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[Champion] Udyr - Page 47

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unjugon
Profile Joined March 2011
Spain119 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 18:10:54
January 18 2013 18:09 GMT
#921
You are right, I give you another 650 gold to add to Locket+Negatron.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 18:21:59
January 18 2013 18:19 GMT
#922
On January 19 2013 03:03 unjugon wrote:
Or a bit later you could have Warmog´s+Negatron and completely laugh at magic damage.

HP regen is important in the same way Innervating Locket was important. HP regen IS important on Udyr.

Innervating locket used to give your entire team the HP regen. It also provided mana regen. It also cost like nothing compared to Warmog's. Finally, when it was remade/nerfed around Sona patch, it still provided 50 hp over 2 seconds. In the midgame, you can expect to have an HP pool of around 2400-2600 with Warmog's which provides 14-15 hp over 2 seconds

Locket provides HP regen too!

Someone asked a bunch of pages ago, and unless I'm really bad at math Udyr's passive work on total resists rather than bonus resists which makes it almost as cool as Garen W.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
January 18 2013 19:07 GMT
#923
On January 19 2013 03:19 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 03:03 unjugon wrote:
Or a bit later you could have Warmog´s+Negatron and completely laugh at magic damage.

HP regen is important in the same way Innervating Locket was important. HP regen IS important on Udyr.

Innervating locket used to give your entire team the HP regen. It also provided mana regen. It also cost like nothing compared to Warmog's. Finally, when it was remade/nerfed around Sona patch, it still provided 50 hp over 2 seconds. In the midgame, you can expect to have an HP pool of around 2400-2600 with Warmog's which provides 14-15 hp over 2 seconds

Locket provides HP regen too!

Someone asked a bunch of pages ago, and unless I'm really bad at math Udyr's passive work on total resists rather than bonus resists which makes it almost as cool as Garen W.

I think this is a trap a lot of people fall into. They see that a kit works with something and they go overboard.

Udyr has a shield: that mean's we should only build resists
Rammus has armor: that mean's we should only build health

No. You build what you need. Health in the mid game is more efficient than resists at giving you EHP or survivability and MR is better when a lot of people have magic pen. Udyr has a great shield but that doesn't mean Warmogs is that much worse. As a single item its still awesome.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
January 18 2013 19:17 GMT
#924
If I'm getting spirit of the ancient golem and boots, building warmogs basically makes zero sense and all the other good resist items (randuins, locket, bulwark) give tons of hp.
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
January 18 2013 19:28 GMT
#925
Locket is more cost efficient and easier to buy for the jungler in those close games where you need to scrap out every little edge you can.
If your team complelty dumps on the other team and you can afford to buy 2 major items before the other team is a threat, by all means, build warmogs. hell, buy 2 cause the item is op right?
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
Eishi_Ki
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1667 Posts
February 10 2013 05:25 GMT
#926
So what do we reckon for Diamond's runes then? Taking that lv3 Dragon must have meant no points in bear plus he picked up super fast Madred's in terms of items. AS Quints as well as AS Marks?
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
February 10 2013 05:35 GMT
#927
On February 10 2013 14:25 Eishi_Ki wrote:
So what do we reckon for Diamond's runes then? Taking that lv3 Dragon must have meant no points in bear plus he picked up super fast Madred's in terms of items. AS Quints as well as AS Marks?


No idea on his setup but I watched his jungle path very closely because I didn't trust the pick. He started wolves > blue, smited blue, went to wraiths then red then b. Upgraded his machete to wriggles, stayed to buy a mana pot (had 2 health pots remaining), walked to dragon pit, flashed over the wall, and snuck it.
Hey! How you doin'?
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
February 10 2013 05:44 GMT
#928
On February 10 2013 14:35 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2013 14:25 Eishi_Ki wrote:
So what do we reckon for Diamond's runes then? Taking that lv3 Dragon must have meant no points in bear plus he picked up super fast Madred's in terms of items. AS Quints as well as AS Marks?


No idea on his setup but I watched his jungle path very closely because I didn't trust the pick. He started wolves > blue, smited blue, went to wraiths then red then b. Upgraded his machete to wriggles, stayed to buy a mana pot (had 2 health pots remaining), walked to dragon pit, flashed over the wall, and snuck it.

