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On March 05 2013 08:30 Seuss wrote:
Ruminations:
I think Support Nasus is clearly effective. It's no longer a matter of theory, just a matter of figuring out how effective it is. The power of 20-40 Armor Reduction is extremely strong, and combined with Wither it's just ridiculous how much damage a champion like MF/Twitch/Graves/Caitlyn/Draven can throw down with impunity. I don't know if Spellsy reads this thread, but I think conferring with him regarding its potential would be a good idea. I'm confident enough in the concept to suggest we add it to our ranked tests and even build team compositions around it.
AP Duo lanes have actually now appeared in LCS EU (Soraka/Nidalee). Vindication.
For this Friday's testing I think I'd like to avoid inhouses and work exclusively via queues. Inhouses are fun, but with two teams of players going out we can test twice as much without having to designate a control group.
Also, support Kayle suffers from "Why isn't she <insert role/position here>" syndrome. She might work, but unless she gets nerfed again I don't know why you'd make her support.
I'm really excited because I can actually participate for the full duration this week! (If you guys'll have me.)
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The Soraka/Nidalee thing wasn't quite what we were doing because they used no ADC.
Seemed legit though.The first game they did real well, and the second game I think you could chalk up to bad early game play rather than the composition causing them the loss.
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Well they telegraphed the composition so SK just picked against it, too.
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Has anyone ever tried jungle jayce?
He has pretty high Single and AoE damage, a knockback, a gap closer, that massive speedboost. I think he could probably clear damn fast and gank pretty well with Speedboost-> Hammer Gap Closer -> Knockback...
I feel like it should be tested. Why hasn't it? o.o
I think a jungle farmed jayce that just really tanky would be sweet late game anyway, that free Shuryelia's is awesome.
I'd test it out myself, but jayce one of few champs I dont actually own.
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On March 06 2013 17:33 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone ever tried jungle jayce?
He has pretty high Single and AoE damage, a knockback, a gap closer, that massive speedboost. I think he could probably clear damn fast and gank pretty well with Speedboost-> Hammer Gap Closer -> Knockback...
I feel like it should be tested. Why hasn't it? o.o
I think a jungle farmed jayce that just really tanky would be sweet late game anyway, that free Shuryelia's is awesome.
I'd test it out myself, but jayce one of few champs I dont actually own.
Mana heavy and no initial sustain might make his start a bit rough and he needs a lot of farm to be really effective, but building him bruiser/utility might work well out of the jungle. I like the idea, probably worth a try.
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Considering double AP bot: I think Froggen and Krepo were running brand(froggen) and Annie (Krepo) quite a bit. Our very own Entenzwerg can confirm as he was at least once on the other side with AD kennen I think. The laning phase was sick strong with double stun and burst, only problem was the lategame fell off quite a bit due to no sustained damage.
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So this week I did 20+ mid Tristana games, for fun.
Some matchups that I've noticed:
Akali, Kassadin, Talon, Khazix all very easy. Akali harder after she hits 6, but I had such a lead on her that it wasn't so bad. Mordekaiser very easy early game but gets harder and harder as his shield starts getting bigger and bigger.
Ryze, Morgana, Ahri almost impossible to lane against. They have great ways to punish you when you try to autoattack them, and Morgana just outfarms you and punishes you if you try to engage.
Annie, Lux, TF, Malzahar kind of stalemates, just turn into farm fests. I think a better Annie could trouble me.
So pretty much like we were expecting. She's strong against melee assassin diver types who she can abuse with autoattacks, or against champs who have bad waveclear. She just autos them and pushes and when they try to dive rocket jumps away.
She's weak against champions who can put a lot of ranged burst damage down on demand when you try to go in for autos. If you try to auto Ryze he just snares you and out trades you. Ahri you're dead if you get charmed and even if you dodge it you're always in danger of her all in and have to play very careful. Morgana can outfarm you very easy and she's too hard to kill.
She doesn't like junglers who have knockups, because they interrupt her mid-jump and cancel it. Hecarim & Vi are more difficult to deal with. If you stun her or something like that while she's mid jump she continues the jump while stunned.
Tristana has strong ganks if you can get to other lanes on time. Her walk speed is abysmal so she just doesn't get anywhere quickly, and for her to gank well she typically needs to go the long way and get behind the enemy team for her ult. I like to pressure by pushing down the tower (which she is very good at) rather than ganking in most cases.
I'm running ArPen reds and lifesteal quints now and I think it's much stronger. Starting longsword+2 so I can rush BotRK, typically go Vamp Scepter + boots, then Bilgewater, then Berserker greaves, then BotRK. Against a lane where I want all damage and don't think I need sustain I have a full ArPen page.
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I actually tested jungle Jayce early on. There were several issues:- Clearing on him was mana-intensive, otherwise it was extremely slow.
