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[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 41

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
February 27 2013 19:12 GMT
#801
I prefer Elder Lizard on jungle Thresh and then just tanking up (Locket, Aegis etc.). It's more robust, has a smoother item progression, and doesn't invest heavily in stats which may not pay off.

The key to Banner of Command is to get it on your support and have them back at an opportune time to send a superminion down one of the side lanes. Combined with your solo in the other lane and four of you middle, you're guaranteed to get a tower somewhere.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Flakes
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States3125 Posts
February 27 2013 21:46 GMT
#802
On February 28 2013 03:50 Tooplark wrote:
Regarding the push comp: have you been trying the Banner of Command? If so, thoughts? I haven't had much success with it in most cases, feeling like Aegis was better in almost every situation.

I feel that banner is better built on a top/jungler that uses all the stats (e.g. malphite, shen, Cho, nunu), since they will be earning more gold, and thus the banner does not constitute a large diversion/interruption in their build. Plus, they can use it in their own lane without worrying about blue pilling/stealing gold from the carry. Supports are all about item efficiency/utility-per-teammate, while tanky solos/junglers only need enough stats to do their job. Also, having banner on someone who is split-pushing seems ideal, since they are relying more on minions to push instead of other teammates (plus the minions will keep pushing while the pusher gets chased away).

tl;dr: I don't like the idea of a situational 3-minute cooldown item on a support (except maybe Alistar, dude's a beast at pushing).

That's just my opinion on banner though -- I can't comment on Seuss's push strat without having seen it. Also, Mundo #1 sneaky Baroner (who doesn't need BoRK)
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
February 27 2013 22:02 GMT
#803
Ok. I tried massive spellvamp/CDR Morde, with the new jungle item. It seems to work. Requires more testing though. But Wraith + Revolver + Gunblade + WotA was just... So fun :D
The legend of Darien lives on
lilwisper
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2515 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-28 00:52:38
February 28 2013 00:52 GMT
#804
Open if you have seen the TSM/GGU Week4 LCS game and know the result.

+ Show Spoiler +
With the TSM/GGU game in the Week 4 LCS, I am wondering about having a comp that is focused on Split Defense rather than Split Pushing. Rumble was able to hold off Tryn(even if Tryn played poorly) fairly well IMO. Tryn never really got a true split going and TSM was able to finish with a well timed push after a Baron.
zodde
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1908 Posts
February 28 2013 01:03 GMT
#805
Just throwing it out there, but someone should really play Morgana + Kayle. Kayle ult makes it impossible to pop Black Shield, so you have atleast 3 seconds of CC and damage immunity.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 01 2013 16:37 GMT
#806
UPDATED FRIDAY TEST AGENDA: 03/01/2013

Today is a patch day, so there may be technical difficulties/login queues/other obstacles. Testing is still planned unless the servers die or some other disaster occurs.

Official testing begins at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). If you cannot be present by the appointed time then come whenever you can. We'll be testing so long as we have researchers and working servers, so it will continue for many hours and into the night presuming there is interest. All testing will be coordinated from the TROLLS chat channel and through TeamLiquid's TeamSpeak.

We will have multiple test groups and/or in-houses depending on the number of people present. As it is unlikely that the number of researchers will be an exact multiple of 5, one or more groups may sortie with unsuspecting pubs.

I will stream all tests that I am a part of at http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol.
  • Specific Subjects:
    • Support Nasus
    • Support Zilean
    • Jayce AD
    • Thresh AD
    • Jungle Karthus
    • Top Sejuani

  • General Concepts:
    • AP Duo Lanes
    • Tower Rush Compositions
    • Baron Rush Duos

Details:

