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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On July 21 2012 08:50 Slayer91 wrote: Top lane is the lane where jungle interference in completely integral to the lane. Yes and Xin is at a big disadvantage in this matchup when it comes to ganks. So if we know Xin loses when both junglers camp the lane, and rumble were to also beat him 1v1, then it would show pretty definitively that Rumble wins the matchup overall correct? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
-Teamliquid | ||
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
Been going arp red/ad quint 21-9 cooldown/mpen. Q>W>E>E. R>E>Q>W. Boots3>2 Doran>brutalizer>phage>zeal>trinity>tank This is just the build I like most so far. | ||
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Hyren
United States817 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
On July 21 2012 12:41 Hyren wrote: @iceman Haven't tried the new Xin out yet myself but Saint has been going Boots+3-> Hog and Avarice-> Phage -> Boots 2 -> Ghostblade -> whatever tanky (Randuins, finish Mallet, Maw) and he seems pretty sold on it. It seems odd at first glance that he gets Avarice early rather than getting Brutalizer and straight up finishing Ghostblade when he can. Avarice Blade seems like a very meh item to hold on to. SV too heavy | ||
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
Yea... Gman is like 20-1 so far with new xin rushing trinity/ghostblade/ga and now it seems BT after GA. It's hard too take saint serious going avarice early and then phage. | ||
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Gaslo
Finland951 Posts
On July 21 2012 13:29 icemanzdoinwork wrote: Yea... Gman is like 20-1 so far with new xin rushing trinity/ghostblade/ga and now it seems BT after GA. It's hard too take saint serious going avarice early and then phage. Gman does it on toplane though... At least the games i've seen. So, have been thinking about adding a new jungler to my list, and Xin seems like a nice choice. But how would u build him? boots + 3 into HoG seems like an obvious route, but after that? Should i get wriggle? couple of dorans? Or just get an early bruta? argh, | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
CDR gives xin more damage, more utility, and more cc. So that's an obvious major point to itemize. Since he's melee, with no real escape, he needs some solid survivability. Frozen Heart also seems like a strong choice. I guess Randuins sorta accomplishes this, I'm just a big antifan of HoG in general. Trinity is really good on Xin imo since he makes good use of every stat, early phage is boss, and surprisingly, the sheen adds a lot of damage and sustain. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
CDR is good for bruisers/junglers when it hits a breakpoint, or they have a lot of static damage (or low ratios). Olaf is an excellent example of this. His E does a fixed amount of true damage, so the only way to improve his E is to get CDR. In addition, hitting 40% CDR on olaf takes the cooldown on his Q down to 0.3 seconds if you throw it directly in front of you, and essentially resets the cd when you pick it up in any other situation. Trundle is another good example, since getting 40% CDR on him gives him 100% uptime on contaminate and pillar. As far as I can tell, Xin doesn't hit any kind of breakpoint like this, even with 40% cdr. Even if you EWQ in, you still have a dead period of 1-2 seconds where you can't use any abilities. it does significantly help the CD on your ult as long as you're constantly spamming Q every time it's up. But since his Q and ult both scale very well with AD, and since he has a massive AS boost, and a (potentially) massive armor/MR boost from his ult, it's best to build AD for damage, and build health for tankiness. I agree that trinity is extremely good on him, since he literally can use every stat on it. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
EDIT: Well, technically 33% CDR. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:26 BlasiuS wrote: IMO CDR on xin is okay, but shouldn't be prioritized over attack damage and health. CDR is good for bruisers/junglers when it hits a breakpoint, or they have a lot of static damage (or low ratios). Olaf is an excellent example of this. His E does a fixed amount of true damage, so the only way to improve his E is to get CDR. In addition, hitting 40% CDR on olaf takes the cooldown on his Q down to 0.3 seconds if you throw it directly in front of you, and essentially resets the cd when you pick it up in any other situation. Trundle is another good example, since getting 40% CDR on him gives him 100% uptime on contaminate and pillar. As far as I can tell, Xin doesn't hit any kind of breakpoint like this, even with 40% cdr. Even if