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On February 08 2012 13:28 Juddas wrote:So alistaris basically my main champ nowadays because my friend will play blitz and that is honestly just OP bot, and I have gone towards a more bruisery, damage build, instead of tank. My friend told me to try it out and I thought it was awesome, but he told me rush T-Force, which is just so hard and a pretty fail build it seems. So I decided to come up with a different idea. How does this sound? Nashors tooth CD boots Warmogs Atmas Lich Bane + Show Spoiler +Or something similar with maybe more AP... Please help me theorycraft a little!
What masteries are you running? CD boots + tooth is 40% cdr. You get CDR in all 3 trees, so it seems like a bit of a waste going for 40% with items as well.
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Oh well I was shooting for the 40 w/out masteries, but I suppose that is a bit of a waste. My friend and I were justr discussing this and he suggested something along the lines of
Tooth
Warmogs
Atmas
ManaMune?
CD boots/mobility/ greaves/treads
Banshees
or Tiamit?!
or even RoA in there somewhere.
For masteries im pretty sure i was going some fail 0/21/5 (only lvl 26 XD)
Or should I be looking for some more damage...?
What is this build really lacking?
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AD Alistar doesn't work too well because in team fights, you rarely have time to autoattack. Alistar's greatest strength is his ability to peel and cc, so between cooldowns, you should be repositioning. If you are laning with blitz, you can go philo+boots+sheen and that will be all the damage you need during the laning phase. After that I would stack aura items, maybe a frozen heart if you are taking farm.
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Sorry to bump again, but I would really like to learn how to jungle with Ali. I always just end up crushing bot and then roam the whole game, so why not Jungle?
Could you tell me your paths, runes, masteries and build please?>
And did this newest E nerf hurt his jungle?
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I am by no mean a good Alistar, but I absolutely love to play him as a tanky support/ganker. He's so much fun.
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I jungle Ali like I jungle Blitz. Start blue at level 1 (unless you get a team who's super willing to help wolves and blue) with boots and pots, hit 2 and level 2 gank. As long as you can WQ combo every time there's no reason not to be able to at the VERY least force a flash, but I'd say about 50% of the tie it ends up in a kill. The reason I mentioned Blitz is that they're similar in the sense that they have garbage clear times, and you're not going to able to justify jungling them unless you're doing it to gank early and often.
I usually tell my lanes to take as much of the jungle as they care to, and just control buff camps on my own, because if you don't you're very prone to being counterjungled. I know I don't use optimal runes or masteries for him because I just pick what'll help me gank more, so perhaps I won't be that helpful there (though if you want to know I use aspd marks, armor seals, mr/level glyphs, and movespeed quints with 21/0/9 masteries) but yeah, don't get caught up on making sure you hit every camp before ganking, as you really would be better off with almost any other jungler if you don't want to gank a shit ton.
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Netherlands4987 Posts
I also jungle Alistar like I jungle Blitz, except I don't ever gank before I hit lvl 3.
My route: Blue[smite] > Wolves > Wraiths > Golems[smite] > Bot or Mid gank. I open with boots + reds.
If you want more details, feel free to drop me a PM.
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Standard wolves>blue start with Q, grab either W level 2 and gank or E and farm getting W at level 3.
I use aspd reds, flat armor yellows, mr/level blues, move speed quints.
Build is w/e. Can do rejuv+pot or boots 3, can get philo hog and tankiness, philo into fast shurelyas, etc. Generally build for utility and tankiness.
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THE SECRET TO PLAY THE COW IS TO THINK LIKE A COW.
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On February 20 2012 05:27 Juddas wrote:
Sorry to bump again, but I would really like to learn how to jungle with Ali. I always just end up crushing bot and then roam the whole game, so why not Jungle?
Could you tell me your paths, runes, masteries and build please?>
Path: Usually Wolves -> Blue -> Wraiths -> Golems -> Red -> Wraiths
Blue really helps his initial clear time and it really hurts to lose it. To be honest, I don't really find that many teams willing to invade Alistar for his blue though, just because he is so strong in level 1 fights.
Skill order: Q first, always. E second, if you want to keep clearing the jungle. Otherwise, W and attempt a gank.
