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On June 29 2013 01:44 Alaric wrote:
Thanks for the whole info. About the drings into deathcap versus AD mids, doesn't that give you pretty low mana regen during sieges and teamfights, on top of pretty late CDR?
your cdr is a little later and your regen is lower during sieges but blue will remedy that until u get grail. If you don't go the doran route you give the enemy ad laner too much freedom to pressure your other lanes/jungle as well as the ability to bully you around in lane. A zed or kha left un-checked early to mid game is too big of a threat to your team.
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On June 29 2013 03:11 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 01:44 Alaric wrote:
Thanks for the whole info. About the drings into deathcap versus AD mids, doesn't that give you pretty low mana regen during sieges and teamfights, on top of pretty late CDR? your cdr is a little later and your regen is lower during sieges but blue will remedy that until u get grail. If you don't go the doran route you give the enemy ad laner too much freedom to pressure your other lanes/jungle as well as the ability to bully you around in lane. A zed or kha left un-checked early to mid game is too big of a threat to your team.
Against the ad mids I've gone tear dorans into zhonyas with good success. Sorry about omitting Drings I didn't intend to sound like I went tear straight into morellos
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BTW, against AD mids, the cloth armor start isn't really that great. Mana regen is really useful on Ori and also you get armor from your E. Against a super aggro level 2 AD mid, I can see it (Lee sin, etc) but I think dorans, boots, flask are all viable against a majority of AD mids.
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On June 29 2013 09:42 KissBlade wrote:
BTW, against AD mids, the cloth armor start isn't really that great. Mana regen is really useful on Ori and also you get armor from your E. Against a super aggro level 2 AD mid, I can see it (Lee sin, etc) but I think dorans, boots, flask are all viable against a majority of AD mids.
Honestly Ori is one of those champs that can just sit back and farm safely, so a dorans + 2 pots is the best start. She can't really be killed early unless she decides to turn melee.
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On June 28 2013 23:01 Alaric wrote:
TL;DR:
1. 21-0-9, Magic or Hybrid pen / armour / MR / AP, QEW R>Q>W>E as generic set-up, yes/no?
2. Chalice core, Seeker's first/early if against an AD champ, then rely on blue buff (and positioning to survive) for CDR while building more damage since completing an early Grail isn't worth it anymore?
3. How do I position the ball exactly? Hit it to punish an early last hit, then weave around it to make that place dangerous and control where the enemy laner stands to last hit? So despite the range (and your lack of escape) don't hesitate to stand in the middle of the lane if that lets you zone the enemy laner?
4. How to use that passive? It incites you to auto several times in a row, but should I just auto once when they last hit or their CDs are down and retreat to avoid aggro, or try to get an auto in then keep them going to win a trade? The creep wave is safer against skillshots, but should I stand aside so I can try to QW people and abuse the slow to chase and auto them without drawing aggro?
1. I like scaling health because I feel like it's more useful than armor yellows, personal preference really. I also have a seperate rune page for going vs AD mids, which does have armor runes on it though. Vs Ad mids, I like getting cloth5, armor yellow page, 21/9/0, and E first just so I dont fuck up the lane in the first two levels. Seems a bit excessive, but it helps a lot in trades and making sure he won't be able to completely zone you out.
You should also consider movement quints, because ori has one of the slowest base movement speed in the game. Its gotten to a point where I dont care about the initial +15 AP because the move speed lets you kite and chase better.
2. I do crystal + pots or pot/ward vs most people. I just try to out sustain them in trades so my ball has more zoning power. First back get chalice+boots+wards, then decide if you need mres, armor, health, or AP. Most of the time you'll be grail rushing; I just get whatever I can afford and go back to lane quickly. CDR + mana regen makes ori extremely powerful in sieges and sustained damage. My core is grail+dcap for easy lanes, cata/tear for farm lanes, and seeker/cata for very difficult AD lanes. You want to stay away from the last core if you can and use the 2nd core instead; although there are times where a zhonya is better than the seraphs. If you're playing a team that is meant to kill the carries, i'd even consider getting tear/cata/zhonya.
