[Champion] Vi - Page 4

Scip

Czech Republic11293 Posts

May 26 2013 14:59 GMT

#61

I generally find that Tenacity is pretty overrated, especially on junglers that have really good burst but their sustain in teamfights is quite suspect (in Vi's case, it is because of her inability to stick to targets well). When you compare Brutalizer vs. Lizard Elder, Lizard gives you 20 more AD and the true dmg passive, while brutalizer gives you 10 more armor pen, which is a clear (although not a very large) advantage to Lizard.

The thing is, if you choose to build Brutalizer+Ancient Golem, you will be stronger than Lizard Elder+Locket for the 550 gold* that Ancient Golem is finished and Locket is not, but you will be weaker for the 1300 gold until Ancient Golem is finished. We have discussed whether Locket or Golem is better in the general discussion, and while in this case Locket is more of an investment**, the increased offensive strength (and farming speed) from Lizard and the questionable utility of Tenacity given your already suspect sustained damage in larger fights still makes Locket the better choice.

Zephyr is clearly a terrible choice, it just makes no sense I agree. As a follow-up to Lizard Elder+Locket I usually go Bulwark and Randuins, if the enemy has excessive amount of magic dmg I might go Hexdrinker or just Negatron Cloak (if the enemy team has that much magic damage, your team will hopefully get double Bulwark in time). After combination of these items Brutalizer->Black Cleaver is my offensive item of choice, it will put you at just about 40% CDR, which is nice.

*using gold as a measurement of time here
**note that the extra 550 gold you pay is spent on extra armor at just about Chain Vest cost efficiency

Alaric

France45622 Posts

May 26 2013 15:36 GMT

#62

Where do you find the remaining 10% CDR? Do you get some in your runes, and 4% from masteries (running 21-9-0 I guess, which I should switch to)?

Scip

Czech Republic11293 Posts

May 26 2013 17:32 GMT

#63

4% from offensive masteries, 7.5% from flat CDR blues. Yes, I use 21/9/0 masteries

Xenocide_Knight

Korea (South)2625 Posts

May 27 2013 02:57 GMT

#64

On May 26 2013 23:59 Scip wrote:
I generally find that Tenacity is pretty overrated, especially on junglers that have really good burst but their sustain in teamfights is quite suspect (in Vi's case, it is because of her inability to stick to targets well). When you compare Brutalizer vs. Lizard Elder, Lizard gives you 20 more AD and the true dmg passive, while brutalizer gives you 10 more armor pen, which is a clear (although not a very large) advantage to Lizard.

The thing is, if you choose to build Brutalizer+Ancient Golem, you will be stronger than Lizard Elder+Locket for the 550 gold* that Ancient Golem is finished and Locket is not, but you will be weaker for the 1300 gold until Ancient Golem is finished. We have discussed whether Locket or Golem is better in the general discussion, and while in this case Locket is more of an investment**, the increased offensive strength (and farming speed) from Lizard and the questionable utility of Tenacity given your already suspect sustained damage in larger fights still makes Locket the better choice.

Zephyr is clearly a terrible choice, it just makes no sense I agree. As a follow-up to Lizard Elder+Locket I usually go Bulwark and Randuins, if the enemy has excessive amount of magic dmg I might go Hexdrinker or just Negatron Cloak (if the enemy team has that much magic damage, your team will hopefully get double Bulwark in time). After combination of these items Brutalizer->Black Cleaver is my offensive item of choice, it will put you at just about 40% CDR, which is nice.

*using gold as a measurement of time here
**note that the extra 550 gold you pay is spent on extra armor at just about Chain Vest cost efficiency

Yea you're right, Lizard Elder+Locket seems a lot stronger than Bruta+Golem. One thing to keep in mind though is that Lizard Elder is a dead end Item while Brutalizer can be upgraded to BC which I feel could really help out in the later stages of the game. Also, the value of Locket decreases if your support ends up getting it since you can't stack the actives for 8 seconds.

Also, any particular reason for 21/9/0? I run 19/10/1 because I feel the crit masteries are completely useless and instead put a point each into summoner's resolve and summoner's insight for smite/flash respectively.

