The key to Banner of Command is to get it on your support and have them back at an opportune time to send a superminion down one of the side lanes. Combined with your solo in the other lane and four of you middle, you're guaranteed to get a tower somewhere.
[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 41
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
The key to Banner of Command is to get it on your support and have them back at an opportune time to send a superminion down one of the side lanes. Combined with your solo in the other lane and four of you middle, you're guaranteed to get a tower somewhere. | ||
Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On February 28 2013 03:50 Tooplark wrote: Regarding the push comp: have you been trying the Banner of Command? If so, thoughts? I haven't had much success with it in most cases, feeling like Aegis was better in almost every situation. I feel that banner is better built on a top/jungler that uses all the stats (e.g. malphite, shen, Cho, nunu), since they will be earning more gold, and thus the banner does not constitute a large diversion/interruption in their build. Plus, they can use it in their own lane without worrying about blue pilling/stealing gold from the carry. Supports are all about item efficiency/utility-per-teammate, while tanky solos/junglers only need enough stats to do their job. Also, having banner on someone who is split-pushing seems ideal, since they are relying more on minions to push instead of other teammates (plus the minions will keep pushing while the pusher gets chased away). tl;dr: I don't like the idea of a situational 3-minute cooldown item on a support (except maybe Alistar, dude's a beast at pushing). That's just my opinion on banner though -- I can't comment on Seuss's push strat without having seen it. Also, Mundo #1 sneaky Baroner (who doesn't need BoRK) | ||
mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + With the TSM/GGU game in the Week 4 LCS, I am wondering about having a comp that is focused on Split Defense rather than Split Pushing. Rumble was able to hold off Tryn(even if Tryn played poorly) fairly well IMO. Tryn never really got a true split going and TSM was able to finish with a well timed push after a Baron. | ||
zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Today is a patch day, so there may be technical difficulties/login queues/other obstacles. Testing is still planned unless the servers die or some other disaster occurs. Official testing begins at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). If you cannot be present by the appointed time then come whenever you can. We'll be testing so long as we have researchers and working servers, so it will continue for many hours and into the night presuming there is interest. All testing will be coordinated from the TROLLS chat channel and through TeamLiquid's TeamSpeak. We will have multiple test groups and/or in-houses depending on the number of people present. As it is unlikely that the number of researchers will be an exact multiple of 5, one or more groups may sortie with unsuspecting pubs. I will stream all tests that I am a part of at http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol.
Details: Support Nasus:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: WEQ R>E>W>Q Primary Items: Philo Stone, Sightstone, Locket Secondary Items: Shurelya's, Zeke's, Aegis Abilities:
Best AD Carries:
Notes: I can't emphasis enough how important CDR is to Nasus. The difference between no CDR and capped CDR is night and day. Support Zilean:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QWQE R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Philo Stone, Kage's, Sightstone Secondary Items: Deathcap, Shurelya's, Crucible, Shard, Tear Abilities:
Best AD Carries:
Notes: Like Nasus, Zilean needs capped CDR to truly realize his potential. Unlike Nasus, he also needs a lot of mana and mana regeneration to support his spell usage. Acquiring some considerable amount of AP is also desirable as it greatly increases the potency of his ultimate, clear, and harass. Jayce AD:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QEQW R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Brutalizer Secondary Items: Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, Warmog's Armor, Infinity Edge Best Supports::
Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section. Notes: Jayce does not fit the standard AD carry paradigm. Unlike almost every other AD carry, Attack Speed is largely an irrelevant stat for him. Instead, Jayce derives an incredible amount of power from CDR. With capped CDR Jayce's Cannon-W is roughly equivalent to a 130% Attack Speed steroid (without accounting for the increased damage). In many ways it is superior to such a steroid, as Jayce can burst an opponent with four quick attacks, disengage, and then reengage once the cooldown returns. Combined with his built-in speed boosts and above average (for an AD carry) movement speed, Jayce can afford to completely ignore AS/Movement itemization vital to other AD carries. Jayce excels as an AD who can largely protect himself. His Hammer-Q -> Hammer-W combo on an adjacent target slows them and creates distance simultaneously (while also doing significant damage). Switching back to Cannon mode gives him a 25% Armor/MR reduction on the aggressor, which assures that the incoming burst will hurt like hell. With capped CDR this pattern can be repeated every 3.6 seconds, putting all but the most dogged of opponents in an impossible position. Jayce's primary weakness is mana, but then other prominent ADs are also common recipients of Blue buff (Ezreal, Urgot). Jayce also works best with aggressive supports who can create space for Jayce to harass and farm. Thresh AD:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QWE R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge Secondary Items: Last Whisper, Warmog's Armor, Mercurial Scimitar Abilities:
