[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 43
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
So far been doing R>Q>W>E, MPen reds, AP blues, armor yellows, gold quints, focusing on Bomb poking in lane against shorter ranged AD carries. I like going more AP/supporty hybrid with Kage being first item, and then Chalice, Shard of True Ice, either of the Chalice upgrades, and mobility boots to roam a bit faster. I was thinking about Tear over Chalice in some situations, but I'm not 100% when it would be a better idea. | ||
Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
I'd imagine Chalice vs Tear depends on what you want, Tear for transition into a pseudo-AP and Chalice for pure support? I always feel like a "hyper support" when playing him, somewhat weak early but once lategame rolls about his ultimate is so rediculous strong. | ||
Sermokala
United States13736 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On March 08 2013 23:56 Sermokala wrote: armor pen reds on a support zilean? Er, MPen, fixed. On March 08 2013 23:53 Jek wrote: I've always liked Tear on Zilean since he charges it so fast and if you ever upgrade it you'll gain a massive chunk of AP. Never really wanted mobos on him, he already got an immense MS steoroid which is more or less always an option when you get some CDR. I'd imagine Chalice vs Tear depends on what you want, Tear for transition into a pseudo-AP and Chalice for pure support? I always feel like a "hyper support" when playing him, somewhat weak early but once lategame rolls about his ultimate is so rediculous strong. Mobos is personal because I like to roam. I tried Tear a bit, it's fine, but I prefer the CDR and defenses on Athene's. I guess you could go Tear/CDR boots if you want a similar effect, but you'll be more susceptible to magic poke from Lulu, Soraka, and Sona (among others). | ||
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Official testing begins at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). If you cannot be present by the appointed time then come whenever you can. We'll be testing so long as we have researchers and working brains, so it will continue for many hours and into the night presuming there is interest. All testing will be coordinated from the TROLLS chat channel and through TeamLiquid's TeamSpeak. This week we will be mostly eschewing inhouses, preferring instead to sortie against unsuspecting pubs. We will have multiple test groups depending on the number of people present. As it is unlikely that the number of researchers will be an exact multiple of 5, one or more groups may sortie with unsuspecting pubs. I will stream all tests that I am a part of at http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol.
Details: Support Zilean:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QWQE R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Philo Stone, Kage's, Sightstone Secondary Items: Deathcap, Shurelya's, Crucible, Shard, Tear Abilities:
Best AD Carries:
Notes: Like Nasus, Zilean needs capped CDR to truly realize his potential. Unlike Nasus, he also needs a lot of mana and mana regeneration to support his spell usage. Acquiring some considerable amount of AP is also desirable as it greatly increases the potency of his ultimate, clear, and harass. Support Nasus:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: WEQ R>E>W>Q Primary Items: Philo Stone, Sightstone, Locket Secondary Items: Shurelya's, Zeke's, Aegis Abilities:
Best AD Carries:
Notes: I can't emphasis enough how important CDR is to Nasus. The difference between no CDR and capped CDR is night and day. Jayce AD:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QEQW R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Brutalizer Secondary Items: Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, Warmog's Armor, Infinity Edge Best Supports::
Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section. Notes: Jayce does not fit the standard AD carry paradigm. Unlike almost every other AD carry, Attack Speed is largely an irrelevant stat for him. Instead, Jayce derives an incredible amount of power from CDR. With capped CDR Jayce's Cannon-W is roughly equivalent to a 130% Attack Speed steroid (without accounting for the increased damage). In many ways it is superior to such a steroid, as Jayce can burst an opponent with four quick attacks, disengage, and then reengage once the cooldown returns. Combined with his built-in speed boosts and above average (for an AD carry) movement speed, Jayce can afford to completely ignore AS/Movement itemization vital to other AD carries. Jayce excels as an AD who can largely protect himself. His Hammer-Q -> Hammer-W combo on an adjacent target slows them and creates distance simultaneously (while also doing significant damage). Switching back to Cannon mode gives him a 25% Armor/MR reduction on the aggressor, which assures that the incoming burst will hurt like hell. With capped CDR this pattern can be repeated every 3.6 seconds, putting all but the most dogged of opponents in an impossible position. Jayce's primary weakness is mana, but then other prominent ADs are also common recipients of Blue buff (Ezreal, Urgot). Jayce also works best with aggressive supports who can create space for Jayce to harass and farm. Thresh AD:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QWE R>Q>W>E Primary Items: Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge Secondary Items: Last Whisper, Warmog's Armor, Mercurial Scimitar Abilities:
Best Supports:
Notes: Like Jayce, Thresh is perfectly happy forgoing Attack Speed itemization. He's more than content to simply wallop whatever tanky champion comes too close and then finish them off. If an enemy squishy is caught his massive burst damage from Q's passive is practically a guarantee they will die. His combination of damage and tankiness is so potent he can 1v1 an AP Tryndamere through his ultimate. Diving Thresh alone simply doesn't work the way it does against other carries. Thresh's self-peel is also excellent against multiple targets, and in some situations he can even use his Q to reach safety. Thresh's autonomy makes him a huge asset to his team, though he can't carry quite as hard as a Vayne or Kog'maw. Of all AD champions, he arguably bring the most to a level 1 team fight with his hook. Thresh's notable weakness is his lack of defenses against AP assassins and his lack of mobility. He can be overwhelmed when out of position, and burst down by a clever AP. This is one of the reasons why Mercurial Scimitar is an extremely strong item for him, especially in conjunction with his shield. Making certain there is a Runic Bulwark on the team to help defend Thresh against AP champions is important. Still, his "come at me" playstyle is very strong in this era of heavy dive champions like Xin and Vi. Jungle Karthus:+ Show Spoiler + Skill Order: QEQW R>Q>E>W Primary Items: Spirit of the Spectral Wraith, Tear, Haunting Guise, Seeker's Armguard Secondary Items: Zhonya's Hourglass, Deathfire Grasp, Void Staff Abilities excluded in favor of simply discussing such matters in the Notes section. Notes: Jungle Karthus is arguably most reasonable AP jungler outside of Jungle Akali. With Spell Vamp quints he sustains extremely well through his first clear, and can even clear with relative ease if his Blue is stolen thanks to the efficiency of his Q. Invasion in his early levels is his biggest threat, but he quickly reaches a point where escape is not only possible, but unnecessary in the face of his extremely powerful and spammable Lay Waste. Karthus' ganks are actually frightening. Wall of Pain has 1000 range, far more than champion vision, allowing him to initiate a gank from out of sight. This makes him exceptional at ganking mid-lane champions, particularly those whose only escape is Flash. The duration of the slow is 5 seconds, as much as Wither, which means a lot of easy to aim Lay Wastes and plenty of opportunity for your ally to pick up the fact that they should be murdering something. Jungle Karthus is best used to either bait out a would-be counter-pick, or to provide an AP carry in team compositions with a bruiser/AD assassin mid. Coupling him with a blue-hungry mid is nothing short of a fatal error. In dire circumstances Karthus can forgo Tear of the Goddess and max W before E. This results in less damage but better utility, and much less mana drained in protracted fights. This can also be done in times of plenty if you believe your AP and penetration will make up for reduced Defile damage. Top Sejuani:+ Show Spoiler + This showed considerable promise in last week's testing. While the matchup and execution thereof didn't make it definitive, the potential for Sejuani as a top laner should be examined. Skill Order: QWE R>W>Q>E Primary Items: Warmog's Armor, Locket Secondary Items: Haunting Guise, Aegis/Bulwark, Sunfire Cape, Randuin's Omen, Spirit Visage, Rylai's, Void Staff Abilities:
Notes: It's important to Sejuani to make every trade an extended one. Brief, fleeting trades hurt her significantly. For this reason Sejuani should hold onto her Q whenever dealing with opponents who possess an escape, so that she can close on them and punish them for trading. AP Duo Lanes:+ Show Spoiler + Notes: We will be avoiding lane swapping again this week, even when it seems an obvious choice. The goal is to put our best three side lane AP carries through their paces when facing an opposing duo. I'd also like to step back from relying on Ketara's Tristana mid every single time this is tested. AP Carries:
Future Options: We will likely examine further champions in the future, after we've completed our further examination of these big three. Some Examples:
Baron Rush Duos:+ Show Spoiler + There are a fair number of jungler/top combinations who can threaten an early Baron. Exploiting these against unsuspecting teams could prove extremely potent. Some potential champions:
These are not the only potential candidates, but are perhaps the most obvious. Tower Rush Compositions:+ Show Spoiler + It's been verified that this is a tough composition to play against, although execution errors were arguably to blame. However, you can't expect a run of the mill ranked 5s team to handle the rush well. Despite that advantage, I'd like to examine alternatives to Heimerdinger that don't give away the composition. Roles:
Notes: Grabbing items such as Mana Manipulator and Emblem of Valor quickly is important to sustaining the push. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On March 09 2013 02:33 Seuss wrote: I'd definitely like to give her a go against actual APs or assassins. Against other ADs I think she's obviously got the chops, but the problems Requizen had top against Zed make me wonder how she'll do against bursty champions. I was also running her full squishy AD with 21/9/0, basically he just jumped on me every time his ult was up. If I was in an assassin matchup again (which is generally never good for squishies anyway), I'd probably go for something more like 19/11/0 or even more in defense, and then get a Phage or something early on. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Mid lane is also easier than top. Mid lane you farm much closer to your tower, and vaulting off Zed when he dives you gets you much closer to safety than it does top lane. | ||
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On March 09 2013 02:20 Ketara wrote: I think Quinn has some serious mid lane AD promise and I want to try her, but I'm too poor to buy the girl. Shoot me your summoner name and I can gift it. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
That would be really amazing, you totes don't have to. | ||
57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On March 09 2013 03:28 Ketara wrote: Ketarah. NA server. That would be really amazing, you totes don't have to. I ran into good fortune today, just passing it along. ![]() ![]() | ||
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Edit: a compromise could probably be made to level W up to a level that's sustainable (somewhere between 2-4, not sure which) and then maxing E. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 09 2013 04:12 lilwisper wrote: I ran into good fortune today, just passing it along. ![]() ![]() Well, thanks. I appreciate it. Will definitely try it out. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
ADC+Support mid Bruisers top and bot Jungler Gives them a pretty crazy front line and they got the mid turret very fast. | ||
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