EPT[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 57
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JALbert
United States484 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Official testing begins at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). If you cannot be present by the appointed time then come whenever you can. We'll be testing so long as we have researchers and working brains, so it will continue for many hours and into the night presuming there is interest. All testing will be coordinated from the TROLLS chat channel and through TeamLiquid's TeamSpeak. This week we will do both inhouses and arranged games, depending upon attendance.
Details: Removed Subjects:+ Show Spoiler + A number of topics have been tested enough for our purposes. Further testing of these concepts requires a more stable, coordinated team practicing against players of a higher caliber. At the moment, T.R.O.L.L.S. does not have the resources to continue testing these topics in a meaningful way (though they remain fun). These topics include:
Some other topics are simply beyond our skill level to test effectively, and have also been removed. Specifically, Baron Rush compositions never worked largely due to execution issues inherent in a random gathering of players. AD Jungle Gragas: Suggested by Red8D:+ Show Spoiler + Some testing has been done for Gragas, with fairly dismal results thus far. More testing should be done, but barring some rune/itemization breakthrough this may not work out. AP Jungle TF: Tested by TarteAuSauce:+ Show Spoiler + Last week this was tested during one of the games under the category of AP junglers, and was a fairly decent success. This demands further, focused testing. I need to go over the details with Tarte again. Hopefully he'll be around. Blue Corki: Suggested by TheYango in GD:+ Show Spoiler + TheYango has theorized that Corki is actually a better candidate for the "blue build" than Ezreal. While I'm not sure he's technically better, TheYango has some good points. This build should be tested. Support Zilean:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QWQE R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Philo Stone, Kage's, Sightstone Secondary Items: Deathcap, Shurelya's, Crucible, Shard, Tear Abilities:
Best AD Carries:
Notes: Like Nasus, Zilean needs capped CDR to truly realize his potential. Unlike Nasus, he also needs a lot of mana and mana regeneration to support his spell usage. Acquiring some considerable amount of AP is also desirable as it greatly increases the potency of his ultimate, clear, and harass. Jayce AD:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QEQW R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Brutalizer Secondary Items: Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, Warmog's Armor, Infinity Edge Best Supports::
Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section. Notes: Jayce does not fit the standard AD carry paradigm. Unlike almost every other AD carry, Attack Speed is largely an irrelevant stat for him. Instead, Jayce derives an incredible amount of power from CDR. With capped CDR Jayce's Cannon-W is roughly equivalent to a 130% Attack Speed steroid (without accounting for the increased damage). In many ways it is superior to such a steroid, as Jayce can burst an opponent with four quick attacks, disengage, and then reengage once the cooldown returns. Combined with his built-in speed boosts and above average (for an AD carry) movement speed, Jayce can afford to completely ignore AS/Movement itemization vital to other AD carries. Jayce excels as an AD who can largely protect himself. His Hammer-Q -> Hammer-W combo on an adjacent target slows them and creates distance simultaneously (while also doing significant damage). Switching back to Cannon mode gives him a 25% Armor/MR reduction on the aggressor, which assures that the incoming burst will hurt like hell. With capped CDR this pattern can be repeated every 3.6 seconds, putting all but the most dogged of opponents in an impossible position. Jayce's primary weakness is mana, but then other prominent ADs are also common recipients of Blue buff (Ezreal, Urgot). Jayce also works best with aggressive supports who can create space for Jayce to harass and farm. Nami AD:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QEW R>W>E>Q Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge Secondary Items: Blade of the Ruined King, Phantom Dancer, Last Whisper Best Supports::
Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section. Notes: Nami lacks any true AD steroid or scaling, but her base Attack Speed and level scaling are decent. While she won't be terrible late game, she won't be able to match the power of late-game carries. As a result she, like Ashe, relies heavily on utility to be useful later, whatever her item build. Nami's built in sustain makes her strong with supports lacking it, and her CC complements her support's. A Nami lane should thus be played aggressively, wearing down opponents until an opportunity arises for an all-in. Top Taric: Requested by 57 Corvette Top Sejuani:+ Show Spoiler + This showed considerable promise in last week's testing. While the matchup and execution thereof didn't make it definitive, the potential for Sejuani as a top laner should be examined. Skill Order: QWE R>W>Q>E Primary Items: Warmog's Armor, Locket Secondary Items: Haunting Guise, Aegis/Bulwark, Sunfire Cape, Randuin's Omen, Spirit Visage, Rylai's, Void Staff Abilities:
Notes: It's important to Sejuani to make every trade an extended one. Brief, fleeting trades hurt her significantly. For this reason Sejuani should hold onto her Q whenever dealing with opponents who possess an escape, so that she can close on them and punish them for trading. AP Junglers:+ Show Spoiler + Notes: We've had significant success with Jungle Karthus, and given discussion of Jungle Morgana I'd like to expand our testing in this area. There are a number of AP champions with plenty of potential in the jungle, and who deserve analysis. Testing for this week will focus on the following champions:
I'm really emphasizing blue-independence because you simply can't assume you'll have blue, especially as unorthodox junglers tend to invite invasions. While champions like Cassiopeia, Malzahar, and Galio might seem like good options, they simply cannot jungle with any effectiveness unless they have blue buff. Abduction/Hook Compositions:+ Show Spoiler + Notes: In the past we played around with the Hook composition, consisting of Darius Top, Diana Mid, Nautilus Jungle, Thresh AD, and Blitz Support. It was obnoxious, but brittle in the face of bans and counter-picks. However, the possibility of expanding the notion out into an Abduction composition (which has fallen by the way side) came up in discussion. The most important pick for this strategy is Thresh, as he can literally play any role while still fitting into the composition. All other picks are essentially optional, but should consist of a balance between isolating an opponent and preventing the opposing team from rushing to their rescue. As such, potential picks include (but are not limited to):
