EPT[Champion] Jax - Page 12
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
The AP ratio on W is 0.6 or equivalently 0.15 per hit The AP ratio on R is 0.7 or equivalently 0.233 per hit So it takes 2.6 AP to get one point of damage per hit (equivalent to 1 AD) It costs 52 gold for one point of damage per hit by building AP, or 36.7 gold by building AD. Since your ult scales both AD and AP the same way, the relative ratios won't change. With your ult on, it takes 2.17 AP or 0.833 AD for one point of damage (43.4 gold and 30.6 gold respectively) It changes a bit if you include Q and E, but those skills are used more situationally. I suspect they would favor AD. The main reason for getting AP is that it gives you better burst damage than AD. If you land an auto + W combo with an R proc, the whole 2 hit combo has an AP ratio of 1.3 and an AD ratio of 2. So it costs 30.8 gold to add one point of damage per hit by building AP, or 36.7 gold by building AD. No one turns on their ult to harass so I'm not going to do it with R on. It doesn't change the conclusion anyways. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On February 06 2012 07:47 BluzMan wrote: If anything, I'd stay away from AD items on the new Jax. I've yet to do the calculations, but his ratios/cooldowns make him dangerous with AP now and he lost the AD part on his W so he has little to no synergy with the stat aside from his ult giving 20% of bonus AD (so a BF sword will give you an extra Longsword for 8 seconds, boom OP). He gained a synergy with Sheen (already was decent, now should be great) and with AP in general (W + R does unholy damage if you can keep landing it) so the real item that looks really really good on him now is Rylai. Permaslow is very powerful on a cleanup crew champion Jax essentially is. I don't see the real reason behind Gunblade now, it's not even that good offensively after it's nerf and you will be very squishy when you finish it, even moreso if you get a Rageblade. Logic also tells that you shouldn't be building pure damage items on a champ who has alot of offensive stats for free. His W "scales" with AD, though. It's a attack reset, so building AD still makes it great. | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
So even though I was super tired, and Jax buffs were announced to come out in two days, I stubbornly queued through -200 elo of mostly jax games and now I'm in the 1400's. What better way to re-learn a champion right? Anyway here's some thoughts after 0-10 games pre-buff and 2-0 games post-buff: Jax can and should be very adaptive when it comes to builds. He may never go two games with the same setup. This is because a) His kit is extremely simple and bare-bones, especially post-remake (4 ways to hit people better, a jump and a small personal cc+shield). To stand out in some way he must build for it. b) He scales with like, everything. Since both gold and levels are so good on Jax, I believe he's best soloing top, and his primary strategy should be 1) survive lane phase 2) build whatever the team needs Anyone who managed this will do well with Jax because of a) and b). This hasn't really changed with the remake--hence why Jax threads tend to have the most wildly different build suggestions supported by anecdotal evidence. Went atmogs of nature and did amazing? You probably 'felt' like you weren't tanky enough, perhaps your team really needed someone to jump in early and zone out that Vayne. Built pure damage and rolled face? Your team was probably fine on initiation and needed a dpser with some sort of slowing capability to clean up. Dyrus goes 0/29/1 with flash+tp, turtles hard and farms hard. Hashinshin goes 21/9/0 with ghost/ignite and is super aggressive in lane. Both are ~2200 and excel at different playstyles (though Hashin really needs to not first-pick Jax, or at least run some flat MR runes when they counter with Rumble/Vlad/Kennen zzz). Imma climb my way back to 1700 with this brodooski and maybe write a guide or something. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:03 xDaunt wrote: Is there any situation in which you would not open doran's blade in lane with Jax? I absolutely hate getting wriggles on him and feel like he needs to bully the hell out of his lane to be at his best. Who does he beat with a dblade start? Do you play like Dyrus' old Jax where you chunk them with QW every time they're in range? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:08 starfries wrote: Who does he beat with a dblade start? Do you play like Dyrus' old Jax where you chunk them with QW every time they're in range? I prefer to abuse counterstrike. Skill order is EWWQ. You can zone out a lot of heroes early on doing this. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:19 xDaunt wrote: I prefer to abuse counterstrike. Skill order is EWWQ. You can zone out a lot of heroes early on doing this. Is the dblade necessary? I do the same, but boots and pots or cloth and pots feels safer. But if there are heroes that he can only zone with the extra damage from dblade it'd be a good option. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:30 starfries wrote: Is the dblade necessary? I do the same, but boots and pots or cloth and pots feels safer. But if there are heroes that he can only zone with the extra damage from dblade it'd be a good option. Yeah, boots+3hp would be the alternative opening and makes sense in some matchups (like GP). | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
