|
Junglers, don't worry about the exp mastery so far down in the Utility tree.
Riot plans to buff jungle minion experience. |
On November 15 2011 04:42 NeoIllusions wrote:+1 This 9/21/0 is a lot stronger than the current 9/21/0 I currently run on Irelia.
You'd really skip veteran scars for the health regen and evasion? Man, everyone really hates that. I can see the health regen if you're doing dorans shield instead of philo and you kinda want a bit more, but evasion I'd only use against like full AoE teamcomps. I'm already questioning the -1.5% damage sometimes, it feels so small when I usually prefered to get 0/9/21 on my solo tops because the 4% damage from defense was nice but the rest of the tree was so trash.
|
United States47024 Posts
On November 15 2011 05:13 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 04:42 NeoIllusions wrote:+1 This 9/21/0 is a lot stronger than the current 9/21/0 I currently run on Irelia. You'd really skip veteran scars for the health regen and evasion? Man, everyone really hates that.
Mostly because people haven't seen the math where new Veteran's Scars is the most efficient itemizable stat mastery across all 3 trees by a margin of like 20 gold.
|
I dunno the first thing I did when trying to figure out how good it was took like 10 seconds on run-->calc to figure out compared to the 6 armour//6 mr masteries and it was like twice as good. Although of course it's a level 18 thing like the CDR.
|
not counting the intangible ones.
and you have to spend 4 extra points to get there.
it's still really good though, I dunno why people are obsessing over 3 hp regen, each point in SoS started out at like over 1 HP/5 and grew quite a bit over laning, even on low mana pool characters. 1 hp/5/point isn't nearly good enough. SoS was just good because it was A LOT better than 1hp/5/point.
|
On November 15 2011 05:02 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 04:57 Slayer91 wrote:
Well, doesn't that mean you get 54% arpen?. Woah, that's insanely strong.
And yeah, you're probably right that having to spend so many points to get it is stupid compared to how much good shit you can get now.
Sage might be an interesting stat for supports because they tend to fall behind in levels once the laning phase is over and they stop following their AD to farm. Sage is laughable. :< It could totally use a buff, +40 is like a joke early game. Like someone said earlier, that's not even a mini golem. It's only saving grace (compared to something like Mercenary) is that Sage is tier 4 and only a single point.
Wouldn't the skill make like... 1000x more sense if it scaled ## bonus xp / level?
By designing it to be a flat amount, it inherently gets less useful as the game length continues. So the design philosophy (one would assume) must be to balance the mastery towards a point in the game... But then they give so little xp that it's not relevant to begin with.
If it was OP, that would at least generate more interesting strategic decisions in game - like it being more beneficial for the team to have jungle gank bot (assuming support takes Sage) over perhaps a more advantageous lane.
|
United States47024 Posts
On November 15 2011 05:19 Mogwai wrote:
not counting the intangible ones.
and you have to spend 4 extra points to get there.
it's still really good though, I dunno why people are obsessing over 3 hp regen, each point in SoS started out at like over 1 HP/5 and grew quite a bit over laning, even on low mana pool characters. 1 hp/5/point isn't nearly good enough. SoS was just good because it was A LOT better than 1hp/5/point.
The 4 points to get there aren't bad either. 1.5 hp/level breaks even with the "good" flat stat masteries (e.g. 1st tier offense ones that are worth 42 gold/point) on gold value at level 10. If you consider that when we look at runes, that's about where we expect good per-level runes to break even (e.g. MR vs. MR/level), that means that the HP/level mastery's gold value is where it should be, and is better than the armor/MR masteries.
|
The reason I don't like things like health regen quints and masteries is because generally they are compareable efficiency to the 15 health regen pedant but if you buy that the ONLY options out of it are fucking stupidly efficient items if you count the regen as compareable to armour or magic resist or health. Warmogs, force of nature and philo. If you turned the regen into a gold equivalent amount of say armour we're talking like, 1305 worth of gold on warmogs regen which would be 81 armour.
