn't do enough damage to make up for it. Most koreans opt to go karthus to try and free farm lane w/ a possible switch or go ahri to dodge zed AA.
If you are getting W at level 1, you'll take too much harass imo. There are many lanes where your opponent's skills take time to land eg: brand's W or Sion's Q or Lux's QorE. If you get E (or even Q) on the other hand, you can dodge spells.
You would only take one spell because of the cooldowns before hitting 2 and you can shrug off that with your sustain. If you need W-Q to combo them at level 2 you have to deal with taking one spell to the face sometimes.
On September 07 2013 18:12 NovaTheFeared wrote: You would only take one spell because of the cooldowns before hitting 2 and you can shrug off that with your sustain. If you need W-Q to combo them at level 2 you have to deal with taking one spell to the face sometimes.
But you don't need W, Q does the same thing: damage
On September 07 2013 18:12 NovaTheFeared wrote: You would only take one spell because of the cooldowns before hitting 2 and you can shrug off that with your sustain. If you need W-Q to combo them at level 2 you have to deal with taking one spell to the face sometimes.
But you don't need W, Q does the same thing: damage
But W makes it a lot easier for you to last hit at 1. You can't really win a trade at 1 with Q anyway, no point starting Q.
Like what, you going to Q onto them in the middle of all their minions Level 1? And then what? Trades Autos in their minions? I dunno man, I dont think you ever win that trade. Like at all, I think you much better just eating a couple small auto harrass because you can sustain that as well as they going to take about the same damage from creeps.
Starting E against really ganky heavy junglers or like I can see, but I dont see the point of Q. W also much better at slowpushing the wave so you hit 2 faster.
Talked to Locodoco at worlds, he said he knew me from this guide and he had shown it to his mid laner (Apple) who thought the double blue buff jump was amazing. I am now the world's biggest Quantic fan.
Hover over timeline, go to around ~2:27:00 for game start. I have trouble streaming/recording where I'm at so getting Nien's VOD is the closest thing to a Fizz video I can provide at this time.
Some of the important tricks worth noting:
vs. Twisted Fate, you do not follow my guide's skill order and get Q second. Level 1 is W, which you try to get at least 1 hit off on him with during level 1, Level 2 is now E instead - now he is in a very dangerous spot if he tries to use any gold/blue/red card on you because you are able to dodge it AND gap close (need to land on him for it to have kill potential).
This has been said in every game ever but when you are ahead, especially in a matchup like this, be patient and look for ways to get more ahead. Freeze your wave instead of shoving it, look for ways to deny him CS so he has to call for jungler attention that can NEVER work because you are not pushed too far up.
When the lane does start pushing, let it build up to at least 2x size of a normal wave and then shove it hard into the tower and roam - the enemy mid laner will HAVE to clear it, it will take time, and he will be in full vision of you for the duration. This combos super well with buying a pink ward and putting it near the enemy wraiths.
*edit* 10:28 PST FAKER PLAYING FIZZ ON NA SOLO QUEUE RIGHT NOW WATCH AND LEARN
This is an amazing guide, thank you. I just started playing LoL after watching World's. I usually jungle or adc, but I'm looking to try mid more before I hit level 30. Would you say Fizz is a good starting champion for people relatively new to the game?
Edit: for the next guide, I think a popular champion in the current meta would be good. Maybe gragas, orianna, or ahri? They seem to be played the most at the highest level.
On October 21 2013 11:49 Jettster wrote: This is an amazing guide, thank you. I just started playing LoL after watching World's. I usually jungle or adc, but I'm looking to try mid more before I hit level 30. Would you say Fizz is a good starting champion for people relatively new to the game?
Edit: for the next guide, I think a popular champion in the current meta would be good. Maybe gragas, orianna, or ahri? They seem to be played the most at the highest level.
I personally think Fizz pretty hard for newer players. I mean, I not a new player, so I have no idea, but playing well requires a ton of general knowledge.
