EPT[Champion] Ryze - Page 20
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On March 20 2012 06:43 OnceKing wrote: Although he isn't played so much anymore, Zilean does very well versus Ryze because of the large range differential in their Qs. You're thinking of Annie. Overload range is only 25 less than Bomb, you can't reliably land it without retaliation. Silences or just all around stun-locks are your best bet against Ryze. He will die very quickly if focused while he isn't casting spells (unless he went Rod/Warmogs). Ignite is very important to use on him when he is casting, especially when he uses ultimate. Ryze is also slow, low range, has no repositioning skill and needs vision of his target to cast spells. Big displacement spells like Janna, Gragas and Tristana ultimates cause him a lot of grief, as does Graves' smokescreen. Countering him in lane will also weaken him significantly. Cassiopeia, Xerath, LeBlanc and Middlesticks all take a dump on him. | ||
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Elite00fm
United States548 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On March 20 2012 14:18 Elite00fm wrote: why doesn't ryze get much play as solo top? He wrecks melee champs, and can just sit in lane and farm to become ridiculous. I've seen several pro teams run Ryze solo top. I think he doesn't get run more because he does pretty well mid and Swain, Vladimir, and Kennen are all stronger solo tops if you wanted to run a double AP set up. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On March 20 2012 14:18 Elite00fm wrote: why doesn't ryze get much play as solo top? He wrecks melee champs, and can just sit in lane and farm to become ridiculous. the no escape thing hurts pretty bad top in my experiences with it. some dude with a gap closer can just cc you for days and blow you up before you can get to safety when you end up on his side of the lane. | ||
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SMD
Canada627 Posts
On March 20 2012 13:35 Alzadar wrote: You're thinking of Annie. Overload range is only 25 less than Bomb, you can't reliably land it without retaliation. Silences or just all around stun-locks are your best bet against Ryze. He will die very quickly if focused while he isn't casting spells (unless he went Rod/Warmogs). Ignite is very important to use on him when he is casting, especially when he uses ultimate. Ryze is also slow, low range, has no repositioning skill and needs vision of his target to cast spells. Big displacement spells like Janna, Gragas and Tristana ultimates cause him a lot of grief, as does Graves' smokescreen. Countering him in lane will also weaken him significantly. Cassiopeia, Xerath, LeBlanc and Middlesticks all take a dump on him. I haven't played against cassopiea enough to know my limitations against her, why is she such a good counter? Xerath would be becasue of his range, but he's not often played. I've played a few leblanc's, and if you can play safe early, you outscale him, he has crazy burst, but in my experience the logner the game goes the better the matchup beomes for you I usually build ryze tankier, i usually go tear into ROA, then its situational as to the game state whether i grab a negatron into banshee or armor into frozen heart. | ||
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danana
United States321 Posts
On March 21 2012 12:02 SMD wrote: I haven't played against cassopiea enough to know my limitations against her, why is she such a good counter? Xerath would be becasue of his range, but he's not often played. I've played a few leblanc's, and if you can play safe early, you outscale him, he has crazy burst, but in my experience the logner the game goes the better the matchup beomes for you I usually build ryze tankier, i usually go tear into ROA, then its situational as to the game state whether i grab a negatron into banshee or armor into frozen heart. I think it's the combination of superior range and pushing power... it feels like Cassio can do whatever she wants and Ryze can't do anything back. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On March 21 2012 12:02 SMD wrote: I haven't played against cassopiea enough to know my limitations against her, why is she such a good counter? Xerath would be becasue of his range, but he's not often played. I've played a few leblanc's, and if you can play safe early, you outscale him, he has crazy burst, but in my experience the logner the game goes the better the matchup beomes for you I usually build ryze tankier, i usually go tear into ROA, then its situational as to the game state whether i grab a negatron into banshee or armor into frozen heart. Cassiopeia outranges Ryze, so he has a hard time even approaching her. She can push the lane easily, causing him trouble CSing early. Rune Prison is completely useless against her, she will keep combo'ing you while rooted. Ryze has to be relatively immobile while casting spells, giving Cassiopeia a chance to land her Q, and once she does that she outdamages Ryze by a country mile, it isn't even close. Her ultimate is very very strong 1v1 and 1v2, meaning that even with jungler help you'll have trouble in the lane. Most importantly, Cass is just as amazing late game as Ryze is, so it's not like he'll outscale her in the same way he does LeBlanc, or Xerath to a degree. The LeBlanc lane can be survived, barely. I have a pure MR page I use only in that match-up. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On March 21 2012 13:41 Alzadar wrote: Cassiopeia outranges Ryze, so he has a hard time even approaching her. She can push the lane easily, causing him trouble CSing early. Rune Prison is completely useless against her, she will keep combo'ing you while rooted. Ryze has to be relatively immobile while casting spells, giving Cassiopeia a chance to land her Q, and once she does that she outdamages Ryze by a country mile, it isn't even close. Her ultimate is very very strong 1v1 and 1v2, meaning that even with jungler help you'll have trouble in the lane. Most importantly, Cass is just as amazing late game as Ryze is, so it's not like he'll outscale her in the same way he does LeBlanc, or Xerath to a degree. The LeBlanc lane can be survived, barely. I have a pure MR page I use only in that match-up. After having a chance to counterpick Ryze with Cass yesterday, I think it's very obvious and easy to exploit if you try it yourself. Pretty much every weakness of Ryze is exploited by Cass in lane, and Cass has no weakness that Ryze could exploit there. - Ryze cannot cast any spell without allowing Cass to hit him with her Q. Ryze stands still when he casts, which makes it trivial for Cass to hit with a Q (then EEEE). This is the single