|
Wriggles gives you 5 gold/10 worth of wards.
dblades are fantastic early game especially if you need the health to survive bursts in ganks, e.g vs mordekaizer or brand.
No need for dblades unless you have something in mind to use them though.
Gunblade is bad on jungle lee sin since its extremely cost inefficient until you finish the gunblade. Spell vamp, lifesteal and ap are all pretty much useless on him. (junglers aren\t tanky and farmed enough to be able to make high lifesteal useful).
Better to go warmogs and build to atmas to let you be tanky enough to go for squishies all the time making your less AD count for more.
Wriggles+Hog+Avarice is good if you get fed early but don't want to get a fast blood thirster on him. Brutalizer adds a lot to your damage and you can convert to a ghostblade later to increase your build/ (Real tricky to keep passive rolling with ghostblade active, but it still gives goodish stats).
Not sold on avarice yet, need to test it more. Might be worth just skipping it and going brultaizer+hog-->phage hex drinker mallet atmas and stuff.
|
On September 02 2011 01:35 Slayer91 wrote:
Spell vamp, lifesteal and ap are all pretty much useless on him. (junglers aren\t tanky and farmed enough to be able to make high lifesteal useful).
Better to go warmogs and build to atmas to let you be tanky enough to go for squishies all the time making your less AD count for more.
Spell vamp, lifesteal, and ap are all ridiculously good on Lee Sin, l0l. His W already grants 25% lifesteal/spell vamp, and the extra from Gunblade makes him gain an unbelievable amount of health from using skills like his E. Imagine having your W+W active, and using your E right in the middle of a bunch of enemies. 300 damage to at least 4 enemy heroes, 50% total spell vamp, that's a heal for 600 right there..... Plus you heal off the magic damage from Bilgewater Cutlass.
The AP is very much an "extra" that comes with the item, but the ratio on his shield is so nice that LS uses it well anyway. Also, his AD ratios are amazing, which further helps him scale off the stats that Gunblade provides.
I'm not saying that gunblade es #1 jungle item, I'm saying that it's definitely viable to build if you get a few kills and are ahead of the enemy team.
Warmogs out of the jungle is in the same category as gunblade - don't get it unless you got a few kills and are ahead, since you won't have enough farm to do it fast enough in an even game. Frozen Mallet is better in that situation imo.
|
fyi aoe spells vamp for 2/3rds less so if you hit 4 with a 400 damage E and ww up that's 200 hp
|
Pure theorycrafting nonsense. Good luck finding 4 people with no magic resist, when if you use W+W and E you are already almost out of energy and just used your escape, you will have like 2000 health and will be instantly bursted down anyway. If you are building squishy you pick people off or stay back, in each case you don't take too much damage and don't need the lifesteal. You still get 1 combo'd by their AP carry.
Warmogs is cheaper than frozen mallet, and gives more health, and gives regen which is highly underrated since it lets you absorb pokes well.
From my experience I am a much better asset to the team by building warmogs and less attack damage on lee sin as it allows me to get in the fight and prevent their carries from dealing damage to mine. If you are squishy you rely on picking someone off but your time in the fight is much lower and you're not the best champion for 1 comboing somebody anyway.
Lifesteal is good on tanky people. Thats why people build tanky on warwick. You stay in the fight heal tons and have enough resists and health that they can't focus you easily, but if they leave only say a not overfarmed AD carry to hit you you won't end up dying. AD lee sin is a fast 1 combo and W out, you won't be able to use your W to get the lifesteal and certainly won't be staying in the fight long enough to lifesteal unless you are hiting their tanks/bruisers.
The only reason to get frozen mallet is if you already builded a phage and want a giants belt and you just complete it to convert the slot. It's not very cost efficient since lee sin doesn't need the slow insanely badly. I'm beginning to question getting stuff like phage and brutalizer before warmogs unless there's another very tanky guy who I can let go in first.
|
yeah but you spellvamp from Q and R too. A QRQ combo gives insane amount of life back.
|
The problem is finding a good situation where you are low health but didn't die and can sucessfully QRQ someone note worthy. I don't see how to plan to stay alive at half health in melee range to a squishy long enough to QRQ them as a 2k health level 16 jungler when everyone else is level 18.
