EPTSion Rework
[Champion] Sion - Page 12
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Sion Rework | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
And is it just me or is Banner of Command THE item to rush against ap tops? | ||
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Lost My Will To Live
Botswana601 Posts
What I see is 200 health, 40 MR, 10% CDR, and some health regen whereas you could have gotten something much cheaper such as Spirit VIsage that gives you better stats. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On January 14 2015 18:32 Osmoses wrote:Has anyone tried building him full or hybrid AP in top? Maxing E in lane is already very strong, but as it has an AP ratio I was thinking maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to build something like RoA or Rylais as a first item against ranged squishies such as Gnar and Liss, both of whom are prominent in top these days. I imagine RoA is okay, Rylais probably doesn't do a whole lot for him considering he already has a pretty big slow and his abilities are all on fairly long cooldowns, and its not like he's spacing them out much, so the slow on Rylais doesn't do a whole lot. It's not like his ratios are amazing and they're still split between AD and AP, and he already does % max health on his shield and his passive, so building tankier seems the way to go. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On January 15 2015 03:10 Lost My Will To Live wrote: Convince me Banner of Command isn't a complete trash item to rush against AP tops. What I see is 200 health, 40 MR, 10% CDR, and some health regen whereas you could have gotten something much cheaper such as Spirit VIsage that gives you better stats. Against double ap you're likely to get aegis anyway, and the active basically makes them unable to waveclear or even defend tower. | ||
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Nohiko
71 Posts
I'm curious why people tend to build Spirit Visage on him (especially top)? I guess the CDR is helpful if you aren't going to be CDR capped, but I always build Banshees rather than SV. The spell shield can be immensely helpful to land your Q after you've ulted into a fight, as often people will panic-drop their CC on you and I find that getting knocked out of the initial Q after your ult is really detrimental to your in-fight presence (even with the only 2s CD). While I said he was a decent jungler, I think it really depends on the enemy team comp. Ganking laners like Yasuo, Lucian, Leblanc (people that have low-CD dashes) can be a nightmare if not played properly. However, for champs with either no dash or a long CD dash, his ganks tend to be pretty good pre-6 and excellent post-6. Have you guys experimented with 1 damage item as a 5th or 6th item? I really like the extra power once mid-late comes around. I've tried a couple, but end up build Frozen Mallet most of the time, occasionally Maw. Mallet is fucking hilarious with your passive, and decent/good the rest of the time. If you land your ult on their ADC/AP your lock down is immense. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On January 15 2015 05:54 Osmoses wrote: Yeah I see no reason to get spirit visage, I always get banshees. With full build my two damage items are usually gauntlet and frozen mallet. Both are legit while alive and both are just fantastic when dead, the speedburst triggers gauntlet :D you really shouldn't build gauntlet and mallet, stacking slows get reduced effect and I don't even know why you would need that much slow anyway. If you can't stick on a 40% slowed target then you are probably CCed yourself. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Nohiko
71 Posts
Note: The colors are only to help distinguish between lines. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/G066IlB.png) All these paths should be possible when done from the mirrored side (e.g. the two pink lines going from Blue Base to Baron are possible when going from Red Base to Dragon). Since the map is mirrored, I only drew one of each path to aid the readability of the map. If you approach a wall at a shallow enough angle, Sion will be sharply redirected along the wall rather than crashing into it. Non of paths in the above image require effect, but several are made easier by making use of this. I suspect that there are paths that are made possible only by using this, but have yet to find any that I can replicate consistently. | ||
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Nohiko
71 Posts
The downside are that you spend 500g on damage at a point in the game where you only have 1 or 1.5 items, so you are relying more on your innate tankiness to push you through this 'tank trough'. If the other team comp forces you into MR at/before 2nd item, it seems not worth it to forgo CDR and mana for the extra damage Sunfire provides. My recent build has been: Cheese a camp, start Ruby+Rejuv+2pot, rush catalyst, then itemize whatever resists you need that game, then finish Righteous Glory once I need some HP to back up the armor/MR stacking. Usually I'll fit a Glacial in soon after the catalyst. Catalyst solves the mana problem in lane entirely, and Righteous Glory gives so much HP that I don't feel bad if when it is my only HP item along with FH/Null-magic or something similar. Something I'm taking a liking to is building Zzrot components right after Catalyst, and finishing Zzrot/RG/Glacial in whatever order seems necessary at the time. Zzrot gives a lot of resistances to compliment the Catalyst/RG, though I'm still not great with its active so its usefulness varies game to game. Early raptor cloak is definitely fun though, zooming around under your/their tower during laning is hilarious. Also if you pick up the Zzrot early, the Void Gate can make for some nice escapes since you gain Point Runner from it. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
