• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:35
CEST 19:35
KST 02:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview17Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7
Community News
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event13Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster12Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Hybrid setting keep reverting. HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster HSC 27 players & groups
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Unit and Spell Similarities NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL19] Grand Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
NBA General Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1283 users

[Discussion] Season 2 Masteries - Page 6

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 15 Next All
Junglers, don't worry about the exp mastery so far down in the Utility tree.
Riot plans to buff jungle minion experience.
Woony
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany6657 Posts
November 14 2011 18:13 GMT
#101
On November 14 2011 19:26 TheYango wrote:
Offense tree is deceptively stronger than it looks. If you math out the gold value on the boring flat-stat masteries, you find that Offense is way stronger than their Defense counterparts (Brute Force and Alacrity are worth 42 gold/point, Deadliness is worth 50 gold/point, compared to Resistance/Hardiness which are 34 gold/point, Durability, which is 4 gold per point per level--though interestingly Veteran's Scars is worth a very respectable 78 gold). The un-itemizable perks may be comparable (% ArPen, % Crit Dmg, and Executioner vs. CC redux, Initiator, % dmg redux), but in terms of the chaff you have to put points in to get there, Offense is stronger.


Didn't they state they balanced all the masteries out gold wise with the remake?
billy5000
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 18:18:34
November 14 2011 18:16 GMT
#102
pretty sure wealth is directed to supports..with 2 points in wealth, you could open a charm, 4 wards, and a pot

although i would probably just save it so i can get a gp5 item faster
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand. Vonnegut
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 14 2011 18:24 GMT
#103
On November 15 2011 03:13 Woony wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2011 19:26 TheYango wrote:
Offense tree is deceptively stronger than it looks. If you math out the gold value on the boring flat-stat masteries, you find that Offense is way stronger than their Defense counterparts (Brute Force and Alacrity are worth 42 gold/point, Deadliness is worth 50 gold/point, compared to Resistance/Hardiness which are 34 gold/point, Durability, which is 4 gold per point per level--though interestingly Veteran's Scars is worth a very respectable 78 gold). The un-itemizable perks may be comparable (% ArPen, % Crit Dmg, and Executioner vs. CC redux, Initiator, % dmg redux), but in terms of the chaff you have to put points in to get there, Offense is stronger.


Didn't they state they balanced all the masteries out gold wise with the remake?

they did state that, but it's a lie. utility tree got dumped on, simple gold analysis has most of Utility at undervalued compared to offensive and defensive.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Woony
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany6657 Posts
November 14 2011 18:38 GMT
#104
Ultility is pretty trash for anyone except supports now. Need to buff greed/swiftness and probably buff/remake sage and wealth.

I mean just compare 21/0/9 vs. 9/0/21 for AP carries

~ 200 mana @ 18
0,5% movementspeed
3% spellvamp
5% EXP
6% CDR
15% Summoner CDR

VS

1,5% damage
18 AP @ 18
5% AP (!!!!)
6% damage @ targets below 40%
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
November 14 2011 18:52 GMT
#105
22-7-1 on Garen looks legit.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-0-4-1-4-0-1-3-1-0-0-3-0-1-0-1-3-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 14 2011 18:56 GMT
#106
...

...

...

tower damage on Garen..?

1.5% damage on anyone..?

MPEN over ARPEN... ON GAREN!?

why are people so bad at just thinking about their specs in this game.....?
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 19:00:59
November 14 2011 18:58 GMT
#107
Well 1.5% damage is probably better than crit and crit damage on garen since so much of your damage is your spin and ultimate. I'd get something like this; http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-4-4-0-0-1-1-3-0-0-0-3-0-1-0-1-3-0-4-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

I think mpen mastery combines well with executioner to make sure those ultimates finish the target when you need them to.
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
November 14 2011 18:59 GMT
#108
its for the ultimate bro. and auto q auto thats a bonus 30 damage to the tower. do that 3 times and thats 90 bonus damage plus the 1.5% its like 91 damage bro.
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
November 14 2011 18:59 GMT
#109
On November 15 2011 03:58 Slayer91 wrote:
Well 1.5% damage is probably better than crit and crit damage on garen since so much of your damage is your spin and ultimate. I'd get something like this; http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-4-4-0-0-1-1-3-0-0-0-3-0-1-0-1-3-0-4-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0


you know your spin crits right?
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 19:04:02
November 14 2011 19:02 GMT
#110
I guess. Only the bonus damage part though, you can just replace the 4% cdr and 10% mpen for the 4% crit and 10% crit damage if you want. No big deal.

Also health regen is debateable, kinda feel like new veteran scars is good lategame, never really feel like garens needs the sustain.
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
November 14 2011 19:04 GMT
#111
how about a 26-3-1

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-4-4-0-4-1-1-3-1-0-0-3-0-1-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 14 2011 19:06 GMT
#112
So you'd take Crit for Garen's E but not the ArPen? Really?
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 14 2011 19:10 GMT
#113
I still for the life of me can't figure out why Sunder is a tier 5 mastery now.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 19:15:32
November 14 2011 19:11 GMT
#114
Neo I changed it to run the arpen 10%, but early game the flat 6 is going to be better than 10% until they reach 60+ armour.

If you get Brutalizer ghostblade and another brutalizer you have a flat 41 penetration before the 10%. even if the guy is at 100 armour you're only shredding an additional 6 armour from the mastery.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 14 2011 19:12 GMT
#115
On November 15 2011 02:13 EquilasH wrote:
You mean 160 seconds right?