Scip

Czech Republic11293 Posts

May 27 2013 03:18 GMT

#65

As for 21/9/0, I just take 2% attack speed in order to be able to get the Executioner mastery, that+the attack speed is worth more than 3.5 armor (I use ghost).
As for Locket getting less useful as your teammates get one too, that is kinda true, but at lvl 13 that is still 90hp aura for all of your teammates (aura that doesn't need to be sustained; you can be the first person to die and it's fine).
While it is true that Brutalizer+Golem is more slot efficient, that shouldn't be a concern, since your most likely next 2 items (Bulwark+Randuins) are extremely expensive and it is quite rare that you get to finish both of them before the game is over.

komokun

France343 Posts

May 28 2013 13:47 GMT

#66

On May 27 2013 12:18 Scip wrote:
As for 21/9/0, I just take 2% attack speed in order to be able to get the Executioner mastery, that+the attack speed is worth more than 3.5 armor (I use ghost).
As for Locket getting less useful as your teammates get one too, that is kinda true, but at lvl 13 that is still 90hp aura for all of your teammates (aura that doesn't need to be sustained; you can be the first person to die and it's fine).
While it is true that Brutalizer+Golem is more slot efficient, that shouldn't be a concern, since your most likely next 2 items (Bulwark+Randuins) are extremely expensive and it is quite rare that you get to finish both of them before the game is over.

75% of the time I build the same way as Scip, with 21/9 Locket/Lizard but I always feel sad when I compare to how broken it was on Vi prenerf and when locket/lizard were really broken.

Otherwise I go full tank 9/21 Golems -> tabi -> aegis/bulwark -> randuins when people picking after me make it clear that I'm going to be the only initiation. The playstyle then is more tricky as you usually have to go back to peel for the adc after disrupting the enemy with Vault breaker and ulti as you can't really kill squishy as well as the other build. I'm still always amazed at how tanky she is in this version, the passive shield is pretty sick when you have a basillion hp/armor and the armor shred is always nice when you're playing bodyguards for your carry. I don't ever build phage/mallet on her, but it's an item I rarely get anyways unless I'm fed to the point getting that or something else won't really matter.

I still feel Vi is strong and I like her versatility but she is definitely weaker early game so I tend to farm more than I used to pre-nerf. I also avoid counter jungling if it means there is a high probability I have to fight the enemy jungler (she really was broken when you could straight up kill those leesins). Clearing your own jungle and assisting lanes is pretty efficient until 6 thanks to Vi's ability to move through the jungle, unfortunately she isn't that mobile that you can fight and escape from their jungle until she gets Q level'd up.

As for skill order I'm still unsure of how to skill her. If the earlygame is peaceful I put 3 points in W then max Q. Otherwise I straight up go Q->E->W.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

June 22 2013 19:45 GMT

#67

Here, I just rewrote a bunch of the guide, cleaning up infos (there was some false tips, notably regarding E's interaction with Denting Blows), totally revamping the jungling items and playstyle sections, and generally slapping a bunch of spoiler tags everywhere so your eyes don't bleed as much when you read it.

I didn't rewrite the laning part though because I still haven't played her there and it's already taken quite long, so I don't feel like using even more time for what would only be speculation from a Silver scrub. As such, the laning part of the guide is more obsolete than ever and still inaccurate and tentative at best. Which means that if you've got something to say about it, go ahead, I'll be more than happy to put some real content in there.

For reference, the previous guide:
+ Show Spoiler [Jungling Vi v1.02 guide] +

Jungling Vi

There are two main approaches to jungling Vi: the tanky one, and the damage one. The tanky one plays for the dps on Denting Blows and being able to initiate, with a smoother powercurve, while the damage one focuses on burst, crushing people in early skirmishes and snowballing the game, with a steeper transition into the lategame.

Runes:
Marks: AS, AD, ArPen. + Show Spoiler +

AD makes you lose a bit less HP than AS if you don't get decent help at your first camps, but otherwise the difference in clearing isn't significant. I prefer AS as my builds rely on W for my damage.

Seals: Armour (recommended), scaling HP.
Glyphs: scaling MR (recommended), flat MR, CDR (if you value it)
Quints: AD (recommended, fastest and more damage on ganks), MS
Make sure to have at least AD Marks and/or Quints, as they are essential to maintaining high HP during her clears (no AS Marks + MS Quints).