The reason they are so efficient is that regen is so bad lategame so I feel like minimizing the amount I get from runes/masteries when the regen I get from items becomes basically free on my items I build out of it.
|
Really liking the new mastery pages, can't wait for them to be implemented.
|
Well arcane knowledge got nerfed 5% and the 10% arpen is pretty big. I can see %arpen AD champions being more useful, and %arpen AP champions being less useful, but what do I know. I'm a bronzie at this game.
Wealth and juggernaut seem interesting. You might see a doran's resurgence if people can buy a health pot. Otherwise, most of the masteries seem to be really nerfed. This'll only make the game more boring for people who aren't level 30 yet like me.
|
On November 15 2011 05:30 Firesilver wrote:
Really liking the new mastery pages, can't wait for them to be implemented.
They're so good my graphics card is going to explode. Oh wait it already did. I don't know why my PC still works for firefox and shit though, what a beast.
Also, I always felt like AP carries where way out of whack strong and AD carries kinda felt meh if they aren't super fed, so I like the change. There are tools like randuins and frozen heart and ninja tabi to deal with LW AD carries but you were always shit out of luck with AP carries with void staff. You still are but they'll be a little less brutal I guess.
|
On November 15 2011 05:08 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 05:06 Sabin010 wrote:On November 15 2011 04:47 Slayer91 wrote:On November 15 2011 04:25 Sabin010 wrote:
the crit damage won't stack on the IEs. What are you trying to say? I feel veteran scars to be a poor mastery for late game as 100 health is not that much. Garen won't benefit from attackspeed as much because most of his damage is coming from auto attack, q, e combo. dumping 5 points to get 10% armour pen and 4% attackspeed just seems like it isn't worth it as much as you would think. We have seen what Garen does with out 10% armour pen, and Last whisper is always an option for later in the game if some one has stacked armour.
10% magic pen is also good if you plan on buying sunfire cape. You're just speaking in nonsense terms like "not that much" "just get last whisper if they have lots of armour". This discussion is all about hard numbers because masteries don't make that huge of a difference that they are always noticeable. Also, sunfire cape is pretty horrible on garen. 10% Armour pen stacks additively with LW meaning if there was a reason to get LW theres a reason to get that mastery. Also, its 5 points for 4% cdr and 10% magic pen and they're not exactly the best stats for garen. I don't see people going cdr boots and void staff garen. Your damage is like 80-90% physical damage how you can even argue for the mpen mastery is beyond me. CDR is a bit useful but so if attack speed since if you have really high AD and your Q and E are on CD you get attacks in faster also cdr makes your Q and E come up slightly faster. It's a bit of a toss up. Veteran scars is around 400 gold value lategame which is pretty good for 5 points, the armour and magic resist is 200 gold value for 6 points. I'd normally say it's probably better than 4% crit and 10% crit damage but I'm not totally sure. If you're going atmas and lategame IE you could say the value or crit and crit damage is higher but if you get IE you really want the extra tank. I go Atma's sunfire and a late game IE. Final build usually looks like Sunfire, Atmas, IE, LW/GhostBlade, FoN. Usually you try to end the game before that point, but that is my ideal late game build. If you're going to try to win in the mid game the build is usually something like Brutalizer, Hexdrinker, Ghostblade, Atmas, SunfireCape. You can tell me running Magic pen and CDR is worse, but I'm going to end up running something like 26-3-1 and taking both. The reason I like sunfire is to have more aoe damage while spinning, and its cheaper than Frozen mallet or Warmogs. Why would you want sunfire atmas over warmogs atmas? Whatever damage you get from sunfire is outshined by the AD from warmogs. Health is really good on garen because of courage and if you're getting force of nature then you have to appreciate the regen from warmogs is almost as much. If you get LW you have so much arpen that getting more physical damage is better than the 35 magic damage per second and it scales with the crit on your spin better as well.
