EPTALCS (picked in first 2 games, start around 15:00): http://www.twitch.tv/10ktournaments/b/475682158
[Champion] Olaf - Page 15
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HughMyron
297 Posts
ALCS (picked in first 2 games, start around 15:00): http://www.twitch.tv/10ktournaments/b/475682158 | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On November 05 2013 06:12 cLutZ wrote: Why does Nasus need to be in melle range of a squishy to be relevant? He doesn't. Gee, I dunno, maybe to do anything else than reduce people's armour for his pals or Whither somebody (notice how I mentioned a Cleanse)? You'd see Nasus support if he only needed to drop Spirit Fire and Whither to be relevant, without having to deal any damage. | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
I mean gaining something but losing something at the same time. I don't say it's necessary bad to design a ulti like this but in this case I'm strictly against it. On November 05 2013 04:05 Alaric wrote: Difference isn't that big, and the uptime is around the same assuming you auto (especially as you get CDR). There's pretty much no difference at higher levels now, especially if you've got AD on one item (or your ult on), but it's nerfed in lane, which was the point: less free "walk up to you, E and walk away", more interaction. Well I'd be more ok with it if it was flat damage no % gain. That way it would both reward active play as auto reduces it's CD and still be a viable tactic to rush lvl 5 reckless to abuse your opponent. Early -100 true damage is a nerf too much. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On November 06 2013 02:47 cLutZ wrote: Olaf to be Nasus tanky, has to have more tank items than Nasus. To do Nasus Damage (Nasus is mostly AOE in teamfights though), he needs damage items. But, I am going to experiment with him as a Jax counter, because thats what he historically was. And since he is a good splitpusher, and now Jax's build the fairly niche TF>BotRK whiche is mostly only good for splitpush and cleanup you get a chance to use Olaf's kit to the fullest. This doesn't make any sense. Nasus gets HP when his ult is active but Olaf get free resists on his ults passive. Nasus can't stick to any carry who brought cleanse while Olaf can at least pick up his ax and toss it again. Its hard to compare their damage since Olaf can't be peeled while Nasus can be. Nasus reduces armor while Olaf does True damage. Nasus does greater AoE damage but Olaf is going to be a better anti-carry until Nasus can farm up his Q. They are very similar in that they both rely on Ghost instead of Flash which looks like its getting a buff (more sprint speed early then trails off to normal ghost speed and shorter cool down) so good news for both of them. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On November 06 2013 05:17 Ghost-z wrote: This doesn't make any sense. Nasus gets HP when his ult is active but Olaf get free resists on his ults passive. Nasus can't stick to any carry who brought cleanse while Olaf can at least pick up his ax and toss it again. Its hard to compare their damage since Olaf can't be peeled while Nasus can be. Nasus reduces armor while Olaf does True damage. Nasus does greater AoE damage but Olaf is going to be a better anti-carry until Nasus can farm up his Q. They are very similar in that they both rely on Ghost instead of Flash which looks like its getting a buff (more sprint speed early then trails off to normal ghost speed and shorter cool down) so good news for both of them. what would really help olaf would be a guardians horn type item in summoners rift.. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I didn't know what to start so I just went boots+2 pots+ward, which wasn't enough sustain to deal with his constant auto harass and Q spam (he did his best to push the wave while I avoided fighting him at level 1-2 because dshield > boots, and after then his ability to shove is dumb as fuck as soon as he gets E while I'll just run oom if I use Undertow). I died because I was dumb and refused to miss 1.5-2 creep waves instead (since I was permanently shoved under tower), but I farmed up a negatron so I just killed him as soon as I went back to lane, burning my ignite. After that Vlad wasn't able to 1v1 me anymore most of the time (although one time Sejuani ganked, I expected it with the obvious and terrible bait but two of my minions blocked my pathing for ~half my ult's worth and I died, zzz pathing). So I wasn't exactly in danger. It was stupidly dumb how with just revolver (~70 AP total) he was able to heal from 30->100 in a single creep wave however, while Undertow was on coldown, and it also meant I had to pretty much constantly fight him or pressure an all-in to prevent him from doing his trade -> heal to full on a few minions -> repeat. Can't dive him w/o ignite or when pool is up so I can't push (he