Holy.. someone just did this in a pro game? I haven't seen the video but aspd marks make sense to me, and so does 2 points in turtle one in tiger. Level 3 madreds... to dragon. Wow.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Eishi_Ki
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1667 Posts
February 10 2013 06:57 GMT
#929
On February 10 2013 14:44 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2013 14:35 Zdrastochye wrote:
On February 10 2013 14:25 Eishi_Ki wrote:
So what do we reckon for Diamond's runes then? Taking that lv3 Dragon must have meant no points in bear plus he picked up super fast Madred's in terms of items. AS Quints as well as AS Marks?


No idea on his setup but I watched his jungle path very closely because I didn't trust the pick. He started wolves > blue, smited blue, went to wraiths then red then b. Upgraded his machete to wriggles, stayed to buy a mana pot (had 2 health pots remaining), walked to dragon pit, flashed over the wall, and snuck it.

Holy.. someone just did this in a pro game? I haven't seen the video but aspd marks make sense to me, and so does 2 points in turtle one in tiger. Level 3 madreds... to dragon. Wow.


He didn't go Tiger, it was definitely some combination of Turtle/Phoenix. I suspect 1/2 but it could have been 2/1
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5710 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 07:25:55
February 10 2013 07:11 GMT
#930
Been playing Udyr top a couple games this season and he feels incredibly strong. Stronger than S2 imo. I played him alot S2, mostly in jungle and against certain champs toplane. Whenever I play Udyr top I usually just FP since he's so safe and isn't hard countered by anyone but if I had to pick him to counter people these would be my best choices.

Champs I'd pick Udyr against: Nidalee, Lee, Irelia, Jax, Darius, Rumble, Tyrn.
You can trade effectively against all those people and even outright ignore Nidalee/Rumble once you get a sceptor.

Basically you become an unkillable wall in lane with maxed turtle stance and a VS. You can literally just auto creeps all day and people can't do dmg to you with their autos. Max tiger stance 2nd or first depending on the champ and if you're ahead or not. The burst from tiger stance is all front loaded and 3/4 of the people you fight are going to not realize how much dmg is actually does (and it's fucking magical dmg, they will build armor) and you will rip them a new one.

Cloth + 5pots or Flask + ward + pots or Rejuv Beads + ward + pots. Usually cloth.

If you started cloth thats going to be used to build a Tabi, if not you're going Merc for boots, maybe even swiftness if you srsly think you might need it.

Tabi/Merc, Hydra, Warmogs, Zephyr (if you didn't get Merc, 3/4 times I get Tabi/Zephyr), Randuins, and TF/Mallet - for my end game build. Almost forgot about Visage, it's a must have item if you are going against a team with at least 2 AP carries. Swap out Zephyr for Visage since you will alrdy be getting Merc for the MR and Tenacity, also probably means getting TF over Mallet as you might want slightly more dmg and you are alrdy getting enough HP from Visage.

Usually a sceptor rush with Tabi and rush into a Hydra. You have a ton of inate tankiness with max'd turtle stance and his passive which gives 12%+ Armor/MR so you just want some dmg. Phage and Warmogs are next and then into a Zephyr. If you're fed just rush right into Zephyr after Hydra. You should be chunking people for half their HP easy with a basic combo. (Bear stun, Tiger proc, auto, auto, Hydra proc, auto) so building tanky isn't even needed yet as you alrdy have godlike sustain.

Hate Udyr jungle, feels so slow and the majority of junglers nowadays have better ganks. Don't see a reason to use him over Vi, Hecarim, Xin, Amumu, Olaf, etc.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 12:56:38
February 10 2013 12:48 GMT
#931
Why hydra?

Udyr top isn't strictly worse than udyr jungle now because trinity is quite cheap again and ad costs got shaved down a bit which is alright for tiger.
You probably should be going 2 dblades into locket/trinity or something. Tabi zephyr is probably not terrible but I dont see the point. Udyr doesn't really need more attack speed though it's not bad, trinity is definitely the better buy.

You could always pick udyr top vs just about everything btw.
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
February 10 2013 13:28 GMT
#932
On February 10 2013 14:35 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2013 14:25 Eishi_Ki wrote:
So what do we reckon for Diamond's runes then? Taking that lv3 Dragon must have meant no points in bear plus he picked up super fast Madred's in terms of items. AS Quints as well as AS Marks?


No idea on his setup but I watched his jungle path very closely because I didn't trust the pick. He started wolves > blue, smited blue, went to wraiths then red then b. Upgraded his machete to wriggles, stayed to buy a mana pot (had 2 health pots remaining), walked to dragon pit, flashed over the wall, and snuck it.