its good if they have a lot of melee and your team is doing ok. if enemy ap or ad are fed you better go for more defensive item. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On March 21 2015 03:22 Nohiko wrote: What are your guys' thoughts on Sunfire as a Core (1st/2nd) item on Sion? Up until a week ago I built it nearly every game that I could afford to, primarily for the increased kill potential on dash-less opponents and partially as a waveclear aid. I run MPen quints when I can get away with it and the damage from the burn ontop of W/E melts targets who haven't build MR yet. The downside are that you spend 500g on damage at a point in the game where you only have 1 or 1.5 items, so you are relying more on your innate tankiness to push you through this 'tank trough'. If the other team comp forces you into MR at/before 2nd item, it seems not worth it to forgo CDR and mana for the extra damage Sunfire provides. My recent build has been: Cheese a camp, start Ruby+Rejuv+2pot, rush catalyst, then itemize whatever resists you need that game, then finish Righteous Glory once I need some HP to back up the armor/MR stacking. Usually I'll fit a Glacial in soon after the catalyst. Catalyst solves the mana problem in lane entirely, and Righteous Glory gives so much HP that I don't feel bad if when it is my only HP item along with FH/Null-magic or something similar. Something I'm taking a liking to is building Zzrot components right after Catalyst, and finishing Zzrot/RG/Glacial in whatever order seems necessary at the time. Zzrot gives a lot of resistances to compliment the Catalyst/RG, though I'm still not great with its active so its usefulness varies game to game. Early raptor cloak is definitely fun though, zooming around under your/their tower during laning is hilarious. Also if you pick up the Zzrot early, the Void Gate can make for some nice escapes since you gain Point Runner from it. Sunfire should never be built on Sion, its a cost inefficient item that should only be built if you need pushing power. Sion has probably the best pushing power of any champion in top lane with EQ. You already wreck the wave, so its a complete waste. Nobody is going to stand next to you long enough for the measly damage to ever add up to anything, plus as Sion you usually avoid long trades in lane in favor of poking and EQ(W) then disengage. The small synergy with Mpen is absolutely not worth it (I run Hybrid pen on him as well). I would advocate an early FH in any matchup you can build armor. I wouldn't build Zz'rot for nearly the same reason. Sion is like the safest pusher in the game, a few voidlings doesn't really add anything to his push power when you can already instaclear a wave. Just relentlessly EQ until you hit inhib and ult away if they come for you. | ||
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Nohiko
71 Posts
On March 21 2015 03:38 sob3k wrote: Sunfire should never be built on Sion, its a cost inefficient item that should only be built if you need pushing power. Sion has probably the best pushing power of any champion in top lane with EQ. You already wreck the wave, so its a complete waste. Nobody is going to stand next to you long enough for the measly damage to ever add up to anything, plus as Sion you usually avoid long trades in lane in favor of poking and EQ(W) then disengage. The small synergy with Mpen is absolutely not worth it (I run Hybrid pen on him as well). I would advocate an early FH in any matchup you can build armor. I wouldn't build Zz'rot for nearly the same reason. Sion is like the safest pusher in the game, a few voidlings doesn't really add anything to his push power when you can already instaclear a wave. Just relentlessly EQ until you hit inhib and ult away if they come for you. I find that in lane I can keep the opponent within sunfire range for a couple sets of CDs if they are just focused on getting away from me (provided they don't have a dash). The rest of the time I would agree that your damage is more poke based, so sunfire isn't doing much for you. I don't build Zzrot to drop the Gate in the same lane I'm currently splitting in, I drop the Gate when I have to leave the lane. If I ult to mid/jungle or TP somewhere then I can drop the Gate before I leave and continue to apply pressure to that lane. Also if we are team pushing a lane, you can take a quick trip into the jungle and drop the Gate near one of the other lanes for additional pressure. Doesn't take long and can get you an extra tower. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On March 21 2015 09:50 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: How do you play against Sion mid-lategame when he's unkillable, does magic and physical damage, and wrecks you even after he dies? Honestly I just ban him every game now because he never seems weak. Last He never does that much damage, ideally you would manage to stun him out of his Q, ignore him and take out his backline. Then kill him later. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On March 21 2015 10:36 sob3k wrote: Last He never does that much damage, ideally you would manage to stun him out of his Q, ignore him and take out his backline. Then kill him later. I always see Sion do most/second most damage in game with full tank build though. How can you just ignore him? | ||
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