Support Nasus:+ Show Spoiler +

Skill Order: WEQ R>E>W>Q
Primary Items: Philo Stone, Sightstone, Locket
Secondary Items: Shurelya's, Zeke's, Aegis
Abilities:
  • Soul Eater: As a support this passive isn't particularly amazing. However, it does give Nasus some extra survivability when slugging it out in a skirmish.
  • Soul Siphon: Because this is an auto-attack reset Nasus can potentially eat an opponent's brush wards if his AD is nearby and prepared. While support Nasus will never be able to stack this ability as much as when he solos or jungles, he should still take every reasonable opportunity to stack its damage. Last-hitting wards does stack Q, so acting as a ward hunter is beneficial for support Nasus.
  • Wither: The most powerful Attack Speed slow in the game, even at low ranks. Because of this ability's strength and long duration it is imperative that Nasus quickly cap CDR. At 40% CDR and rank 5 Wither there is a mere 1.6 second gap between them, making it difficult or impossible for any AD carry without Cleanse or QSS to contribute to a fight. It is also an insanely effective counter to movement speed boosts.
  • Spirit Fire: This ability does a lot of damage and provides the single largest flat armor reduction debuff in the game. It's this ability which makes pairing heavy physical damage dealing carries with Nasus ideal. It is extremely important that Spirit Fire be placed in such a way as to maximize the time the enemy spends within it. When Wither is on a target it is better to spend a couple seconds closing the distance; this gives you the greatest degree of freedom when placing it, while also aligning with the most potent moments of Wither.
  • Fury of the Sands: Do not underestimate the power of a sudden chunk of bonus health, AoE %Health damage, and an ever increasing AD buff. It might not be self-apparent, but this ultimate allows Nasus to engage the opposing duo with an aggressiveness that only Alistar can safely duplicate.


Best AD Carries:
  • Miss Fortune: The combination of Wither + Make It Rain with Spirit Fire and Bullet Time is absolutely devastating both in lane and in teamfights.
  • Twitch: Wither gives Twitch more than ample time to apply his passive, and Expunge + Spirit Fire is extremely painful. Spray and Pray is also devastating when all of Twitch's targets are in Spirit Fire.
  • Graves: His instantaneous, high damage AoE burst damage can be thrown down before his opponents can exit Spirit Fire. Wither buys him the time he needs for his passive to stack.
  • Draven: When it comes to physical damage, no one has more than Draven. So long as Draven unloads everything while his opponents are still in Spirit Fire (and doesn't knock them out of it with E), they will melt.
  • Caitlyn: Wither can't set up her traps, but Spirit Fire will let her practically one shot a creep wave with her Q.
  • Urgot: Wither into Noxious Charge is unavoidable, and extremely deadly.
  • Jayce: A Withered target will not only be stuck in Spirit Fire, but will be extremely easy to hit with Shock Blast.


Notes: I can't emphasis enough how important CDR is to Nasus. The difference between no CDR and capped CDR is night and day.



Support Zilean:+ Show Spoiler +

Skill Order: QWQE R>Q>W>E
Primary Items: Philo Stone, Kage's, Sightstone
Secondary Items: Deathcap, Shurelya's, Crucible, Shard, Tear
Abilities:
  • Heightened Learning: Beyond simply assuring that his team will generally have a level advantage, the exp boost gives all his lanes the potential to hit level 6 first. This provides a potential timing for a sudden kill.
  • Time Bomb: When cast one bomb at a time this is a very sustainable and deadly form of harass. The high base damage and potent scaling makes Zilean one of the hardest hitting harass supports in the game, and also a good source of wave clear later.
  • Rewind: More bombs, slows, and ultimates. This is why you make sure you cap CDR on Zilean.
  • Time Warp: Speeding up a lane ganking jungler, slowing down an out of place opponent, helping a carry escape to safety. There are a plethora of applications for this ability. This is actually longest duration CC in the entire game, clocking in at 5.5 seconds, and with CDR Zilean can keep it up permanently.
  • Chronoshift: The reason to use Zilean in any role. Having a GA available for every team fight is incredibly powerful, especially as it's independent of maximum health. With maximum CDR and back to back Rewinds, it has an effective cooldown of a mere 30 seconds.


Best AD Carries:
  • Twitch: The amount of early pressure this pair can put down is absolutely brutal, and having a get out of jail free card for Twitch later is extremely valuable.
  • Graves: A tanky AD carry combined with a revive is extremely difficult to deal with.
  • Kog'maw: Let's be clear, any hard carry with a revive every teamfight is difficult to deal with. Zilean's ability to help Kog'maw from getting overwhelmed by a hard push is also useful.
  • Tristana: Having a revive available for overly gung-ho Tristana players is a literal life-saver. Zilean's strong mid-game, even as a support, helps make up for Tristana's lack of one.
  • Jayce: Stacking movement speed boosts is fun, and slowed targets are easy targets for Shock Blast.