Has anyone been able to replicate this, I haven't been able to in customs yet :\
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
YouGotNothin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States907 Posts
February 10 2013 18:07 GMT
#933
On February 10 2013 22:28 mordek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2013 14:35 Zdrastochye wrote:
On February 10 2013 14:25 Eishi_Ki wrote:
So what do we reckon for Diamond's runes then? Taking that lv3 Dragon must have meant no points in bear plus he picked up super fast Madred's in terms of items. AS Quints as well as AS Marks?


No idea on his setup but I watched his jungle path very closely because I didn't trust the pick. He started wolves > blue, smited blue, went to wraiths then red then b. Upgraded his machete to wriggles, stayed to buy a mana pot (had 2 health pots remaining), walked to dragon pit, flashed over the wall, and snuck it.

Has anyone been able to replicate this, I haven't been able to in customs yet :\


I watched the game again, and he went 2 in turtle and 1 in phoenix. He also got a little bit of help from ez at the end of the drag, but I must say it looked like he would have done it by himself though since he had about 200 hp when finished.
I got nothin'...
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
February 10 2013 19:51 GMT
#934
I have tried it in customs and I usually die right about the time Ez shows up. definitely doable if bot is prepared to quickly come over and finish the last half since its so unexpected.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5710 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 22:41:10
February 10 2013 22:40 GMT
#935
On February 10 2013 21:48 Slayer91 wrote:
Why hydra?

Udyr top isn't strictly worse than udyr jungle now because trinity is quite cheap again and ad costs got shaved down a bit which is alright for tiger.
You probably should be going 2 dblades into locket/trinity or something. Tabi zephyr is probably not terrible but I dont see the point. Udyr doesn't really need more attack speed though it's not bad, trinity is definitely the better buy.

You could always pick udyr top vs just about everything btw.


Of course you cna pick him vs anything but I just found those champions to be easier than most.

Loved Hydra for the wave clear/split push, massive amounts of lifesteal and adds some burst to his alrdy decent dmg.

I'm not a fan of dblades unless I'm going adc bot, and then I only one early game. Might start getting TF earlier now because they basically took away the combine cost.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
Thereisnosaurus
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Australia1822 Posts
February 10 2013 23:20 GMT
#936
Still trying to figure this guy out in S3. The difficulty now is in itemising early game MR on him, you can get super tanky through iceborn+ancient golem I'm almost inclined to make abyssal my core MR item when going phoenix udy. Wits is still great, but it doesn't scale phoenix quite as hard.

That said, phoenix is nowhere near as good as it used to be, tiger is definitely the go to stance for early jungling meaning you need to transition into phoenix a bit later.
Poisonous Sheep counter Hydras
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
February 10 2013 23:35 GMT
#937
There's no reason to get pheonix stance if not for jungling.
unjugon
Profile Joined March 2011
Spain119 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-18 11:44:21
February 18 2013 11:34 GMT
#938
I have been trying a different approach on (jungle) Udyr. Everyone on this thread has always considered -for half a second- leveling phoenix and tiger early on, and then probably thought "meh, it would never work". But I think it might just be viable if we focus a bit on spell vamp/lifesteal. What am I saying exactly? I have been trying the new Spirit of Spectral Wraith recently and the results have been decent. This kinda works (2 wins outta 2 so far but I am still testing) because:

- The item cost-efficiency is kinda through the roof after the buffs. You might not use the spell vamp to the extent a pure mage would use it, but you might not need to.
- Udyr loves some mana regen early as well as cooldown reduction. The AP is ok.
- Udyr is always in the fray but has no reliable burst; he normally wins by outlasting opponents. In other words, he is always making use of that spell vamp.
- Smite a big minion or monster for 350+ heal in a pinch. Tell that to Soraka. Every 40-45 seconds. Now again, this isn´t impressive except for the fact that we are talking about Udyr, not your typical mage with 30 magic resist.
- It´s funny when you think about it, but if you level tiger and phoenix early you need no damage items to be a threat! And since you get a bunch of free damage you are actually making use of the spell vamp! Not to mention you melt towers as well.
- The improved damage to monsters coupled with early high level tiger and phoenix means you melt the jungle throughout the game with no damage items.
- Leveling Tiger without damage items has always felt ineficient. However, with spell vamp making use of single target damage and high level phoenix making use of the attack speed buff, it feels much better.

