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Australia18228 Posts
Discussion: Double Jungle
My 5s team has tried double-jungle + 1v2 bottom to some degree of success.
I'm the 1v2er (usually ADC in a normal comp), and I run Tele+Flash (need to try Tele+Exhaust to stop dives) on either Gangplank or Nidalee. Early game usually begins with one jungler taking Blue, and the other taking Red while I take wolves/wraiths. I recall and then continue to jungle until right before the enemy minion wave reaches my tower, which I then teleport down.
The pressure from our double jungle prevents the 3-man dives that can occur in 1v2 lanes, and the heals are enough to sustain the ADC pokes, when trying to last-hit under tower. The poke from Parley/Nidalee's AA slows down the enemy ADC from taking the tower too early and the 1v1ing power of the two champions means that their support can't leave the ADC to solo the lane.
I find that I am able to easily keep up on CS with the ADC (though some of it is from jungle creeps), though I can't stop them from taking turret without a gank (from Mid/jungles). If they do end up taking turret, I just split-push and help fights with GP ults/teleports.
My starting build pre-Flask nerf was Rejuv + Flask + pots into a ward. I sometimes get an early Cloth Armor or Doran's Shield if the ADC is harassing me instead of the turret.
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add me: SKTT1
I like trying to break the meta, and I am terrible. I should fit right in.
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On January 17 2013 16:13 Two_DoWn wrote:
Support Nasus.
That is all.
WHAT ABOUT AOE NUNU THO
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MVHXk.png)
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On January 17 2013 17:53 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:WHAT ABOUT AOE NUNU THO
It got outcaried by speed garen.
Get on my level.
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On January 17 2013 04:06 HeavOnEarth wrote:
anyone up for rank 5s?
AS LONG AS WE PICK STRATS BEFOREHAND
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nobody fukin anywhere fuk!
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United States10536 Posts
On January 17 2013 17:56 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 17:53 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On January 17 2013 16:13 Two_DoWn wrote:
Support Nasus.
That is all. WHAT ABOUT AOE NUNU THO It got out cariedks'd by speed garen. Get on my level.
Fixed.
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i was playing with ohmwrecker yesterday...
then i thought...
maybe ohmwrecker jungle fiddle? free tower dives even if they do see you coming.
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Australia18228 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:47 kainzero wrote:
i was playing with ohmwrecker yesterday...
then i thought...
maybe ohmwrecker jungle fiddle? free tower dives even if they do see you coming.
Or... you can get Zhonya's (which can do the same job)
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United States10536 Posts
The only problem with Ohmwrecker is that by the time you can reasonably finish it the laning phase is over, so you're not diving single targets but entire teams. As a result, Zhonya's will basically accomplish the same thing while being more useful in general (for the purposes of Fiddle ult).
e;fb
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United States47024 Posts
On January 17 2013 17:06 Inflicted_ wrote:
Discussion: Double Jungle
My 5s team has tried double-jungle + 1v2 bottom to some degree of success.
I'm the 1v2er (usually ADC in a normal comp), and I run Tele+Flash (need to try Tele+Exhaust to stop dives) on either Gangplank or Nidalee. Early game usually begins with one jungler taking Blue, and the other taking Red while I take wolves/wraiths. I recall and then continue to jungle until right before the enemy minion wave reaches my tower, which I then teleport down.
The pressure from our double jungle prevents the 3-man dives that can occur in 1v2 lanes, and the heals are enough to sustain the ADC pokes, when trying to last-hit under tower. The poke from Parley/Nidalee's AA slows down the enemy ADC from taking the tower too early and the 1v1ing power of the two champions means that their support can't leave the ADC to solo the lane.
I find that I am able to easily keep up on CS with the ADC (though some of it is from jungle creeps), though I can't stop them from taking turret without a gank (from Mid/jungles). If they do end up taking turret, I just split-push and help fights with GP ults/teleports.
My starting build pre-Flask nerf was Rejuv + Flask + pots into a ward. I sometimes get an early Cloth Armor or Doran's Shield if the ADC is harassing me instead of the turret.
Double jungle is more or less just having an actual jungler + a roaming support. It has the same advantages, but suffers the same weaknesses.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 18 2013 03:03 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 17:06 Inflicted_ wrote:
Discussion: Double Jungle
My 5s team has tried double-jungle + 1v2 bottom to some degree of success.
