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On February 25 2012 00:28 Mogwai wrote:
in lane EQWEER R > E > W > Q
in jungle QEWEER R > E > W >Q (red buff with boots opening for level 2 gank) or WQEEER R > E > W > Q (vamp scepter, rush wriggle's opening)
actually that makes a lot more sense than what I was doing. Going back and looking at Q it's def a 1 point wonder, since its level scaling consists only of an extra 15 dmg (so 45 extra dmg per level, assuming you hit all 3, which doesn't always happen) per activated hit. W, on the other hand gains cdr per level as well as bonus aspeed.
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Why do you max E over W? To enhance your ganks with the %slow scaling, and augment your chances of a second E available (in case of a flash, for example) thanks to W and E's reduced CD per level?
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you want to be bursty on ganks and E gives the highest upfront damage, and has slow % and CD scaling with each level. it's your best PvP skill and the CD going down makes a huge difference with your W active.
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Well, i better get updating. OP is outdated
Aaand done for now.
Its not perfect, but it should give a basic guideline.
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E is really helpful in ganking when jungling, but W can help jungle faster... I say depends on laning or jungling.
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I've really been liking opening Dblade on jungle xin. Going 21/9/0 with damage quints/ armor yellows/ mres lvl blues/ 3 arm pen reds and 6 atk speed reds. You're at full HP at every point in the jungle and that 10 damage and 100 hp to take a tower hit is baller for early ganks.
As per usual I do a lot more ganking than jungling with xin so I've been toying around with not even getting a wriggles. I haven't decided if that's retarded yet, but really you're already staying at full hp, the only stat you need is the damage which is meh and the razer proc.... I dunno I clear camps quick without it.
Before I used to just copy Dun1007's build but they removed SOTD so I've modified it slightly.
Dblade>boots>HoG>dagger> Phage? Giants belt? > then pick up whatever you need. Tankyness finish Randuins/Frozen Mallet/Negatron or an offencive option like just a plain old zeal / Atma / Black Cleaver if you're owning / Triforce is amazing on xin but expensive so usually can't get it.
Mogwai what you say?
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On March 19 2012 14:56 Ruken wrote:
I've really been liking opening Dblade on jungle xin. Going 21/9/0 with damage quints/ armor yellows/ mres lvl blues/ 3 arm pen reds and 6 atk speed reds. You're at full HP at every point in the jungle and that 10 damage and 100 hp to take a tower hit is baller for early ganks.
As per usual I do a lot more ganking than jungling with xin so I've been toying around with not even getting a wriggles. I haven't decided if that's retarded yet, but really you're already staying at full hp, the only stat you need is the damage which is meh and the razer proc.... I dunno I clear camps quick without it.
Before I used to just copy Dun1007's build but they removed SOTD so I've modified it slightly.
Dblade>boots>HoG>dagger> Phage? Giants belt? > then pick up whatever you need. Tankyness finish Randuins/Frozen Mallet/Negatron or an offencive option like just a plain old zeal / Atma / Black Cleaver if you're owning / Triforce is amazing on xin but expensive so usually can't get it.
Mogwai what you say?
uhh, I still like wriggle's -> wit's -> mallet on him (opening vamp or boots depending on how much I want to gank). if you're skipping wriggle's, I'd say dblade -> boots -> HoG -> Recurve -> Phage -> Wit's -> w/e with the option to skip HoG if you just want better early power.
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I've seen Smash mention Xin as his go-to pick against Yorick several times now, and I'm very curious why and how the match-up plays out.
It seems to me that Xin's strengths are his ability to force a fight any time he wants, and his moderate sustain. His weakness is of course his inability to disengage.
Yorick's strengths are his strong poke, his great brawling and chasing power, and his strong sustain.
Now I haven't seen a Xin top lane recently so I haven't actually played the match-up, but I can't think of a way for Xin to do anything, unless his damage is much much higher than I think it is.
I see things going like this: Xin jumps to Yorick, Yorick auto-attacks and then Qs, Xin knocks him up, Yorick Ws and Es and keeps auto attacking; he is doing vastly more damage than Xin is, Xin can't disengage without taking massive damage because he is slowed and Yorick is sped up. Once behind, Xin can't CS because Yorick will chase him away with ghouls, and he has no retaliation.
What the hell am I missing?
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Xin's sustain is pretty insane :\
After you get a few levels and/or wriggles you have pre-nerf Irelia levels of sustain from just autoattacking. Not to mention Xin's a monster at assisting ganks.