Notes: Like Nasus, Zilean needs capped CDR to truly realize his potential. Unlike Nasus, he also needs a lot of mana and mana regeneration to support his spell usage. Acquiring some considerable amount of AP is also desirable as it greatly increases the potency of his ultimate, clear, and harass.



Jayce AD:+ Show Spoiler +

Skill Order: QEQW R>Q>W>E
Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Brutalizer
Secondary Items: Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, Warmog's Armor, Infinity Edge

Best Supports::
  • Leona: Her ability to lock down a target gives Jayce ample time to set up a Shock Blast -> all-in, and his acceleration gate can greatly help her initiation.
  • Taric: His stun and armor shred is a perfect setup for a Shock Blast -> all-in. The sustain he brings and beneficial auras are icing on the cake.
  • Alistar: The combination of not one, but two displacement abilities is extremely nasty for both engaging and disengaging.
  • Zilean: Throwing a bomb on Jayce's head as he zooms headlong into a heavily harassed opponent, followed by a revive in case of emergency, is a thing of beauty.
  • Nasus: It's impossible to dodge Shock Blast when Withered, and oh do they hurt when you have zero armor.


Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section.

Notes: Jayce does not fit the standard AD carry paradigm. Unlike almost every other AD carry, Attack Speed is largely an irrelevant stat for him. Instead, Jayce derives an incredible amount of power from CDR. With capped CDR Jayce's Cannon-W is roughly equivalent to a 130% Attack Speed steroid (without accounting for the increased damage). In many ways it is superior to such a steroid, as Jayce can burst an opponent with four quick attacks, disengage, and then reengage once the cooldown returns. Combined with his built-in speed boosts and above average (for an AD carry) movement speed, Jayce can afford to completely ignore AS/Movement itemization vital to other AD carries.

Jayce excels as an AD who can largely protect himself. His Hammer-Q -> Hammer-W combo on an adjacent target slows them and creates distance simultaneously (while also doing significant damage). Switching back to Cannon mode gives him a 25% Armor/MR reduction on the aggressor, which assures that the incoming burst will hurt like hell. With capped CDR this pattern can be repeated every 3.6 seconds, putting all but the most dogged of opponents in an impossible position.

Jayce's primary weakness is mana, but then other prominent ADs are also common recipients of Blue buff (Ezreal, Urgot). Jayce also works best with aggressive supports who can create space for Jayce to harass and farm.



Thresh AD:+ Show Spoiler +

Skill Order: QWE R>Q>W>E
Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge
Secondary Items: Last Whisper, Warmog's Armor, Mercurial Scimitar
Abilities:
  • Damnation: This ability essentially gives Thresh the highest base Armor of any potential AD in the game. Moreover, each soul increases the damage from his auto-attacks by a significant amount. The AP is just icing on the cake.
  • Death Sentence: The primary benefit of this ability is its AD steroid. 200% of Thresh's total AD is a huge amount of burst damage even without the addition of all the souls he's collected. Even when attacking continuously a significant % of Thresh's AD is still added to his damage, resulting in very significant damage against his target.

    The hook is also extremely useful. Thresh can initiate skirmishes in his lane for his support, setting up a Leona, Alistar, or other support, or following up their initiation. It also serves as a potential escape mechanism or as a way to buy time.
  • Dark Passage: Thresh's Lantern is an excellent personal defense tool, especially when his passive is taken into account. Its uses to pull allies to him for both offensive and defensive maneuvers are well-documented. An AD that brings a built-in Locket to his team is a valuable asset.
  • Flay: While not as impressive as some other distance-creating abilities, Flay augments Thresh's tankiness by helping him lock down or lock out opponents.
  • The Box: Thresh's ultimate is an incredible tool for self-peeling. A would-be diver can trip multiple walls attempting to reach Thresh, who then still has Flay to continue to keep them at bay. Its damage is also significant, especially if multiple walls are encountered.


Best Supports:
  • Blitzcrank: No team in their right mind should let you get both Blitzcrank and Thresh, but those who are foolish enough to do so will suffer for it.
  • Lulu: Her shields and health boosts work well with Thresh's passive. Together they present an almost unassailable combination.
  • Leona: Paired with Thresh, it's neither safe for the carry to stand near their creeps, nor away from their creeps.
  • Taric: His Armor aura paired with Thresh's shield makes them both nearly impossible to kill.
  • Sona: Her harass and sustain paired with the threat of Thresh helps keep both of them safe.