won't let me attack the tower and clears fast anyway), and to deal damage to him I have to keep him permaslowed and abuse E, which forces me to chase him off the wave for some time (eg. distance), making me lose farm (and exp, although he misses some too) every time. I have to pick up the axe then run back to farm some because if I let Undertow on cooldown he'll just follow me and sustain back to almost full in the meantime. TL;DR: - Which opener against Vlad? Is dshield worth it since he's (supposedly) bad at harassing early game? - Lifesteal or MR quints? Having some sustain without burning W isn't that bad, but reducing his damage would make me win trades harder with E. - Have to significantly wound him every trade or it won't stick. Can't leave Undertow on cd or it's his cue for free sustain. Is there another way to trade with him than hit Q -> chase with autos and Es, far from the wave (eg. miss farm but he can't sustain as much), and turn back when exposed to ganks/close to his tower, making sure to pick up the axe on the way? I don't mean it as a QQ post, dude was really bad and after I completed Cowl I trucked him, plus I know it's supposed to be a rather favourable match-up for Olaf. But Vlad's mindless gameplay really annoys me so I'm trying to find if there are better ways for me to deal with him thn what I did, because albeit I won't start boots the next time my opponent'll prob have armour runes and won't be as bad. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Against Vlad I would max Q: At ranks 1-2 undertow has a shorter cooldown than transfusion even if you don't pick it up but try to avoid trading Qs with vlad because you will fall behind and spend mana. When he Qs a minion then hit him with undertow. Undertow has no damage penalty for going through minions and this will help push vlad under tower early which I think you should do as long as you know where the enemy jungler is. Once you have enough gold for negatron cloak (wards and boots also help) shove the wave and base. From rank 3 and beyond his Q has a shorter cooldown so I wouldn't trade with it without going in, picking up your ax and trying to force him to pool. Anytime you can hit him with E you'll be ahead since Olaf's E is always going to be a better health trade than Vlads E. At level 9 your Q still has a shorter cooldown as long as you pick it up. If you have a negatron and boots its easy to go all-in and force him to pool. Back off when he pools then rinse/repeat. Save your ult for when his pool is on cooldown because you want to maximize your ults damage. I don't have a lot of experience in this specific matchup but that's how I would play it. I'm not rich when it comes to runes. I run Armor reds, Armor yellows, Scaling MR blues, and Move speed quints on Olaf. But a more ideal rune page would probably have AD reds and Flat MR blues in this matchup. I wouldn't run life steal quints personally. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
The opener was not very good though. I strongly recommend either flask + 3 pot for axe spam, or if you don't want to spam axes then doran shield pot is best. All vlad wants to do early game is auto you in between Qs. Dshield helps tremendously against that. Don't forget to take block mastery. Here's how I trade with vlad: 1. pretend like i'm scared until I land a long-range Q. 2. run straight at his face. 3. auto + E the shit out of him. 4. pick up axe, hit him again immediately. 5. repeat #2 - 4 until vlad runs under tower. 6. retreat through top lane bushes so vlad can't Q me all the way back to the minions. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Still, the Ult seems very non-intuitive, and if I miss axes (out of the jungle or in teamfights) I feel pretty marginalized. Its like the entire kit is built on chaining axes, but they seemed to intentionally de-emphasize the axe in the rework in favor of autos. I don't see how this iteration is going to work very well unless his steroids are as ridiculous as they are right now. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I'm trying too hard to be a juggernaut in my games I feel. Starting sunfire cape makes you very strong (Tabi+Sunfire still beats most auto-attackers and a bunch of pure physical damage dealers), however I know I'll also need SV at some point for CDR+MR, and if they have armour-shredding abilities I'll probably have to build some more armour following up. What happens is that I tend to be able to tank at least two people, but starting with 3 I die before I can kill anyone (even a squishy) so I rely a bunch on my team to be able to win the 4v2-3 (+AoE) while I do my thing of zoning half the enemy team. It was obvious from the changes that 0 offensive items Olaf was weaker than before, but it really makes itself felt. I still have some trouble farming while getting used to his trading and such (and missing a bunch