EPT[Discussion] Season 2 Masteries - Page 9
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Junglers, don't worry about the exp mastery so far down in the Utility tree. Riot plans to buff jungle minion experience. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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volcryn
United States149 Posts
On November 15 2011 06:05 Chairman Ray wrote: How should I build nocturne? I really want 21 in offense, but i can't decide between 9 in defense or 9 in util. In defense I get smite mastery and a buckload of defenses, but in utility I get the essential 20% buff duration, but the 8 other points are not as valuable. last post on pg 5 has my thoughts - on paper I'm really feeling a 9/9/9 +3 on nocturne - its mostly about weighing the 20% buff duration (movespeed is good but not incredibly valuable per point) on those early clears and ganks vs. the increased damage output late game | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 15 2011 06:05 Chairman Ray wrote: How should I build nocturne? I really want 21 in offense, but i can't decide between 9 in defense or 9 in util. In defense I get smite mastery and a buckload of defenses, but in utility I get the essential 20% buff duration, but the 8 other points are not as valuable. 21/9 looks really appealing. You don't need Bladed Armor, and the extra health from Veteran's Scars is really good for Noc. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 15 2011 06:16 volcryn wrote: last post on pg 5 has my thoughts - on paper I'm really feeling a 9/9/9 +3 on nocturne - its mostly about weighing the 20% buff duration (movespeed is good but not incredibly valuable per point) on those early clears and ganks vs. the increased damage output late game Noc is one of the junglers I wouldn't go 9/9/9+3 on. Deadliness/Lethality is insane for him. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-1-4-0-0-4-1-0-0-1-3-0-3-0-1-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 21 in offense is just too good on nocturne and I can't pass it up. I am putting defense into health since nocturne benefits very little from jungle masteries in the first clear, and none after that. I am skipping out of 20% buff duration because I don't feel it warrants 9 whole points. Movespeed and mana are fairly weak stats on nocturne. | ||
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volcryn
United States149 Posts
On November 15 2011 06:28 TheYango wrote: Noc is one of the junglers I wouldn't go 9/9/9+3 on. Deadliness/Lethality is insane for him. which is why I posted it as a thought and wanted feedback, as im trying to find the alternatives | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On November 15 2011 06:28 Chairman Ray wrote: Ok, I have decided on my nocturne build: http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-1-4-0-0-4-1-0-0-1-3-0-3-0-1-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 21 in offense is just too good on nocturne and I can't pass it up. I am putting defense into health since nocturne benefits very little from jungle masteries in the first clear, and none after that. I am skipping out of 20% buff duration because I don't feel it warrants 9 whole points. Movespeed and mana are fairly weak stats on nocturne. Noc also is a lot less dependant on blue buff than other junglers so I agree you can sacrifice the buff duration. Would it be reasonable, though, to go cut Executioner for Bladed Armour? I could even see something like 15/15/0 on Noc: http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-1-4-0-0-4-1-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-2-4-0-0-1-0-1-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 With the last point in Havoc could go a variety of places (maybe to the summoner spell buff of your second summoner). Edit: I think it'd come down to whether you think the arm pen or the movement speed is better. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Still feel like wealth should be 1 point, it already has 4 points of prerequisite... :/ | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On November 15 2011 07:49 sylverfyre wrote: The only real thing about wealth that I can see as cool is Regrowth+ward (can't NOT open ward as a support and call it a strong opening) Still feel like wealth should be 1 point, it already has 4 points of prerequisite... :/ Really debating on if that is stronger then the support going in defense for mercenary, since they usually go 0/x/100000 the extra gold from there should really outweigh the extra gp10 and starting gold while also giving them a defensive boost to die less Something like http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-3-0-4-3-0-1-0-0-0-0-2-0-3-0-1-3-3-0-0-3-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 15 2011 10:11 STS17 wrote: Really debating on if that is stronger then the support going in defense for mercenary, since they usually go 0/x/100000 the extra gold from there should really outweigh the extra gp10 and