Notes: Like Jayce, Thresh is perfectly happy forgoing Attack Speed itemization. He's more than content to simply wallop whatever tanky champion comes too close and then finish them off. If an enemy squishy is caught his massive burst damage from Q's passive is practically a guarantee they will die. His combination of damage and tankiness is so potent he can 1v1 an AP Tryndamere through his ultimate. Diving Thresh alone simply doesn't work the way it does against other carries.

Thresh's self-peel is also excellent against multiple targets, and in some situations he can even use his Q to reach
safety. Thresh's autonomy makes him a huge asset to his team, though he can't carry quite as hard as a Vayne or Kog'maw. Of all AD champions, he arguably bring the most to a level 1 team fight with his hook.

Thresh's notable weakness is his lack of defenses against AP assassins and his lack of mobility. He can be overwhelmed when out of position, and burst down by a clever AP. This is one of the reasons why Mercurial Scimitar is an extremely strong item for him, especially in conjunction with his shield. Making certain there is a Runic Bulwark on the team to help defend Thresh against AP champions is important. Still, his "come at me" playstyle is very strong in this era of heavy dive champions like Xin and Vi.



Jungle Karthus:+ Show Spoiler +

Skill Order: QEQW R>Q>E>W
Primary Items: Spirit of the Spectral Wraith, Tear, Haunting Guise, Seeker's Armguard
Secondary Items: Zhonya's Hourglass, Deathfire Grasp, Void Staff

Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section.

Notes: Jungle Karthus is arguably most reasonable AP jungler outside of Jungle Akali. With Spell Vamp quints he sustains extremely well through his first clear, and can even clear with relative ease if his Blue is stolen thanks to the efficiency of his Q. Invasion in his early levels is his biggest threat, but he quickly reaches a point where escape is not only possible, but unnecessary in the face of his extremely powerful and spammable Lay Waste.

Karthus' ganks are actually frightening. Wall of Pain has 1000 range, far more than champion vision, allowing him to initiate a gank from out of sight. This makes him exceptional at ganking mid-lane champions, particularly those whose only escape is Flash. The duration of the slow is 5 seconds, as much as Wither, which means a lot of easy to aim Lay Wastes and plenty of opportunity for your ally to pick up the fact that they should be murdering something.

Jungle Karthus is best used to either bait out a would-be counter-pick, or to provide an AP carry in team compositions with a bruiser/AD assassin mid. Coupling him with a blue-hungry mid is nothing short of a fatal error.

In dire circumstances Karthus can forgo Tear of the Goddess and max W before E. This results in less damage but better utility, and much less mana drained in protracted fights. This can also be done in times of plenty if you believe your AP and penetration will make up for reduced Defile damage.



Top Sejuani:+ Show Spoiler +

This showed considerable promise in last week's testing. While the matchup and execution thereof didn't make it definitive, the potential for Sejuani as a top laner should be examined.

Skill Order: QWE R>W>Q>E
Primary Items: Warmog's Armor, Locket
Secondary Items: Haunting Guise, Aegis/Bulwark, Sunfire Cape, Randuin's Omen, Spirit Visage, Rylai's, Void Staff
Abilities:
  • Frost: Not as amazing as a Frozen Mallet, but useful nonetheless.
  • Arctic Assault: Sejuani's gap closer/escape. The cooldown is nearly halved by rank 5, making it a priority to max this second. Note that it applies Frost, and your escape can be blocked as it stops upon collision with an enemy champion.
  • Northern Winds: This is Sejuani's core ability. Its Health -> Damage ratio is based on rank, making it important to max this first. A Frosted target takes 396 + 18% of Sejuani's Maximum Health in damage over the duration, making it hard for any opponent to win in an extended trade.
  • Permafrost: The slow's efficacy increases greatly with rank, but little else improves significantly. While a very valuable skill it's arguably the least important to rank up.
  • Glacial Prison: An incredible initiation tool or gank assist. Sejuani can suddenly dive forward with Arctic Assault and launch this long range stun, or simply dive headlong into the enemy team herself before firing it point blank. Combined with Permafrost as soon as the stun fades, Sejuani is a strong initiator.