You need a good understandind of powercurves, you need to have solid map awareness and a read on their jungler in order to have a strong controlled aggression to you game, and you need to have a good ability to roam otherwise you just kind of fall far far behind.
That being said, if you come from like a broodwar background, you could probably pick those things up fairly easily.
What masteries are people going in S4? I find myself liking 30/0/0 but I've played 21/9/0 before. Not sure if the 9 points in defense are very worth it or if I'm just used to going 21/9 like last season. 30 points in offense is really nice though especially since I like running Ignite/Barrier Fizz.
I tried 21/9/0 and 21/0/9, and I ended up liking the 21/0/9 version better with flask+3 biscuits. With 9 defense you get +4 blocked autos and +50ish health +about 2.5 health every level vs the 9 in the utility tree where each biscuit gives you +20 health instantly and makes every potion/pot give 10% (i think?) more health/mana
Thanks for reminding me why I always ban Fizz. Very beautiful post though... and so interactive. You should work in the educative industry and make interactive stuff for students.
On December 10 2013 12:12 overt wrote: What masteries are people going in S4? I find myself liking 30/0/0 but I've played 21/9/0 before. Not sure if the 9 points in defense are very worth it or if I'm just used to going 21/9 like last season. 30 points in offense is really nice though especially since I like running Ignite/Barrier Fizz.
I actually am not so keen on Spell/Blade weaving on Fizz, since abilities that add on-hit effects (Fizz Q, Mystic Shot etc) count as autoattacks for the weaving buffs. This means Fizz's autos only up damage from his ult and pole that you typically use at the start of the combo/to escape, and his ult/pole would only be increasing damage by like 1% on his autos since you use them both within 1 second of each other I'd assume. Not worth it for two mastery points IMO.
The stuff in Defense synergizes with his passive and desire to do early dives real well though, so 23/7 gud.
Why would you want Expose Weakness? You could easily replace that for another point in veteran scars for a more smooth early game. Expose Weakness is good in duo lane, because they can abuse the talent in lane, but fizz is alone, and it will only benefit him when you get ganks.
Expose weakness stacks with your allies in teamfights later too for up to 5% apparently, which is basically a 2nd havoc buff.
I would probably advise against butcher and feast for fizz...that stuff is next to useless for him. Just make it 21/9/0 if you like all-inning at lv2/3 or 21/0/9 if you play a more standard fizz
Feast is really really really amazing, but Butcher probably next to worthless on Fizz, you'll have to decide whether or not Feast is worth 2 points.
While +12 HP is going to look better on paper during an all-in, Feast is actually probably going to give you more HP for that all in against a competant player. You're going to be taking AA harass at level 1 and will get more than 12 HP from CS via Feast before the all in comes. That's a 1 point vs 1 point comparison though, what we're wondering is if Feast is worth 24 HP which for a level 2 fight it's probably not.
So, maybe not as good as 21/9 if you intend to go super ham at level 2, but if you aren't expecting a level 2 kill and want more staying power to get to level 6 safely I think 23/7 is actually probably more defensive.
Played Fizz for the first time ever today in ranked. Went 18-4-7 thanks to this guide, but lost ...
Three questions:
1) How do I deal with Kayle in lane?
2) What do you think of the nerfs to Fizz?
3) How do I not immediately explode in a teamfight? When everything is clumped together it is really hard to tell if a projectile / spell is coming my way and so really hard to predict when to Playful/Trickster.
On February 06 2014 00:26 GrandInquisitor wrote: Played Fizz for the first time ever today in ranked. Went 18-4-7 thanks to this guide, but lost ...
Three questions:
1) How do I deal with Kayle in lane?
2) What do you think of the nerfs to Fizz?
3) How do I not immediately explode in a teamfight? When everything is clumped together it is really hard to tell if a projectile / spell is coming my way and so really hard to predict when to Playful/Trickster.
kayle is a hard lane but can be easily outplayed by using E so her Q projectile misses. A good kayle will just autoattack you until you use your E though.
