you can find my full written guide here
My first guide: Renekton Vs Shen
Second Guide: Renekton Vs Jayce
Third Guide: Renekton Vs Singed
Fourth Guide: Renekton Vs Irelia
Fifth Guide: Renekton Vs Rumble
Forum Index > LoL Strategy |
Souza
74 Posts
you can find my full written guide here My first guide: Renekton Vs Shen Second Guide: Renekton Vs Jayce Third Guide: Renekton Vs Singed Fourth Guide: Renekton Vs Irelia Fifth Guide: Renekton Vs Rumble | ||
HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
My two comments would be to add together a compilation of a bunch of games vs whatever champion to show different ways the lane can go (how to play from behind, how to play when you're ahead, how different junglers can change the matchup, ect); and to focus more on Renekton specific aspects of the game instead of general game concepts (when to back, what to do after a won fight, ect.) since I think there's enough of that stuff floating around as it is. So then you can still have ~10min video, but instead of "after winning a fight take dragon...", you could have "and in this team comp I did this instead of this because...". | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On April 28 2013 08:41 emperorchampion wrote: Always nice to see new content on TL My two comments would be to add together a compilation of a bunch of games vs whatever champion to show different ways the lane can go (how to play from behind, how to play when you're ahead, how different junglers can change the matchup, ect); and to focus more on Renekton specific aspects of the game instead of general game concepts (when to back, what to do after a won fight, ect.) since I think there's enough of that stuff floating around as it is. So then you can still have ~10min video, but instead of "after winning a fight take dragon...", you could have "and in this team comp I did this instead of this because...". Thanks so much for your input, I will be adding much of what you said into my next guide! | ||
obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Jamial
Denmark1289 Posts
I would like more talk about mastery/rune choices depending on matchup, and when to build damage vs. tank (more indepth in that regard! | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On April 28 2013 10:15 Jamial wrote: I like the guide. Very in depth. One thing that my OCD demands me to write: Please stop saying eCscape. It's Escape. There's no "k" sound before s. >< I would like more talk about mastery/rune choices depending on matchup, and when to build damage vs. tank (more indepth in that regard! Sorry try to hide my accent Thanks for the input adding mastery/rune choices will be something I will add into my next video. Building dmg or tank has more to do with team comps and what the other team has but I can do a video on some of the factors that should influence the decision. | ||
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On April 28 2013 19:08 Dusty wrote: You should make a guide on fury-management on Renekton. It's a concept I feel not many know how to grasp, even at the Diamond level. It's also, in my opinion, the hardest and strongest mechanic in Renekton's kit. Yes I 100% agree when I watch other renekton's even pro games its crazy how they throw away fury. It's important to know exactly what your fury is at and how much fury your spells will generate. I plan on doing an in depth video on fury-management in the near future! | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On April 29 2013 07:47 LaM wrote: You always impress when I see your Renekton in game or on stream. Very scary to face Diamond 1 players who only play 1 champ on their champ of choice. Good video too, I didn't notice any problems with your accent so don't worry about it. Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed my gameplay! | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Awesome content, can't wait to see more. Welcome to TL. | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On April 29 2013 21:52 AsmodeusXI wrote: STOP TEACHING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO CROC OUT. + Show Spoiler + Awesome content, can't wait to see more. Welcome to TL. NEVAR!!! | ||
pschiu
Singapore410 Posts
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
Do you stream? | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On April 30 2013 00:54 pschiu wrote: Very helpful vid for me! If you're taking requests, I'd appreciate one against a top lane Zed. I would love to make a video for the Renekton vs Zed match up but I don't have many quality replays with that match up right now. I will try and get some more footage and make a Zed video soon but it all depends on my opponent picking Zed top. | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On April 30 2013 01:13 Mondeezy wrote: Trying to (re)learn croc top since I need tankier tops, thanks for posting these! Looking forward to more Do you stream? I do stream but haven't had much time lately because of final exams. twitch.tv/imnumerouno I should be streaming quite a bit more after this week when my finals are over with. | ||
TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On April 30 2013 01:58 TomatoShark wrote: nice guide is it bad that I do armor pen red armor yellow scaling mr blue 2 ms quint 1 ad and go 21/9? :< The reason I don't take armor pen runes on Renekton is because I try and build my advantages in the early game. Attack Damage > Armor pen early game because of Renekton's high ratios (225% on empowered w). Armor yellows are pretty standard in top lane. Scaling mr blues are only good against top lanes with little magic damage, flat mr blues are more effective against hybrid or ap tops. I feel like the ms quints are a waste against 90% of the common top lane picks, 3 AD quints is the way to go imo. Your rune page is geared toward team fights and offers Renekton very little in lane. Runes are most effective early game so I feel it is more important to get early game stats from runes that increase early game power. Strong early game runes on Renekton are Attack Damage, Flat Armor, Flat Magic Resist, and Cool Down Reduction. I will have a Rune page video guide up either today or tmrw where I will go into more detail and show my 4 rune pages I use and when to use each. As far as going 21/9 it offers slightly more damage than 9/21 in exchange for a huge loss in trading power. You can use 21/9 if you know you will stomp the lane. 21/9 gives you 3 AD, 5 ARP, 2%Damage and 5% increased damage to targets below 50% over the 9/21. I would trade all of that just for the unyielding and block masteries in the defensive tree. The defensive tree is far more effective than the offensive tree on top laners early game and scales better into mid and late game. | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Let's compare empowered Q and W with no AD starting item and 9/21/0 and full AD runes vs AD quints and Apen marks at lvl 3 against a 40 armor target(lvl 1 all skills): Q: Full AD runes: 80 dmg APen Marks, AD Quints: 81 dmg W: Full AD runes: 141 dmg APen Marks, AD Quints: 140 dmg Also, the 2.25 AD ratio is a common misconception. It's pretty much an autoattack, so it only has a 1.25 AD bonus ratio. In addition, it is off all AD instead of bonus AD, which means that it includes your base AD as well and hence leads into the rune portion being significantly smaller than expected. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On April 30 2013 04:02 Shikyo wrote: Actually, full AD is only better than Apen marks AD quints until lvl 3 and afterwards becomes better, especially if you go for a Brutalizer or Doran Blades. Let's compare empowered Q and W with no AD starting item and 9/21/0 and full AD runes vs AD quints and Apen marks at lvl 3 against a 40 armor target(lvl 1 all skills): Q: Full AD runes: 80 dmg APen Marks, AD Quints: 81 dmg W: Full AD runes: 141 dmg APen Marks, AD Quints: 140 dmg Just did the math myself and you are right about empowered, however non empowered resulted the with AD runes coming out slightly ahead. Attack damage imo is still better because Renekton All-ins occur at level 2 (sometimes level 3) where AD runes come out slightly ahead. AD runes also help last hitting. I think it is very close and I ran AD quits and Apen marks for a long time before switching, I guess it all depends on if you can gain an advantage between levels 1-3 or not. Also, the 2.25 AD ratio is a common misconception. It's pretty much an autoattack, so it only has a 1.25 AD bonus ratio. In addition, it is off all AD instead of bonus AD, which means that it includes your base AD as well and hence leads into the rune portion being significantly smaller than expected. You raised a great point about the W ratio being base AD leading to AD runes being less effective but the 2.25 ratio is not a misconception. The reasoning is that W resets your auto attack animation so saying one of the auto attacks doesn't count is wrong and means the ability is not being used to its fullest. W should be used immediately after an auto attack. | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On April 30 2013 05:07 Souza wrote: Show nested quote + On April 30 2013 04:02 Shikyo wrote: Actually, full AD is only better than Apen marks AD quints until lvl 3 and afterwards becomes better, especially if you go for a Brutalizer or Doran Blades. Let's compare empowered Q and W with no AD starting item and 9/21/0 and full AD runes vs AD quints and Apen marks at lvl 3 against a 40 armor target(lvl 1 all skills): Q: Full AD runes: 80 dmg APen Marks, AD Quints: 81 dmg W: Full AD runes: 141 dmg APen Marks, AD Quints: 140 dmg Just did the math myself and you are right about empowered, however non empowered resulted the with AD runes coming out slightly ahead. Attack damage imo is still better because Renekton All-ins occur at level 2 (sometimes level 3) where AD runes come out slightly ahead. AD runes also help last hitting. I think it is very close and I ran AD quits and Apen marks for a long time before switching, I guess it all depends on if you can gain an advantage between levels 1-3 or not. Show nested quote + Also, the 2.25 AD ratio is a common misconception. It's pretty much an autoattack, so it only has a 1.25 AD bonus ratio. In addition, it is off all AD instead of bonus AD, which means that it includes your base AD as well and hence leads into the rune portion being significantly smaller than expected. You raised a great point about the W ratio being base AD leading to AD runes being less effective but the 2.25 ratio is not a misconception. The reasoning is that W resets your auto attack animation so saying one of the auto attacks doesn't count is wrong and means the ability is not being used to its fullest. W should be used immediately after an auto attack. That's not exactly what I meant. If it was just off bonus dmg for example the difference would be between 38 and 20, almost double, whereas here it's between 178 and 160. Also I guess we just think differently about this, it's all sementics anyway and doesn't really matter. Just pointing out that the AD ratio isn't really as solid a reason for having AD over Apen in this case because it includes the base AD as well. I didn't know he could allin effectively