EPT[Champion] Akali - Page 11
| Forum Index > LoL Strategy |
|
Shauni
4077 Posts
| ||
|
Sven Stryker
United States423 Posts
Okay, so I have been trying something with Akali, and I'd like some people to tell me what's wrong with using it. (assuming there is) First off, Akali's passives trigger at 19.5 AP and 9.5 AD. So we want those two values at level 1. Why do we want them at level 1? For Spellvamp and extra damage on auto attacks. My first thought here was: If we're throwing AD runes for Spellvamp, why not actually get Spellvamp quints too? We get 7.916% Spellvamp for the first 9.5 AD, and we can get another 6% Spellvamp by using our quint slots on Spellvamp. So the idea is to still hit 19.5 AP and 9.5 AD at level 1, but without Quints or items. First of all, we're going to take 21/x/y for masteries. This can give up to 4 AP, 3 AD, 0.5 AD/lvl, 1 AP/lvl, and 105%AP. Notably, the 4 points in Archmage mean we only need 18.57 AP to trigger the passive. (19.5/1.05=18.571) If we took all of these(I don't), we would need 5 AD, and 14.71 AP from runes. Since we want Sorcery and AK mastery, we need to drop at least 4 mastery points if we want to stick to 21/x/y. Now, everyone knows that the most efficient non-quint for AP is glyphs, and for AD is marks. So 9 AP glyphs gives 8.91 AP while 9 AD marks give 8.55 AD. This more than covers our AD needs, but doesn't meet our AP requirement. So we move on to marks and seals for AP. Both give .59 per rune, but we prefer marks for Penetration and Attack Damage. So we fill up with AP seals to gain another 5.31 AP. These would give us totals of 8.91+5.31+4+1/lvl for 19.22 AP and 8.55+3+.5/lvl AD for 12.05 AD. Now we can remove runes and masteries to go back down to 18.571 AP and 9.5 AD. So we want to remove .6485 AP and 2.55 AD. The AP expense can be recovered by taking out an AP seal, or taking out 2 points from AP/level mastery. The AD is more flexible, as points can be recovered from AD/lvl or flat AD masteries, and up to 2 AD marks can be removed. However you do it, you'll want to recover at least 4 mastery points for Sorcery and AK mastery if you don't want to run 25/x/y instead of 21/x/y. The way I have currently settled on is 21/9/0 with 1 Crit chance mark, 8 AD marks, 9 AP seals, 9 AP glyphs, 2 points in Brute Force, 2 points in Blast, no points in Deadliness, and full points in Archmage and Mental Force. (I currently throw the 2 recovered points from Blast in Lifesteal, but an argument could be made for plenty of things, including back into Blast) 8*.95+2=9.6, and 1.05(9*.99+9*.59+4+.5)=19.656 tl;dr: I tried to have both passives + Spellvamp quints for 14% Spellvamp at level 1. There is some leeway in how to finalize it. Is it worthwhile though? | ||
|
schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
On March 09 2012 09:41 Shauni wrote: I've been playing akali a lot lately, it's kinda nice to cloth five top lane (against some ad), take the golems and start bullying at lvl 2. Only laners i cant seem to beat are rumble, pantheon and yorick. Rumble might be possible with some early mres, idk, but the other two seem nigh impossible. Mord, Garen, Lee Sin, Irelia and I'd imagine Udyr all do well vs Akali. | ||
|
PH
United States6173 Posts
So far, the most success I've gotten is to wait until CCs have gone out, then just play like a wuss and QRQ combo in, then run until my Q is back up. | ||
|
clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
| ||
|
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:24 Sven Stryker wrote: tl;dr: I tried to have both passives + Spellvamp quints for 14% Spellvamp at level 1. There is some leeway in how to finalize it. Is it worthwhile though? Not likely. You activate Akali's AP passive to help her win trades. Your setup defeats the purpose because you'll take more damage when you trade, offsetting the gain. Basically, you should either activate the AP passive at level 1 with AP quints or you should use Spell Vamp quints. I wouldn't try to do both. | ||
|
Sven Stryker
United States423 Posts
| ||
|
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
We activate the AD passive for three reasons:
The AP passive isn't as important because it will naturally be activated as soon as you buy something beyond your starting item, and activating it early can be costly. | ||
|
koreasilver
9109 Posts
| ||
|
Shauni
4077 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:59 schmutttt wrote: Mord, Garen, Lee Sin, Irelia and I'd imagine Udyr all do well vs Akali. Akali actually beats Morde. I've played a lot against Morde top and ended up zoning them in about 90% of the games. The remaining 10% is losing due to persistent lvl 2 ganks. vs Morde you have to be really aggressive early on or you'll slowly start losing lane. Garen is winnable if you play passive early on, same with Lee Sin. Lee Sin obviously scary pre6, many picks him to counter Akali, but i feel that Akali wins trades after lvl 6, you can force fights under shroud and try to avoid his e/q. Irelia and Akali are quite even, the one who farms/harasses best pre 6 will win. Udyr isn't a big threat early, but he can probably outfarm you after lvl 7-8 by winning trades, but then again he is severely op and beats basically all top laners. And regarding being too squishy later in the game, I feel that it's best to build either GA or Aegis after your rylai. Lich bane is stupid to get before some survivability, you do enough damage with revolver and rylai pretty far into the game anyway. | ||
|
Sven Stryker
United States423 Posts
On March 10 2012 03:01 koreasilver wrote: You're not losing any defensive Glyphs, they're all AP already. And most people run HP/Level seals, so you're losing mid and late game defense, not so much early game. That could easily be an argument for Armor seals though.As for trying to squeeze in spellvamp quints and having both your passives up, I don't think it would be worth sacrificing your defensive seals and glyphs. You would just get wrecked. I think the moral of this discussion is that you just want as much early AP as possible for both Ability damage and bonus AA damage. So I guess Spellvamp Quints take away too much damage to be worth getting back a bit more health. (and you lose some of the healing from the damage you no longer do as well) | ||