With Atma's Warmogs adds 28 AD while the Sunfire adds 35 magic dps and 9 AD. So warmogs adds 39 damage to the spin, while sunfire is adding 12 to the spin and 35 in magic damage per second. Unless im missing something sunfire is giving more damage faster and for less money. Last whisper is the last item purchased and if you're playing Garen you really want to end the game before everybody is lvl 18 and chugging triple pots.
|
Something something about warmogs giving 1000 more HP than sunfire cape, which is the defensive stat Garen scales with considering his W.
|
Something about having a built in cleanse from slows with e, a movement speed boost with q, the fact if some one is going to melee you they're going to eat silence and a lot of dps from e, and a built in regen steroid to keep your health high makes me think the 1000 hp is just over kill on defense. I think Garen is to be played as a burster and not a guy trying to get focused in the middle of everything.
|
United States47024 Posts
Garen:
http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-4-4-0-4-1-0-0-1-0-0-3-0-0-0-2-2-0-4-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
I don't know why you would get the MPen mastery, even if you like the CDR. It'll translate into like 2 extra damage per tick from Sunfire Cape--which is less than the Judgment damage you'll get from the health masteries in defense. You could also probably get Runic Affinity instead of the defense stuff if you really want it, but that's harder to compare.
On November 15 2011 05:50 Sabin010 wrote:
Something about having a built in cleanse from slows with e, a movement speed boost with q, the fact if some one is going to melee you they're going to eat silence and a lot of dps from e, and a built in regen steroid to keep your health high makes me think the 1000 hp is just over kill on defense. I think Garen is to be played as a burster and not a guy trying to get focused in the middle of everything.
Then why are you building Sunfire/Atmas instead of BT stacking? There is more than one way to itemize Garen, but at least be consistent with the way you're doing it. Either you build him raw damage or you build him tanky. But you don't build him tanky and go "he should be a burster!" when you made the conscious decision NOT to build him that way.
|
Personally I would be ok with utility being worse than the other trees, the support characters as a whole are pretty grossly op so it's fine if they take a hit.
|
The Mpen is for his ultimate. If some one stacks 100 mr you're going to need to have them way below 1/4 hp to use R for a kill.
How would you build him?
|
United States47024 Posts
On November 15 2011 05:55 Sabin010 wrote:
The Mpen is for his ultimate. If some one stacks 100 mr you're going to need to have them way below 1/4 hp to use R for a kill.
10% MPen is like a 4% damage increase vs. 100 MR targets. Not hugely compelling on a champ with no other sources of magic damage.
|
On November 15 2011 05:51 TheYango wrote:Garen: http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-4-4-0-4-1-0-0-1-0-0-3-0-0-0-2-2-0-4-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0I don't know why you would get the MPen mastery, even if you like the CDR. It'll translate into like 2 extra damage per tick from Sunfire Cape--which is less than the Judgment damage you'll get from the health masteries in defense. You could also probably get Runic Affinity instead of the defense stuff if you really want it, but that's harder to compare. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 05:50 Sabin010 wrote:
Something about having a built in cleanse from slows with e, a movement speed boost with q, the fact if some one is going to melee you they're going to eat silence and a lot of dps from e, and a built in regen steroid to keep your health high makes me think the 1000 hp is just over kill on defense. I think Garen is to be played as a burster and not a guy trying to get focused in the middle of everything. Then why are you building Sunfire/Atmas instead of BT stacking? There is more than one way to itemize Garen, but at least be consistent with the way you're doing it. Either you build him raw damage or you build him tanky. But you don't build him tanky and go "he should be a burster!" when you made the conscious decision NOT to build him that way.
It depends upon the flow of the game. Alot of times I get hex drinker, brutalizer, dorans blade, ghost blade and boots, but the game is over at that point. I mean sunfire plays more for an later mid game while there is no question warmogs scales for the late late game. If I think we can end it in the mid game the ghost blade and another brutalizer with boots hexdrinker and some dorans blades and start popping elixers.
|
You're seriously going to spend 5 mastery points just for your ult? Your ult isn't even the main source of your damage.
|
its really only one point because he benefits greatly from cdr as he can just spam everything when its off cd.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