Masteries:
I personally use 9-21-0 (you can swap out points in Relentless to max out Hardiness and take Defender too), but you can also run 21-9-0 (you can swap Sorcery out but CDR never hurts Vi), 21-0-9 and even 9-0-21 (Expanded Mind, Biscuiteer and Explorer can be swapped for Greed/Wealth, you can trade Alacrity for Sorcery if you want the early 10% CDR too) or mixed stuff if you so wishes.
Vi's kit is that good for jungling.

Summoner spells:

Smite is obvious since you're jungling, and I favour Flash. While you have a wall-jumping ability in Vault Breaker (and Assault and Battery in some way), Flash gives you added safety, and also allows you to cover an terrifying amount of ground when combined with Vault Breaker (either during the charge or the dash), and even possibly with Assault and Battery (be mindful not to initiate that way however as your team won't be able to follow you!).

Skill order:
Start with either W or E, W should give you a faster clear, however if you get enough help from your team E lets you trigger your passive, taking even less damage (especially true if your starting buff is the harder hitting Red one).
WEQ into R>Q>W>E or R>E>Q>W
+ Show Spoiler [Reasoning] +

You want to level Q quickly because the CDR on it is so good, and important for your mobility.
Q first clears for less mana (if you charge Q for every camp, E first needs one more E to deal as much damage), sports better chasing/diving power by virtue of allowing you a second Q during ganks, and makes your invades/attempts at bypassing wards* safer by virtue of having it back up for escaping sooner.
E first makes you more flexible for ganking, invading and skirmishing, as you're more likely to have 2 charges, and thus your full burst, available at all times. I don't really like it as i believe with proper planning you can always have 2 charges when you need them even when maxing Q.

When building tanky, maxing W second enhances your damage despite you skimping on AD. If you feel that the 14s base reload time is too long by the time fights start drawing out (around level 13-14 where you finish maxing W), don't hesitate to try R>Q>E>W instead and stick with what compliments your style most. I prefer to max W early however, because of how good it is for your dps and the 150% base damage increase between levels 1 and 5.
* Refer to the Wall-jumping section.

Routes:
Any, really. You will need more help to keep decent HP if you start Wraiths or Golems followed by Red Buff, but her kit and base stats are strong enough to make Vi very flexible.

Items:
Start with Machete + 5 Health potions, you can take less pots for a ward (easier if you took Wealth in masteries) but you'll need a big leash if you want to retain full health during your whole clear.
What to do with your Machete? + Show Spoiler +

For clearing purposes, Vi doesn't need to upgrade Machete at all.
Thanks to her high ability damage and dps from Denting Blows she doesn't get much mileage out of Madred's Razor or Wriggle's Lantern apart from sheer objective control: unless you plan on invading enemy buffs or taking an early dragon, you shouldn't need them at all.
While not providing any combat stats to abuse her early strength, Spirit Stone provides you with welcome mana regeneration, letting you spam your abilities more often to clear more easily. Considering how fast she can burn through her pool this can support a more aggressive playstyle thanks to the added casts. What's more, it can be upgraded into a tanky item as well as a damage one, depending on your goals.

What to do with your Boots? + Show Spoiler +

Even when building damage, Vi is a melee bruiser and as such needs tankiness, so despite the benefits to Denting Blows you shouldn't look at Berserker's Greaves, but rather Ninja Tabi and Mercury Treads depending on the enemy line-up and game flow (Tabi are cheaper and reduce monster and minion damage so they can allow a more aggressive and gank-heavy start before lanes get Boots2).
If you want/need mobility, Swiftness Boots cost as much as Boots of Mobility, while providing better in-combat MS and reducing slows, one of Vi's banes. This slow reduction applies on the 15% slow from Vault Breaker, giving Swiftness Vi 364 MS while charging, compared to 336 using Boots2. Considering her high base MS, BoM will put her above the soft MS cap when out-of-combat, before any other MS buffs.

Core:

vs.