|
koreasilver
9109 Posts
I don't remember the exact way I used to have it, but I had one page with armor seals and ap/lvl glyphs and one page with health/lvl seals and a mixture of flat ap and flat mr glyphs that got the AP passive up at lvl 3. | ||
|
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 10 2012 03:01 koreasilver wrote: I'd argue that the AP passive is extremely important too as it's what allows Akali to really dish out a lot of damage. The problem with not having it active at least by level 2-3 is that it neuters your ability to really dish out a lot of damage if the situation occurs. You want to have that immediate threat and killing ability when you hit level 6 even if you haven't gone back, which happens pretty often if you play the early levels carefully. For example, you can often completely bully a Tryndamere out of lane and force him to ult or die when you hit level 6 if both of you haven't gone back. The sheer damage you get out of having the AP active up is really important. You really don't lose out from having the passive up just because you're going to be getting a revolver as your first item anyway, since you're going to be improving your passive. As for trying to squeeze in spellvamp quints and having both your passives up, I don't think it would be worth sacrificing your defensive seals and glyphs. You would just get wrecked. You're overestimating the amount of damage you get out of the AP passive, especially after the nerf. Assume you're level 3 with AD seals and Brutality (11.55 bonus AD). Your total AD at level 3 will be 74.15. Thus the AP passive adds 6 damage before MR, and only ~4 damage afterward. That's notable, but it's not what "allows Akali to really dish out a lot of damage". In a double Q combo (Q -> Wait -> AA -> Q -> AA) the AP passive represents a mere 2.2% of the total damage you deal. As you build AP the damage becomes much more significant, but the initial activation isn't all that critical. The reason why it's been fairly sacrosanct up until recently is because AP Quints are extremely good on any AP, and once you have 15 AP it's trivial to shoot for 19.5. Now that there are Spell Vamp quints the choice isn't so clear cut, especially as there is plenty of itemization for AP but very little for Spell Vamp. | ||
|
nmbr
United States79 Posts
| ||
|
beg1ner
100 Posts
On July 02 2012 03:44 nmbr wrote: How do you more experienced Akalis feel about maxing W before E if laning vs someone who can hit you through your shroud? Like Orianna, Rumble, etc. The resistance boosts seem to have more utility, at least in my head. I've always used the E as more of a farming skill than for dealing damage. I feel Crescent Slash uses up way too much energy to do damage againts enemy champions. I would still max E over W, but mostly to just farm. It's her only farming ability and you want to get as much gold as possible so you can pick up your big items. The invisibility is enough I think to keep Twilight Shroud at level 1, as well as the slow it gives. | ||
|
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On July 02 2012 03:44 nmbr wrote: How do you more experienced Akalis feel about maxing W before E if laning vs someone who can hit you through your shroud? Like Orianna, Rumble, Amumu jungle, etc. The resistance boosts seem to have more utility, at least in my head. It's not really a laning question. By the time the difference between QEW vs QWE becomes noticeable you're in the mid-game. I like maxing W before E when I know there's going to be a lot of unavoidable damage in teamfights. +40 Armor/MR a big chunk of extra survivability. | ||
|
quillian
United States318 Posts
can someone tell me why hextec is considered core for akali and a waste for kassadin? They seem so similar, but the general wisdom seems to be that akali needs the sustain, and kassadin would rather have something with more ap. I feel the lack on both ends: with akali I rarely get both litchbane and deathcap up, and miss that uber burst. With kass I always feel the need for some sort of life steal or heal. So why the difference? And what is ideal for each? | ||
|
Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Akali is an energy champion whose damage is primarily single target, so she gets the full healing and never runs out of energy to sustain with. | ||
|
Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On July 07 2012 00:32 quillian wrote: Hi, I'm new to lol, lvl15. My mains right now are kassadin and akali ( I like so assassins I guess) can someone tell me why hextec is considered core for akali and a waste for kassadin? They seem so similar, but the general wisdom seems to be that akali needs the sustain, and kassadin would rather have something with more ap. I feel the lack on both ends: with akali I rarely get both litchbane and deathcap up, and miss that uber burst. With kass I always feel the need for some sort of life steal or heal. So why the difference? And what is ideal for each? Akali utilizes energy as her resource system. This means that in lane she can spam Q all the time without ever being in jeopardy of running out of mana. The more spells cast = more health healed. If Kassadin were to rush a revolver instead of catalyst or drings, he would run out of mana very quickly. The trade off just isn't worth it. Hextech revolver also builds into Hextech gunblade which is considered core on akali. This is because she scales off of AD and AP, and she can make good use of the lifesteal and spell vamp whereas Kassadin would only use the spell vamp. | ||
|
Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Kassadin plays more of a vulture/poke role. He has comparatively long cds and much of his damage is aoe, so the spellvamp isn't very good on him. Kass also doesn't need the slow. He also doesn't scale with AD at all (assuming AP kass ofc) | ||
| ||
