EPT[Champion] Jayce - Page 8
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On September 17 2012 20:32 obesechicken13 wrote: I don't think there's going to be a happy resolution. I disagree with everything you guys say and think you need to read more. You say squishy ad jayce is a bad build. The consensus best build on jayce is squishy ad plus GA. You disagree for reasons still unbeknownst to us. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
i've got the general skill order down (Q>W>E with a point of E early, don't touch R) and basic playstyle down. i still don't seem to be hitting as hard as opposing jayces though do we have a definitive rune/mastery decision on jayce yet? currently running 21/9/0 with both 10%mpen and 10%arpen. runepage is a mix of AD and arpen (plus defensive yellows/blues). is this optimal? should i prioritize AD over arpen or vice versa? as for playstyle, i've been sticking primarily in ranged. need to learn when to go melee and QE a bit better. is that the best way to trade as jayce? just melee QE ranged poke poke back off? which part of triforce do i build first? been going phage first but ranged procs are pretty inconsequential. should i prioritize sheen? after TF BT GA, should i go more BTs or LW, or something else entirely? | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 18 2012 05:02 gtrsrs wrote: so i finally picked up jayce and decided to play him a bit when i get top lane and in twisted treeline i've got the general skill order down (Q>W>E with a point of E early, don't touch R) and basic playstyle down. i still don't seem to be hitting as hard as opposing jayces though do we have a definitive rune/mastery decision on jayce yet? currently running 21/9/0 with both 10%mpen and 10%arpen. runepage is a mix of AD and arpen (plus defensive yellows/blues). is this optimal? should i prioritize AD over arpen or vice versa? as for playstyle, i've been sticking primarily in ranged. need to learn when to go melee and QE a bit better. is that the best way to trade as jayce? just melee QE ranged poke poke back off? which part of triforce do i build first? been going phage first but ranged procs are pretty inconsequential. should i prioritize sheen? after TF BT GA, should i go more BTs or LW, or something else entirely? Suppose to be E first. From what I've noticed from a lot of top Jayce players (like WoDx, and Dyrus), general consensus is dblade->phage->triforce->BT->GA. Though BT is better than TF, TF just has a much much smoother build. Randuins is pretty solid choice after GA, it really depends though, if your team is looking to do more poke damage, another BT or LW is pretty solid choice. If your team is engaging more often, grab Randuins or Frznheart. Shurelya's is also a good choice on him if your team needs a 2nd shurelyas. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
My best match-ups so far have been with Jax and Swain. Jax works because Leap Strike's cooldown is a bit lower than Thundering Blow, meaning you can WQauto (with R proc if you pre-hit a minion), get knocked away (if he doesn't knock you away then you'll outtrade him easy, just start Counter-Strike if he uses Hyper-Charge. As soon as Leap Strike cools you can jump on him again and for sure get in a full round of autos. Most Jayces will learn to back away at this point, but that just means you can farm safely and be much stronger late game. Swain is much easier, just don't eat his speed Qs in the face and throw Torments at him on CD. He can't jump you because you'll fuck him up instantly and he can't harass safely (except with ranged Q) without being at risk of a WEQR combo. Thoughts from the Jayce perspective? | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On September 18 2012 09:17 Alzadar wrote: So I'm holding off on buying Jayce because I expect him to be nerfed and/or perma-banned in the near future, but in the time being I'm getting lots of experience laning against him. My best match-ups so far have been with Jax and Swain. Jax works because Leap Strike's cooldown is a bit lower than Thundering Blow, meaning you can WQauto (with R proc if you pre-hit a minion), get knocked away (if he doesn't knock you away then you'll outtrade him easy, just start Counter-Strike if he uses Hyper-Charge. As soon as Leap Strike cools you can jump on him again and for sure get in a full round of autos. Most Jayces will learn to back away at this point, but that just means you can farm safely and be much stronger late game. Swain is much easier, just don't eat his speed Qs in the face and throw Torments at him on CD. He can't jump you because you'll fuck him up instantly and he can't harass safely (except with ranged Q) without being at risk of a WEQR combo. Thoughts from the Jayce perspective? Irelia and Jax both win if played properly in my experience. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On September 18 2012 05:02 gtrsrs wrote: so i finally picked up jayce and decided to play him a bit when i get top lane and in twisted treeline i've got the general skill order down (Q>W>E with a point of E early, don't touch R) and basic playstyle down. i still don't seem to be hitting as hard as opposing jayces though do we have a definitive rune/mastery decision on jayce yet? currently running 21/9/0 with both 10%mpen and 10%arpen. runepage is a mix of AD and arpen (plus defensive yellows/blues). is this optimal? should i prioritize AD over arpen or vice versa? as for playstyle, i've been sticking primarily in ranged. need to learn when to go melee and QE a bit better. is that the best way to trade as jayce? just melee QE ranged poke poke back off? which part of triforce do i build first? been going phage first but ranged procs are pretty inconsequential. should i prioritize sheen? after TF BT GA, should i go more BTs or LW, or something else entirely? IE and LW instead of more BT's. | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
He seems to do loads of damage, be able to jump on me/knock me back, as well as snipe from a screen away. I can't tell if he's overpowered, but he's certainly very flexible, looks like a lot of fun to play. Plus he has a massive hammer. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On September 18 2012 09:35 Perplex wrote: Irelia and Jax both win if played properly in my experience. Mind sharing said experience? I still have no idea how to play Irelia against him, his disengage is simply too good and it's very hard to force prolonged trades against him, which is were Jax and Irelia would destroy him. Really curious about Jax too, he's stronger than Irelia in burst and committed fights post-6, but since his jump doesn't reset I'm not sure how you should be able to reach him if he's in cannon form. | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 19 2012 01:19 Chexx wrote: What was the consens on jungle Jayce? I mean he has 3 AOE abilitys, manareg on hit, speedbuff, jump looks like a good jungler. Kit seems fine, but it's really iffy in practice. Your AoE isn't as fast or spammable as someone like Skarner/Shy/Hec/Amumu, and your single target clearing isn't super fast. He also lacks any sort of health sustain (though I guess you could start Vamp and go Wriggle's, ugh), so he's not very safe. He has some strengths, though. Decent ganks (slow and knockback, obviously), can do just damage ganks by running by and cannon EQ'ing someone for a bunch of health. He has great dueling, so you can catch people, especially the other jungler, by surprise and chunk them. If you get a point in W early, you also don't have to worry about Blue as much, so he's a bit more flexible in routes. Overall, good for a "non-jungle-specified" jungler, average to ok as far as total junglers go. If you really want another ADC/bruiser on your team (your top is someone tanky like Singed or Malph, want more damage from the jungle), hes a decent pick, but not over someone like Jax, and I'd probably put Darius above him as far as straight Jungling goes. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On September 19 2012 00:56 Alaric wrote: Mind sharing said experience? I still have no idea how to play Irelia against him, his disengage is simply too good and it's very hard to force prolonged trades against him, which is were Jax and Irelia would destroy him. Really curious about Jax too, he's stronger than Irelia in burst and committed fights post-6, but since his jump doesn't reset I'm not sure how you should be able to reach him if he's in cannon form. For Irelia, I guess wait til he's near a low minion. Jump to that/kill it for reset, jump back at him after knockback. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On September 19 2012 01:19 Chexx wrote: What was the consens on jungle Jayce? I mean he has 3 AOE abilitys, manareg on hit, speedbuff, jump looks like a good jungler. Jungler Jayce overwhelmingly favors maxing W first, which makes your ganks pretty trivial early and your inital clears aren't so great. He seems far better top lane. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 19 2012 01:19 Chexx wrote: What was the consens on jungle Jayce? I mean he has 3 AOE abilitys, manareg on hit, speedbuff, jump looks like a good jungler. Terrible. You have to max W first for clearing speed, but your ganking tools are Q and E (and limited at that). | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 19 2012 01:47 Sufficiency wrote: Terrible. You have to max W first for clearing speed, but your ganking tools are Q and E (and limited at that). Well, one point in QE isn't terrible, since (hammer form anyway) you're only going to be able to use each once in a gank whether they're rank 1 or rank 5, the important part is that you get the slow and knockback. Cannon-W-empowered damage is not bad by a long shot, especially if you come in, slow/knockback, then auto-W-autoautoauto with a couple DBlades and/or a Phage. That said, it's still bad compared to most junglers or his own laning. Feasible, but not something I'd do if I wanted to win. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 19 2012 01:50 Requizen wrote: Well, one point in QE isn't terrible, since (hammer form anyway) you're only going to be able to use each once in a gank whether they're rank 1 or rank 5, the important part is that you get the slow and knockback. Cannon-W-empowered damage is not bad by a long shot, especially if you come in, slow/knockback, then auto-W-autoautoauto with a couple DBlades and/or a Phage. That said, it's still bad compared to most junglers or his own laning. Feasible, but not something I'd do if I wanted to win. So the problem is that by this standard most champions can jungle. Most champions have some sort of AOE ability that can be used as a clear, and at least one CC which can be used for ganks. Also Phage works on every single champion. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On September 19 2012 00:56 Alaric wrote: Mind sharing said experience? I still have no idea how to play Irelia against him, his disengage is simply too good and it's very hard to force prolonged trades against him, which is were Jax and Irelia would destroy him. Really curious about Jax too, he's stronger than Irelia in burst and committed fights post-6, but since his jump doesn't reset I'm not sure how you should be able to reach him if he's in cannon form. the thing about jayce vs irelia in the early game is that whoever engages first, loses. If irelia goes onto jayce, jayce hammer + auto + q + e's you away, and you will lose the trade. If jayce goes onto irelia, irelia q's back the distance lost from jayce e, eq strike will prob stun, since you just got chunked, and then you get to smack jayce for a couple of seconds with true dmg until jayce can ranged-form + e out, and jayce loses the trade. ofc, this is assuming good play on both sides, and irelia also has a lvl 2 vulnerability that she has to watch out for, where jayce can pound on her with no consequences. Later on in the game, irelia's innate and itemized tankiness + truedmg and aspeed means that irelia will, most likely, beat jayce in a 1v1 vaccum. This completely ignores jayce's team-utility ofc, which I think is much higher than irelia's, but it can be argued both ways as to which one you want late game. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 19 2012 02:02 Sufficiency wrote: So the problem is that by this standard most champions can jungle. Most champions have some sort of AOE ability that can be used as a clear, and at least one CC which can be used for ganks. Also Phage works on every single champion. Right, in the new jungle you can jungle with most everyone. I'd just put Jayce on the higher side of "everyone that's not a viable jungler" because his base numbers are really good, he brings good utility even if he has no ganks and slow clear (accel gate is amazing), and as long as he can get E maxed out eventually, he really can build tanky shit like Aegis/Shurelia/FMallet from the jungle and be fine. I'm not advocating him as a jungle, nor should you use that standard to say "this champ is a good jungler because x", but if you really want to make it work and your team lets you, there are worse champs you can put in there. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On September 19 2012 02:06 Requizen wrote: Right, in the new jungle you can jungle with most everyone. I'd just put Jayce on the higher side of "everyone that's not a viable jungler" because his base numbers are really good, he brings good utility even if he has no ganks and slow clear (accel gate is amazing), and as long as he can get E maxed out eventually, he really can build tanky shit like Aegis/Shurelia/FMallet from the jungle and be fine. I'm not advocating him as a jungle, nor should you use that standard to say "this champ is a good jungler because x", but if you really want to make it work and your team lets you, there are worse champs you can put in there. Being one of the best non-viable junglers isn't really useful, you're still a non-viable jungler. It would be something else entirely if Jayce was a perfectly capable jungler who simply didn't fit the meta (e.g. Karthus, Akali, Jax, Tryndamere etc.), but his actual jungling is just bad. | ||
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