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On March 21 2012 13:53 Ryuu314 wrote:
Xin's sustain is pretty insane :\
After you get a few levels and/or wriggles you have pre-nerf Irelia levels of sustain from just autoattacking. Not to mention Xin's a monster at assisting ganks.
How many levels is a few? Yorick should be able to zone you pretty handily starting at level 3, Wriggle's will be a long way down the road.
Again, I haven't played the match-up but Xin's kit is similar to Irelia's, and Yorick trashes her for the same reasons.
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On March 21 2012 13:57 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 13:53 Ryuu314 wrote:
Xin's sustain is pretty insane :\
After you get a few levels and/or wriggles you have pre-nerf Irelia levels of sustain from just autoattacking. Not to mention Xin's a monster at assisting ganks. How many levels is a few? Yorick should be able to zone you pretty handily starting at level 3, Wriggle's will be a long way down the road. Again, I haven't played the match-up but Xin's kit is similar to Irelia's, and Yorick trashes her for the same reasons.
Based on my (very limited) experience playing against Xin his sustain is very respectable at lvl 1 and by the time you hit lvl 3 you have some pretty silly amounts of sustain.
Think of it this way, at lvl 3 you heal 30 hp for every 3 attacks, that's basically 10 hp an attack, which is basically equivalent of having 15% lifesteal. Ofc it's not that black and white, but you get the point. It also helps that not that many champs (Yorick included) can 1v1 Xin Zhao early game with few items due to the incredible synergy of his kit.
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wtf are you talking about? Xin bashes Yorick's face in super hard for the first 5 levels. I dunno, I can show you if you want, but it's mad easy.
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On March 21 2012 15:13 Mogwai wrote:
wtf are you talking about? Xin bashes Yorick's face in super hard for the first 5 levels. I dunno, I can show you if you want, but it's mad easy.
i think he's just talking from the perspective of never playing the matchup before but having a fair idea of how both chars work, and i tend to agree, it's kinda hard to pin down why exactly xin just trashes yorick (and i think more specifically why xin works and irelia doesnt, when their kits are somewhat comparable). It's some combination of burst and sustain that just makes it a complete disaster for yorick.
i have to say, i myself was skeptical until i saw it and then tried it.
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Xins early burst is much higher and his animations are quicker and his sustain when W on is higher. The guaranteed knockup and cd reduction on E also means you can burst and E again like a beast. Irelias kit is better in terms of pure numbers but xins is simpler and more effective for just jumping someone and bashing their face in.
For example, irelias Q can work as both a jump and an auto attack reset, but not both, this is useful later on but in lane xin has a jump AND and auto attack reset both of which are absurdly strong early levels.
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The low mana costs and guaranteed CC also mean that he can repeat his combo more than Irelia can and that Yorick can't just disengage after the dash the way he can vs. Irelia.
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Xin free week! I'll have to give him a shot.
His kit is really weird, though, in that his ult is clearly an intiation move (scales on enemy's current health) that needs to be in the middle of their team to be most effective (small AoE and gives you more stats for more people hit).
His Q and W seem to complement a dps build centered around AD and crit since you get so much free attack speed and a knockup on your third auto.
Seems like your build won't really be able to make full use of his kit no matter how you build.
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The thing with Xin is he scales really well of both damage and attack speed. It is a good idea to get pure damage items like BC or BT, and to get the green pot a couple of times as needed. That maxes out his skill really well. Also, his ult does more damage the higher XP the target has, but you might not always want to use it early as its a good finishing skill. You'll have to use your judgement to decide.
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A Xin who focuses on pure damage items and sits his ult is a Xin who, against competent opponents, is going to explode before he does anything useful.
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tried jungle xin just yesterday. got first blood and 2 more assists. enemy udyr who was 0-2 was still able to outlevel me, getting to 12 by the time i hit 10. just couldn't make him work. build was boots -> d-blade -> HoG -> d-blade -> mallet. was trying to go tanky into AS, but still ended up getting blown up.
trying xin v yorick right now top lane though, right now! will report back
haha, alright. that was silly. haven't dominated a lane that hard since like 1200. bonafide counterpick. great work mogwai
went with my "riven" runepage (21 armor, flat MR, lots of arpen and 2.3 AD) and 21/9/0. cloth + 5 start. auto attacked him down to 200 hp at level 1 and never looked back. ended up 5 kills on him and +100 cs, even with shaco ganks. disgusting.
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Why did you forgo wriggle's on jungle xin? His E has really poor mana efficiency early on so realistically he has no fast aoe clearing =/ All he has is q AA reset and w aspd boost
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EPT