at lvl 2 though, and it's true that for that level full AD is better. Shows what I know. It's weird if AD comes out ahead of Apen when it's not empowered because it's supposed to just be 2/3 the damage and so the apen amplification should be the same. For example if you do 3 autoattacks, all 3 hits should be dealing the same damage. Just like with Renekton W, when he has no Fury he should be doing 2 attacks of 5 + 75% AD and with Fury 3, so the armor to Apen difference really should not be there. Too lazy to calculate though as it's so late. Oh right, and awaiting your next video, hopefully it's soon. | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On April 30 2013 04:04 sylverfyre wrote: What about something like 17/13 which lets you grab Unyielding/Block but no further defense masteries? You get most (but not all) of the direct durability like that, giving up mostly honor guard, bonus% HP (doesnt really help early) armor/MR based on # of opponents (ok but not amazing in lane against a non-mixed opponent, better in teamfights) or tenacity (already a choice) I had the exact same thoughts about a month ago and began running 17/13 but 4 points get wasted in the offense tree imo. The 3 points in Havoc and 1 point in Butcher give almost nothing to Renekton all we are really getting is 3 AD and 2 Apen. I feel like the extra utility and defense stats from 9/21 make these build about even in lane but unlike the 17/13 build 9/21 scales into mid and late game making it the clear choice in my mind. | ||
Souza
74 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
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Flopplop
5 Posts
Any tips? | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
You're doing something rather niche, keep making vids of Renek v X and update them in your OP. And it's fine if you mistakes in vids, it's actually normal if you do. Just point them out and rectify/explain what you messed up on. Good work mang, keep it up. | ||
TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QtMMkhgAo | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On May 06 2013 07:37 Flopplop wrote: I got dumpstered on by garen. After my dash stun he Qs me and spin to win... Ended up trading harder than me i had to use empowered Qs to heal up... didnt really die to him but i felt like i did nothing and we ended up losing.. Any tips? You can trade even with his low level spins with just auto attacks, worst thing you can do is just turn and run. This lane often feels like you are running into a brick wall but if you keep Garen's passive off you will out sustain him forcing him from lane or netting you a kill. So keep trading and make sure to never get silenced without your w activated and look for a kill at level 6. | ||
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On May 12 2013 20:38 zer0das wrote: That vs Jayce video was very informative. Glad you're working on assembling clips for a vs Elise video too. Not many people play elise top atm so I only gotten 3 elise replays in the past 2 months but it might be enough to cover everything I want to cover. Worst case scenario I get a buddy to 1v1 me as elise until I can get enough clips | ||
Simberto
Germany11043 Posts
I have started to play renekton against pretty much anything to get at least one stable top champion, and this is the matchup that gives me the most problems so far. Of course that might all be just because i play it completely wrong, so it would be nice to know how i am supposed to play it. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Early Ninja Tabis go a long way vs someone like Quinn - at some point you essentially start ignoring her damage entirely, shoving with Q and trading when you decide. | ||
101toss
3232 Posts
1. don't die to all-ins 2. buy armguard your move | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On May 13 2013 22:44 101toss wrote: how to play nunu vs renekton: 1. don't die to all-ins 2. buy armguard your move Haven't played the lane that much both times i've played it they die to the all-ins, so I don't know how to play the lane against great nunu's | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On May 13 2013 21:55 sylverfyre wrote: I'd imagine it should feel very similar to the vs. Jayce matchup. Shove quick, get 2 first, trade with abilities, trade then dodge into bush, don't eat too many skillshots. Like many vs. ranged characters, you want W/E early. Don't use W if you're blind (though I believe? that the stun goes off anyway, but you lose a ton of damage.) Early Ninja Tabis go a long way vs someone like Quinn - at some point you essentially start ignoring her damage entirely, shoving with Q and trading when you decide. This^^^ against almost every champ that can poke Renekton I use this general strat. Push so they are forced to last hit minions over hitting me. Try to take level advantages and get trades off. Ninja tabi into sunfire and run ghost ignite so you can get free kills with ghost and ult. | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On May 15 2013 02:56 krndandaman wrote: what are the most common lane opponents you face as renekton? Jayce is the most common lane opponent for Renekton atm because jayce can farm fairly safely against Renekton | ||
Souza
74 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buePRiq7Mas | ||
101toss
3232 Posts
i hear it's op | ||
Serendipityx
United States595 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCZVQrfSnY4 | ||
Brambled
