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On April 17 2013 00:08 Juicyfruit wrote:
I think AP jax is the stronger build these days. Lich bane is stupid strong and I tend to view free MR as being a better deal than free armor because of itemization. You're less impaired by CC because you are bursty but can still pump out absurd damage if left alone. Something like Revolver -> Lichbane -> Randuins -> Deathcap is a strong all-rounder with regards to burst, sustained damage, tankiness and utility.
I can't really imagine this being the case. Typically as Jax you have one or two "offensive items" (but even those are usually hybrid items with mixed defensive/offensive power) and the rest is tanky stuff. Sure your burst might be higher with those items, but as soon as your spin is down you're going to get reamed.
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I think I should try out full AP Jax. He seems more like an autoattack damage dealer but as was mentioned on the previous page he gets CCed a lot and it's hard to make full use of autoattacks in melee range.
I've played a lot of Kayle and Jax and I think Jax is heavily favored. All he needs to do is rush BotrK or Mallet or even Triforce.
You can't get away from Jax if he starts his E. It doesn't have a long windup. Then he jumps to you and there is no way in hell you will outtrade him with brush and everything else. It's a losing fight. He wins trades easily with his E and slows, and does just fine before he gets slows. I've mostly played from the Kayle side though, and if I do manage to get free harass then I'll do alright for one laning session. Then teamfights start and he's really much scarier than you due to all the free stats he gets.
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Kayle's pretty terror in teamfights, not sure where you're getting that Jax is scarier in teamfights. Kayles E is a massive "free stats" autoattack steroid with near-100% uptime considering Kayle's typical items, plus her passive stacks up to 15% armor/MR shred for you and your friends, and a really beefy point-n-click slownuke. Ranged autoattacks - especially ones that are beefed up by a good steroid - are always going to be pretty king for teamfights.
Not to say Jax is bad in teamfights, but you can't just look at Kayle and say "if we go even in lane, it's fine because I am way better in teamfights." That's just not true.
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ive tried ap jax, and hes ok, but not too viable in most games. it has a lot of burst (Q and W) and ofc the R passive but he is still squishy and AD champs can shut him down.
Build: Sorc Shoes, WOTA, Gauntlet, Void Staff.( not in order)
maybe even zhonyas
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yeah... I'm in the wrong thread... CURSE THE BACK BUTTON!
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On April 17 2013 18:41 Jaydosu wrote:
ive tried ap jax, and hes ok, but not too viable in most games. it has a lot of burst (Q and W) and ofc the R passive but he is still squishy and AD champs can shut him down.
Build: Sorc Shoes, WOTA, Gauntlet, Void Staff.( not in order)
maybe even zhonyas
You want things that better synergize with the mechanics of his abilities for increased damage -- particularly AS and CDR items. Nashor's and sheen-based items (if AP, I'd do lichbane) should be first priorities.
Generally speaking, pretty much anything that gives a wide-variety of stats is going to be good for Jax because he needs everything.
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Honestly, I've been not going for offense-first on jax a lot, especially if I can afford giants belt on my first back. Sunfire>Offense or just GB>Offense is stronger in a lot of matchups.
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On April 18 2013 06:12 cLutZ wrote:
Honestly, I've been not going for offense-first on jax a lot, especially if I can afford giants belt on my first back. Sunfire>Offense or just GB>Offense is stronger in a lot of matchups.
Eh, I don't like any build that does not involve either a quick phage or cutlass to give Jax a slow and allow him to kill people who run. Getting early kills is essential for setting up your late game. I don't think you need an early giants belt on Jax. You can very easily afford to complete your first big damage item (triforce, BotRK, gunblade) before having to worry about getting tanky. The tankiness only becomes a necessity in teamfights.
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So I've been playing Jax again.
First of all, 3 of the 4 games I played were against Teemo top. Is it just me or does that match up suck giant balls?
Second, I've been doing a build (roughly, obv depends on team comp and stuff) mercs->bork->randuins->maw->tf->gunblade.
I want to build a warmogs sometime before tf/skip gunblade, but I'm a little skeptical that because of his ult lasting 8 seconds, that if a team fight gets drawn out more than 8 seconds/I survive longer than 8 seconds (seems to happen quite a bit) that I'm wasting quite a bit of tankiness. Does my logic make sense (it's 3am and I'm not exactly sure how to describe my thought process)? Also, one of the reasons I build gunblade is because it gives even more life steal/spell vamp that along with my ult feels super effective.