In my opinion massing cdr is extremely beneficial because of his awesome skillset, and for this both Nashors Tooth and Frozen Heart should go well with Jax. Triforce would suit being his only damage item in a tanky build, whereas with more of a DPS-oriented build I would prefer going for mostly AP, probably with a gunblade, nashors, rylai and whatever's needed. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 11 2012 04:20 Shikyo wrote: In my opinion Jax deals a ton of damage even without items so you should be doing a relatively tanky build. In my opinion massing cdr is extremely beneficial because of his awesome skillset, and for this both Nashors Tooth and Frozen Heart should go well with Jax. Triforce would suit being his only damage item in a tanky build, whereas with more of a DPS-oriented build I would prefer going for mostly AP, probably with a gunblade, nashors, rylai and whatever's needed. but his ult makes offense scale off of offense... it's so tempting to get some serious AP/AD with that ult active. but I literally don't know shit about jax. have never been able to make heads or tails out of how anyone does well with him ever, so don't mind me. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 11 2012 04:24 Mogwai wrote: but his ult makes offense scale off of offense... it's so tempting to get some serious AP/AD with that ult active. but I literally don't know shit about jax. have never been able to make heads or tails out of how anyone does well with him ever, so don't mind me. It gives flat 65 AD and AP and 20% of bonus AD and AP you have. The flat bonuses are in my opinion far better than the % bonuses. The flat bonuses in fact are so huge that he deals respectable damage even as a full tank. 100 AD -> 165 is a far bigger increase than 300 AD -> 405 AD even though the latter increase is 40 dmg more. (He also still scales pretty heavily with TIME. And most important thing about time is staying alive.) | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 11 2012 04:24 Mogwai wrote: but his ult makes offense scale off of offense... it's so tempting to get some serious AP/AD with that ult active. but I literally don't know shit about jax. have never been able to make heads or tails out of how anyone does well with him ever, so don't mind me. Ya, his jungle is decent and I know that, but Im waiting for a pro player to actually figure him out before I rewrite the op. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 11 2012 04:28 Shikyo wrote: It gives flat 65 AD and AP and 20% of bonus AD and AP you have. The flat bonuses are in my opinion far better than the % bonuses. The flat bonuses in fact are so huge that he deals respectable damage even as a full tank. 100 AD -> 165 is a far bigger increase than 300 AD -> 405 AD even though the latter increase is 40 dmg more. (He also still scales pretty heavily with TIME. And most important thing about time is staying alive.) Isn't the ult uptime only like 6 seconds though? So while he does scale really well with time off his passive, you can't count on ult active to work well throughout a long fight. Again, I really have no idea how anyone makes this character work, I just look at the numbers on his skills and I see AD and AP scaling off of AD and AP and go, "oh shit, he probably can burst stupidly hard with that shit." | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 11 2012 04:32 Mogwai wrote: Isn't the ult uptime only like 6 seconds though? So while he does scale really well with time off his passive, you can't count on ult active to work well throughout a long fight. Again, I really have no idea how anyone makes this character work, I just look at the numbers on his skills and I see AD and AP scaling off of AD and AP and go, "oh shit, he probably can burst stupidly hard with that shit." Well he can burst but then he dies in 0.1 seconds or so. Jax already was a glass cannon while he got 1k hp from items, now when he doesn't he just dies in a second if you build no survivability | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
I think gunblade is the best start for him. Having the sustain, the burst, and the active are just all so crucial. I agree that his build is very flexible. Gunblade is the one item I always want the most. I find myself most often going for Gunblade, then Mallet, Rageblade, GA, and then Atmas or Tri-Force. For jungle I start boots3, get a wriggles and a sheen and then some tanky stuff but I don't think I've ever build FH on him. I don't really think I need the mana that bad. I've never really thought about it. Smash, if you want to try him toplane, I recommend the Dyrus 0/29/1 build. You can pretty much shrug off anyone and farm safely, and once you get some items Jax is still a beast. I'd actually really like to see you play him. His dunks are pretty special. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
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