I'm the 1v2er (usually ADC in a normal comp), and I run Tele+Flash (need to try Tele+Exhaust to stop dives) on either Gangplank or Nidalee. Early game usually begins with one jungler taking Blue, and the other taking Red while I take wolves/wraiths. I recall and then continue to jungle until right before the enemy minion wave reaches my tower, which I then teleport down.
The pressure from our double jungle prevents the 3-man dives that can occur in 1v2 lanes, and the heals are enough to sustain the ADC pokes, when trying to last-hit under tower. The poke from Parley/Nidalee's AA slows down the enemy ADC from taking the tower too early and the 1v1ing power of the two champions means that their support can't leave the ADC to solo the lane.
I find that I am able to easily keep up on CS with the ADC (though some of it is from jungle creeps), though I can't stop them from taking turret without a gank (from Mid/jungles). If they do end up taking turret, I just split-push and help fights with GP ults/teleports.
My starting build pre-Flask nerf was Rejuv + Flask + pots into a ward. I sometimes get an early Cloth Armor or Doran's Shield if the ADC is harassing me instead of the turret. Double jungle is more or less just having an actual jungler + a roaming support. It has the same advantages, but suffers the same weaknesses.
but but but you has 2 smites for ultimate objective control. 
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United States47024 Posts
On January 18 2013 03:04 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 03:03 TheYango wrote:On January 17 2013 17:06 Inflicted_ wrote:
Discussion: Double Jungle
My 5s team has tried double-jungle + 1v2 bottom to some degree of success.
I'm the 1v2er (usually ADC in a normal comp), and I run Tele+Flash (need to try Tele+Exhaust to stop dives) on either Gangplank or Nidalee. Early game usually begins with one jungler taking Blue, and the other taking Red while I take wolves/wraiths. I recall and then continue to jungle until right before the enemy minion wave reaches my tower, which I then teleport down.
The pressure from our double jungle prevents the 3-man dives that can occur in 1v2 lanes, and the heals are enough to sustain the ADC pokes, when trying to last-hit under tower. The poke from Parley/Nidalee's AA slows down the enemy ADC from taking the tower too early and the 1v1ing power of the two champions means that their support can't leave the ADC to solo the lane.
I find that I am able to easily keep up on CS with the ADC (though some of it is from jungle creeps), though I can't stop them from taking turret without a gank (from Mid/jungles). If they do end up taking turret, I just split-push and help fights with GP ults/teleports.
My starting build pre-Flask nerf was Rejuv + Flask + pots into a ward. I sometimes get an early Cloth Armor or Doran's Shield if the ADC is harassing me instead of the turret. Double jungle is more or less just having an actual jungler + a roaming support. It has the same advantages, but suffers the same weaknesses. but but but you has 2 smites for ultimate objective control.
Honestly, I have a hard time believing that's relevant a lot of the time.
If you run into their jungler with your double jungle, you don't need the double smite to take his buffs--you can just force him off them because there's 2 of you unless he has teammates there, in which case they'll force you off because Top+Jungle or AP+Jungle are going to be stronger than 2xhalf-Junglers.
The times when 2xSmite lets you take a buff that you couldn't have just killed the jungler and taken anyway with just 1 Smite are honestly speaking probably pretty rare.
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On January 18 2013 02:59 Seuss wrote:
The only problem with Ohmwrecker is that by the time you can reasonably finish it the laning phase is over, so you're not diving single targets but entire teams. As a result, Zhonya's will basically accomplish the same thing while being more useful in general (for the purposes of Fiddle ult).
e;fb
yeah i thought about that too, then i was trying to think of situations where ohmwrecker would be better than zhonya's. like i guess you could start fights under tower even after laning phase, but you need survivability and the health/mana on ohm doesn't do it.
then i was trying to think of a character that has equally strong burst and would benefit from ohm. didn't come up with anything.
i'd say maybe ohm after zhonya's but i don't think jungle fiddle gets that much money.
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Australia18228 Posts
On January 18 2013 03:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 03:04 Roffles wrote:On January 18 2013 03:03 TheYango wrote:On January 17 2013 17:06 Inflicted_ wrote:
Discussion: Double Jungle
My 5s team has tried double-jungle + 1v2 bottom to some degree of success.
I'm the 1v2er (usually ADC in a normal comp), and I run Tele+Flash (need to try Tele+Exhaust to stop dives) on either Gangplank or Nidalee. Early game usually begins with one jungler taking Blue, and the other taking Red while I take wolves/wraiths. I recall and then continue to jungle until right before the enemy minion wave reaches my tower, which I then teleport down.
