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On April 09 2012 19:36 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
How do you guys lane Ryze vs Veigar? I played a game where the jungler had it in for me, but even without that I'm not so sure how I should've beaten him. I'm 1600~ elo, Veigar was 1800.
You can harass with q early as mana allows (overload outranges veigar q and stunning you will cost him a lot of mana). He might be able to burst you at one point or another, but Ryzes core build involves a Banshees, so you are generally safe against that and you do way way more sustained damage and sustain a lot better.
Ryze has a lot going for him in that match-up, don't know what your problem is with it.
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On April 09 2012 21:59 h3r1n6 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 19:36 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
How do you guys lane Ryze vs Veigar? I played a game where the jungler had it in for me, but even without that I'm not so sure how I should've beaten him. I'm 1600~ elo, Veigar was 1800. You can harass with q early as mana allows (overload outranges veigar q and stunning you will cost him a lot of mana). He might be able to burst you at one point or another, but Ryzes core build involves a Banshees, so you are generally safe against that and you do way way more sustained damage and sustain a lot better. Ryze has a lot going for him in that match-up, don't know what your problem is with it.
Do you just start wailing on him at level 1? Do you start chrystal +2 pots, boots +3hp pots or boots 2hp1mana?
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At level 1 there is usually not much point. You have a small mana pool, spells don't do much damage for their mana cost and your auto attacks will be punished by the minions. Plus playing aggressively will make you more gankable. If you have full mana and your opponent is in range you might as well use it and throw out a spell, but he will regen his health faster than you will regen the mana at level 1.
I usually start harassing more at lvl 3, but focus on farming and only harass when you can. I pretty much always start boots+3 pots.
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General rule of thumbs with Ryze:
-vs skillshot champs, start boots3 and MS quints. Do boots2+1 if you are bad at last hitting and need the mana. Otherwise you can probably get away with sapph2.
-vs champs who try to 100-0 you, use at least MR blues and rush catalyst+negatron. Complete the full banshee if you think it'll help, but otherwise get the tear or NMM (for merc) at this point.
-Q does garbage damage at rank 1. Generally (but not always) you want to wait until 3 to harass with Q, because otherwise it's just so mana inefficient.
So while I'm not that experienced in ryze vs veigar lane, my first instincts would be to do sapph2 opener and see what type of veigar he is. Most will use their Q to farm, which lets you harass early as long as you have mana. If they're the type that harasses with Q you should try to avoiding trading with him until 3. Do not let him combo you at 6 before you buy health crystal.
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On April 10 2012 00:22 Sandster wrote:
General rule of thumbs with Ryze:
-vs skillshot champs, start boots3 and MS quints. Do boots2+1 if you are bad at last hitting and need the mana. Otherwise you can probably get away with sapph2.
-vs champs who try to 100-0 you, use at least MR blues and rush catalyst+negatron. Complete the full banshee if you think it'll help, but otherwise get the tear or NMM (for merc) at this point.
-Q does garbage damage at rank 1. Generally (but not always) you want to wait until 3 to harass with Q, because otherwise it's just so mana inefficient.
So while I'm not that experienced in ryze vs veigar lane, my first instincts would be to do sapph2 opener and see what type of veigar he is. Most will use their Q to farm, which lets you harass early as long as you have mana. If they're the type that harasses with Q you should try to avoiding trading with him until 3. Do not let him combo you at 6 before you buy health crystal.
Thanks a bunch, carrying games again. Kind of silly how I have a 80% winrate over like 30 games and still feel like I'm fluking the laning phase every game >.< The keeping harass low-key untill level 3~ is super key.
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On April 10 2012 03:41 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 00:22 Sandster wrote:
General rule of thumbs with Ryze:
-vs skillshot champs, start boots3 and MS quints. Do boots2+1 if you are bad at last hitting and need the mana. Otherwise you can probably get away with sapph2.
-vs champs who try to 100-0 you, use at least MR blues and rush catalyst+negatron. Complete the full banshee if you think it'll help, but otherwise get the tear or NMM (for merc) at this point.
-Q does garbage damage at rank 1. Generally (but not always) you want to wait until 3 to harass with Q, because otherwise it's just so mana inefficient.
So while I'm not that experienced in ryze vs veigar lane, my first instincts would be to do sapph2 opener and see what type of veigar he is. Most will use their Q to farm, which lets you harass early as long as you have mana. If they're the type that harasses with Q you should try to avoiding trading with him until 3. Do not let him combo you at 6 before you buy health crystal. Thanks a bunch, carrying games again. Kind of silly how I have a 80% winrate over like 30 games and still feel like I'm fluking the laning phase every game >.< The keeping harass low-key untill level 3~ is super key.
Always boots first imo. More health, better against harass, easier to harass with, better against ganks, easier to support ganks with. Movespeed so important in laning.
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On April 09 2012 22:51 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 21:59 h3r1n6 wrote:On April 09 2012 19:36 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
How do you guys lane Ryze vs Veigar? I played a game where the jungler had it in for me, but even without that I'm not so sure how I should've beaten him. I'm 1600~ elo, Veigar was 1800. You can harass with q early as mana allows (overload outranges veigar q and stunning you will cost him a lot of mana). He might be able to burst you at one point or another, but Ryzes core build involves a Banshees, so you are generally safe against that and you do way way more sustained damage and sustain a lot better. Ryze has a lot going for him in that match-up, don't know what your problem is with it. Do you just start wailing on him at level 1? Do you start chrystal +2 pots, boots +3hp pots or boots 2hp1mana?