Edit: I do agree with you btw, especially since Greed is also pretty bad when these changes come tbh.


You're right, I was thinking gp5 when it's gp10. That's significantly less bad, but it's still bad. I'd much rather have Honor Guard or Enlightment hands down.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 19:18:09
November 14 2011 19:15 GMT
#116
On November 15 2011 04:11 Sabin010 wrote:
Neo I changed it to run the arpen 10%, but early game the flat 6 is going to be better than 10% until they reach 60+ armour.


You realize they stack right? Getting flat armour pen doesn't mean the 10% is useless. The crit works only on the bonus damage while the armour pen works on both and is unquestionably better.

On November 15 2011 04:11 Sabin010 wrote:
Neo I changed it to run the arpen 10%, but early game the flat 6 is going to be better than 10% until they reach 60+ armour.

If you get Brutalizer ghostblade and another brutalizer you have a flat 41 penetration before the 10%. even if the guy is at 100 armour you're only shredding an additional 6 armour from the mastery.


Yeah. And if you get 5 infinity edges that crit damage looking real good! Of course, 100 armour being the level of AD carry with wriggles, surely going to be nobody tankier than that in a top lane!
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3889 Posts
November 14 2011 19:20 GMT
#117
On November 15 2011 02:59 volcryn wrote:
So most of my junglers I am pretty happy with overall on paper - of course it is going to take some testing. The one that seems to really bother me though is nocturne. I'm running a 16/3/11 build on live that I am really happy with - but there seems to be so many strong picks early in the new mastery trees , combined with what I feel is a weak mid - tier offense (havoc, lethality, deadliness, vampirism) in the case of his jungle. Much of what I went into offense for is now lower in the tree except flat armor pen, which is exchanged for flat 10%

First 9 points in offense benefit his jungle and transition into mid/late
First 9 in defense are incredibly strong for early jungle clears + smite mastery
First 9 in utility provide movespeed + buff duration

are any of these worth giving up to run a 21/x/x or x/21/x

is there any value in considering a 9/9/9 +3?

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-1-4-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-2-0-2-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-3-0-0-4-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0



9-12-9 Is something I want to try on my junglers, get the armor pen, get the defensive stats + the DBC, and get the runic in utility but idk, going down to 21 is just really powerful since that final slot is so good and things get pretty good on the way down.
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 19:30:04
November 14 2011 19:25 GMT
#118
the crit damage won't stack on the IEs. What are you trying to say? I feel veteran scars to be a poor mastery for late game as 100 health is not that much. Garen won't benefit from attackspeed as much because most of his damage is coming from auto attack, q, e combo. dumping 5 points to get 10% armour pen and 4% attackspeed just seems like it isn't worth it as much as you would think. We have seen what Garen does with out 10% armour pen, and Last whisper is always an option for later in the game if some one has stacked armour.

10% magic pen is also good if you plan on buying sunfire cape.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
November 14 2011 19:27 GMT
#119
Except pretty much everyone worth a damn shows up to lane with 60-70+ armor against Garen at level 1, and it only goes up from there.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 14 2011 19:34 GMT
#120
On November 15 2011 04:25 Sabin010 wrote:
the crit damage won't stack on the IEs. What are you trying to say? I feel veteran scars to be a poor mastery for late game as 100 health is not that much. Garen won't benefit from attackspeed as much because most of his damage is coming from auto attack, q, e combo. dumping 5 points to get 10% armour pen and 4% attackspeed just seems like it isn't worth it as much as you would think. We have seen what Garen does with out 10% armour pen, and Last whisper is always an option for later in the game if some one has stacked armour.

10% magic pen is also good if you plan on buying sunfire cape.


You're really, really getting points for all the wrong reasons...
Crit Chance because you can crit during spin? Magic Pen for Ulti and Sunfire Cape?
How is either of those better than ArPen on a bruiser? AS does seems worthless on Garen but if it's a prereq to 10% ArPen, it's suddenly more worth it than the Crit stats.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CSO Cup
16:00
81
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeague: CN vs PTB
Freeedom12
Liquipedia
HomeStory Cup
11:00
XXVII: Day 2
TaKeTV 3795
ComeBackTV 957
IndyStarCraft 339
CranKy Ducklings309
3DClanTV 135
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 339
Hui .293
CosmosSc2 127
ProTech64
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22971
Rain 2967
Shuttle 1095
Bisu 920
Flash 772
actioN 228
firebathero 218
Hyuk 218
Soma 205
Rush 54
[ Show more ]
sas.Sziky 54
soO 28
Backho 27
TY 26
Rock 25
GoRush 21
zelot 16
HiyA 14
Yoon 14
Movie 9
Dota 2
Gorgc6966
League of Legends
Dendi1401
Counter-Strike
fl0m1289
pashabiceps566
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor658
Other Games
Stewie2K237
KnowMe223
Fuzer 173
Trikslyr66
QueenE41
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream15190
Other Games
EGCTV1286
gamesdonequick986
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 45
• iHatsuTV 1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 29
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV433
• Ler88
League of Legends
• Nemesis5144
• Jankos1821
Other Games
• Shiphtur347
• imaqtpie291
Upcoming Events
BSL: ProLeague
25m
Hawk vs Dewalt
SOOP
15h 25m
SHIN vs ByuN
HomeStory Cup
18h 25m
BSL: ProLeague
1d
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV European League
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
HSC XXVII
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.