+ Show Spoiler [Tanky reasoning] +

Starting Ninja Tabi allows you to take reduced damage from jungle monsters which, combined with your passive and your clear speed, lets you breeze through the jungle at full health. The (super early) movespeed then allows you to stick to your targets easily for more Denting Blows procs, a goal on which Phage compounds with its Icy passive. Stinger is a very cheap source of AS that also happens to give you CDR, when you complete it you'll notice both a great improvement in your already stellar clear speed and even stronger duelling power. It gives a nice power spike early on and can be upgraded to Zephyr later (which if why we can rush Tabi even if the enemy team has cc).

Combined with a Q first skill order this build makes you tanky (your passive+phage grant you a HP buffer against magical damage dealers) while giving you great mobility to move around, bully the enemy jungler and gank and punish stragglers.
However it focuses on physical EHP, making it possibly insufficient against double AP comps or magically oriented junglers like Maokai or Amumu. In such cases, a core can be Phage + 2x Null Magic Mantle + Recurve Bow. It gives much more MR to synergise with Blast Shield and the HP from Phage against magic damage, and AS without skewing the transitions too much (since we're poised to build Wit's End earlier against such a composition anyway). Skipping Stinger also delays a possible Zephyr even further, making turning the second NMM into Mercury Treads another possibility for Tenacity.

+ Show Spoiler [Damage reasoning] +

I let it at Boots of Speed so both cores have roughly the same price, it's going to be Mercury Treads most of the time to deal with cc, but you can refer to the Boots section higher up for other possibilities. Mobis/Swifties go well with a E first skill order, compensating for the longer Q cooldown that forces you to save it, and giving you mobility to brawl around every time you have your 2 charges to expend in somebody's face.
The Brutalizer is a very cost-efficient ArPen+AD+CDR item in a neat cheap package, and improves your burst against while synergising well with Denting Blows' armour reduction for the follow-up dps. It makes Vi's ganks even more potent, so make sure to hit those Qs!
Spirit of the Lizard Elder is another dream item for Vi as far as damage is concerned: not only does Butcher cover all your needs in terms of dragon/buff jacking power and the 50 AD adds nice damage to Q and W, but your whole kit applies Incinerate to all targets hit: wanna farm a wave? E it, bam, additional true damage to every minion! During teamfights this incidental damage will add up, especially if you max E first as you'll have charges coming up mid-fight to spread some AoE true damage love around. The mp5 from Spirit Stone also makes it easier for you to breeze through the jungle by spamming E.

Note that this core will give you 20% CDR without even trying, by buying primarily damage items. This will greatly improve your mobility through Q (especially if you didn't level it first) while making it more easier to get a 3rd E in skirmishes and ganks.

Staple:

vs.

+ Show Spoiler [Tanky reasoning] +

Complete Mallet asap as the combination of Icy and 400+ additional HP takes care of both your sticking problems and tankiness. Let your Vault Breaker and Denting Blows base damage take care of the killing for you along with that Stinger/Recurve Bow, and just focus on being able to punch people longer. People should be rightfully afraid of maxed Denting Blows procs during the midgame where they can't kill you fast enough.
When playing tanky, you are able to initiate with Assault and Battery in their backline and survive. You'll also probably have to stay there for awhile (too many people in the way for you to Q back to your own carries) so additional tankiness can't be bad.

I tend to prefer Randuin's to Locket because with your passive you have enough HP now to withstand magical burst, and Randuin's passive takes care of the enemy autoattackers. Plus, you'll be in the middle of the enemy team, so you'll be more likely to hit 5-foes Randuin's than 5-teammates Lockets. Don't overlook Locket of the Iron Solari nevertheless, as it has crazy-good gold efficiency, CDR to help your mobility and reload E faster, so if you want to hit an earlier timing or fell behind it is an excellent way to use your gold. Plus, shields on shields.
Against a heavily magical damage-oriented comp, you may prefer Locket, especially if you built Mercs and skipped Stinger as it's a much cheaper than Randuin's for a bit of armour+HP and a shield. These teams usually hit their peak during the midgame, as such hitting an earlier timing with a cheaper item can allow you to combat that, while the active from Randuin's is less of an asset (most AP champs being ranged or riddled with mobility spells to bypass the slow). You will, however, rely significantly more on HP than armour during the lategame unless you manage to farm a lot, which can hamper your ability to dive once the enemy AD carry completes his items.