United States750 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On June 06 2013 10:02 Brambled wrote: The video seems extra dark and volume is low. Nice short and to the point video though. Thanks for the feedback i'll look into my audio and video settings, I have been trying to shorten these guides and make them more to the point with every sentence being some useful information. I think 2:30 or 3 minute videos are the perfect length to deliver the strategy while not seeming like a lecture. | ||
-ZergGirl
United States54 Posts
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
@Blyf Glad you guys enjoyed my guides i'm working on Renekton vs Rumble next! | ||
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Also I just wanted to say your Jayce advice was really good. Helped me win against a decent Jayce for the first time (without any jungle help) as Renekton (popping ult to force him back and gain a cs advantage is really useful tactic), I've always struggled with the matchup in the past. Although I will say you make pushing the lane and ducking into the bush look way easier than it actually is haha. I probably just need to practice it a bit more. My Renekton win rate has surged past 70% at the gold level, your guides have definitely helped me be more confident in how to approach certain matchups and what the croc is capable of. Some of it was stuff I already sort of knew but never really thought about consciously, other parts are things I never knew. You've been an awesome resource, and I'm surprised more people haven't been saying that. The vs Irelia guide matches my experiences extremely well. I played that matchup so many times in the preseason. I haven't run into many Irelias these days, so I imagine a lot of other people don't have much experience with the matchup. | ||
snpnx
Germany454 Posts
I play both characters a lot, so I'd really like to see what you think about the matchup. | ||
Sandster
United States4054 Posts
One of the biggest troubles I have, which stems from my lack of experience top lane, is when I win my lane and push down t1 turret in the mid game, opening me to roam. However I often have a hard time making plays or taking objectives on the rest of the map before the wave is shoved back at my turret, and since I don't want my lane opponent to catch back up I often end up split pushing all the way to their t2 turret (usually warding their jungle). A fed Renekton is so strong around this time that I really feel continuing to push top is wasting his power peak, but I'm not sure how to handle this situation since I don't want to lose my turret or miss out on several waves of farm. I'm more used to champs like Shen or Jax that can just sit top. Any advice here? | ||
Souza
74 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On June 07 2013 01:27 snpnx wrote: Nice guides, could you do one on Renek vs Riven? I play both characters a lot, so I'd really like to see what you think about the matchup. It's a tough matchup to describe because the skill level of Riven really determines how the lane will play out. I haven't played many good Riven players lately so I'll have to see if I have the footage needed to make the video. If I do I will make Renekton Vs Riven after I finish a Renekton Vs Rumble guide i'm working on! | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On June 07 2013 02:22 Sandster wrote: I wanted to say thank you for these great Renekton guides. I've played him almost exclusively in top lane for the past couple weeks with very good results. One of the biggest troubles I have, which stems from my lack of experience top lane, is when I win my lane and push down t1 turret in the mid game, opening me to roam. However I often have a hard time making plays or taking objectives on the rest of the map before the wave is shoved back at my turret, and since I don't want my lane opponent to catch back up I often end up split pushing all the way to their t2 turret (usually warding their jungle). A fed Renekton is so strong around this time that I really feel continuing to push top is wasting his power peak, but I'm not sure how to handle this situation since I don't want to lose my turret or miss out on several waves of farm. I'm more used to champs like Shen or Jax that can just sit top. Any advice here? Glad you enjoyed my guides! So roaming is all about understanding game flow, so many different factors come into play when determining when to roam. Below is just a few that I was thinking about when trying to answer your question hope it helps! I will be doing a "Renekton Quick Tips" soon on roaming i'll add it here when i'm done! So the biggest thing with roaming like you said is to be able to get back to your tower before you miss a huge wave. So, you have to figure out how much time you have before the wave will hit your tower. Is he trying to freeze the lane or is he just shoving as hard as he can? The amount of time you have determines what you can do with the roam. Even if you take tower and you are stomping your lane sometimes roaming isn't even a good option. If your mid lane is weak or doesn't perform well in ganks (no cc/weak burst) roaming there won't be worth it. Roaming for dragon when your team is behind could end poorly even when you have the 5v4 advantage. If your team can win a 4v4 successfully then its better for you to stay top and continue to dominate your opposing laner. You want your roams to be worth it meaning if you lose 5 cs to roam you need to make more than that back. When you roam you need to gain some kind of an advantage if you can't don't bother roaming, just apply a ton of pressure on top lane. | ||
snpnx
Germany454 Posts
