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[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 42

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31494 Posts
March 04 2013 23:58 GMT
#821
On March 05 2013 08:30 Seuss wrote:
Ruminations:

I think Support Nasus is clearly effective. It's no longer a matter of theory, just a matter of figuring out how effective it is. The power of 20-40 Armor Reduction is extremely strong, and combined with Wither it's just ridiculous how much damage a champion like MF/Twitch/Graves/Caitlyn/Draven can throw down with impunity. I don't know if Spellsy reads this thread, but I think conferring with him regarding its potential would be a good idea. I'm confident enough in the concept to suggest we add it to our ranked tests and even build team compositions around it.

AP Duo lanes have actually now appeared in LCS EU (Soraka/Nidalee). Vindication.

For this Friday's testing I think I'd like to avoid inhouses and work exclusively via queues. Inhouses are fun, but with two teams of players going out we can test twice as much without having to designate a control group.


Also, support Kayle suffers from "Why isn't she <insert role/position here>" syndrome. She might work, but unless she gets nerfed again I don't know why you'd make her support.

I'm really excited because I can actually participate for the full duration this week! (If you guys'll have me.)
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
March 05 2013 00:24 GMT
#822
The Soraka/Nidalee thing wasn't quite what we were doing because they used no ADC.

Seemed legit though.The first game they did real well, and the second game I think you could chalk up to bad early game play rather than the composition causing them the loss.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 05 2013 03:19 GMT
#823
Well they telegraphed the composition so SK just picked against it, too.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-06 08:37:54
March 06 2013 08:33 GMT
#824
Has anyone ever tried jungle jayce?

He has pretty high Single and AoE damage, a knockback, a gap closer, that massive speedboost. I think he could probably clear damn fast and gank pretty well with Speedboost-> Hammer Gap Closer -> Knockback...

I feel like it should be tested. Why hasn't it? o.o

I think a jungle farmed jayce that just really tanky would be sweet late game anyway, that free Shuryelia's is awesome.

I'd test it out myself, but jayce one of few champs I dont actually own.
TSBspartacus
Profile Joined October 2011
England1046 Posts
March 06 2013 12:53 GMT
#825
On March 06 2013 17:33 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone ever tried jungle jayce?

He has pretty high Single and AoE damage, a knockback, a gap closer, that massive speedboost. I think he could probably clear damn fast and gank pretty well with Speedboost-> Hammer Gap Closer -> Knockback...

I feel like it should be tested. Why hasn't it? o.o

I think a jungle farmed jayce that just really tanky would be sweet late game anyway, that free Shuryelia's is awesome.

I'd test it out myself, but jayce one of few champs I dont actually own.

Mana heavy and no initial sustain might make his start a bit rough and he needs a lot of farm to be really effective, but building him bruiser/utility might work well out of the jungle. I like the idea, probably worth a try.
Argoth.
Profile Joined December 2004
Germany1961 Posts
March 06 2013 14:57 GMT
#826
Considering double AP bot: I think Froggen and Krepo were running brand(froggen) and Annie (Krepo) quite a bit. Our very own Entenzwerg can confirm as he was at least once on the other side with AD kennen I think. The laning phase was sick strong with double stun and burst, only problem was the lategame fell off quite a bit due to no sustained damage.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-06 15:49:04
March 06 2013 15:38 GMT
#827
So this week I did 20+ mid Tristana games, for fun.

Some matchups that I've noticed:

Akali, Kassadin, Talon, Khazix all very easy. Akali harder after she hits 6, but I had such a lead on her that it wasn't so bad. Mordekaiser very easy early game but gets harder and harder as his shield starts getting bigger and bigger.

Ryze, Morgana, Ahri almost impossible to lane against. They have great ways to punish you when you try to autoattack them, and Morgana just outfarms you and punishes you if you try to engage.

Annie, Lux, TF, Malzahar kind of stalemates, just turn into farm fests. I think a better Annie could trouble me.


So pretty much like we were expecting. She's strong against melee assassin diver types who she can abuse with autoattacks, or against champs who have bad waveclear. She just autos them and pushes and when they try to dive rocket jumps away.

She's weak against champions who can put a lot of ranged burst damage down on demand when you try to go in for autos. If you try to auto Ryze he just snares you and out trades you. Ahri you're dead if you get charmed and even if you dodge it you're always in danger of her all in and have to play very careful. Morgana can outfarm you very easy and she's too hard to kill.

She doesn't like junglers who have knockups, because they interrupt her mid-jump and cancel it. Hecarim & Vi are more difficult to deal with. If you stun her or something like that while she's mid jump she continues the jump while stunned.

Tristana has strong ganks if you can get to other lanes on time. Her walk speed is abysmal so she just doesn't get anywhere quickly, and for her to gank well she typically needs to go the long way and get behind the enemy team for her ult. I like to pressure by pushing down the tower (which she is very good at) rather than ganking in most cases.

I'm running ArPen reds and lifesteal quints now and I think it's much stronger. Starting longsword+2 so I can rush BotRK, typically go Vamp Scepter + boots, then Bilgewater, then Berserker greaves, then BotRK. Against a lane where I want all damage and don't think I need sustain I have a full ArPen page.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 06 2013 15:53 GMT
#828
I actually tested jungle Jayce early on. There were several issues:
  • Clearing on him was mana-intensive, otherwise it was extremely slow.
  • Jayce is highly dependent on levels and/or farm, even if you're building bruiser, but jungling does not give him either.
  • Jayce can't really build pure tank and still be particularly useful late-game. His utility is good, but not good enough to make up for doing minimal damage.