I'd say wait for level 3. Level 1 q is hardly good. You can start your harass at level 3. Port back, rush tear and spam away.
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OP is horridly outdated, and every guide online that I find conflicts with the others. What is the general mastery/rune setup nowadays?
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Seems pretty varied. Like the minimal requirements is the 9 in offense and 9 in utility but after that I've seen 9/9/12, 9/12/9, and 9/0/21. Shouldn't you just be taking the mastery pages depending on your lane opponent? Same with runes. I usually see people using mpen marks, mr glyphs, and ms quints but that varies also.
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On April 20 2012 04:39 koreasilver wrote:
Seems pretty varied. Like the minimal requirements is the 9 in offense and 9 in utility but after that I've seen 9/9/12, 9/12/9, and 9/0/21. Shouldn't you just be taking the mastery pages depending on your lane opponent? Same with runes. I usually see people using mpen marks, mr glyphs, and ms quints but that varies also.
are mana glyphs (flat or per level) a terrible idea? i read a guide that had them and was wondering if people actually did that
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After experimenting with it and playing lots of Ryze, I generally use defensive masteries, which I feel help you best to survive against aggressive lanes (literally 50% of my matchups are vs cassio) and making you more tanky for lategame, while still giving you cdr and movementspeed (9/21/0 or 9/18/3, juggernaut is really tempting, but i often end up with mercs anyway for tenacity and 200 mana on a 4000 mana pool is still 5% more lategame). Not having buff duration is a huge annoyance though and I always wish I had it along with the mana regen.When I went for 9/9/12 I was missing the cdr and with 9/0/21 I feel I am too squishy.
Ryze is quite flexible anyway. Scarra uses 9/0/21, which most people use. Jiji uses 0/21/9 I believe.The most standard would be 9/0/21 and magic pen reds, flat mr blues and movementspeed quints. Yellows are up in the air and can be manaregen(/lvl), mana/lvl, health/lvl or flat armor.
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try to 100-0 you
What does that mean?
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On April 20 2012 09:31 Sufficiency wrote:What does that mean?
burst you down from full or near full hp to nothing. 100% hp to 0% hp.
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On April 20 2012 09:33 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 09:31 Sufficiency wrote:try to 100-0 you What does that mean? burst you down from full or near full hp to nothing. 100% hp to 0% hp.
I see.
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On April 20 2012 04:55 ishboh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 04:39 koreasilver wrote:
Seems pretty varied. Like the minimal requirements is the 9 in offense and 9 in utility but after that I've seen 9/9/12, 9/12/9, and 9/0/21. Shouldn't you just be taking the mastery pages depending on your lane opponent? Same with runes. I usually see people using mpen marks, mr glyphs, and ms quints but that varies also. are mana glyphs (flat or per level) a terrible idea? i read a guide that had them and was wondering if people actually did that
I don't really play Ryze but Ryze has a noticeably weak early game and I imagine that he would get screwed even harder than he already get screwed in a lot of matchups if you decide not to take mr glyphs. Mr glyphs really help a lot and I've taken mr quints in a couple matchups too to help him survive his early game against some nasty lane opponents. You really get all the mana you need from items, and Ryze isn't a champ that unloads his spells then hangs back either, so I imagine mr glyphs are better in trades anyway.
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Has anyone played Ryze yet after the changes? I'm not really shure if its an overall buff or nerf. I mean most of the shit is buffs but the range nerf on Q probably really hurts.
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On May 04 2012 21:23 Woony wrote:
Has anyone played Ryze yet after the changes? I'm not really shure if its an overall buff or nerf. I mean most of the shit is buffs but the range nerf on Q probably really hurts.
Q range and snare reduction are the biggest real changes. I've been experimenting with a quicker RoA (before glacial) and it is similar.
Thinking of maybe doing a 2x AA build sometime, but haven't had any long games for that.
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United States8298 Posts
On April 20 2012 10:03 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 04:55 ishboh wrote:On April 20 2012 04:39 koreasilver wrote:
Seems pretty varied. Like the minimal requirements is the 9 in offense and 9 in utility but after that I've seen 9/9/12, 9/12/9, and 9/0/21. Shouldn't you just be taking the mastery pages depending on your lane opponent? Same with runes. I usually see people using mpen marks, mr glyphs, and ms quints but that varies also. are mana glyphs (flat or per level) a terrible idea? i read a guide that had them and was wondering if people actually did that I don't really play Ryze but Ryze has a noticeably weak early game and I imagine that he would get screwed even harder than he already get screwed in a lot of matchups if you decide not to take mr glyphs. Mr glyphs really help a lot and I've taken mr quints in a couple matchups too to help him survive his early game against some nasty lane opponents. You really get all the mana you need from items, and Ryze isn't a champ that unloads his spells then hangs back either, so I imagine mr glyphs are better in trades anyway.
I do mana glyphs in my Ryze page and I feel like the extra early game Q used to help a lot. But with MR being more and more common, I agree with this.
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Is it any more useful to build AP on him now? Useful enough that I should consider getting a couple straight AP items?
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On May 05 2012 05:29 Schmieds wrote:
Is it any more useful to build AP on him now? Useful enough that I should consider getting a couple straight AP items?
Like WotA, Void staff and RoA? Yeah.
Ryze still wicked fucking strong really irritating when he is on the opposing team. Wtb nerfs
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EPT