biggest reason Cass dominates Ryze in lane. If you try to harrass, she'll land every spell and outdamage you easily, since her Q/E cooldowns are really low. If you try to last hit with spells, she'll poke you with a Q and you can't do anything about it. - Starting at level 1, Cass pushes the lane faster than Ryze, and more mana-efficiently than Ryze. Until 6, Ryze can't do anything about this and will lose cs to tower if Cass wants him to. For the same reason, Ryze can't afford to harrass Cass, he runs out of mana too fast and then can't farm. While you're OOM trying to last hit under tower, Cass can roam and gank lanes. - Ryze cannot kite Cass at all. Rune prison range isn't enough to avoid being hit by Q while snared. - Cass can kite Ryze all day long. W to slow him, or even better, Q in his path and you're faster than Ryze. If Ryze tries to chase you, he can't catch up: Q gives you a movement speed buff, plus it's delayed, so you can damage him from outside rune prison range (while still outrunning him). Edit: I also played Ryze vs LB yesterday. The LB was playing badly and still made laning a terror, but it was much easier for me than Ryze vs Cass. If you can play it safe vs LB at the cost of CS, you won the lane. If you do the same against Cass, you lost the lane (IMO). | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Your only hope is to W her in place for a jungle gank and turn your back to her ult, then hope you can 2v1 her. And if they countergank you're just screwed. I don't know how other Ryze players handle it, but I feel you almost have to run MR blues and MS quints, rush negatron, and tell your jungle you NEED pressure early. Cassio is the hardest counter for him I can think of, and I always pick Cassio if they pick Ryze. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On March 22 2012 04:03 Sandster wrote: Post-6 it's even worse, especially if she gets revolver/wota. If you ever W her 1v1 you're in range for her R>Q>E>W>E + ignite and straight up 100-0 you. If she has 2+ points in E, a single Q landing on you means half your health bar gone, and again if you turn around to W she will ult and kill you. Even if you miraculously stay close in cs and not die in lane (a feat in itself), she would shove your lane and roam much more easily. Your only hope is to W her in place for a jungle gank and turn your back to her ult, then hope you can 2v1 her. And if they countergank you're just screwed. I don't know how other Ryze players handle it, but I feel you almost have to run MR blues and MS quints, rush negatron, and tell your jungle you NEED pressure early. Cassio is the hardest counter for him I can think of, and I always pick Cassio if they pick Ryze. Totally agree. Like others suggested, I now always ban Cass if I first-pick Ryze, and if I'm second pick and don't know their mid, an Cass isn't banned, I won't pick Ryze. With LB, even if a little fed she's not that threatening in late-game fights compared to Ryze. This is not at all true of Cass. | ||
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NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Netherlands1242 Posts
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noggnoskill
United States97 Posts
Roam, roam, roam to bot, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, take dragon for free. If you're unable to do anything to your opponent in lane it doesn't mean you're useless. Try to give other lanes an advantage where yours would mean nothing because GALIO NEVER EVER TAKES DAMAGE FROM ANYTHING LOL. Galio mid gets manhandled by any sort of AD mid if you're looking to counterpick, though. | ||
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On April 02 2012 23:47 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: Just got manhandled by a Galio as Ryze. Didn't help that their Twitch killed me at level 2 >.< How do you guys lane vs Galio? If Ryze gets countered, what would you lane vs a Galio instead? If you get ganked and killed level 2 it doesn't really matter who you are laning against lol. Galio doesn't counter Ryze, he can outpush you early on but so can a lot of champions. Once you get blue it just becomes a farmfest, you can't kill him, he can't kill you. On April 03 2012 00:00 noggnoskill wrote: Oh, no, I've got counterpicked mid, what do I do? Roam, roam, roam to bot, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, take dragon for free. If you're unable to do anything to your opponent in lane it doesn't mean you're useless. Try to give other lanes an advantage where yours would mean nothing because GALIO NEVER EVER TAKES DAMAGE FROM ANYTHING LOL. Wat, how is that gonna work? Galio pushes way harder than Ryze, unless Galio is brainafk you're never gonna get free ganks bot. Also Galio with ult is a way better earlygame bottom ganker than Ryze, the last thing you wanna do is provoke some sort of fight. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On April 03 2012 00:00 noggnoskill wrote: Oh, no, I've got counterpicked mid, what do I do? Roam, roam, roam to bot, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, take dragon for free. If you're unable to do anything to your opponent in lane it doesn't mean you're useless. Try to give other lanes an advantage where yours would mean nothing because GALIO NEVER EVER TAKES DAMAGE FROM ANYTHING LOL. Galio mid gets manhandled by any sort of AD mid if you're looking to counterpick, though. against a galio, there's no way you can push out hard enough to be able to roam without just losing your tower. Strong pushers can get away with that crap because there's limited threat to their tower, ryze is not a strong pusher. So, if you just peace from mid, it's actually really easy for galio to either follow you down bot, or just take your tower. | ||
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noggnoskill
United States97 Posts
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
Ryze should avoid laning agaist Galio as much as possible, because Galio is as tanky as Ryze and does a ton more damage earlygame. | ||
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noggnoskill
United States97 Posts
Obviously Galio has something he can do about anything Ryze can do, that's why he's the go-to counterpick for Ryze. When you get counterpicked, you either outplay your opponent or you're behind. You can't sit in lane against him and expect to get ahead. I'm not saying you can easily beat Galio with Ryze, I'm saying you need to try to make plays so you aren't worthless for the majority of the game. | ||
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NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Netherlands1242 Posts
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