Does going for the warmogs anyways make sense? (I don't have enough long games to have a strong opinion, but my build doesn't feel like it's tanky enough for a diver like jax). Are there any other strong jax items I should consider/items that I'm building that seem off? Jax doesn't feel like the guy you want to rush locket/aegis on unless your team refuses to, but I could be wrong.
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If I want a belt item I tend to prefer randuin's to warmogs just because you'll often duel AD carries so the passive is great, the active helps sticking to people, also #1 slot-effectiveness for physical EHP. My MR item, however, is SV, because more HP, more MR, and CDR that feels so good on Q and E (I don't really use the passive because my go-to is boots/triforce/randuin's/SV, with only a dblade or two for sustain). I guess it would be better than gunblade in terms of survivability, but not in terms of damage+survivability. You're pretty short on MR however, aren't you?
I'm not a fan of rushing Locket, but the item's pretty good whatever happens (even if they reduced the slot-effectiveness :/) and it has a nice mix of defensive stats (HP, armour, CDR) so it's not bad for a midgame timing if your teammates won't build it.
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On April 17 2013 12:32 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 10:10 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think I should try out full AP Jax. He seems more like an autoattack damage dealer but as was mentioned on the previous page he gets CCed a lot and it's hard to make full use of autoattacks in melee range.
I've played a lot of Kayle and Jax and I think Jax is heavily favored. All he needs to do is rush BotrK or Mallet or even Triforce.
You can't get away from Jax if he starts his E. It doesn't have a long windup. Then he jumps to you and there is no way in hell you will outtrade him with brush and everything else. It's a losing fight. He wins trades easily with his E and slows, and does just fine before he gets slows. I've mostly played from the Kayle side though, and if I do manage to get free harass then I'll do alright for one laning session. Then teamfights start and he's really much scarier than you due to all the free stats he gets. you can get away easily. the moment he starts spinning you should W away. you're hitting him from E range anyways so there should be no excuse for him getting on to you other than flash. if he flashes you can use your own flash as well or just pop ult which has lower cd. also you can get free harass on jax during laning with q
You must play shitty Jaxes. I've played the matchup at least a dozen times by now.
It's a 1 second windup on the spin. Are you telling me you can see the spin, react in your third of a second, watch Jax jump in the air for a third of a second, and then move out of Jax's movement and stun radius of ~180 in that last third of a second? He doesn't even need the stun to trade. I haven't even factored in ping.
And I have well over 100 games as Kayle by now. Those midgame fights are brutal against a Jax. I have had decent 60 ish win rates as both. Jax beats anyone who is autoattack reliant because he gets 3 seconds of invulnerability to their damage on a level 1 ability that deals up to 100 damage.
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There is no way jax should win in lane vs kayle between two evenly skilled players... Kayles harass is just way too strong. You can farm from a safe distance and it's fairly easy to anticipate when a jax is going to jump you, which he should never be able to because you've harassed him down to such low hp he can't even cs, nevermind trade with you.
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I think he meant that you can W yourself and walk away as soon as the stun wears off. There, a 18s cd burnt and unless he has phage or cutlass he can't stick to you.Now you can Q him and start wacking until you're about to miss a cs or take turret aggro. I find Jax extremely reliant on that first item (and a phage proc if you start that) to actually be able to trade against Kayle. My problem is that due to E cd I tend to take too much harass to be able to win because even though I outtrade, I start off too low to really be on top once we disengage.
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sorry but ap jax sucks. only offensive items you buy on him are triforce, botrk and guinsoos, sometimes hextech gunblade instead of botrk or even both of them. rest are tank items, randuins/warmogs/GA/MoM/Frozen Heart.
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Lots of scvs. Welcome to TL. How'd you guys fine us?
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The problems with AP Jax are 1) it is super expensive to be effective, 2) you're going to be squishy, and 3) AP items are generally gold-inefficient for Jax when compared to hybrid items.
The best damage items for Jax are undoubtedly triforce, gunblade, BotRK, nashor's, and rageblade. Generally, pick 3, then add randuins and spirit visage. Of course, build order will vary each game.
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EPT