Notes: It's important to Sejuani to make every trade an extended one. Brief, fleeting trades hurt her significantly. For this reason Sejuani should hold onto her Q whenever dealing with opponents who possess an escape, so that she can close on them and punish them for trading.



AP Duo Lanes:+ Show Spoiler +

Notes: We will be avoiding lane swapping this week, even when it seems an obvious choice. The goal is to put our best three side lane AP carries through their paces when facing an opposing duo.

AP Carries:
  • Ryze: Pair him with Soraka, Alistar, Leona, or Lulu. These supports all have some wave clear to make up for Ryze's lack thereof, and either sustain or the ability to follow up on his root.
  • Cassiopeia: Pair her with Soraka, Blitzcrank, Sona, Lulu, or Zyra. These supports give her the space or sustain she needs to function, and/or combo well with her ultimate.
  • Annie: Pair her with Lulu, Alistar, Sona, Zyra, or Leona. These supports capitalize on Tibbers and increase the intense pressure Annie brings to a lane.

Future Options: We will likely examine further champions in the future, after we've completed our further examination of these big three. Some Examples:
  • Xerath: Because his damage is practically all based on Q his side lane scaling is decent. This also frees him from his early wave clear problems. His extreme range and dangerous ultimate can shut down almost any AD if he gets a lead.
  • Teemo: His blind and auto-attack passive essentially ensure he'll win trades with almost any AD, and he has significant AP scaling through his auto-attacks.
  • Mordekaiser is a potential option. With a sustain support that also brings pushing power, he can continuously force his opponents to their tower to last-hit.
Again, these options are only for future consideration and will not be used this week.



Tower Rush Compositions:+ Show Spoiler +

It's been verified that this is a tough composition to play against, although execution errors were arguably to blame. However, you can't expect a run of the mill ranked 5s team to handle the rush well. Despite that advantage, I'd like to examine alternatives to Heimerdinger that don't give away the composition.
Roles:
  • Support (Push Type): These supports excel at supporting a push via wave clear and other means. The goal is to shove, and shove they will. (Soraka, Lulu, Zyra)
  • Support (Catch Type): These supports are present for the sole purpose of pressuring the defenders. They may offer other benefits, but primarily their goal is to catch someone, kill them, and give their team the opportunity to push hard as a result. (Blitzcrank, Thresh)
  • AP: Any AP champion in this composition must have exceptional wave clear at a minimum. Sustainability, utility, and zoning potential are also important attributes. (Twisted Fate, Lux, Ziggs)
  • AD: Any AD should also have significant wave clear, and enough range to safely poke at the turret. Utility for catching or confusing opponents is a plus. (Caitlyn, Graves, Varus)
  • Solo: One champion should be elsewhere in order to act as an additional threat to the defenders. Able to free farm and push, this champion should be a strong 1v1 champion who poses a significant threat if left alone. This champion should almost always have teleport and be capable of pushing hard. (Nasus, Jayce, Nidalee)
  • Jungle: The jungler can actually act as a filler, but should err toward established or traditional-looking junglers to avoid suspicion. Wave clear, catch potential, and utility are important. (Cho'gath, Nocturne, Nautilus, Maokai)


Notes: Grabbing items such as Mana Manipulator and Emblem of Valor quickly is important to sustaining the push.



Baron Rush Duos:+ Show Spoiler +

There are a fair number of jungler/top combinations who can threaten an early Baron. Exploiting these against unsuspecting teams could prove extremely potent.

Some potential champions:
  • Nasus: His ultimate does 2117 damage to Baron over 15 seconds, roughly 1/4th of its total health. Combined with hard hitting Qs, Nasus could contribute a heck of a lot to a Baron rush.
  • Udyr: A good candidate for BotRK, especially with a top-lane Tiger build.
  • Cho'gath: Probably better when jungling, but bringing 1000 damage to the table is nothing to sniff at.
  • Nunu: A support/top Nunu wandering off when no one is looking brings a lot to the table when rushing Baron.
    [*[Lee Sin: His shield spam and sustain are excellent for fast Barons. Whether using Madred's from the jungle or BotRK in a top lane, he contributes a lot.
  • Warwick: His ultimate is hilarious with BotRK. Grabbing Baron with it is basically a bonus.