you EWQ in, you still have a dead period of 1-2 seconds where you can't use any abilities. it does significantly help the CD on your ult as long as you're constantly spamming Q every time it's up. But since his Q and ult both scale very well with AD, and since he has a massive AS boost, and a (potentially) massive armor/MR boost from his ult, it's best to build AD for damage, and build health for tankiness. I agree that trinity is extremely good on him, since he literally can use every stat on it. Each hit of Q brings your CDs down by 1 second, so not only do you get 100% uptime on your W AS steroid, but you also have only 3-4 seconds in between a popup that lasts 1.5 seconds. It's not as retarded as old xin giving you permenant popup with enough AS, but it's still impressive. You can also think of xin's Q as a weird kind of AD steroid (it does end up mathing out to being very similar to one.) | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:31 TheYango wrote: 40% CDR gives you 100% W uptime. EDIT: Well, technically 33% CDR. didn't notice that, I still think it's not worth prioritizing over the other stats. Haven't tried to theorycraft a good CDR build for him though. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:38 BlasiuS wrote: didn't notice that, I still think it's not worth prioritizing over the other stats. Haven't tried to theorycraft a good CDR build for him though. FH is a big chunk of the CDR you want, and makes a lot of sense for someone who needs a lot of survivability to sit around in the middle of a fight. Top it off with any kindlegem item (Zeke's and shurelias come to mind) - at cap if you have enlightenment or 39% if you have cdr in offense. Kindlegem items also all give HP, which is particularly nice for someone who gets free resists. (from ult) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:39 sylverfyre wrote: FH is a big chunk of the CDR you want, and makes a lot of sense for someone who needs a lot of survivability to sit around in the middle of a fight. + Any other cdr item puts you very close to cap - at cap if you have enlightenment or 39% if you have cdr in offense. I thought FH was a bit lower priority, since you get free resists off of R so Health was better as a defensive stat? Then again I really only play him in normals when I want a fun/random jungler, so I'm not an authority on the matter. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:41 Requizen wrote: I thought FH was a bit lower priority, since you get free resists off of R so Health was better as a defensive stat? Then again I really only play him in normals when I want a fun/random jungler, so I'm not an authority on the matter. Well, I suppose you're right. The kindlegem item maybe should come before the FH (Phage > kindlegem > glacial shroud?) Also brutalizer is super good if you're itching for more damage (Flat armor pen synergizes VERY well with % armor shred.) instead of a tankier setup. And the ghostblade upgrade actually makes more sense for him than a lot of champs who like brutalizer too, but don't care so much about the ghostblade. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:39 sylverfyre wrote: FH is a big chunk of the CDR you want, and makes a lot of sense for someone who needs a lot of survivability to sit around in the middle of a fight. + Any other cdr item puts you very close to cap - at cap if you have enlightenment or 39% if you have cdr in offense. as a CDR item it's good, but I don't like any of the other stats. You shouldn't need to stack such absurd amounts of armor unless the enemy team has stacked/fed AD. He doesn't have mana problems in my experience, so the mana isn't needed. Also, no AD, and no health. Ouch. Seems situational to me, only if you need to stack massive armor, or if there's a non-AD carry auto-attacker on the other team (e.g. Tryndamere, Jax, Yi). If you need defensive items that give armor, randuin's is a better choice most of the time; it gives +health, and has a great teamfight active that's not as situational as frozen heart's passive. Oh and the active has awesome synergy with your ult. Really though if you need armor, I think fratma's is fine for defensive items, the other items can be pure offenseive (tri-force, bloodthrister, black cleaver, last whisper, youmuu's, etc.) The rest is just making sure you initiate by ulting as many people as possible edit: aegis is another great pure defense item, and if you really want CDR, shurelya's is probably the best item since it gives health and health regen, both great for a champ that gets free armor/MR from their kit. edit2: and how can I forget zeke's, another amazing item for Xin. health, CDR, and ridiculous sustain + excellent teamfight aura if you have another AD champ. | ||
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