Starting build: Starting items are either Boot and 3 pots, or Regrowth and 1. Boots generally better for ganking and, if you get a decent pull on blue, are probably a quicker jungle clear.
Overall build: Philosopher's Stone, Heart of Gold and Boots of your choice. Can add an Avarice Blade or Kage's Lucky Pick if you want that extra GP5 because Alistar really isn't too item dependent. If you feel like you need to deal more damage in ganks or have some mana issues, then you can pick up a Sheen. Aegis and Shyrelias are useful pickups to help your team out. Afterwards, go for some premier tank items; Force of Nature and Randuins or Frozen Heart. Then, finish a Trinity Force.
Runes and Masteries: For me, it is entirely dependent on who I am jungling against. Shyvana/Udyr/Skarner/Mundo and other fast clear champions force you towards, in my opinion, less optimal builds just for the sake of not losing your entire jungle.
Against a slow enemy jungler I generally go Armor Reds and Yellows, MR per level Blues and Movespeed Quints then go 0-21-9 taking all the movespeed bonuses you can get.
This really enables Alistar to attempt some little tricks that other junglers can't really try. For example, these masteries give you the option of going behind midlane and just headbutting someone out from underneath it towards your midlaner.
I'm still not entirely happy with my build against stronger junglers; I don't feel that I get counter-jungled very hard, but, I just think that the overall route could be quicker.
At the moment, I'm using Attack Speed Reds, Armor Yellows, MR per level Blues and Ability Power Quints. Taking 9-21-0 for masteries. Taking the CDR and Magic Penetration in the Offense tree.
Hope this helps you somewhat.
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If you jungle alistar really any runes work... you might as well be using standard flat ad red/quints, armor yellow, mr blue, like you would on ranged carries or something.
When you gank you should have boots so you should be able to get lots of autoattacks on your target so it is more useful than flat ap quints.
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So is jungle alistar completely based on if you can hit every wq?
Been looking for a new hero to learn jungle, and sorta wouldnt mind learning alistar
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On March 22 2012 13:08 arb wrote:
So is jungle alistar completely based on if you can hit every wq?
Been looking for a new hero to learn jungle, and sorta wouldnt mind learning alistar
It really helps. You can always go from behind and just knock them back into the team.
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Mobility boots + shurelya's is huge on jungle Ali.
You don't ALWAYS need to engage WQ combo'd if you're fast enough. You can just run behind them, Q, then W knock them into your carry, or next to a wall if you have Vayne, etc. With enough movespeed you can get creative with W and not just use it as a gap-closer to Q.
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On February 22 2012 00:56 RoieTRS wrote:
If you jungle alistar really any runes work... you might as well be using standard flat ad red/quints, armor yellow, mr blue, like you would on ranged carries or something.
When you gank you should have boots so you should be able to get lots of autoattacks on your target so it is more useful than flat ap quints.
Yeah. I don't have a lot of rune pages so I just pick my akali rune page because it's the only rune page that has some extra ms. Ultimately, it's all about the ganks and less about the jungle from my experience. I've even skimped out on getting red because I'm too lazy.
Now, just to clarify, I'm pretty bad, but I often do well as alistar regardless. Getting counter jungled sucks though. >.>
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I find jungle Ali to be quite strong, with medium clear times and super strong ganks. I've found boots/3 to be almost imperative to start with in order to leave open the possibility of lots of early ganks, and Ali is strong enough not to need a defensive item to avoid getting too low. Wolves/blue seems almost unquestionably best, and I prefer QWQE. W is more helpful to clear times than E it seems at every camp besides wraiths, and it helps a lot more to stop counterjungling while your lanes react to what's happening.
E is more helpful later when you lose blue buff and get philo, because it allows a mana-efficient way to trigger your passive. The heal is kind of nice, but E's significance is really just to trigger passive, so I never level it until I need to (and if the game is still allowing for lots of clearing at level 14 and I'm low on mana, I sometimes choose to just level nothing temporarily).
Agree that mobility boots are really helpful. Tower diving gets a lot easier through their jungle with mobility boots gets easy because you get pretty far through the tower range before getting hit. I've also experimented with MS quints, but since I find starting boots to be so helpful I don't find them that helpful.