Nerfs were mainly to his early game and really reduced his lvl2/3 kill potential but imo he's still pretty good when you reach 3 items. (lichbane hourglass voidstaff)
3. is a matter of experience I guess and to time your E and hourglass right to dodge all the crucial skills. Never initiate a teamfight by using E to gapclose into W/Q unless you have hourglass to stall until your team joins.
On February 06 2014 00:26 GrandInquisitor wrote: Played Fizz for the first time ever today in ranked. Went 18-4-7 thanks to this guide, but lost ...
Three questions:
1) How do I deal with Kayle in lane?
2) What do you think of the nerfs to Fizz?
3) How do I not immediately explode in a teamfight? When everything is clumped together it is really hard to tell if a projectile / spell is coming my way and so really hard to predict when to Playful/Trickster.
1) Be aggressive, especially pre 6. You have to be able to Playful her Reckoning and it's obviously better if she's in range when you land so you can do the damage. If she can land a Reckoning on you and you're inside her max cast range with no escapes, you're going to be in a world of hurt.
2) Plz no nerfs.
3) Uh, get better? First and foremost, flank. You're not an initator. You're best as a backline assassin or clean up. If you trade your life for the enemy ADC, you're doing it right. Besides, you have Playful/Trickster and Zhonya's to bank on as well. Hopefully a GA as your 6th item as well. If all goes well, your team can keep the enemy team occupied long enough for you to do your business. If you're with your team and not flanking, then yeah, good luck dodging anything.
I get GA as a 4th item, not counting boots. Too damn good on fizz to be gotten last.
Kayle is an annoying lane; its kinda like facing a ziggs but not as bad. She falls under one of those matchups where the only real way to win the lane is to engage immediately when they try and harass/push you out of lane (morde, ziggs, orianna sorta, syndra, cassiopia, ryze, etc).
I don't even notice the fizz nerfs to be honest...the W nerf hurt a little when it comes to trading, but it doesn't really matter for the people who play fizz on a daily basis.
Teamfighting with fizz is like the same as teamfighting with zed or ahri; come in at the most opportune time to kill off the adc, get out before the cc comes. If for some reason you're really behind the only one that can kill the tank, you throw your R out on their adc, let your tanks go for the carries, and peel for your adc. But most of the time I'm just hiding in a bush waiting for the adc to get into fish range and i just insta kill them.
Hey guys I really want to update this guide for Season 4 - not a huge amount has changed but there are a few things that seem dated as I read over it - for one, when I wrote this I didn't even include Ziggs or Gragas in the matchups section because they were so rarely picked and they are now his most common opponents, and for two - the masteries are obviously out of date.
If there is anything else you think may not stand the test of time please let me know since updating this thing is a real hassle with all the images haha and I would prefer to do it just once.
As for S4 in general:
My honest opinion of him this patch is that he is still a fully capable solo queue pick and incredibly fun/rewarding to learn, but he is definitely a low-tier character in this current meta. A lot of the hot mid lane picks right now (Ziggs, Gragas, Kayle, Ori) are favored against Fizz and make it hard for you to snowball, and supports being tankier has done nothing to help Fizz pick up easy snipes either.
Is he worth taking to top lane? In my game I rotated top to face Tryndamere while Renekton took my place against Kayle, and it was a big help to both of us. You could imagine, for instance, that he would also do well vs Mundo/other sustain tops. The major drawback was that roaming was difficult -- I was a lot farther from the action -- especially against someone like a Tryndamere that can take your tower quickly.
I've been playing Fizz a lot lately and thinking a lot about his build. I have found Flask/3 pots to generally be better than Doran's Ring/2 pots. I also have grown to prefer CDR boots over Sorcerer's Shoes, because many fights hinge on whether your E can come off cooldown in time or not, and Fizz otherwise has barely any room in his build for CDR.