On June 07 2013 04:41 Souza wrote: Show nested quote + On June 07 2013 01:27 snpnx wrote: Nice guides, could you do one on Renek vs Riven? I play both characters a lot, so I'd really like to see what you think about the matchup. It's a tough matchup to describe because the skill level of Riven really determines how the lane will play out. I haven't played many good Riven players lately so I'll have to see if I have the footage needed to make the video. If I do I will make Renekton Vs Riven after I finish a Renekton Vs Rumble guide i'm working on! Thanks | ||
Souza
74 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2a_5TID17w | ||
NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Souza
74 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:22 kongoline wrote: one thing i learned from youngbuck stream (renek main) is to AA once before using W which resets ur aa animation u get max dmg that way, oh and ofc paying attention to ur fury bar 50+ fury W hurts A LOT Renekton's abilities can all cut some of your auto attack animation making for faster trades. Your Q and E can be used right after your auto attack does damage which is a little after half way though the animation. Renekton's that know this can finish a full trade (E-->AA-->Q-->AA-->W-->AA-->E) about 1 second faster than someone who waits for the animations to finish. | ||
Mauzel
United States421 Posts
Thanks man. | ||
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
I realize that Kennen is just a hard lane for Renekton. I am wondering if it is possible to gracefully lose vs it. So, I'll just go over some of the obvious problems I have with this match-up. Kennen just harasses me from 6 billion range.. If I try to EWQ combo onto him I eat a free combo from him (Even if he just blew his charged AA, he just blows EQW-> follow up auto attacks while I try to flee). As long as I dodge his Q, I feel like I can sustain myself after lv 3 with my clear. Especially if he ever burns EW to push a wave, I can match his push with my combo just as easily.. Or punish him if he sticks around close enough that I can dash to him (But, I don't feel that this matters much because of his sustain.) However, I just can't seem to push out ahead of him. I'm wondering if perhaps I should just try to call for a lane swap or to just farm it out as best as possible. Thanks! | ||
Deleted User 45971
533 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 17 2013 18:24 OdinOfPergo wrote: Hi friends! I realize that Kennen is just a hard lane for Renekton. I am wondering if it is possible to gracefully lose vs it. So, I'll just go over some of the obvious problems I have with this match-up. Kennen just harasses me from 6 billion range.. If I try to EWQ combo onto him I eat a free combo from him (Even if he just blew his charged AA, he just blows EQW-> follow up auto attacks while I try to flee). As long as I dodge his Q, I feel like I can sustain myself after lv 3 with my clear. Especially if he ever burns EW to push a wave, I can match his push with my combo just as easily.. Or punish him if he sticks around close enough that I can dash to him (But, I don't feel that this matters much because of his sustain.) However, I just can't seem to push out ahead of him. I'm wondering if perhaps I should just try to call for a lane swap or to just farm it out as best as possible. Thanks! Look for the LCS game of VES, where Cris had a renekton matchup against kennen. He won the lane by shoving out the lane early and then backing because kennen can't shove fast enough. Then shoving it out again, rinse and repeat. Of course make sure to ward river. | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On June 17 2013 20:37 Potatisodlaren wrote: Your videos are a bit outdated since they highlight you getting to start with extra experience and fury which is no longer possible. The Jayce matchup is especially hard for me, I just get pushed no matter what. If he pokes me he gets creep aggro which causes the lane to push and if I'm out of auto range he just auto-q push lane and I get in the situation which you mention is bad, getting pushed to tower and constantly poked. I just can't seem to get the lane pushed at all to be in a position to go at him like you do with your exp-boosted examples unless I get help from a jungler. You need to accept that you will get poked early on while trying to get the lane in the position I show in the video. Start Q if you feel that you get pushed in too hard and use Q to help you shove. I play the lane the exact same way as I show in the video without the extra exp. Starting rejuve 5 hp pot I trade 2-3 health pots to get to level 2 (W->E) and get the wave lined up next to the bush so I can dodge into it to avoid poke and its smooth sailing from there. The only thing that changes from the video is it takes an extra pot to sustain the extra poke due to the delayed level 2. If you are having that much trouble just start with Q and then there is no way Jayce can push in on you. It sounds like you are playing far too safe and just taking poke for no reason, if you are getting poked you better be getting last hits, trading, or pushing the lane. If he just spam autos the minions what is stopping you from doing the same? | ||
Souza
74 Posts