3. The bread and butter ori zone is Q+AA+AA or just Q+AA every time they go for a CS. Prioritize your own CS first though. Use the ball to CS the ones you can't reach . You're rarely going to be able to just use the ball to zone since the mana/damage ratio isn't really worth it. When you have a lot of mana, you can do QE+AAs to negate minion aggro. So basically, you just want to position your ball in such a way that it will guarantee a hit, and position yourself so you can follow it up with at least 1 AA. You don't want a complete zone because you'd most likely be overextending, but its basically just moving around your ball.
4. QW+AAs is only for kiting; you need to be in melee range (200-400 range) for you to land more than 2 autos. A trick you can use if they're in true melee range is W (or QEW if the ball isnt on you) AAs+Q as he's running away (easier to hit the Q that way). Wins every single trade unless the other person is cassiopia and you got hit by poison. Plus, saving the W for the speed up is a lot more useful than the damge at low lvs. I find this completely counters nid's cat form in particular if you position your self correctly.
Always make sure your EW is up if you didnt ward anything for escapes. I tend to skip on wards, which is why I rarely harass with QW.
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I just realized that hybrid penetration marks only grants 2.3 less mpen than magic pen marks in return for 8.1 additional armor pen. I figure I should just switch to all hybrid, especially when laning against melee assassins like Akali or Diana before level 6.
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On July 04 2013 09:38 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I just realized that hybrid penetration marks only grants 2.3 less mpen than magic pen marks in return for 8.1 additional armor pen. I figure I should just switch to all hybrid, especially when laning against melee assassins like Akali or Diana before level 6.
They're super nice if you can afford them.
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They're incredible, though they also create a bigger burden on your runepages (there's a few champs I wish I were running raw MPen on.)
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Belgium9950 Posts
On July 04 2013 13:42 sylverfyre wrote:
They're incredible, though they also create a bigger burden on your runepages (there's a few champs I wish I were running raw MPen on.)
In practice I almost exclusively end up using armor seals when using hybrid pen, since you'll be trading autos/drawing minion aggro a lot. I think you can get by with a single page.
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On July 04 2013 21:42 RaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 13:42 sylverfyre wrote:
They're incredible, though they also create a bigger burden on your runepages (there's a few champs I wish I were running raw MPen on.) In practice I almost exclusively end up using armor seals when using hybrid pen, since you'll be trading autos/drawing minion aggro a lot. I think you can get by with a single page.
Truthfully i only really think you'd need 2.
The page where you'll want MS quints or AP quints, should be the only other one imo.
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Armor seals should be in all but your most niche page anyway. I don't see any other seals being more useful now that even champs like Akali don't require specific setups. Hybrid pens also have more widespread use than most people think, at least more than just on Kennen, Kayle, and Teemo. You can run it on any ranged AP caster vs. Melee and ranged support vs. melee support. Lulu especially wrecks Taric, Alistar, and Leona with them. You can just use a single page for both these roles.
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United States23745 Posts
I generally max W but every Ori in OGN maxes Q (and Toyz did as well back in the Season 2 finals). Is Q max really better in almost all circumstances?
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On July 12 2013 13:07 onlywonderboy wrote:
I generally max W but every Ori in OGN maxes Q (and Toyz did as well back in the Season 2 finals). Is Q max really better in almost all circumstances?
I think it gives better zone control. You can just Q all day. Its Cooldown gets to like 1.5S with CDR, and W's CD doesn't lower with skills + Q's mana cost doesnt go up while W's does.
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On July 12 2013 13:07 onlywonderboy wrote:
I generally max W but every Ori in OGN maxes Q (and Toyz did as well back in the Season 2 finals). Is Q max really better in almost all circumstances?
Orianna's weakness arises when she can not move her ball via Q or E. Leveling Q decreases the cooldown of the skill, adds damage, and if I'm not mistaken also has a flat mana cost. Since you're most likely not maxing E first or even second, it's pretty important that you max Q so you can have minimal down time in re-positioning your ball.
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Belgium9950 Posts
Yeah I prefer maxing Q too, like mentioned it gives u way better zone control. Getting a second level in W lvl 5 or lvl 7 is nice if the matchup is going really well. The extra slow allows you to put in some more autos as well in the trade.