Some key champions to ban or counter-pick include Kayle, Lulu, Shen, Thresh or any other champion who excels at saving an isolated ally. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
First game we tried Nami ADC, which seemed alright, but couldn't really stand up to Draven. We did Nami-Leona and the stun combos did seem fairly strong. Second game we did an Annie-Taric bot lane and I did Quinn mid. Annie bot lanes really seem strong, but they didn't like Taric as support. Taric is bad, apparently. We ended up with a Malzahar and a Fiddlesticks for our other two and didn't really have team synergy. Oh well. I will host it next week if Monte can't, please actually be around. It's not very fun or very legit testing with only 3 people. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
It's also the summer now. Anyone who raided in WoW will recognize this is the time of year people like to go outside. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13883 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
A level 1 all in pressure strategy: Different from the tower rush strat, this strategy revolves around using an entire team of early game focused champions, with the maximum amount of pressure put on all 3 lanes. The idea is to take the enemy team out before your early game champions stop being relevant. This team comp will revolve around a jungle Shaco and mid Kayle, for which I have a scheme. THE SCHEME: Kayle's level 2 all in is one of the strongest in the game. So how do we work this into a strategy? Shaco can do both buffs at level 1 with boxes. However, Shaco doesn't really need to do both buffs. Instead, we have Shaco do blue, drop a couple boxes at red, and Kayle +1 other laner does red, to give Kayle an immediate level 2 with red buff at the start of the game. Kayle should be able to come into lane and immediately either kill the enemy laner or force them to back. This gives Shaco an easy red invade, because nobody should be able to fight Kayle and he can just bodyguard for Shaco. You keep up this constant pressure, shut mid and the jungle down, take the mid tower, and then roam. Meanwhile, you pick top and bot lanes who are strong early game laners. Possible team comp: Kayle Shaco Renekton Caitlyn + some aggressive support It's worth noting that this strategy is probably best on purple side where it's easy for Kayle + top to do red. On blue side however you could do it by giving Caitlyn red and having her come into lane with Q and E and red buff, for easy bot lane bullying. Thoughts? | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
Edit: oh oops, that kills the Shaco+Kayle idea though hmm. | ||
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necrosed
Brazil885 Posts
On June 15 2013 12:19 Ketara wrote: So, here's a thought for a strategy. Tell me what you think of this Monte. A level 1 all in pressure strategy: Different from the tower rush strat, this strategy revolves around using an entire team of early game focused champions, with the maximum amount of pressure put on all 3 lanes. The idea is to take the enemy team out before your early game champions stop being relevant. This team comp will revolve around a jungle Shaco and mid Kayle, for which I have a scheme. THE SCHEME: Kayle's level 2 all in is one of the strongest in the game. So how do we work this into a strategy? Shaco can do both buffs at level 1 with boxes. However, Shaco doesn't really need to do both buffs. Instead, we have Shaco do blue, drop a couple boxes at red, and Kayle +1 other laner does red, to give Kayle an immediate level 2 with red buff at the start of the game. Kayle should be able to come into lane and immediately either kill the enemy laner or force them to back. This gives Shaco an easy red invade, because nobody should be able to fight Kayle and he can just bodyguard for Shaco. You keep up this constant pressure, shut mid and the jungle down, take the mid tower, and then roam. Meanwhile, you pick top and bot lanes who are strong early game laners. Possible team comp: Kayle Shaco Renekton Caitlyn + some aggressive support It's worth noting that this strategy is probably best on purple side where it's easy for Kayle + top to do red. On blue side however you could do it by giving Caitlyn red and having her come into lane with Q and E and red buff, for easy bot lane bullying. Thoughts? If you look closely to how the competitive metagame is shaping up right now, compositions should contemplate early game strength. That's basically how + Show Spoiler [OGN Spoilers] + MVP Ozone won against Blaze You're just taking it to a very extreme spot. Sounds fun with testing. Though I have some suggestions: Leona as the support, along with Twitch or Draven. Jungle can be lee sin or pantheon as well. Op gonks and pressure. Elise has a decent all-in early as well. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Shaco's early game is also just oppressive, forcing people to use pink wards and etc. His early invade is extremely strong. Lee could prob work, but I don't think it would work as well. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Shaco makes handing red buff to mid effortless, but I don't think he's necessarily a critical component. In a 5s setting it would be simple enough to have 3 people on red and 2 on blue, whoever you pick. That is, however, in a 5s setting. I can't really imagine trying this sort of thing without Shaco outside of that setting. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Top - Jarvan Mid - Kayle Jungle - Nunu Bot - Pick your aggressive early pressure bot lane Jarvan has a strong early game with a lot of gank assist and kill presence, and transitions into a teamfighty tank. Nunu can easily do blue buff with one other person, and doesn't need red, letting Kayle+2 do red buff. Nunu has a strong early game and doesn't need farm, so he can spend the whole game counterjungling, screwing up the enemy jungler and setting up ganks. Nunu has a better teamfight than Shaco later in the game. Nunu+Jarvans ASPD buffs both give a lot to Kayle and your ADC. Cho is another possible top lane option. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
as in the shaco strategy in particular | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
We have Kayle starting boots, 2 pots and a ward, and using the early ward to scout for invades. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'd mainly like to test things centered around the new jungle. IE, different ways to do a starting clear. Either A - do a clear where we take both buffs at level 1. Or B - Use a farming jungler who is not going to gank until 6, and see if the increased camp spawn time makes this more effective. With Karthus, we can do both! | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Also, I'll be around for TROLLS tonight. | ||
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