starting gold while also giving them a defensive boost to die less The math's been done already. For Mercenary to match the point-efficiency of Greed, you need to be getting a kill/assist every 2.5 minutes, which usually isn't going to happen. You could still go 21-defense, but it's not going to make Mercenary any less terrible as a mastery. | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On November 15 2011 10:15 TheYango wrote: The math's been done already. For Mercenary to match the point-efficiency of Greed, you need to be getting a kill/assist every 2.5 minutes, which usually isn't going to happen. You could still go 21-defense, but it's not going to make Mercenary any less terrible as a mastery. So for a 30 minute game you need 12 assists to break even. I normally end games with ~20 assists or more. What's the problem | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Personally I would take the 1% damage reduction just because it's there and happens to synergize with the rest of the masteries whereas merc doesn't. | ||
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Xirt
Scotland52 Posts
On November 15 2011 10:33 STS17 wrote: So for a 30 minute game you need 12 assists to break even. I normally end games with ~20 assists or more. What's the problem The problem is that you get the gold too late in the game for it to make any difference. If you get good value out of it you were going to win anyway. | ||
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rigwarl
United States540 Posts
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rigwarl
United States540 Posts
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On November 15 2011 11:02 rigwarl wrote: Why are people hating on the new Util? You can get literally the exact same thing you currently can minus 1% runspeed and more mana instead of good hands, which is probably a buff overall. I think the reason is that defence and offence got so much better that utility is relatively much weaker. | ||
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volcryn
United States149 Posts
On November 15 2011 11:02 rigwarl wrote: Why are people hating on the new Util? You can get literally the exact same thing you currently can minus 1% runspeed and more mana instead of good hands, which is probably a buff overall. because power level in both offense and defense skyrocketed in comparison (more signs of the continuing power creep =( | ||
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Gooey
United States944 Posts
On November 15 2011 10:33 STS17 wrote: So for a 30 minute game you need 12 assists to break even. I normally end games with ~20 assists or more. What's the problem Ya, that is what I was thinking. Greed is also a 4 point talent, whereas Mercenary is only 3. So point for point, you gotta take into account that it is only 150 gold every 10 minutes, and not 200. I said earlier that something like 4 hero kills total is totally reasonable for the 12 minute mark as a support for the early game, so 100 gold vs 150 gold early game. The next 10 minutes it's not unreasonable to say you get as many as 6 hero kills, bringing you to around the 10 total mark at 22 minutes. That is an average game for support. You break even with greed here point for point (actually I forgot it's only 24g, so 6 less gold). Overall, you have lost ~50 gold from talents at 22 minutes. I think that 50 gold is a reasonable tradeoff for being able to get the 21 point defensive talent. Supports have serious problems with CC, and a flat 3% hp bonus can only be good. It just seems so useless now to go so far down into utility, so why waste points going all the way into greed, when you can get something along the way to better talents that can almost make up for it? I can't see not getting one of the two, though, because missing out on 250-300 gold is too much. That is 12 minutes of ward vision. To me, the defensive tree just has too much to offer for supports now, and can't convince myself that utility would be better. I think I will have to just wait to play it live to see how everything feels using both builds. | ||
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mrgerry
United States1508 Posts
0/21/9 Swain: Considering running cleanse/heal if they do indeed buff cleanse back to removing ignite/exhaust. Probably go something similar on Ryze since he also tends to be in the middle of fights. http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-3-3-0-4-2-0-1-0-0-0-3-3-0-0-1-1-0-2-1-4-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 21/9/0 Karthus/Annie/Cass: Not much diff between going 21/9/0 or 21/0/9, just depends how reliant on blue I am. 30/0/0 Jax: Cause going 30 pts in a tree sounds badass. http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-4-0-4-4-1-0-1-1-0-0-0-4-3-4-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Don't know why this extra space under my post so im editing this in to not look foolish. | ||
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