Other than that, I find building Fizz to be surprisingly tricky. He has so many "core" items that there isn't much room in his build: Lich Bane, Zhonya's, Rabadon's, Void Staff, and GA are 5 items already, so adding in something like a DFG or Abyssal Scepter requires you to either sell your boots or replace one of these seemingly irreplaceable items. Moreover, Sheen is the best first item for him, but it obviously doesn't build into Zhonya's, which you desperately need. I've been trying Sheen -> Zhonya's -> Lich Bane, but that means I don't fully complete an item for a while.
On October 30 2014 03:22 GrandInquisitor wrote: I've been playing Fizz a lot lately and thinking a lot about his build. I have found Flask/3 pots to generally be better than Doran's Ring/2 pots. I also have grown to prefer CDR boots over Sorcerer's Shoes, because many fights hinge on whether your E can come off cooldown in time or not, and Fizz otherwise has barely any room in his build for CDR.
Other than that, I find building Fizz to be surprisingly tricky. He has so many "core" items that there isn't much room in his build: Lich Bane, Zhonya's, Rabadon's, Void Staff, and GA are 5 items already, so adding in something like a DFG or Abyssal Scepter requires you to either sell your boots or replace one of these seemingly irreplaceable items. Moreover, Sheen is the best first item for him, but it obviously doesn't build into Zhonya's, which you desperately need. I've been trying Sheen -> Zhonya's -> Lich Bane, but that means I don't fully complete an item for a while.
Yeah I couldn't agree more that he does not have much room to deviate when it comes to builds. Nowadays I start flash 3 pots and buy 1 doran's ring, sometimes 2 on my first back. From there I like to rush fiendish Codex into either DFG or straight up zhonya's depending how the laning phase is. Lich Bane is usually my third big item and then void staff. I also opt for CDR shoes when i'm not snowballing. CDR shoes/DFG/cdr masteries/blue pot late game will put you at 40% cdr. This usually means I don't need to buy a GA since I can fully combo, zhonya's and then E out with a kill due to CDR. Typical order is something like 1-2 dorans--->DFG--->Zhonya's----->Liche----->Void or Cap(depending on enemy MR). I usually wait to upgrade to cdr boots until my second item is completed.
Leveling W increases the passive rend 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 (+ 35% AP) (+ 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8% of target's missing health) and the active magic damage 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 (+ 25% AP)
Damage-wise, each level in Q adds 30 damage while each level in W adds 15 damage per AA or Q + 1% of the target's missing health. In other words, leveling W always outdamages Q so long as you land a single AA on the target outside of your Q.
So is it for the cooldown reduction that people max Q second instead of W?
Flask + 3 pots is definitely #1 choice you have to SURVIVE 90% of lanes until a gank or level 6. I don't think the rest of the build path is very complicated though:
Flask + 3 -> most expensive part of Lich Bane you can afford -> the other part of Lich Bane + boots usually -> finish Lich Bane -> Needlessly Large Rod if you can afford it, otherwise Boots 2 -> Rest of Zhonyas - > DCAP -> DFG
Only hard part for me is figuring out whether I should get Sorc Boots or CDR Boots and that is the type of question that keeps me up at night. I feel like CDR is optimally better but Sorc Boots never lets me down so IDK.
Fizz and Panth are both so damn good right now I want to just quit my job and play all day.
On November 29 2014 20:06 Atrioc wrote: THE KID IS BACK
Check out my end of season run !
Flask + 3 pots is definitely #1 choice you have to SURVIVE 90% of lanes until a gank or level 6. I don't think the rest of the build path is very complicated though:
Flask + 3 -> most expensive part of Lich Bane you can afford -> the other part of Lich Bane + boots usually -> finish Lich Bane -> Needlessly Large Rod if you can afford it, otherwise Boots 2 -> Rest of Zhonyas - > DCAP -> DFG
Only hard part for me is figuring out whether I should get Sorc Boots or CDR Boots and that is the type of question that keeps me up at night. I feel like CDR is optimally better but Sorc Boots never lets me down so IDK.