These are not the only potential candidates, but are perhaps the most obvious.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
March 01 2013 19:20 GMT
#807
Fiddle works quite well too for baron rushing. My brother and I did it at 20 minutes while the enemy team was distracted by killing our nexus.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
March 01 2013 21:59 GMT
#808
Haven't posted in a while, still have never managed to play with you guys.

Just thought you guys should know about Nashor's -> Liandry's -> Rylai's topCho.

Hybrid Pen reds, obviously armor/mres yellows/blues. Quints: Hybrid pen is ideal I think (gives you a HUGE LOAD of damage early game) but movespeed% probably also good
21/9/0. Yes, you read that right. Get the flat AD, bonus minion damage (I'm of the opinion that more consistent last hits is way better than 2% aspd), mpen, etc stuff. Also get the flat armor pen mastery, that shit rules. And Archmage blows.
Ghost/Ignite or Ghost/Exhaust is probably best here- you want to stick to people. Exhaust may be better as it practically *guarantees* a Rupture hit whenever you want it, and because you're not using defensive masteries, you might need Exhaust's defensive utility. If you take exhaust, try to scare him into flashing before you use your rupture. If you take ignite, don't be afraid to use it in a very early (like level 1 or ideally as soon as you hit level 2) engagement to give you lane control and boost your already ridiculous attack and AP. Don't worry, it'll be up again by level 6.
Don't be afraid to use ignite at the START of engagements- the Offense mastery will give you quite a lot of extra damage over the course of a fight. Likewise if you need to ult someone NOW before he gets out of range (but he's too high HP for it to kill him), don't hesitate to just do it and ignite him after.

Ghost/Flash if you're not interested in killing your opponent, but would like to super safely farm between his towers and drive their jungler insane.

You're a REAL MAN. Start BOOTS, WARD, and HEALTH POTION.
Or 9p2w or cloth/5 or whatever. If you are buying more than 1 potion, you probably want to make about 1/3 of your pots MANA POTIONS.

Your silence is useless vs the bruisers you'll be fighting top lane, and a waste of time which you could spend autoattacking and a waste of mana which you could spend on RUPTURES.

Level QEQEQR. Continue in this fashion of R>Q>E until Q/E are both maxed.

Try to stabilize your lane close to your tower. Stay close to the creeps. Peg your opponent with an autoattack or a Q when he last hits and you won't get buttfucked by 100 PCMs. If he's not quite in range, hit a minion so vorpals fly up his nose.

When your lane pushes (and it will. you're fucking Cho), either:
1 - put up your ward and try to harass your opponent down to a dive-able level. Don't be afraid of taking an occasional tower hit if you can get him a little closer to the magical 300 mark. You can heal on minions.
2 - put your ward in the enemy jungle, and steal jungle camps OR farm between his towers. Because you haven't wasted any levels in your E, you can clear waves faster and more mana-efficiently.
3 - go back and buy Stinger. The 10% CDR is SUUUUPER noticable, and the attack speed turns you into a fucking killing machine.

After you win the laning phase, destroy Darius's tower, and type "hue" in all chat 400 times, farm like crazy all over the map. Nashor's (especially w/ your ult) lets you farm jungle camps *ludicrously* fast, so ward the shit out of the enemy jungle and steal everything while pushing every lane.

Skip Liandry's if you're your team's only tanky champ or you lost your lane or something, and just immediately switch to tank items. Warmogs is shit now, so you probably want CDR items if you can't regularly get blue buffs, or straight up resists if you can.

Lategame: Try to use your Q either to initiate, or to protect your carries. Save your silence to fuck up someone's wombo combo. You're still relatively fragile so you probably want to stand in front of your carries and auto attack the fuck out of Renekton instead of trying to dive the enemy team. Fortunately, you have LIANDRY's, which does %hp burn, which is way better against the enemy tanks than against their carries anyway.