I'm interested in trying trinity on Ali because a lot of the time I end up with a Mallet and a bare sheen, but I don't generally find the extra damage that helpful and the guaranteed slow and tankiness seem so much better because you'll be autoattacking so infrequently. The zeal part seems really underwhelming because the attack speed and crit chance both seem pretty useless lategame.
I usually like aiming for Mobility Boots, Shurelia's, Randuin's, Mallet, Force of Nature, and Sheen, in an order completely dependent on the game. Interested in hearing other approaches to jungle Ali, because I think the options are relatively underexplored but very powerful.
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Played jungle Ali last night in regulars around 1500ish ELO. Build was Philo's->Mobility->Sheen->Trinity->Shurelya->Situational (usually Frozen Heart/Banshees/Sunfire)
I have to say, having not cracked out jungle Ali in a while, I absolutely loved it. Every game I played had an opponent playing jungle Hecarim, who has retarded mobility, is pretty much impossible to kill, and is flat out overpowered midgame. That having been said, Alistar seems to have a nice kit for dealing with Hecarim's insane engage, and I often saved the lives of my carries by knocking that punk around.
Obviously Ali doesn't have anywhere near the damage of the popular jungles- Shyvana, Mundo, Udyr, Lee Sin, but mobility boots on him are just amazing for the amount of CC and funsies you can have with him.
Obviously building the tanky items are super important to do anything mid/late game. I really wanted more damage, as a few times on ganks only I was the only one able to pursue a fleeing opponent and just couldn't dps them enough, but CDR is probably much more important.
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I have a question on support alistar; when do you buy boots? Usually on my first back I have just enough to straight up buy a philo stone and some wards (starting faerie charm, 3 wards, 2 pots). My second back (usually do to some aggressive plays) I can buy boots or start building HoG and I never really know if I should just go boots and delay HoG or rush for it then boots afterwards; Im not very experienced with supports, so having such a low gold income really screws with me :/
Also, after rushing reverie, how do you know what to build into? I usually go either aegis or start building randuins; aegis at the stage of the game you get it starts to seem like it falls off a bit, but it's obviously still good. Randuins is good for obvious reasons, but I just never know when to delay the randuins for an aegis or when to straight rush the randuins.
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On July 14 2012 17:16 Arisen wrote:
I have a question on support alistar; when do you buy boots? Usually on my first back I have just enough to straight up buy a philo stone and some wards (starting faerie charm, 3 wards, 2 pots). My second back (usually do to some aggressive plays) I can buy boots or start building HoG and I never really know if I should just go boots and delay HoG or rush for it then boots afterwards; Im not very experienced with supports, so having such a low gold income really screws with me :/
Also, after rushing reverie, how do you know what to build into? I usually go either aegis or start building randuins; aegis at the stage of the game you get it starts to seem like it falls off a bit, but it's obviously still good. Randuins is good for obvious reasons, but I just never know when to delay the randuins for an aegis or when to straight rush the randuins.
On alistar, you want boots ASAP. It should be your next item after finishing a philostone (philo>boots>HoG). You generally don't want randuins on a support alistar because even though he's tanky with his ultimate, it doesn't give him resists which is what randuins scales off of. It's also much more expensive than most other support oriented items. If no one builds an aegis, it's viable to build an aegis before your shurelya's since after the initial engage, aegis will do more than the shurelyas (CDR is awesome on alistar but so is living to see cooldowns come off again).
Generally, you want one big item (shurelya's/aegis), boots2 (or boots5 on ali), oracles if no one else is getting it, and then a second big item (shurelya's, aegis, zeke's) depending on your team composition.
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I go jungle cow. Moovespeed is key so I go:
hybrid pen reds (it actually works, offers the right pen for jungle creeps), armor yellows, mr/lvl blues, MS quints
0/21/9, focusing on Movespeed
Open boots/3->mobos/philo/hog/money sword depending on gold (if I get FB it's usually mobos)->sheen->triforce (oracles somewhere inbetween)->upgrade gp/5->situational support/defensive items or infinity edge
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EPT