Fizz and Panth are both so damn good right now I want to just quit my job and play all day.
lololol, nice jokez Atrioc. After watching a lot of FateFalls, I'm definitely on the CDR boat. I still don't feel proficient enough to go straight DFG first (still like double Rings, Sheen, Zhonya's/Lich Bane in some order). But the 15% CDR from Ionian boots is too good to pass on imo. Faster ultis and more trollpole in team fights. You're still going to build pretty much glass cannon, so some MPen lost is nothing to write home about.
Looking at Fizz's ult cd makes me wish "catch" champions like Vi/Rengar/Nocturne/etc. had lower cooldowns in general (they're longer than teamfight ults atm).
Still playing Pantheon mid? I assume in s5 with later first ganks it's good for your lane aggro. Do you start flask on him too, or (as your history seems to suggest) long sword+3 pots and try to kill before you run oom?
Yeah this is all mid lane Pantheon who I feel is a MONSTER right now. I've been going sword + 3 -> bruta -> boots 1 -> hydra -> boots 2 -> ESSENCE REAVER hohohoho and then I dont buy any more items after that because I have already won the game every time. (Last two games:
I watched some FateFalls too when I was getting back into Fizz. He's an absolute beast and I think his DFG first build is super sick, but coming from my TL background I will always believe in Korean superiority = P
I think this guy is the best Fizz world (and he still runs Lich -> Zhonyas -> Void or Cap depending on situation.)
On November 30 2014 12:30 Atrioc wrote: Yeah this is all mid lane Pantheon who I feel is a MONSTER right now. I've been going sword + 3 -> bruta -> boots 1 -> hydra -> boots 2 -> ESSENCE REAVER hohohoho and then I dont buy any more items after that because I have already won the game every time. (Last two games:
I watched some FateFalls too when I was getting back into Fizz. He's an absolute beast and I think his DFG first build is super sick, but coming from my TL background I will always believe in Korean superiority = P
I think this guy is the best Fizz world (and he still runs Lich -> Zhonyas -> Void or Cap depending on situation.)
anyone else try a tanky triforce fizz jungle/top lately? in the jungle i've been going devourer/triforce and warmogs/frozen heart/situational 3rd defensive item.
not really sure when i should be getting frozen heart, rushing health before resistances is always better for your EHP, but the extra mana is really convenient and as people have mentioned the 20% CDR is huge. but you also need an early sheen too so there are so many build orders you can choose from.
i'm ending up wanting to go like sheen -> new 600g hp/regen item -> frozen heart if i'm not fed enough to rush triforce and it seems good in theory but there has to be a reason you never see high elo players building parts of 3 different items at once.
i've also been meaning to try to incorporate a zhonya's in my build somewhere, is there any reason i shouldn't if i'm not building any other AP items?
next game i get fed before i buy devourer i really gotta try rushing lichbane + the magus enchant with a full ap build instead, getting an early 80ap and 20% from your jungle item seems like it has a lot of potential.
On December 06 2014 21:36 chalice wrote: anyone else try a tanky triforce fizz jungle/top lately? in the jungle i've been going devourer/triforce and warmogs/frozen heart/situational 3rd defensive item.
not really sure when i should be getting frozen heart, rushing health before resistances is always better for your EHP, but the extra mana is really convenient and as people have mentioned the 20% CDR is huge. but you also need an early sheen too so there are so many build orders you can choose from.
i'm ending up wanting to go like sheen -> new 600g hp/regen item -> frozen heart if i'm not fed enough to rush triforce and it seems good in theory but there has to be a reason you never see high elo players building parts of 3 different items at once.
i've also been meaning to try to incorporate a zhonya's in my build somewhere, is there any reason i shouldn't if i'm not building any other AP items?
next game i get fed before i buy devourer i really gotta try rushing lichbane + the magus enchant with a full ap build instead, getting an early 80ap and 20% from your jungle item seems like it has a lot of potential.
Pretty sure it'd be better to just go AP out of the jungle you are going to do like no damage lategame even with triforce on fizz tbh.