- Jayce is highly dependent on levels and/or farm, even if you're building bruiser, but jungling does not give him either.
- Jayce can't really build pure tank and still be particularly useful late-game. His utility is good, but not good enough to make up for doing minimal damage.
It might be possible to make him work, but you'd have to do things like max W first and build Madred's, when a Jayce focused on tankiness/utility really wants to max Q and E.
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Also, this deserves its own post because it's SO stupid:
Quinns jump not only tracks like Twisted Advance and Vi's ult do, but when Tristana rocket jumps it reverses her facing during the jump.
So if Quinn E's you and you rocket jump while she's traveling, not only does she continue the entire length of your jump, but she vaults off of you in the direction you were jumping and ends up 525 range BEHIND you.
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I'm guessing you tried to jump to safety as Tristana, without success.
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In regards to the Banner of Command discussion a little while ago, I can't say when and who to get it on necessarily but an alternative use to a split push is to use the super minion as a bait when you have a couple outer turrets down. You're banking on the enemy team derping a tad but I used BoC on bot lane as it approached their 2nd turret. It appeared we were grouping middle to split push and the enemy Draven couldn't resist farming the wave and stopping the super minion. In reality Taric and Khazix were waiting for someone to solo clear the wave and we just killed the adc for free.
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In testing we concluded that Banner of Command was irrelevant to the tower rush strategy. By the time you finish it the game is over. In a more standard setup with a plan to split push it likely works considerably better.
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My experience with jungle Jayce is that it pretty much requires hogging blue buff like a madman more than anything. Clear speed is pretty good with hammer W+Q when you don't have to worry about mana. He exerts some serious pressure when he hogs blue buff, because he zips around the map at a pretty nice clip. Taxing lanes can help cover the farm deficit too.
I personally don't think maxing w over q is a huge deal, at least for ganks. It changes what does your damage, but it's not like you have to shake up your combo order or anything. Not having max q until later is a bit annoying though. I think the biggest strike against jungle Jayce is even if you can work around his weaknesses, it still comes down to being good at landing accelerated shock blasts as the game drags out. Awful lot of work when you could just play him top or mid and not have to worry about 5-6 extra things.
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had a nice couple ap duo games on soloq. People turn out to be less meta dependent and less giveing a shit about comps in bronze. We didn't sort out who was the support and who was the apc so neither of us bought wards at the start and the thresh hooks fucked us up a lot at level 1-3. I think thats where we were weakest. a lane swap early to get over the rough start until both of you can get chalices and a few levels is the most idea thing. after you both get the farm for that swapping back and going into kill/farm mode bot
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United States3977 Posts
I think that if you're gonna put Banner on a support, Janna is pretty much the best candidate.
First, she's extremely item-independent, so it doesn't really matter all that much what you buy.
Second, she's got the mobility to promote a minion and get to another lane quickly.
Third, the stats are all at least acceptable, with the AP and CDR being pretty reasonable.
Fourth, she fits the siege/poke playstyle quite well, which Banner works well with.
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Ever try giving smite to mid/top instead of jungle? Choose someone who is effective with spellvamp quints and rushes revolver (Morde, Vlad, maybe Rumble/Akali?) and you can give the jungler either exhaust or teleport. Not sure what matchup you want to trade power from mid/top to jungle though.
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On March 07 2013 11:20 Pooshlmer wrote:
Ever try giving smite to mid/top instead of jungle? Choose someone who is effective with spellvamp quints and rushes revolver (Morde, Vlad, maybe Rumble/Akali?) and you can give the jungler either exhaust or teleport. Not sure what matchup you want to trade power from mid/top to jungle though.
Then your clear time ends up being terrible though, also they have TOTAL control of your jungle. Not worth it in my opinion.
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If you did it you'd have to do it on the mid, they'd be able to smite their own buffs and have the best ability to waddle over to Dragon.
Still though, it would hurt your jungler because mid couldn't be there to smite red buff every time you want to do it.
You'd have to really want another summoner on your jungler, and also really make use of smite in lane for the spellvamp.
There are a couple junglers who could make use of two combat summoners early on. Shaco.
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Me and four friends have started queue-ing up with just five bruisers (kill lane bot usually has Garen). It's pretty funny. Garen/Wukong/Jarvan combo in teamrights is pretty lulz.
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United States3977 Posts
On March 07 2013 12:25 Ketara wrote:
If you did it you'd have to do it on the mid, they'd be able to smite their own buffs and have the best ability to waddle over to Dragon.
Still though, it would hurt your jungler because mid couldn't be there to smite red buff every time you want to do it.
You'd have to really want another summoner on your jungler, and also really make use of smite in lane for the spellvamp.
There are a couple junglers who could make use of two combat summoners early on. Shaco.
I think it would be more suited to no-jungle setups where you have two or three lanes just shove super hard, then clear jungle.
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EPT