On June 18 2013 10:15 wei2coolman wrote: Show nested quote + On June 17 2013 18:24 OdinOfPergo wrote: Hi friends! I realize that Kennen is just a hard lane for Renekton. I am wondering if it is possible to gracefully lose vs it. So, I'll just go over some of the obvious problems I have with this match-up. Kennen just harasses me from 6 billion range.. If I try to EWQ combo onto him I eat a free combo from him (Even if he just blew his charged AA, he just blows EQW-> follow up auto attacks while I try to flee). As long as I dodge his Q, I feel like I can sustain myself after lv 3 with my clear. Especially if he ever burns EW to push a wave, I can match his push with my combo just as easily.. Or punish him if he sticks around close enough that I can dash to him (But, I don't feel that this matters much because of his sustain.) However, I just can't seem to push out ahead of him. I'm wondering if perhaps I should just try to call for a lane swap or to just farm it out as best as possible. Thanks! Look for the LCS game of VES, where Cris had a renekton matchup against kennen. He won the lane by shoving out the lane early and then backing because kennen can't shove fast enough. Then shoving it out again, rinse and repeat. Of course make sure to ward river. Against good ken's I just spam shove with a solid ward. He can't push back unless he uses his abilities on minions and if he does this he is a non-threat. Against ken I try and get close to him right after he throws his auto attack proc on a minion and try to use E and Stun him during/before lightning rush. As long as you don't have a mark on you you will be able to get off a solid trade. If you do this you must land E or you will be in big trouble if he dodges and kites you. I like Ghost in this matchup because Ken is easy to kill if you can stick to him and Ghost does a better job than Flash. If Ken is ever pushed to your tower just ghost ult and kill him he can't run all the way to tower before he dies. | ||
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 18 2013 13:08 Souza wrote: Show nested quote + On June 18 2013 10:15 wei2coolman wrote: On June 17 2013 18:24 OdinOfPergo wrote: Hi friends! I realize that Kennen is just a hard lane for Renekton. I am wondering if it is possible to gracefully lose vs it. So, I'll just go over some of the obvious problems I have with this match-up. Kennen just harasses me from 6 billion range.. If I try to EWQ combo onto him I eat a free combo from him (Even if he just blew his charged AA, he just blows EQW-> follow up auto attacks while I try to flee). As long as I dodge his Q, I feel like I can sustain myself after lv 3 with my clear. Especially if he ever burns EW to push a wave, I can match his push with my combo just as easily.. Or punish him if he sticks around close enough that I can dash to him (But, I don't feel that this matters much because of his sustain.) However, I just can't seem to push out ahead of him. I'm wondering if perhaps I should just try to call for a lane swap or to just farm it out as best as possible. Thanks! Look for the LCS game of VES, where Cris had a renekton matchup against kennen. He won the lane by shoving out the lane early and then backing because kennen can't shove fast enough. Then shoving it out again, rinse and repeat. Of course make sure to ward river. Against good ken's I just spam shove with a solid ward. He can't push back unless he uses his abilities on minions and if he does this he is a non-threat. Against ken I try and get close to him right after he throws his auto attack proc on a minion and try to use E and Stun him during/before lightning rush. As long as you don't have a mark on you you will be able to get off a solid trade. If you do this you must land E or you will be in big trouble if he dodges and kites you. I like Ghost in this matchup because Ken is easy to kill if you can stick to him and Ghost does a better job than Flash. If Ken is ever pushed to your tower just ghost ult and kill him he can't run all the way to tower before he dies. At level 1 Kennen doesn't have much kill potential or push potential. If you start the shove as Renekton you'll reach level 2 before Kennen, and there's nothing he can do to kill you. Remember the key is not to die; but you can get harassed on as Renekton during shove, cuz you just gunna back anyways. | ||
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Also, the guides gave me the confidence to have the killer instinct to dive into the the enemy team 1v5 when the situation calls for it, which used to be a huge weakness of mine when playing croc because I didn't know his potential and just played scared. I don't think I ever truly realized how ridiculous Renekton was until I figured out you just build tanky with a brutalizer, ult and walk into an entire enemy team and cause so much havoc with his tankiness and AOE damage. It was pretty much perfect for me because playing Jax taught me how to be an anti-carry, and Renekton plays similarly in terms of where he should be in a teamfight, but he's more like an anti-enemy team champion that excels in the midgame. This unlocked most of the fun in the champion for me. Successfully going in 1v5 as croc, knowing the enemy team can't effectively deal with you until your team can followup is so much fun. I can't even count the number of games I've won mid-game by just eviscerating the enemy team at dragon or baron with a vengeance. People have made so many positive comments about my Renekton play, because he just takes games into his jaws and rips them to shreds when played well. I highly, highly recommend people who want to learn a new, strong top laner read these guides in depth and watch all of the videos. Also, are you ever going to get to the versus Elise video or are your prioritizes elsewhere at the moment? Elise top has made a bit of a resurgence lately (though I'm guessing it will probably die off again after her spiderlings tanking tower after rappel gets changed), and she's pretty much the only champion that I still have massive issues against. Pushing the wave and forcing her to last hit at tower helps, but I feel like I'm beating extremely sub-par Elises when I win, and can't do anything at all against a good one. | ||