On December 06 2014 21:36 chalice wrote: anyone else try a tanky triforce fizz jungle/top lately? in the jungle i've been going devourer/triforce and warmogs/frozen heart/situational 3rd defensive item.
not really sure when i should be getting frozen heart, rushing health before resistances is always better for your EHP, but the extra mana is really convenient and as people have mentioned the 20% CDR is huge. but you also need an early sheen too so there are so many build orders you can choose from.
i'm ending up wanting to go like sheen -> new 600g hp/regen item -> frozen heart if i'm not fed enough to rush triforce and it seems good in theory but there has to be a reason you never see high elo players building parts of 3 different items at once.
i've also been meaning to try to incorporate a zhonya's in my build somewhere, is there any reason i shouldn't if i'm not building any other AP items?
next game i get fed before i buy devourer i really gotta try rushing lichbane + the magus enchant with a full ap build instead, getting an early 80ap and 20% from your jungle item seems like it has a lot of potential.
Pretty sure it'd be better to just go AP out of the jungle you are going to do like no damage lategame even with triforce on fizz tbh.
i've found that the combination of devourer and triforce with fizz's strong base damage numbers (%hp never sucks) and the tankiness to stay alive long enough to make use of CDR and get multiple rounds of your skills off that the damage seems very respectable for the jungle role.
i'm sure that for a skilled fizz player that full AP is better at carrying games, but as a gold scrub with old man reaction times still learning the champ, i find the extra EHP gives me a nice margin of error so that i don't die whenever my E and zhonya's usage is less than optimal. i also think a tank build out of the jungle is also a lot easier to fit into team compositions when you can rarely count on random tops/supports to provide solid initiations/engages.
one thing i'd really like opinions/theorycraft on is void staff as a last item with only devourer/triforce as offensive items. with devourer and W's magic damage scaling independently of other ap items it seems like the clear biggest dps increase for the item slot, but i wonder if that's going too hybrid with your build and is bad because you're not really getting any multiplicative scaling from either offensive or defensive items.
I've been playing loads of Fizz jungle lately and it's really feast-or-famine. Jungle gold is so low right now that if you aren't catching up by way of kills, you're just devastatingly behind. Magus is a wonderfully gold-efficient item but AP Fizz really needs both Lich Bane and Zhonya's, and that's a ton of gold that you can't get just from farming jungle camps.
As for Triforce Fizz, it's kind of like building Jax isn't it? Take the standard BotRK/TF -> tankiness build, sub out BotRK and replace it with Devourer, and like Jax your Q is a gapcloser, your W is an AA empower, and your E is pseudo-tankiness. You just trade R tankiness/DPS for an engage / burst damage. In general it's a more bursty version of Jax, which is why whenever I try it I just get baited into building AP Fizz anyway.
On December 09 2014 00:23 GrandInquisitor wrote: I've been playing loads of Fizz jungle lately and it's really feast-or-famine. Jungle gold is so low right now that if you aren't catching up by way of kills, you're just devastatingly behind. Magus is a wonderfully gold-efficient item but AP Fizz really needs both Lich Bane and Zhonya's, and that's a ton of gold that you can't get just from farming jungle camps.
As for Triforce Fizz, it's kind of like building Jax isn't it? Take the standard BotRK/TF -> tankiness build, sub out BotRK and replace it with Devourer, and like Jax your Q is a gapcloser, your W is an AA empower, and your E is pseudo-tankiness. You just trade R tankiness/DPS for an engage / burst damage. In general it's a more bursty version of Jax, which is why whenever I try it I just get baited into building AP Fizz anyway.
yeah that's the problem i found when trying to work some AP jungle fizz builds into my repertoire. while it's fine to delay your magus upgrade, the stacking nature of devourer pretty much forces you to commit to one path or the other before you really know if you're going to get the kills you need to complete your lich bane + zhonya's early enough to play as a squishy ap assassin out of the jungle.
i haven't tried it yet, but i'm thinking that the only way to maintain build flexibility is to open devourer + sheen and go AP from there if you are able snowball. while you will certainly miss the 20% cdr and 80ap from magus, at least the on-hit magic damage from devourer will benefit from your sorcs + void staff penetration. until the devourer nerfs go live (and probably after as well) i think you probably lose too much from doing the reverse going magus into tank if you realize you're not going to get the gold you need.