Best Supports:
Notes: Like Jayce, Thresh is perfectly happy forgoing Attack Speed itemization. He's more than content to simply wallop whatever tanky champion comes too close and then finish them off. If an enemy squishy is caught his massive burst damage from Q's passive is practically a guarantee they will die. His combination of damage and tankiness is so potent he can 1v1 an AP Tryndamere through his ultimate. Diving Thresh alone simply doesn't work the way it does against other carries. Thresh's self-peel is also excellent against multiple targets, and in some situations he can even use his Q to reach safety. Thresh's autonomy makes him a huge asset to his team, though he can't carry quite as hard as a Vayne or Kog'maw. Of all AD champions, he arguably bring the most to a level 1 team fight with his hook. Thresh's notable weakness is his lack of defenses against AP assassins and his lack of mobility. He can be overwhelmed when out of position, and burst down by a clever AP. This is one of the reasons why Mercurial Scimitar is an extremely strong item for him, especially in conjunction with his shield. Making certain there is a Runic Bulwark on the team to help defend Thresh against AP champions is important. Still, his "come at me" playstyle is very strong in this era of heavy dive champions like Xin and Vi. Jungle Karthus:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QEQW R>Q>E>W Primary Items: Spirit of the Spectral Wraith, Tear, Haunting Guise, Seeker's Armguard Secondary Items: Zhonya's Hourglass, Deathfire Grasp, Void Staff Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section. Notes: Jungle Karthus is arguably most reasonable AP jungler outside of Jungle Akali. With Spell Vamp quints he sustains extremely well through his first clear, and can even clear with relative ease if his Blue is stolen thanks to the efficiency of his Q. Invasion in his early levels is his biggest threat, but he quickly reaches a point where escape is not only possible, but unnecessary in the face of his extremely powerful and spammable Lay Waste. Karthus' ganks are actually frightening. Wall of Pain has 1000 range, far more than champion vision, allowing him to initiate a gank from out of sight. This makes him exceptional at ganking mid-lane champions, particularly those whose only escape is Flash. The duration of the slow is 5 seconds, as much as Wither, which means a lot of easy to aim Lay Wastes and plenty of opportunity for your ally to pick up the fact that they should be murdering something. Jungle Karthus is best used to either bait out a would-be counter-pick, or to provide an AP carry in team compositions with a bruiser/AD assassin mid. Coupling him with a blue-hungry mid is nothing short of a fatal error. In dire circumstances Karthus can forgo Tear of the Goddess and max W before E. This results in less damage but better utility, and much less mana drained in protracted fights. This can also be done in times of plenty if you believe your AP and penetration will make up for reduced Defile damage. Top Sejuani:+ Show Spoiler + This showed considerable promise in last week's testing. While the matchup and execution thereof didn't make it definitive, the potential for Sejuani as a top laner should be examined. Skill Order: QWE R>W>Q>E Primary Items: Warmog's Armor, Locket Secondary Items: Haunting Guise, Aegis/Bulwark, Sunfire Cape, Randuin's Omen, Spirit Visage, Rylai's, Void Staff Abilities:
Notes: It's important to Sejuani to make every trade an extended one. Brief, fleeting trades hurt her significantly. For this reason Sejuani should hold onto her Q whenever dealing with opponents who possess an escape, so that she can close on them and punish them for trading. AP Duo Lanes:+ Show Spoiler + Notes: We will be avoiding lane swapping this week, even when it seems an obvious choice. The goal is to put our best three side lane AP carries through their paces when facing an opposing duo. AP Carries:
Future Options: We will likely examine further champions in the future, after we've completed our further examination of these big three. Some Examples:
Tower Rush Compositions:+ Show Spoiler + It's been verified that this is a tough composition to play against, although execution errors were arguably to blame. However, you can't expect a run of the mill ranked 5s team to handle the rush well. Despite that advantage, I'd like to examine alternatives to Heimerdinger that don't give away the composition. Roles:
Notes: Grabbing items such as Mana Manipulator and Emblem of Valor quickly is important to sustaining the push. Baron Rush Duos:+ Show Spoiler + There are a fair number of jungler/top combinations who can threaten an early Baron. Exploiting these against unsuspecting teams could prove extremely potent. Some potential champions:
These are not the only potential candidates, but are perhaps the most obvious. | ||
Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
Just thought you guys should know about Nashor's -> Liandry's -> Rylai's topCho. Hybrid Pen reds, obviously armor/mres yellows/blues. Quints: Hybrid pen is ideal I think (gives you a HUGE LOAD of damage early game) but movespeed% probably also good 21/9/0. Yes, you read that right. Get the flat AD, bonus minion damage (I'm of the opinion that more consistent last hits is way better than 2% aspd), mpen, etc stuff. Also get the flat armor pen mastery, that shit rules. And Archmage blows. Ghost/Ignite or Ghost/Exhaust is probably best here- you want to stick to people. Exhaust may be better as it practically *guarantees* a Rupture hit whenever you want it, and because you're not using defensive masteries, you might need Exhaust's defensive utility. If you take exhaust, try to scare him into flashing before you use your rupture. If you take ignite, don't be afraid to use it in a very early (like level 1 or ideally as soon as you hit level 2) engagement to give you lane control and boost your already