The pressure from our double jungle prevents the 3-man dives that can occur in 1v2 lanes, and the heals are enough to sustain the ADC pokes, when trying to last-hit under tower. The poke from Parley/Nidalee's AA slows down the enemy ADC from taking the tower too early and the 1v1ing power of the two champions means that their support can't leave the ADC to solo the lane.
I find that I am able to easily keep up on CS with the ADC (though some of it is from jungle creeps), though I can't stop them from taking turret without a gank (from Mid/jungles). If they do end up taking turret, I just split-push and help fights with GP ults/teleports.
My starting build pre-Flask nerf was Rejuv + Flask + pots into a ward. I sometimes get an early Cloth Armor or Doran's Shield if the ADC is harassing me instead of the turret. Double jungle is more or less just having an actual jungler + a roaming support. It has the same advantages, but suffers the same weaknesses. but but but you has 2 smites for ultimate objective control. Honestly, I have a hard time believing that's relevant a lot of the time. If you run into their jungler with your double jungle, you don't need the double smite to take his buffs--you can just force him off them because there's 2 of you unless he has teammates there, in which case they'll force you off because Top+Jungle or AP+Jungle are going to be stronger than 2xhalf-Junglers. The times when 2xSmite lets you take a buff that you couldn't have just killed the jungler and taken anyway with just 1 Smite are honestly speaking probably pretty rare.
It allows you to take both of your buffs early, or to potentially steal an enemys' while securing your own. It can also pressure at both sides of the map/jungle (eg 4-man pressure blue while other jungler steals their red), and might also make up for a weaker/lower-level jungler when trying to dragon.
A roaming support would also work (though we haven't tried it), but I think that Smite allows them to be more proactive and not have to rely on constantly ganking to gain income.
I guess, having double smite would also force the top/mid laners to move out of their lanes, and help their jungler more often, which can allow you to snowball those lanes easier/consistently than if you tried to camp them.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 18 2013 03:33 Inflicted_ wrote:
It allows you to take both of your buffs early, or to potentially steal an enemys' while securing your own. It can also pressure at both sides of the map/jungle (eg 4-man pressure blue while other jungler steals their red), and might also make up for a weaker/lower-level jungler when trying to dragon.
All of these are already possible with a single smite. People do smiteless leashes/1v2 laners do buffs by themselves at level 1.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
But it's like WHAM BAM SHAZAM 2k baron heatlh KABAAM!
In all honesty, it sucks. But its fun when you're trolling with 5 smites. Huehue.
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Some friends and I did double jungle in 5s for a bit last season. The entire strategy was to keep the enemy jungler down as much as possible. We picked a mid with very strong early levels, depending what the enemies pick (Caitlyn/Cassio) to put pressure midlane. Always tried to get Yorick to put him into the 1v2 lane. Mainly because Yorick can just bully the enemy ad carry as soon as the support tries to leave. Save toplane for last and try to counterpick their top. Or just pick Kennen (that was when he was still really good). For jungler, we usually picked 2 out of Udyr/Lee sin/Shyvanna. 2 strong duelists basically.
The teams we faced always expected an invade, which we were not going for. Get a bit of ward coverage at the start, then each jungler gets one of your buffs and you start invading. The enemy jungler gets nothing from that point on. The enemy mid couldn't really help, because of huge pressure from our midlane.
We didn't really run into any team that reacted well to it, people just can't adapt well to non-meta stuff, because they just getr angry when people don't follow the meta. The only time we lost was when our Yorick horribly failed to hold the lane and just died. Couldn't recover the fed enemy botlane. Otherwise when it works it's still not an instant win, beacuse with the junglers we picked, they would always fall behind quite a bit to where they should be. It always went well though, because the enemy jungler got nothing and there was huge pressure on the lanes all the time and we could exploit that.
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The double smite is only relevant when you're on dragon, baron, or using it to do a timing gank on a lane because you had two smites and now you're ganking a lane at lv 2-3 with both buffs and two junglers when your opponents are still level 2.
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This group sounds very interesting and I would love to join as a low elo student researcher. My area(s) of focus would be on Heimer and his passive's interaction in the game, defensive strats involving teleport for a passive player, and making Shaco even more ban-worthy/rage inducing.
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EPT