So Quas just played some Fizz top, ended up doubling Maokai's cs at some point (107 to 53, forgot the time) going TF, Wits, to FH. Looked pretty cool with the way W works now. It's kind of late to end up tanky and I'm not sure if it can really survive long enough to deal out the sustained damage, but it looks fun :D Any thoughts?
On February 22 2015 09:30 Apoptotic wrote: So Quas just played some Fizz top, ended up doubling Maokai's cs at some point (107 to 53, forgot the time) going TF, Wits, to FH. Looked pretty cool with the way W works now. It's kind of late to end up tanky and I'm not sure if it can really survive long enough to deal out the sustained damage, but it looks fun :D Any thoughts?
AD/bruiser fizz is the way most people build him now. I haven't seen many people getting wit's end, but frozen heart and triforce are pretty normal.
Oh ic. I'm on the filipino server right now and everything is pretty behind. :l Kinda lame, toplane fizz isn't something I've seen here at all. What are the typical runes and masteries for it?
so the rework made an undocumented change in Fizz' ability mechanics that provides for some interesting item interactions. his W now applies spell effects in addition to on-hit effects so both his Q and W are among the few abilities in the game that apply both.
the first interaction isn't particular useful due to his power curve, but is pretty lol if you get a chance to try it out. because of the way Q and W double dip as single-target spell/on-hit effects he procs the shit out of Muramana. a W -> auto+Q combo will actually proc the Muramana active 5 times almost instantly, twice for the W enhanced auto and three times for the Q (on-hit + Q spell + W spell). with frozen heart being pretty much a core item and IBG and Righteous Glory being viable options, the late-game mana based damage is potentially ridiculous.
in practice though, at least in the jungle, i've found that getting an early tear sets back your mid-game power too much for Muramana to be anything other than extremely situational.
as for the other more promising interaction, i haven't tried it out yet (just now tested to make sure the mechanics work), but W's passive dot now applies/refreshes the Liandry's burn (i'm pretty sure it didn't before the rework). with part of the reason BOTRK is so good on Fizz being the synergy between current %hp and missing %hp i'm not sure that Liandry's can't fill that role.
i think a Sunfire+penetration bruiser build is the alternative to the BOTRK/Triforce path that people have had the most success with, although i've seen people recommending Abyssal instead of Guise/Liandry's for the flat pen. the Sorcs+Guise combo has always been a classic snowball starter build path and i can't really think of many reasons why a Sorcs-Guise-Sunfire early game core won't work well on Fizz.
obviously going from full %hp damage on each hit with BOTRK to only getting a refreshing DOT with Liandry's hurts; but that should be at least partially mitigated by the magic penetration enhancing all of your other damage, the Liandry's burn being magic damage instead of physical with armor values typically being much higher than magic resistance, and Guise providing a better build path/item timing than Cutlass (i think?).
if my math is correct i think you get 13% current hp burn just from landing your ult on someone (five 0.5s ticks while slowed by the fish then three 1% ticks afterwards).
I don't think I'd ever build Tear on Fizz. It just creates too much of a lull during laning phase, the time where you need to bully and get ahead as an assassin.
I've been playing a few games as Top Fizz building the standard BotRK into Trinity/Lucidity/FH and it's working out alright. If anything, it just saddens me how Rito gutted AP Fizz. Before, Fizz still has the burst with WQ along with the AoE splash of E. Now Playful Trickster is literally a one point wonder skill where it helps Fizz move around but it's purely utility. AD Fizz has great dueling potential, pitiful wave clear, and takes down turrets half decently due to the AS from BotRK. I feel like he really suffers now against heavy CC comps because you have to wait on the outskirts of a team fight and way for key enemy CC spells to be used first or for an enemy carry to misposition. AP Fizz could WQ in, E for the AoE splash and slow, then stay alive long enough for Zhonya's for your team to get in range. You definitely have to play a lot more cautiously with the current iteration of Fizz.