Seems like akali is much better suited to the style of play of waiting and going in on squishies when they used their CDs. Lee sin has a tougher time getting jumps on people without letting people damage him. Normally you want to soak damage for your team and just generally be bruiser who can get out of anything but using W strictly as an escape skill.
In a typical scenario which both teams bruisers go for squishies say someone initiates and nocturne counter ults lee sin wins this type of fight because He W's away and helps finish their bruisers while you are safely out of harm and their team is somewhat out of position.
|
Gunblade is fine and dandy if you got massively fed, have no immediate threats, and just want to end the game right there. Again, just because an item path makes sense once every 12 full moons doesn't mean it's the awesomesauce. It doesn't fit your role as jungle sin, and you're just asking to get insta-bursted in a teamfight.
|
yeah lets be honest. Most of the times I finish longer games with wriggles, mercs, warmog/mallet, negatron, chainmail. I assume I'am not the only one. But after upgrading negatron and chainmail, then the most valuable item to aim for would be gunblade in 70% of the time while the other 30% would be LW/another tank item.
Btw talking about the "bruisers aim for squishies"-thing: This is valuable information from slayer91. Jumping with W to your carry(ies) and help them killing the enemy assassin or tank/bruiser/fighter/what ever its called is often a good thing, since both E and R are very suited for this.
|
treeeskimo went from 2000 to 2200 or something like that building gunblade lee sin
it's more of an assassin build... it's fine I think although I usually go tank. Lee Sin is pretty op, so as far as I can tell you can build him to provide any type of threat you want and if you play well it'll work.
|
It's fine if you're going solo lane, but already investing so much into wriggles for lifesteal and being underfarmed/leveled as a jungler I think its totally unreasonable.
You really want lifesteal on lee sin if you are laning anyway unless you're rushing warmogs for regen, but flat hp is bad for laning in general.
|
I really do prefer to build him tanky. Q scaling with % missing health on the enemy means you become more dangerous the longer they're alive, so you need to survive to that point. He's not as bursty as my main love Akali, but he's way more mobile.
Flat AD on him is nice, but getting Atma's and building tougher is just waaay too good for him in my mind.
|
United States47024 Posts
On September 02 2011 03:58 UniversalSnip wrote:
treeeskimo went from 2000 to 2200 or something like that building gunblade lee sin
it's more of an assassin build... it's fine I think although I usually go tank. Lee Sin is pretty op, so as far as I can tell you can build him to provide any type of threat you want and if you play well it'll work.
Jungling, or laning? On lane Lee Sin, Gunblade is a lot more defensible given how much faster and more reliably you get farm.
One of the main things I dislike about Gunblade is that you don't get a huge chunk of it's value till you finish it. The recipe itself is giving you 35 AP, 25 AD, 5% Lifesteal, and 10% Spellvamp for 600 gold. That's a RIDICULOUS value, but unless you get to finish Gunblade, you don't benefit from that--Revolver and Cutlass are really mediocre AP/AD items by themselves. On a jungler, you're not guaranteed to see the 6400 needed for Wriggles + Mercs + Gunblade in a reasonable amount of time unless you get really fed. If you're fighting midgame fights with just the Gunblade components, you're really not getting your money's worth at all. As such it's much more reliable for you to plan around items that are cost-effective at a lower price point.
|
yeah I just finished a very long game with him starting from the jungle. They had a double ap and I farmed a warmog and double negatron and then chainmail. I never even finished atmas but they could still not ignore me. The utility and damage he does with just wriggles+redbuff is enough if your bound to soak up alot of damage.
|
On September 02 2011 08:44 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 03:58 UniversalSnip wrote:
treeeskimo went from 2000 to 2200 or something like that building gunblade lee sin
it's more of an assassin build... it's fine I think although I usually go tank. Lee Sin is pretty op, so as far as I can tell you can build him to provide any type of threat you want and if you play well it'll work. Jungling, or laning? On lane Lee Sin, Gunblade is a lot more defensible given how much faster and more reliably you get farm.