+ Show Spoiler [Damage reasoning] +

You want to be able to tank stuff now that you've had your fun blowing up squishies for 10 minutes until they decided to group up. Warmogs is pretty good for that, giving a good layer on HP, some more for your shield, and a bit of regen that could always help you during these few seconds you spend on the edges of the fight waiting for your cooldowns to come back up. You're still pretty light on resistances, though.

The Black Cleaver is a good way to make your transition toward the lategame, as it gives you some HP and a nice passive to apply in AoE (think Lizard Spirit) so once you can't blow up people anymore, you'll still help the rest of your team, and particularly your AD carry, finish them off. Plus between that and Denting Blows, it's really hard to protect oneself from your %HP damage and if somebody on your team has a Last Whisper then you can turn the beefiest of tanks into a squishy for them.
A more "selfish" alternative, Blade of the Ruined King also allows you to transition toward the lategame through lifesteal for tankyness and the %currentHP damage to allow you to take on targets that you can't burst down [anymore]. The active gives you burst, healing and the excellent stickiness of a %MS theft. It also sports the best single-item synergy with Denting Blows (see the "Laning Vi" item section for more details).
In short, BC is more oriented toward burst (both inflicting it and surviving it) into team utility and dealing with armour stacking, while BotRK is better for long-term sustain (both healing and dps), personal strength (duelling) and dealing with health stacking.

Luxury:

vs.

+ Show Spoiler [Tanky reasoning] +

Zephyr is an excellent purchase, granting 20 AD, 10% AS, 10% MS and Tenacity for only 1600 gold... but there is a distinct lack of defensive stats in here. So while you should work on it as soon as you can reasonably afford, this means you have first to make sure you can survive initiating. Wit's End is another great AS source, while giving you MR to bolster your tankiness. Zephyr+Wit's+AS marks+level 5 Denting Blows+Alacrity mastery is a whopping 1.95 AS at level 18, ready to drop %HP damage on people at an alarming rate, so while it is a lot of gold from your core build, once you feel that you're tanky enough for your teamcomp go for it.
You can opt for more tankiness through Warmog's Armour, or if fighting magical %HP shredding champions like Elise, Evelyn or some Liandry user get a Bulwark. It's never wrong to have, and if your top or support isn't building it then be the team player.

Finally, while this build relies on AS for personal gains and duelling power don't forget that you have friendly damage dealers too, so another way to take one for the team if you're already tanky enough is to build The Black Cleaver so by virtue of staying alive you and your Denting Blows help your team fight tanks stacking resistances. It's a good peeling item. If, however, you don't need to peel that much or the enemy team is low on armour for a BC to bring much to yours, BotRK is the ultimate item to make you a juggernaut, scaling lifesteal with your resistances and passive's shield, shredding some more HP through its passive and giving you yet another way to catch/stick to someone/escape with its active.

+ Show Spoiler [Damage reasoning] +

Since you're already conduced to spacing out your Es with the way the auto-attack reset and your passive work, a Sheen can do wonders for both your burst and your dps. On top of that both Icy from Triforce and Spellblade from Gauntlet increase your sticking power. Triforce is the full-on offensive option, with Zeal increasing your mobility and dps and Phage giving you AD, while Gauntlet is the more defensive option, giving armour to scale with the HP from Warmog's, and some CDR to increase your mobility and keep E available to trigger your passive.
Maw of Malmortius is a more damage/burst oriented version of Wit's as your MR item, as it gives AD rather than AS, and less MR but a magic damage shield to survive those big bursts that can be aimed at you when you dive a squishy. The Bloodthirster is the ultimate source of damage, allowing you to 100-0 most champs in the midgame even without your ult, and adding almost 3% of targets' max HP damage to Denting Blows by itself. This is the stuff that allows you to instantly close out games; it is however a pricey purchase, so don't buy this unless you get ridiculously fed early on (it should then replace Spirit of the Lizard Elder, starting with say BF Sword instead of Pickaxe).
Guardian Angel can be very good for "this one teamfight" that you have coming at you, and you really want to dive and kill that enemy carry, but all his team is protecting him... oh well, one only lives once. The resistances compliment the HP from Warmog's better than buying even more HP, and the passive can let you go deep for your target, die and then come back to clean house, something Vi's pretty good at, especially with your passive to make it harder to burst you down as you revive.