of farm when I try to last hit with level 1 Q) so I get less gold than I could, but I find it hard to reach a core of cowl+sunfire (or warden's+belt if one's choice is Randuin's)+at least half-completed offensive item in a timely fashion. On the other hand a bunch of champions are supposed to be able to survivre w/o MR if they build enough HP (like Sunfire) early on, so maybe I could delay Cowl or even the negatron. It could come from my positioning making them all specificlly focus me though. Also since going Sunfire I guess I could just build Sunfire+Cutlass (Tiamat not needed because of the sunfire passive) and then see if I can complete BotRK or need to get some MR beforehand. It would delay my CDR by a lot, though... | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
I dove a corki with my full build while he had equal gold with a BT and Botrk for life steal. His team rarely peeled for him and I couldn't 1v1 him completely without getting help or him just focusing other people. Is it the case that I need a damage item because Ghostblade would be my first option or more likely is it just the fact that he didn't try to kite and I took full armor shred and true damage from Corki? On another note has anyone tried Ghostblade in lane Olaf then tanky? It seems like his perfect item. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On February 19 2014 07:42 BlasiuS wrote: How do I deal with Yasuo toplane? Is there any conceivable way of beating him, or do I have to hug tower and hope to only be 2 levels behind him mid-game instead of 3? break shield with axe and e him to death i though tthat was a matchup that was considred unwinnable for yasuo? | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On February 20 2014 00:45 arb wrote: break shield with axe and e him to death i though tthat was a matchup that was considred unwinnable for yasuo? That only works if you max E first...which means your axes run you oom and don't do any damage. Also if he's in a minion wave he can E away after you land an axe. There's also W if you try to land long-range axes His Q outranges everything except your super-costly axes, so he can infinitely harass you for free unless you all-in. I've been sort of able to catch up once I build armor, but the pre-6 is horrendous. | ||
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aurawashere
Canada454 Posts
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On February 20 2014 04:50 BlasiuS wrote: That only works if you max E first...which means your axes run you oom and don't do any damage. Also if he's in a minion wave he can E away after you land an axe. There's also W if you try to land long-range axes His Q outranges everything except your super-costly axes, so he can infinitely harass you for free unless you all-in. I've been sort of able to catch up once I build armor, but the pre-6 is horrendous. That sounds fairly normal for Olaf. The reason why you max E in lane is that you usually cannot sustain trades mana wise if you go for a Q max. Personally I've only played this matchup once and it did not seem very complicated. I stayed fairly defensive (coupled with him pushing the wave constantly by trying to build E stacks) whenever he tried to E into me I'd E right back and try to force him into a fight if the minions were not completely against me. At level 4 he tried to go for an all in trusting in his shield and a slight exp advantadge (he went in right as he leveled while I still had 2 minions to go). I threw an axe into his face and ran for it and he stepped about 3 steps too far behind my minion line. At that point I turned around used ignite and ghost to stick to him and just powered him down with q+w+2Es throughout the fight. Flash vs. Ghost in toplane (which should happen at least I have yet to see a Yasuo with ghost) should make it easy for you to stick to him. As long as you start with a Dorans shield (and Armor Seals obviously) you should be able to outlast his harass until level 4 or 5. The only thing hard about him is his lack of ressources, so you will have to play fairly safe, but there should be no reason to hug your turret either. Olaf is one of the masters of low health trades and at that level he should not be able to one shot you by any means (unless you have been eating all the harass he can dish out without trading any back). Obviously like any top lane matchup jungler interference can make it a pain, but Olaf is better suited than most since his Ult allows him to escape some of the obvious yasuo+jungle combinations (gragas and Vi seem to be the most obnoxious). As long as you do not fall behind more than a level of xp and maybe 15 minions your better midgame scaling and armor itemization should make this matchup easy for you. | ||
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Defuze
Switzerland2 Posts
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