he was jungling
|
United States47024 Posts
On September 02 2011 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 08:44 TheYango wrote:On September 02 2011 03:58 UniversalSnip wrote:
treeeskimo went from 2000 to 2200 or something like that building gunblade lee sin
it's more of an assassin build... it's fine I think although I usually go tank. Lee Sin is pretty op, so as far as I can tell you can build him to provide any type of threat you want and if you play well it'll work. Jungling, or laning? On lane Lee Sin, Gunblade is a lot more defensible given how much faster and more reliably you get farm. he was jungling
I'm curious how he was getting enough farm for it without abnormally successful ganks, or taking significant amounts of farm that would have been better on his laners.
At IEM, Saint and TOO were finishing entire games with something like Wriggles+Mercs+2DBlade+Hexdrinker or Wriggles+Mercs+Mallet+Hexdrinker parts--if they'd gotten Gunblade instead of the other items after Wriggles+Mercs, they would barely have finished it at the end of a won game. How can you justify Gunblade if you're not guaranteed to even finish it, let alone have it for meaningful fights?
|
On September 02 2011 09:24 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On September 02 2011 08:44 TheYango wrote:On September 02 2011 03:58 UniversalSnip wrote:
treeeskimo went from 2000 to 2200 or something like that building gunblade lee sin
it's more of an assassin build... it's fine I think although I usually go tank. Lee Sin is pretty op, so as far as I can tell you can build him to provide any type of threat you want and if you play well it'll work. Jungling, or laning? On lane Lee Sin, Gunblade is a lot more defensible given how much faster and more reliably you get farm. he was jungling I'm curious how he was getting enough farm for it without abnormally successful ganks, or taking significant amounts of farm that would have been better on his laners. At IEM, Saint and TOO were finishing entire games with something like Wriggles+Mercs+2DBlade+Hexdrinker or Wriggles+Mercs+Mallet+Hexdrinker parts--if they'd gotten Gunblade instead of the other items after Wriggles+Mercs, they would barely have finished it at the end of a won game. How can you justify Gunblade if you're not guaranteed to even finish it, let alone have it for meaningful fights?
I dunno, ask him. He does post here.
|
|
|
Definitely a hard champion for the first or second time, I just tried him out yesterday.
Last night I saw a completely tank Lee sin with all the tank items and he completely demolished us lol... what do you think about this?
|
I've bought Lee Sin a while ago but played him a little more recently.
I've had quite good success with a little more tanky build in the beginning, going towards AD/Crit/Lifeleech later.
Usually I start with Doran's Shield because it always helps me to stay in lane longer. Maybe I should try Regrowth Pendant though, since it would play better into my item build.
Next item I get is Mercury's Threads.
Then I'm building towards Warmog's Armor (hence the Rewgroth Pendant).
After I finish Warmog's I get Brutalizer.
Depending on the game I then get Bloodthirster/Atma's Impaler or build Brutalizer into Yoomu's Ghostblade.
If I got Bloodthirster/Atma's Impaler, I get Yoomu's Ghostblade next.
Usually the game is over by then, if not I just get any AD item I feel like e.g. Inifinty Edge or Black Cleaver.
Yesterday I had a game where I was 0/0/0 for a long time (around 15 minute mark, had to go solo top against Ryze and someone else I can't recall right now) and still ended the game with 13/1/18 using the above items.
For skills I usually focus on Sonic Wave and try to keep Safeguard and Tempest on equal levels whenever I can't put points in Sonic Wave or Ulti.
|
I'm starting to both love and hate Lee Sin, depending on what side he's on :D
Part of me screams "how is it fair that someone that mobile with that much burst can be so tanky?!". Then I lol and watch as he annihilates a 2v1.
He's very good, I might buy him. I need an AD carry as well as a tanky-DPS to round out my character group, and Lee Sin seems to fit quite well. Him or Irelia, I haven't quite yet chosen. Haven't had a chance to play Irelia, though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