Clearing:
+ Show Spoiler +

Vi has extremely safe and fast jungle clears, if a bit mana-hungry if you spam spells on every camp—seeing as it makes you pretty much instaclear them, abuse the regen from blue buff to the fullest whenever you have it.
You can use Q to start camps from across a wall, further enhancing your mobility. Since Q tends to bunch up minions and monsters towards the end point, it's useful for setting up your Es, especially wraiths (you can make it a lot easier to hit the whole camp by entering through the wall behind the big wraith, then using E on him).

When invading, try not to use Q if you can, so you retain your wall-jumping ability without having to burn Flash if you get noticed. Also remember that a minimal charge Q won't get you through walls, and that you can be interrupted while you're charging it.

Ganking:
+ Show Spoiler +

Hitting Vault Breaker is a vital part of ganking as Vi, because of the cc aspect (the bump), the Denting Blows stack applied, and the burst damage. You don't want to start charging too soon because you may have to cancel it before the opportunity presents itself, or use it to gap closer without actually reaching your opponent.
Initiating with Vault Breaker is risky because despite the surprise factor you're still pretty slow and thus avoidable. Having a laner with cc, even a slow, to set you up is a plus, letting you walk up to the opponent, start hitting them, and using Vault Breaker to catch up once they flash or use an escape move (it pushes minions away so they won't block you like they would Amumu's or Lee Sin's Q).
For the same reasons avoid initiating with Assault and Battery if you can: being able to use it after the opponent flashes so you catch up and buy time for your laner with the suppression is a big plus too.
Vi's front-loaded burst is large but don't blow all your E charges mindlessly as triggering Denting Blows one more time has even more impact.

When counter-ganking or getting counterganked, hitting both opponents with your ult, Q or E is very important as it raises your chances of success in case you need to switch targets, and it's easier to do in a 2v2 than during a full-on teamfight. You can play around your passive's timer if the fight drags out.

Wall-jumping:
One of the benefits of maxing Q is a shorter cooldown that allows you to use it to dash over a wall and have it ready to gank in the next 10 seconds. You can avoid riverside bush/tribrush wards, wards at your wraiths/in the J brush, or escape the enemy collapsing on you near their buff by dashing over the dragon's or baron's pit (depending on your side), but the length of Vault Breaker's charge allows some other nifty tricks.
+ Show Spoiler +

Vault Breaker's max range is barely 45 less range Jarvan's EQ combo, allowing you to move between the river bush and near top's (blue side) or bot's (purple side) tribrush without being seen by wards in the river. You can use this when purple side to gank their pushing bottom lane, or to flank the purple bot tower unsuspected if they warded the drake, but not the river bush.
If you don't like wasting time, you can save a seconds and look cool by charging Vault Breaker outside of the wolf camp, and dash through the wall while hitting the wolves at the same time.
When chasing somebody all the way to blue top's/purple's bot inner tower, you can cross the large wall between the alley and the tower with a fully charged Vault Breaker. It's doable with other abilities (like Flash) but it can be hard to pull off, while Vault Breaker has the range to do it 100% reliably.

Note that the picture shows where you land when touching the wall and charging fully, so you'll still probably need Flash or your ult to catch your almost dead prey, as you're likely to be the one tanking the tower when you do this.

(Edit: and it turns out I more-or-less included what Scip said in the earlier posts, without re-reading any of them before starting. I'll take that as a "your analysis/experience from Silver wasn't so shit" good omen.)

Gahlo

United States35087 Posts

July 08 2013 22:03 GMT

#68

Thoughts on AS marks and ArPen quints? Got the idea from what TOO generally runs on Nocturne. AS triggers W more often and the quints max out pen for the jungle/provide some of the early burst she lost(?) Bit lazy to run the math atm.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

July 11 2013 17:45 GMT

#69

Blue->Red (smite)->Wolves->Wraiths->Golems, 21-9-0 masteries

AS/ArPen:
3:50, around 680 HP left, no pots
AS/AD:
3:45, around 780 HP left, no pots

So AD slightly faster (and more HP because it kills the little mobs faster due to the ArPen wasted, you have 13 instead of 5). ArPen can still be interesting if it deals significantly more damage to champs, which it should start by level 3-4 by virtue of base damage (level 1 charged Q on a level 1 champ with armour seals (~24 armour), AD outperforms post-mitigation by less than 2 HP).