The build I have been using is something like:

- 0/9/21 masteries, taking improved smite and lifesteal/spell vamp masteries.
- Attack speed reds, spell vamp quints, armor yellows, magic resist/lvl blues. Spell vamp quints are probably not optimal, but we can do without move speed thanks to 21 points in utility masteries. Might try lifesteal quints. I suspect flat AD might be best.
- Level Tiger to lvl 5 asap, 1 point in Bear, and level Turtle and Phoenix as you prefer. Good point here is that even 1-2 points in phoenix help you clear the jungle much faster due to the AoE on the small monsters.
- Doran Blade start, because we can. I get 0 attack damage after this. Tiger/Phoenix/Tiger/Bear/Tiger/Turtle to start. You can start with Phoenix also.
- Doran Blade, Spirit of the Spectral Wraith, Treads, Visage, Chain Vest as core for items. I am still thinking about the armor item. Iceborn or Frozen Heart would put us way above the cooldown reduction limit. I´d go for Randuin´s probably since we might need the slow. Note that the only way such a build could work is by using high level Tiger and Phoenix in tandem.
- Since the build might leave you vulnerable to burst/stun (you are more of a lifestealing tank), I am testing Barrier as summoner.

Probably not optimal and should not be used by new Udyr players, but it´s very fun.
Tommie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
China658 Posts
February 21 2013 19:44 GMT
#939
Hey, I've been playing Udyr for a while and I absolutely love him despite him being kind of old fashioned ( no gapclosers/escapes ). I play him both solo top and in the jungle. I like how he can outsustain and outtrade many popular champions in the top lane. I usually build a few tank items and merc threads or tabi vs heavy ad first and then I get a big AD item, usually BT. I build BT because its the biggest AD item and the Q procs scales really nice off of AD. If I am split pushing I build merc threads + some tank and I get the speed enchantment really early. You can finish off with a Zephyr if you want to be totally unchaseable but it's usually better to get a BT first.
If I am up against a lot of magic damage I tend to build Warmogs+Wit's end. If I'm up against heavy AD it's gonna be tabi Sunfire BT and then a Warmogs or a Randuins.

My favourite lane is when I'm up against an AD champ with short range, and then I usually get a Sunfire cape, Merc/Tabi and BT+ Warmogs/Randuins. Against Magic damage I go Warmogs, Wit's end, Merc threads and Either a BT or a Randuins.I dont like building AS on Udyr since he already gets massive attack speed boosts from his Q and from his passive. If you don't build any damage but pure as you'll notice. The reason Wit's end works so well on Udyr is because with his attack speed boost you can proc the passive very often. Udyr has attack speed and Wit's end synergises with AS, not the other way around ( this is a mistake some people make ).

I level Q first if I can go aggro but I prefer getting W, maybe a single point in Q if the opponent is getting too confident. I get my E before level 6, usually around 2/3 but I try to make sure that I have it when my jungler comes for a gank.

Level 1 is when Udyr is very strong but he is so unbelievably predictable. If comes towards you just run, that's it. I prefer starting defensive and going really aggro when I have a big defensive item and at least basic boots and I can stance dance, which is around level 8-9 usually. Once you build a BT on top of that you can take on pretty much any champion in a straight up close range fight. In teamfights I tend to protect carries more than that I'm diving the enemies' carry, mostly because it's so easy to kite Udyr and he doesn't have any initiation. If anyone dives my carry he get stunned and gets a massive q proc on his ass. Only when that has been taken care of I go and look for whatever juicy meet I can find. Just run around, pop Randuins, stun them all and give them all a Q proc.

I pick Udyr when I see:
Nidalee
Akali ( skill based lane but in teamfights it's nice )
Anything AD melee.
Anything that begins with 'kat' and ends with 'arina' ( stun so much fun )
DONT PICK UDYR AGAINST:
Teemo
Vladimir
Teemo
Vladimir
Teemo
Vladimir
Being a ho doesn't automatically make you "immoral" or a bad person, but it does make you a ho.
DrunkenOne
Profile Joined August 2012
United States302 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-12 17:42:14
March 12 2013 17:40 GMT
#940
Can you still preload tiger at lvl 1 in fountain to get off 2x tiger procs? With 14+ in offensive, elixir start, ad reds/quints his lvl 1 burst is retarded, he could blow someone up with a double tiger proc + ignite at lvl 1. Not sure why udyr top fell so out of favor, i guess mobility creep + op minion block? Botrk solves a lot of his problems and has to be huge huge damage with his Q burst and the bonus attack speed. Also cheaper triforce gotta help too. Might try this later and report back.
Yarr?
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