It might be possible to make him work, but you'd have to do things like max W first and build Madred's, when a Jayce focused on tankiness/utility really wants to max Q and E.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
March 06 2013 15:53 GMT
#829
Also, this deserves its own post because it's SO stupid:

Quinns jump not only tracks like Twisted Advance and Vi's ult do, but when Tristana rocket jumps it reverses her facing during the jump.

So if Quinn E's you and you rocket jump while she's traveling, not only does she continue the entire length of your jump, but she vaults off of you in the direction you were jumping and ends up 525 range BEHIND you.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 06 2013 16:19 GMT
#830
I'm guessing you tried to jump to safety as Tristana, without success.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
March 06 2013 16:29 GMT
#831
In regards to the Banner of Command discussion a little while ago, I can't say when and who to get it on necessarily but an alternative use to a split push is to use the super minion as a bait when you have a couple outer turrets down. You're banking on the enemy team derping a tad but I used BoC on bot lane as it approached their 2nd turret. It appeared we were grouping middle to split push and the enemy Draven couldn't resist farming the wave and stopping the super minion. In reality Taric and Khazix were waiting for someone to solo clear the wave and we just killed the adc for free.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
March 06 2013 16:48 GMT
#832
In testing we concluded that Banner of Command was irrelevant to the tower rush strategy. By the time you finish it the game is over. In a more standard setup with a plan to split push it likely works considerably better.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-06 16:54:35
March 06 2013 16:50 GMT
#833
My experience with jungle Jayce is that it pretty much requires hogging blue buff like a madman more than anything. Clear speed is pretty good with hammer W+Q when you don't have to worry about mana. He exerts some serious pressure when he hogs blue buff, because he zips around the map at a pretty nice clip. Taxing lanes can help cover the farm deficit too.

I personally don't think maxing w over q is a huge deal, at least for ganks. It changes what does your damage, but it's not like you have to shake up your combo order or anything. Not having max q until later is a bit annoying though. I think the biggest strike against jungle Jayce is even if you can work around his weaknesses, it still comes down to being good at landing accelerated shock blasts as the game drags out. Awful lot of work when you could just play him top or mid and not have to worry about 5-6 extra things.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13984 Posts
March 06 2013 18:45 GMT
#834
had a nice couple ap duo games on soloq. People turn out to be less meta dependent and less giveing a shit about comps in bronze. We didn't sort out who was the support and who was the apc so neither of us bought wards at the start and the thresh hooks fucked us up a lot at level 1-3. I think thats where we were weakest. a lane swap early to get over the rough start until both of you can get chalices and a few levels is the most idea thing. after you both get the farm for that swapping back and going into kill/farm mode bot
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
March 06 2013 18:46 GMT
#835
I think that if you're gonna put Banner on a support, Janna is pretty much the best candidate.
First, she's extremely item-independent, so it doesn't really matter all that much what you buy.
Second, she's got the mobility to promote a minion and get to another lane quickly.
Third, the stats are all at least acceptable, with the AP and CDR being pretty reasonable.
Fourth, she fits the siege/poke playstyle quite well, which Banner works well with.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Pooshlmer
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1001 Posts
March 07 2013 02:20 GMT
#836
Ever try giving smite to mid/top instead of jungle? Choose someone who is effective with spellvamp quints and rushes revolver (Morde, Vlad, maybe Rumble/Akali?) and you can give the jungler either exhaust or teleport. Not sure what matchup you want to trade power from mid/top to jungle though.
LazyFailKid
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada750 Posts
March 07 2013 02:35 GMT
#837
On March 07 2013 11:20 Pooshlmer wrote:
Ever try giving smite to mid/top instead of jungle? Choose someone who is effective with spellvamp quints and rushes revolver (Morde, Vlad, maybe Rumble/Akali?) and you can give the jungler either exhaust or teleport. Not sure what matchup you want to trade power from mid/top to jungle though.

Then your clear time ends up being terrible though, also they have TOTAL control of your jungle. Not worth it in my opinion.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-07 03:26:03
March 07 2013 03:25 GMT
#838
If you did it you'd have to do it on the mid, they'd be able to smite their own buffs and have the best ability to waddle over to Dragon.

Still though, it would hurt your jungler because mid couldn't be there to smite red buff every time you want to do it.

You'd have to really want another summoner on your jungler, and also really make use of smite in lane for the spellvamp.

There are a couple junglers who could make use of two combat summoners early on. Shaco.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-07 06:00:48
March 07 2013 06:00 GMT
#839
Me and four friends have started queue-ing up with just five bruisers (kill lane bot usually has Garen). It's pretty funny. Garen/Wukong/Jarvan combo in teamrights is pretty lulz.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
March 07 2013 18:23 GMT
#840
On March 07 2013 12:25 Ketara wrote:
If you did it you'd have to do it on the mid, they'd be able to smite their own buffs and have the best ability to waddle over to Dragon.

Still though, it would hurt your jungler because mid couldn't be there to smite red buff every time you want to do it.

You'd have to really want another summoner on your jungler, and also really make use of smite in lane for the spellvamp.

There are a couple junglers who could make use of two combat summoners early on. Shaco.


I think it would be more suited to no-jungle setups where you have two or three lanes just shove super hard, then clear jungle.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
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