1godless

United States247 Posts

July 30 2013 10:17 GMT

#70

So what with the dorans starts in jungle, what do you think about vi? I just don't feel like it's worth it because I want more cd for my q as fast as possible, plus atspd is better for overall dueling, thoughts?

Wetty

Australia419 Posts

July 30 2013 14:07 GMT

#71

I wouldn't start it on Vi. I like spirit stone items on her, and I think she'd be too low after a doran's start to gank as effectively as others who do it. Her ganks tend to come down to surprising people by landing a fully charged Q, rather than the need for slightly more damage, as she tends to have enough damage anyway (Charged Q + auto + E + W passive pop -> all happens in impact, for 2 red burns. Pretty high for level 3!)

Gahlo

United States35087 Posts

July 30 2013 14:39 GMT

#72

On July 30 2013 23:07 Wetty wrote:
I wouldn't start it on Vi. I like spirit stone items on her, and I think she'd be too low after a doran's start to gank as effectively as others who do it. Her ganks tend to come down to surprising people by landing a fully charged Q, rather than the need for slightly more damage, as she tends to have enough damage anyway (Charged Q + auto + E + W passive pop -> all happens in impact, for 2 red burns. Pretty high for level 3!)

The intention is to get smiteless on buff1 and then have buff2 being the only camp you hit before ganking. Between the high damage and shield, she doesn't get too low from buff2.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

September 04 2013 18:34 GMT

#73

On September 04 2013 22:50 Alaric wrote:

Show nested quote +

Oh she's definitely better as a jungler than as a laner, and she's better at roaming mid and farming/dueling top (since you shouldn't ever hit Q against a ranged opponent in a lane without bushes), however just because she isn't as good doesn't mean she can't be played there, so might as well compile informations for people who want to run her in lane.

As for the jungle build, thing is soloQ and competitive are different environment, and the "cookie-cutter" build can simply be mentioned while giving other paths more detailed information. SoloQ is a bunch about snowballing too and Vi isn't the kind of jungler who can snowball easily off of golem->locket (esp. as Aegis is pretty expensive, needing the full 1950 gold before it reaps any benefit).

You are underestimating how good the new Triforce is, with the nature of how he E works you can get 3-4 "on demand" sheen hits off in a fight, or easily just 2 in a 1v1 which is all you will need. You tie that in with how much map pressure she can put on from mid and it's really strong.

Like I said in the original post I'm not really sure how strong yet, it probly isn't top tier and I mean like, why go through all the trouble of making one on Vi when you can just send Jax top and be one of the strongest champions in the game when triforce is finished. But it does seem to have a lot of potential to me, like I said the nature of E charges allows you to cast sheen hits close to on demand when combined with her other skills in a team fight. When you say "she needs a burst mage to do the damage for her" I just don't think you realise how much damage Triforce first Vi can put out, you are tunneling too hard on what you've seen on streams.

I'm still tuning it I'll report back if I change my mind and decide it sucks.

ComaDose

Canada10351 Posts

September 07 2013 18:29 GMT

#74

i been having the same problem im having on hec where i want to get spirit of lizard but golem so good.
gettting stone->boots->kindlegem->spirit of lizard->brute->sv->bc
what chu think?

Dusty

United States3359 Posts

September 08 2013 00:51 GMT

#75

On September 08 2013 03:29 ComaDose wrote:
i been having the same problem im having on hec where i want to get spirit of lizard but golem so good.
gettting stone->boots->kindlegem->spirit of lizard->brute->sv->bc
what chu think?

stone and lizard on the same hero is pretty questionable, bordering the "very bad" area.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

September 08 2013 01:30 GMT

#76

does Lizard damage stack with itself? like if you E twice instantly do you get 6 or 4 tics?