I've seen a few Jungle Fizzes that run Skirmisher's/Devourer but tbh, there are a lot of better jungle picks right now, not even counting your typical Lee/J4/Nids.
i've been playing him in the jungle with exhaust as my second summoner and his dueling ability with skirmisher's and exhaust up seems really strong. been going Devourer into Righteous Glory since the RG hp buff (except for the failed tear experiments) and it has been working well.
bruiser Fizz uses the early HP/mana/regen from RG as well as anyone and even with my complete misuse of the active due to inexperience, it really seems to add an entire new initiation dimension to what you can do. without it, it's easy for you to catch up with someone leaving your team too far behind to follow up; with it you pretty much never have to use your E to gapclose and your teammates will be right behind you.
if you time it right you can hopefully E in the middle of the opposing team as the RG slow is about to pop (can you manually activate the slow before the 3 second speed boost is up?) and then come down from your E for up to 3 seconds of an 80%-60% aoe slow.
i just played a couple games going Cinderhulk instead of Devourer on jungle Fizz to try to make a Sorcs/Guise opening work better (with Devourer you either delay your tankiness or flat penetraion too long for it to work well).
maybe it's just that Cinderhulk is overtuned at the moment, but it felt extremely strong. not only was it effective on it's own, but it makes building early damage in the form of flat penetration or BOTRK and getting an early Frozen Heart feel much smoother.
although statwise it's a great item on him, i wonder if investing your initial gold in a delayed power stacking item like Devourer significantly holds back a jungle Fizz's ability to snowball.
On March 26 2015 03:45 NeoIllusions wrote: I don't think I'd ever build Tear on Fizz. It just creates too much of a lull during laning phase, the time where you need to bully and get ahead as an assassin.
I've been playing a few games as Top Fizz building the standard BotRK into Trinity/Lucidity/FH and it's working out alright. If anything, it just saddens me how Rito gutted AP Fizz. Before, Fizz still has the burst with WQ along with the AoE splash of E. Now Playful Trickster is literally a one point wonder skill where it helps Fizz move around but it's purely utility. AD Fizz has great dueling potential, pitiful wave clear, and takes down turrets half decently due to the AS from BotRK. I feel like he really suffers now against heavy CC comps because you have to wait on the outskirts of a team fight and way for key enemy CC spells to be used first or for an enemy carry to misposition. AP Fizz could WQ in, E for the AoE splash and slow, then stay alive long enough for Zhonya's for your team to get in range. You definitely have to play a lot more cautiously with the current iteration of Fizz.
I've seen a few Jungle Fizzes that run Skirmisher's/Devourer but tbh, there are a lot of better jungle picks right now, not even counting your typical Lee/J4/Nids.
The PBE looks like AP Fizz might be pretty good again.
Hopefully now that all the nerfs/buffs to Fizz have quieted down, what do you guys think of jungle AP Fizz? It seems to be really strong, primarily because Runeglaive is insanely good on him while being way cheaper than Lich Bane. It allows him to hit that two item spike of Runeglaive/Zhonya's way earlier, gets him out of his terrible laning phase, adds some CDR to boot, and Runeglaive fixes his mana/clear issues that old jungle Fizz had.
Really I think that mid AP Fizz would want to build Runeglaive over Lich Bane anyway - it's more damage early on, cheaper, gives CDR, and only starts losing out on damage once you get multiple big AP items.
I remember for sure that Nightblu3, who I was watching the other day, listed Fizz in his top 5 junglers to carry hard with in solo q (play these if you want to win--his words). In my opinion, Fizz feels extremely strong, since the jungle does cover up much of his weaknesses
Beautiful Guide! Surely only the Coffee Cow himself could write a guide this spectacular! I owe all my success in League of Legends to the Master Glizzard himself!
EPT
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