ridiculous attack and AP. Don't worry, it'll be up again by level 6. Don't be afraid to use ignite at the START of engagements- the Offense mastery will give you quite a lot of extra damage over the course of a fight. Likewise if you need to ult someone NOW before he gets out of range (but he's too high HP for it to kill him), don't hesitate to just do it and ignite him after. Ghost/Flash if you're not interested in killing your opponent, but would like to super safely farm between his towers and drive their jungler insane. You're a REAL MAN. Start BOOTS, WARD, and HEALTH POTION. Or 9p2w or cloth/5 or whatever. If you are buying more than 1 potion, you probably want to make about 1/3 of your pots MANA POTIONS. Your silence is useless vs the bruisers you'll be fighting top lane, and a waste of time which you could spend autoattacking and a waste of mana which you could spend on RUPTURES. Level QEQEQR. Continue in this fashion of R>Q>E until Q/E are both maxed. Try to stabilize your lane close to your tower. Stay close to the creeps. Peg your opponent with an autoattack or a Q when he last hits and you won't get buttfucked by 100 PCMs. If he's not quite in range, hit a minion so vorpals fly up his nose. When your lane pushes (and it will. you're fucking Cho), either: 1 - put up your ward and try to harass your opponent down to a dive-able level. Don't be afraid of taking an occasional tower hit if you can get him a little closer to the magical 300 mark. You can heal on minions. 2 - put your ward in the enemy jungle, and steal jungle camps OR farm between his towers. Because you haven't wasted any levels in your E, you can clear waves faster and more mana-efficiently. 3 - go back and buy Stinger. The 10% CDR is SUUUUPER noticable, and the attack speed turns you into a fucking killing machine. After you win the laning phase, destroy Darius's tower, and type "hue" in all chat 400 times, farm like crazy all over the map. Nashor's (especially w/ your ult) lets you farm jungle camps *ludicrously* fast, so ward the shit out of the enemy jungle and steal everything while pushing every lane. Skip Liandry's if you're your team's only tanky champ or you lost your lane or something, and just immediately switch to tank items. Warmogs is shit now, so you probably want CDR items if you can't regularly get blue buffs, or straight up resists if you can. Lategame: Try to use your Q either to initiate, or to protect your carries. Save your silence to fuck up someone's wombo combo. You're still relatively fragile so you probably want to stand in front of your carries and auto attack the fuck out of Renekton instead of trying to dive the enemy team. Fortunately, you have LIANDRY's, which does %hp burn, which is way better against the enemy tanks than against their carries anyway. MOBILITY BOOTS IS BEST BOOTS | ||
Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
I'll ruminate on all this as always and post in more detail later. | ||
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Ryze did do a lot more damage than I expected given that we got an early lead- think it's just a matter of finding the right support. I can imagine Sona/Leona being quite effective with him. I kind of drool over the prospect of rune prison setting up a guaranteed Leona combo. Also, don't try to clear my pinks when you're at half health and mana and bait your team Monty. :> | ||
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
When it works he's all smug about it but when he rushes Deathcap on Galio in a 1v2 and then dies at the enemy tower like four times he doesn't admit how dumb it was until well after the game was over ![]() I think when we're doing the AP duo now we should really be testing conditions in which you'd use it in a real game. We've been doing it every week and we have some ideas on effective AP+support combinations and effective AD mids, but the thing is we're considering this combination given a certain type of enemy team comp, and we never test it vs this team comp. I'd like to see us do the AP duo next week where like, one team is going to take an AP duo, and the other team is going to play standard and has to first pick Khazix / Zed / Kassadin / Katarina mid. Because that's the condition where in a real game you'd say "ok, ADC mid AP bot lane" | ||
Lylat
France8571 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Kayle support for Ryze in bot lane. She can go Q>E>W>Q and then max Q first for early damage. Her Q leads into an easy rune prison and vice versa. Her heal speed boost can also make setting up a combo easier. She has % mpen shred while Ryze has flat mpen shred and these work together. She gives good pushing utility, when you want to push she can E and get minions low and then stop and let Ryze last hit. Her ult is always good utility. | ||
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
I think Support Nasus is clearly effective. It's no longer a matter of theory, just a matter of figuring out how effective it is. The power of 20-40 Armor Reduction is extremely strong, and combined with Wither it's just ridiculous how much damage a champion like MF/Twitch/Graves/Caitlyn/Draven can throw down with impunity. I don't know if Spellsy reads this thread, but I think conferring with him regarding its potential would be a good idea. I'm confident enough in the concept to suggest we add it to our ranked tests and even build team compositions around it. AP Duo lanes have actually now appeared in LCS EU (Soraka/Nidalee). Vindication. For this Friday's testing I think I'd like to avoid inhouses and work exclusively via queues. Inhouses are fun, but with two teams of players going out we can test twice as much without having to designate a control group. Also, support Kayle suffers from "Why isn't she <insert role/position here>" syndrome. She might work, but unless she gets nerfed again I don't know why you'd make her support. | ||
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