sorry for the misleading post, I should have been more clear. What I meant was that you could cancel the E animation and attack during the spin. You still dodge stuff and have the stun go off as planned.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

February 02 2012 19:06 GMT

#202

On February 03 2012 02:55 Requizen wrote:
I think the idea is that they're just stating the obvious: max W first. If you engage when Q and E (and eventually R) is up, if your W is leveled up, you win every trade. Period. Jump - Counter - W, especially if you have a Wriggles, allows you to trade evenly to victoriously every single time.

Yes, if all ur spells are up you will win every trade. The problem is that ur e is crucial to coming out ahead in trades but it has a ridiculously long cd where ur opponent can zone you our force unfavorable trades. Without e and/or ur ult u will never win a damage trade against most top solos assuming you're not already dominating. Even then, most solo top champs have a way to disengage from you very easily.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

February 02 2012 19:19 GMT

#203

The CD on E isn't that long, even at rank 1. 18 seconds is shorter than the CD on Gangplank's W or E, same as Wukong's Decoy, same as Renekton's Slice and Dice, etc. It's pretty darn good for an ability that reduces so much damage.

Honestly, as long as you're saving your Leap Strike and not smashing it on CD, you should be able to get out of any unfavorable engagement anyway.

phyvo

United States5635 Posts

February 02 2012 22:06 GMT

#204

After running around with E for awhile this patch I was amazed to discover that its damage was actually nerfed compared to last patch because it felt like I hit like a truck. The extra survivability, lower CD, and easy stun are worth the reduction I think. 2 more seconds on ulti is really useful too.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

February 02 2012 22:14 GMT

#205

Yeah, the damage is a smidge lower, but you don't really use it for damage in the first place. Plus, if did stack like it did before with the longer duration, well, I'd laugh and murder people harder than I already do.

JackDino

Gabon6219 Posts

February 03 2012 16:39 GMT

#206

Maxing W now that it no longer scales off AD and with no reason to use any AP runes is bad, maxing E is almost always the best thing to max, because of cd.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

February 03 2012 17:05 GMT

#207

W is still an auto-attack reset, which would augment your dps regardless of its bonus damage. Then it also helps to charge up your passive, and proc your ult passive more often. How would that not be good? I go R>W>E>Q, since even at level 5 Q cooldown is generally too high that if you use it to engage it won't be up to allow you to disengage soon.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

February 03 2012 17:14 GMT

#208

Depends on your build. Are you just going straight AS/AD? Then yeah, E first is probably best. But I've been doing hybrid-y stuff like Gunblade and Triforce (and maybe Rageblade), so the damage is pretty damn high. Especially with Triforce.

Even without the AP, though, it's still a high damage attack that resets the swing timer, gives lifesteal, and procs your passive and ult. Nothing to scoff at.

I think Leap Strike is probably the "one point wonder". While the damage is pretty high, I generally only find myself saving it for chasing or escaping, never as a source of damage unless it guarantees a kill.

Edit:

By the way, did you know Counterstrike goes off even if you're CC'd? It's very funny getting ulted by WW only to stun him and walk away.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

February 03 2012 18:10 GMT

#209

Yes, it is. There was a Malz in the first game I tried jungle Jax in. Was pretty fun once I got farmed, as he'd always focus me, but by casting E and making sure I'm near him he'd get interrupted. :D

starfries

Canada3508 Posts

February 03 2012 18:16 GMT

#210

Max W is half the cooldown of anything else while doing comparable damage, so I don't really see any reason not to level it first. It's arguably the skill that benefits the most from leveling too, since with a 3 second cooldown you're guaranteed two Ws if you pop your stun.

I think both Q second and E second are viable. If you max W and Q with only one point in E, your QW harass hits like truck. After level 6, it's pretty safe to use your Q like that since there's no way they can stay and fight anyways, so they have to eat the free damage.