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On July 12 2013 13:07 onlywonderboy wrote:
I generally max W but every Ori in OGN maxes Q (and Toyz did as well back in the Season 2 finals). Is Q max really better in almost all circumstances?
Just try using a 6s cd Q against a decent Lee, Kass, Ahri, or worse Zed. Hell, even Jayce would just RQ at you if you try to Q him. x)
Since I've been asking a bunch of questions and stuff previously, and have spammed Orianna games since, might as well give a bit myself from what I got ('cept that I suck, because that one is a given):
- While using Q to reposition the ball and zone can be interesting once you have some mana/mana regen, before your first back you should aim at hitting the enemy laner with every Q early on, it taxes your mana too much to be "wasted" on repositioning.
- Despite Orianna's lack of escapes, it's quickly annoying to go and ward during the first minutes of the game because you'll lose the ball's positioning (another 50 mana burnt), so I went from charm/2 wards/3 health pots/mana pot to charm/ward/3 health pots/3 mana pots and the difference is huge.
Warding one side is enough, and I've found that despite only getting 200 mana (eg. 4 Q casts) out of the potions, as I usually went oom after reaching level 3-4 right as my opponent is under tower with a biggish wave on my side, these few casts let you put down a huge amount of pressure as your opponent tries to last hit with autos and you can punish him (if you warded).
- Depending on match-up or jungler, starting Dring+2 pots or charm+ward and pots are possible when against an AD mid. The mana regen (and AP for a dring) definitely does more for you than the armour since you can go on the offensive at level 1, and E at level 2 gives you some armour and shield to make use of the superior harass/dps from your passive. Double dring+Tear into Seeker's or Deathcap both seemed workable depending on the flow of the game. Against heavy AD teams I often found myself going Tabi, or even Tabi+Zhonya as first big items (after Tear), using the dps from Orianna and trying to kite would easily make up for the loss of Sorcs during later fights once I was able to survive the burst danger from midgame fights where these AD comps are at their highest point.
- E's resistances are so damn strong when you're tanking people with 150+ armour and your shield despite having less than 2k HP.
- Never ever use E unless needed (or you're ahead and you just E yourself and run at the enemy to auto him). It's a drain on your mana (bigger than Q!) with little damage (thus clearing) and with a ~5s window for free damage once it wears down. Even once you have mana and CDR, don't do stuff like QWE to farm while keeping the ball on you, it's terribly inefficient.
- Once your Q or E is on cooldown, having to burn the other can put you in a very bad position if you miss it or your opponent gets in range to damage you anyway. Everytime it happens, consider yourself punished/outplayed/whatever. Something went wrong.
- Even in teamfights, especially in soloQ, watch carefully the cooldown on your spells because you definitely don't want your Hecarim/Malphite/etc. initiating after you Q'd the ball out of them with E on cooldown. It's important to be sure what you role is at any point (eg. poking with Q and W, or setting up an initiation through positioning close enough to the enemy with the ball on your initiator).
- Her roaming is actually pretty potent since she pushes hard, and roamers themselves can be punished by using this pushing to get their tower.
- Positioning is important. Not only on the ball, but with your low base MS you don't want to have to burn W to reach the river/jungle/etc. in time to E an ally and thus lose a good 40% of your burst. In the same way, if you're low on mana and getting ganked you want the ball to back to you asap so there's less chances to get cc'd before you can W under yourself and run.
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Might want to add that whenever possible to use Q to reposition the ball closer to yourself or whoever you need to E. I can't tell you how many times I tried to shield myself or someone else, just to have to wait for the ball to take 6 years to get there.
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What about Tear on Ori ? Lately I haven't seen that many people buying it, some people tell me to buy it, some guides don't, etc...
So what's its actual state ? Is it worth ? If yes, when and why ?
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On August 22 2013 11:11 Sakray wrote:
What about Tear on Ori ? Lately I haven't seen that many people buying it, some people tell me to buy it, some guides don't, etc...
So what's its actual state ? Is it worth ? If yes, when and why ?
If somehow you get aa plus Morello I think its really good. But, athenes is so much easier.
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EPT