MOBILITY BOOTS IS BEST BOOTS
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
March 01 2013 23:31 GMT
#809
This is slightly tangential but I actually feel that, due to movespeed cap, boots of swiftness are almost always better than mobos, since you get close to the same out of combat speed on fast dudes, a much better in-combat speed, and reduced slow effect (which is a godsend against Ashe or Singed or what have you).
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
March 01 2013 23:49 GMT
#810
You know, I haven't actually done the math on it, taking into account the weird diminishing returns shit. You may be right.
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
March 02 2013 02:00 GMT
#811
I'l be on a little bit later, definitely up for testing Toplane sejuani.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 02 2013 04:37 GMT
#812
Tonight's testing in brief:
  • Sejuani Top is legit.
  • Quinn mid is legit.
  • BotRK is legit.
  • Sion crushes mid Tristana.
  • People do not like you tower rushing in blind pick normals.
  • Ketara whines when you ban Lux and Tristana.
  • AD Thresh got crushed by Kayle, carried late.
  • Top Taric is deceptively strong.
  • Reviewing an interesting moment in a highly contested game with everyone via my stream was absolutely awesome.


I'll ruminate on all this as always and post in more detail later.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31494 Posts
March 02 2013 05:07 GMT
#813
Man, no discussion of Numbat and I boss bottom duo lanes?
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 06:40:58
March 02 2013 06:39 GMT
#814
Ryze doesn't do particularly well with Lulu against an AD/support lane with Sona. He probably pairs well with Sona though, with the q poke and the ult/rune prison synergy. Wave clearing power from the support (with Ryze) is probably a bit overrated if you're not facing something like Cait/Nunu.

Ryze did do a lot more damage than I expected given that we got an early lead- think it's just a matter of finding the right support. I can imagine Sona/Leona being quite effective with him. I kind of drool over the prospect of rune prison setting up a guaranteed Leona combo.

Also, don't try to clear my pinks when you're at half health and mana and bait your team Monty. :>
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 02 2013 07:58 GMT
#815
I got away and got 2 pinks for one. I don't see the issue. :3
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
March 02 2013 15:41 GMT
#816
Monte tends to take crazy risks every game, I think this is sort of normal procedure for him.

When it works he's all smug about it but when he rushes Deathcap on Galio in a 1v2 and then dies at the enemy tower like four times he doesn't admit how dumb it was until well after the game was over


I think when we're doing the AP duo now we should really be testing conditions in which you'd use it in a real game. We've been doing it every week and we have some ideas on effective AP+support combinations and effective AD mids, but the thing is we're considering this combination given a certain type of enemy team comp, and we never test it vs this team comp.

I'd like to see us do the AP duo next week where like, one team is going to take an AP duo, and the other team is going to play standard and has to first pick Khazix / Zed / Kassadin / Katarina mid. Because that's the condition where in a real game you'd say "ok, ADC mid AP bot lane"
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Lylat
Profile Joined August 2009
France8575 Posts
March 02 2013 17:18 GMT
#817
Are you doing this on EU.W aswell ?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 02 2013 17:44 GMT
#818
Sadly no, I don't have any EU accounts, so there's no one coordinating testing activities/membership on EU.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-03 17:13:43
March 03 2013 17:13 GMT
#819
Here's a random thought:

Kayle support for Ryze in bot lane.

She can go Q>E>W>Q and then max Q first for early damage. Her Q leads into an easy rune prison and vice versa. Her heal speed boost can also make setting up a combo easier.

She has % mpen shred while Ryze has flat mpen shred and these work together.

She gives good pushing utility, when you want to push she can E and get minions low and then stop and let Ryze last hit.

Her ult is always good utility.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 04 2013 23:30 GMT
#820
Ruminations:

I think Support Nasus is clearly effective. It's no longer a matter of theory, just a matter of figuring out how effective it is. The power of 20-40 Armor Reduction is extremely strong, and combined with Wither it's just ridiculous how much damage a champion like MF/Twitch/Graves/Caitlyn/Draven can throw down with impunity. I don't know if Spellsy reads this thread, but I think conferring with him regarding its potential would be a good idea. I'm confident enough in the concept to suggest we add it to our ranked tests and even build team compositions around it.

AP Duo lanes have actually now appeared in LCS EU (Soraka/Nidalee). Vindication.

For this Friday's testing I think I'd like to avoid inhouses and work exclusively via queues. Inhouses are fun, but with two teams of players going out we can test twice as much without having to designate a control group.


Also, support Kayle suffers from "Why isn't she <insert role/position here>" syndrome. She might work, but unless she gets nerfed again I don't know why you'd make her support.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
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