Max W and E is a lot safer though, if the enemy laner is really aggressive and you need to keep popping your E to counter their harass.

and I wish counterstrike blocked on-hit CC like Garen's silence

xDaunt

United States17988 Posts

February 04 2012 23:25 GMT

#211

Man, jungle jax is really fun. He jungles so damn quickly and safely, and his ganks are pretty good if you use counterstrike properly. If you're level 6, you can ROFLstomp anyone who tries to counterjungle you (or you can invade their jungle).

Anyway, here's the build that I like:

21-9-0
AD red, armor yellow, AS blue, AD purple

vamp scepter
boots1
bilgewater cutlass (you really don't need wriggles on Jax given how hard he hits starting at level 6)
boots2 (mercs)
triforce (this is just too good on Jax to pass up)

From there, just tank out as needed and finish your gunblade when appropriate.

starfries

Canada3508 Posts

February 05 2012 01:45 GMT

#212

On February 05 2012 08:25 xDaunt wrote:
Man, jungle jax is really fun. He jungles so damn quickly and safely, and his ganks are pretty good if you use counterstrike properly. If you're level 6, you can ROFLstomp anyone who tries to counterjungle you (or you can invade their jungle).

Anyway, here's the build that I like:

21-9-0
AD red, armor yellow, AS blue, AD purple

vamp scepter
boots1
bilgewater cutlass (you really don't need wriggles on Jax given how hard he hits starting at level 6)
boots2 (mercs)
triforce (this is just too good on Jax to pass up)

From there, just tank out as needed and finish your gunblade when appropriate.

The cutlass makes his ganks really scary too... 50% slow, holy shit. I wonder if it's viable on other junglers who don't need the Wriggle's speed but like the extra CC.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

February 05 2012 03:23 GMT

#213

I'm not so sure.

For lower damage, tankier junglers, the damage proc is too much to pass up. The ward is also really nice if you don't buy as many wards as you should or as a back-up ward for when you don't go back for a while. Jax is one of the few that can take care of it and also build it into Gunblade.

UniversalSnip

9871 Posts

February 05 2012 03:33 GMT

#214

you buy cutlass but you don't immediately grow it into a gunblade?

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

February 05 2012 03:36 GMT

#215

On February 05 2012 12:33 UniversalSnip wrote:
you buy cutlass but you don't immediately grow it into a gunblade?

After boots I will. Vamp - boots - Cutlass - Merc's - Gunblade. I feel way too slow without boots 2, and the CC reduction is too much in some games if the lanes are CC heavy.

xDaunt

United States17988 Posts

February 05 2012 16:34 GMT

#216

Yeah, forget what I said. The better build order is vamp, boots, cutlass, mercs, gunblade, warmogs if you really want to snowball.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

February 05 2012 20:25 GMT

#217

Warmogs? Considering his damage output, wouldn't you rather go the spellvamp/lifesteal/resist route?

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

February 05 2012 20:35 GMT

#218

On February 06 2012 05:25 Alaric wrote:
Warmogs? Considering his damage output, wouldn't you rather go the spellvamp/lifesteal/resist route?

then cc would rape you. you can't do old jax route of stacking damage/spellvamp/lifesteal/resists because old jax got a ton of hp from his passive. now you're really squishy (no hp) so if they have any cc at all you'll get exploded if you try to go with just spellvamp/lifesteal/resists.

xDaunt

United States17988 Posts

February 05 2012 20:55 GMT

#219

On February 06 2012 05:25 Alaric wrote:
Warmogs? Considering his damage output, wouldn't you rather go the spellvamp/lifesteal/resist route?

Yeah, once you get gunblade, you'll have great damage already, but you'll be squishy as shit. Warmogs is the best 1-stop shop survivability item right now. Some games, you'll need a full force of atmogs set up. Usually, though, you'll be able to get by with atmogs and wits end.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

February 05 2012 21:21 GMT

#220

Yeah, I wasn't talking about a nodamage route. I've been buying a lot of QSS recently, adding that to phage, wriggles, revolver. if I need more HP I got for Aegis and that's about 150-150 and 2400 HP.