cLutZ
United States19554 Posts
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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Hyren
United States817 Posts
At this point I decided I needed a vamp scepter to match her sustain since she now had w leveled up quite a bit. This seemed to work fine, but I didn't know what to do with the vamp scepter. I ended up just sitting on it the whole game because there was never a point that I thought I could afford to invest in another damage item. If I think i'm going to go vamp scepter anyways should I just skip brutalizer and build tiamat (and later hydra) as my one damage item? | ||
snpnx
Germany454 Posts
On August 03 2013 14:02 Hyren wrote: I laned against an Irelia today and it started really well. I missed out on killing her early by about 30 health and force her to back by level 3. I went brutalizer first and after nearly missing out on a kill again I successfully dove with my jungler but he got the kill. At this point I decided I needed a vamp scepter to match her sustain since she now had w leveled up quite a bit. This seemed to work fine, but I didn't know what to do with the vamp scepter. I ended up just sitting on it the whole game because there was never a point that I thought I could afford to invest in another damage item. If I think i'm going to go vamp scepter anyways should I just skip brutalizer and build tiamat (and later hydra) as my one damage item? Not sure if the vamp-scepter is really needed. Even though Irelia has really strong sustain, with pots and good usage of Q you shouldn't be that much outclassed. I'd still go sunfire cape vs her, maybe a dorans if you need a bit more sustain. | ||
Hyren
United States817 Posts
On August 07 2013 20:24 snpnx wrote: Show nested quote + On August 03 2013 14:02 Hyren wrote: I laned against an Irelia today and it started really well. I missed out on killing her early by about 30 health and force her to back by level 3. I went brutalizer first and after nearly missing out on a kill again I successfully dove with my jungler but he got the kill. At this point I decided I needed a vamp scepter to match her sustain since she now had w leveled up quite a bit. This seemed to work fine, but I didn't know what to do with the vamp scepter. I ended up just sitting on it the whole game because there was never a point that I thought I could afford to invest in another damage item. If I think i'm going to go vamp scepter anyways should I just skip brutalizer and build tiamat (and later hydra) as my one damage item? Not sure if the vamp-scepter is really needed. Even though Irelia has really strong sustain, with pots and good usage of Q you shouldn't be that much outclassed. I'd still go sunfire cape vs her, maybe a dorans if you need a bit more sustain. Yeah I was having a bit of a love affair with Hydra and liked the lifesteal in lane, but but after playing him pretty extensively over the last week I decided it really didn't work with Renekton as well as, say, Lee Sin unless I was already snowballing pretty hard. Would rather stick with Brutalizer as my main damage item and buy health pots as necessary. | ||
Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
Also you dont need vampiric for sustain, since you max Q first, your empowered Q is pretty good at sustaining in lane. | ||
nath
United States1788 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11043 Posts
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
Especially what you think about early trading, I played the matchup and asked my jungler to camp top, which helped me win my lane eventually, but it took 2-3 ganks and the other lanes lost (not because they were camped but if my Jungler could've helped them, it might've been better). Am I as dependent on the Jungler as it seemed for me, or do you have some tips on how to play this matchup better with less help from jungle? | ||
TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
Do you ever start dorans blade? I went it vs a Nasus recently, won lane really easily but he also wasn't that good and pretty sure I could have opened whatever I wanted and still won the lane. | ||
Arisen
United States2382 Posts
So my question is how to build for this matchup: So, on my first back, I had around 1300 gold (I think, it was 50g short of buying hexdrinker). When playing vs vlad, I like to rush a hexdrinker because the AD combined with the hexdrinker passive is really nice when I want to play aggressive. However, I didnt really know if I should come back to lane with a longsword+null+boots+ward; I decided to opt for double dorans here and then picked up hexdrinker on my next back (they had like naut, kat, blitz, vlad and Varus, so hexdrinker was a pretty great choice into the game). First off, is this the right decision? I delayed getting the hexdrinker for a while but instead got some nice tankyness and some room to bully him some more in lane with that tankiness. Usually I try not to buy 2 dorans unless I really want to either snowball a lane with that extra tankiness so I can bully, or if I need the tankiness to survive. I usually pick up either none and go straight for hydra (or sun-fire, or hexdrinker; depending on match up) . However in this case I felt that heading back with that amount of tankiness would buy me room to pressure top super hard and get the jungler to maybe gank me and waste his time. After I completed hexdrinker, I went for a sunfire. In most matchups I will go for a hydra because I think it works well with renektons W and gives you some nice damage to really help out in those midgame teamfights. I really don't know when or if I should build Sunfire after that. The really great thing about sunfire on renekton is that you become this really, really tanky person with your ult that does a ton of AOE damage, so you can really bully out any enemy AD in midgame teamfights; as the game wears on sunfire loses some appeal though as the damage component gets less relevant and you just need more armor/MR to be that tanky guy who the enemy carries have to run from. My logic here was I was pressuring second tower; Vlad was being very conservative (He maxxed his pool first and rushed that jungler item that vlads get, so It was really hard to dive him, so I didnt bother after I saw his pool was up as often as my E), so I couldnt really bully him any more, and Bot was even(ish, the kill counts were in thier favor, but only 1 or 2 went to the ad carry and we got a tower out of the deal, so our AD carries had around the same gold), but mid was winning. I figured if I went for a really quick sunfire I could get tanky enough to really force some fights midgame; we had amumu so it seemed like a good play to go for the massive AOE midgame. Is this also the right call? Usually after my damage item (Usually hydra, but sometimes hex, sometimes sunfire), I go straight for a randuins or spirit visage if I'm worried about enemy AP. In this situation I felt confident I could end the game by Just getting in front of the group and making some good dives happen. This is a big probelm I have, when is it OK to go for sunfire after a damage item? When is too late for it to be a good buy? Just some questions I have about renekton builds, thanks for the help! | ||
IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
That was during Red Pot meta, and a lot has changed since then. Very few people start red pot now (not that you can't, it's just not nearly as strong as before). Not only that, you shared blue exp with your jungler, which gave you an earlier lv 2, which DESTROYS Shen, especially if you slow push on top of that to gain a full 2 level advantage (holy shit talk about lop-sided matchups). Both these facts result in an INSANELY powerful tower dive. I can't tell if he started Red Pot or not, but it doesn't look like it, so you probably could've gotten first blood on your own much sooner (though it'd obviously be a bit riskier). Currently, you wouldn't have gotten the level advantage you had unless you played a bit more aggressively, which would also push the lane in a bit faster. Also, in terms of the current build meta, you have 2 ("competitive") options: 1) Tiamat->Standard Sunfire Tank, or 2) Standard Sunfire Tank. You can also go Hydra->LW->GA->Tank if you're in Solo Queue. In those days, another thing you could to to cheese your opponent, is steal the Wraiths, and come into lane and level 2 all in immediately. It's what a lot of Rivens did, and it gave a lot of first bloods. =.= Even if they know it's coming, they end up denying themselves CS passively because they know if they go for CS they will die 100%. Also, do you still insist on Rejuv Bead+5? Doran's Shield+1 is the current standard. The difference is 500 hp and 1 ward for 1 hp/s and 8 hp per champion auto. If you just REALLY want the early ward, then yeah, there's basically no other reasonable start. Also, it'd be nice to see footage of you entering lane and the positions you guard from (if any). Since the Shen video is old, I have the feeling you might be cheesing these matchups pretty hard (which is actually pretty difficult if you start W first unless you buff exp share, you need Q to Wraith/Wolf cheese). The reason I say this is because in the vs Irelia video, you're shown starting off with level 2 vs 1, and 50+ fury. So I'm 90% sure you shared buff exp (since you got level 2 with just 1 wave of exp), which gave you a huge boost in lane, which is not possible anymore without hard fucking your Jungler. Also, that Irelia isn't very good. Or, he hasn't mastered Irelia to the extent that you've mastered Renekton. Irelia is supposed to start E first against melees (Q vs ranged). He started Q first against you, which makes his ability to trade relatively poor. He follows up by skilling W, which is best for a passive lane, intent on farming (most likely under tower). However, he tries to go ham on you repeatedly when his damage is poor compared to yours. If he goes E->Q or even E->W his trade potential raises quite a bit, since you can't just get in and drop 100% free damage on him. And him starting E at level 1 (in current meta) allows him to trade fairly evenly with you. (It's enough to outtrade any poor Renekton, though a high level Renekton should at least go about even, if not slightly ahead.) It'd be nice if you could get a video against a good Irelia in the current meta (no buff exp). Too bad you probably can't ask Wickd, though Voyboy or Dyrus should provide fairly decent substitutes (more-so Voyboy than Dyrus). And I feel like Singed made the same mistake as you did in your vs Shen video. When ult is down, don't overstay vs a Renekton that you know has both ult and Ignite up with ~40% hp, although Shen doesn't have the same kind of kill potential vs anyone like Renekton has vs Singed with no ult. T.T Meta back then favored Renekton more than it does now (not saying it doesn't favor Renekton though). Updated videos would be nice, if you ever get around to them. | ||
ZataN
New Zealand414 Posts
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Artunit
Philippines398 Posts
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