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Why would you get a Soulstealer on Veigar? He has a weak early game with very poor defences and is squishy as fuck. He scales better into the lategame than ANYONE, you just have to get him there. Soulstealer is the opposite of what you want.
Actually I disagree with pretty much your entire build. The only CDR you need as Veigar is a Deathfire Grasp, which is an absolutely essential, non-negotiable item. The rest comes from blue buff since you're guaranteed to be the best candidate on your team for it.
Opening Amp Tome + Mana pot sounds incredibly fragile, is there anyone that won't laugh you out of lane with Boots+3 or DRing?
I'd say Veigar's core is Sorc Shoes, DFG, Deathcap and Void Staff. The other two I'd put Zhonya's/RoA or a pure defence item. He seems like a bad candidate for Rylai's and Abyssal.
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I like starting with DRing or even Meki, just because it helps so much with farming those Q's...
The mana-cost buff on Q was really great.
If you open amp+pot you basically get into an even MORE passive farm position than you already are just by playing Veigar.
It works, but you won't get kills. Like, at all.
I actually think boots + 1 manapots (nothing else) is a better opening though (assuming you only farm, like you should if you don't take hp pots). You will have enough gold for Kages and some pots pretty much at the point where you'll need to B anyways, the boots help you with avoiding just enough damage.
Obv. bad against super-aggressive junglers like Shaco, but at my elo, most of those are not good enough to look at items before deciding on a gank...
Also, I've been playing around with getting defensive items first, like my boots opener -> straight Warmogs rush
Catalyst -> BV in a burst heavy lane is godlike, Sions/Morgs/brands can't do shit. Also helps against ganks
RoA is probably a more conservative choice, gives hp, mana, and some serious lategame AP scaling.
I feel like you can afford it, since you still get a ton of AP.
Also, I'd never finish DFG before Deathcap, no sense. Just keep the Kage's. Void Staff is best as last item.
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Recently just fed a lane as Veigar. How much does Morgana own Veigar's face? I know I played badly but I'm looking for kind of consolation. T-T
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On December 16 2011 04:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
I like starting with DRing or even Meki, just because it helps so much with farming those Q's...
The mana-cost buff on Q was really great.
If you open amp+pot you basically get into an even MORE passive farm position than you already are just by playing Veigar.
It works, but you won't get kills. Like, at all.
I actually think boots + 1 manapots (nothing else) is a better opening though (assuming you only farm, like you should if you don't take hp pots). You will have enough gold for Kages and some pots pretty much at the point where you'll need to B anyways, the boots help you with avoiding just enough damage.
Obv. bad against super-aggressive junglers like Shaco, but at my elo, most of those are not good enough to look at items before deciding on a gank...
Also, I've been playing around with getting defensive items first, like my boots opener -> straight Warmogs rush
Catalyst -> BV in a burst heavy lane is godlike, Sions/Morgs/brands can't do shit. Also helps against ganks
RoA is probably a more conservative choice, gives hp, mana, and some serious lategame AP scaling.
I feel like you can afford it, since you still get a ton of AP.
Also, I'd never finish DFG before Deathcap, no sense. Just keep the Kage's. Void Staff is best as last item.
please stop talking, warmogs on veigar is zzzz
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On December 16 2011 05:41 asianskill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
I like starting with DRing or even Meki, just because it helps so much with farming those Q's...
The mana-cost buff on Q was really great.
If you open amp+pot you basically get into an even MORE passive farm position than you already are just by playing Veigar.
It works, but you won't get kills. Like, at all.
I actually think boots + 1 manapots (nothing else) is a better opening though (assuming you only farm, like you should if you don't take hp pots). You will have enough gold for Kages and some pots pretty much at the point where you'll need to B anyways, the boots help you with avoiding just enough damage.
Obv. bad against super-aggressive junglers like Shaco, but at my elo, most of those are not good enough to look at items before deciding on a gank...
Also, I've been playing around with getting defensive items first, like my boots opener -> straight Warmogs rush
Catalyst -> BV in a burst heavy lane is godlike, Sions/Morgs/brands can't do shit. Also helps against ganks
RoA is probably a more conservative choice, gives hp, mana, and some serious lategame AP scaling.
I feel like you can afford it, since you still get a ton of AP.
Also, I'd never finish DFG before Deathcap, no sense. Just keep the Kage's. Void Staff is best as last item. please stop talking, warmogs on veigar is zzzz
But it's funny coz they'll focus you anywayzzzz
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On December 16 2011 06:25 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 05:41 asianskill wrote:On December 16 2011 04:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
I like starting with DRing or even Meki, just because it helps so much with farming those Q's...
The mana-cost buff on Q was really great.
If you open amp+pot you basically get into an even MORE passive farm position than you already are just by playing Veigar.
It works, but you won't get kills. Like, at all.
I actually think boots + 1 manapots (nothing else) is a better opening though (assuming you only farm, like you should if you don't take hp pots). You will have enough gold for Kages and some pots pretty much at the point where you'll need to B anyways, the boots help you with avoiding just enough damage.
Obv. bad against super-aggressive junglers like Shaco, but at my elo, most of those are not good enough to look at items before deciding on a gank...
Also, I've been playing around with getting defensive items first, like my boots opener -> straight Warmogs rush
Catalyst -> BV in a burst heavy lane is godlike, Sions/Morgs/brands can't do shit. Also helps against ganks
RoA is probably a more conservative choice, gives hp, mana, and some serious lategame AP scaling.
I feel like you can afford it, since you still get a ton of AP.
Also, I'd never finish DFG before Deathcap, no sense. Just keep the Kage's. Void Staff is best as last item. please stop talking, warmogs on veigar is zzzz But it's funny coz they'll focus you anywayzzzz
you dont just build like a tank just because you have shit positioning.
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Is rylais rod of ages deathfire better
or something like deathcap deathfire warmogs?
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Why are Earth are people building warmogs on an ap carry? If you want to build hp, rylais or RoA.
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On December 16 2011 05:24 phyvo wrote:
Recently just fed a lane as Veigar. How much does Morgana own Veigar's face? I know I played badly but I'm looking for kind of consolation. T-T
Pretty badly. She just shields and walks through your stun... you can't kill her very easily at all, and she pushes your lane all day long. Has to to screw up really badly for you to win your lane (and you probably need a jungler's help even then). Without a jungler's assist, at best you're sitting on your turret farming all day long.
But if you do that, she's probably ganking side lanes. It ain't pretty.
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Veigar suffers from lots of problems right now. I used to main as him, and I will admit he's pretty powerful if used correctly. However....
- He has a very long cooldown on his Ult. It's a one target Ult but it has 100 sec + cooldown. Because of this, he can only take out one enemy at a time. If he uses his Ult...well he can't really do much damage, at least not enough to kill an enemy with just Q + W + DFG
- He punishes other APs for doing good, meaning a Veigar will take out another Veigar regardless of the fact that one veigar is doing much better than another veigar. It's pretty much whoever gets Ult + Combo off first. It's very unstable matchup, just like ZvZ.
- He has no sustain whatsoever, spellvamp isn't part of Veigar's build.
- Because of his fixed damage, even if he farms his AP up to 1000, if the enemy starts stacking Health and Magic Resist, there is little Veigar can do. When I used to own the enemy team and my kills were like 16 kills / 1 death, the enemy team would always stack Magic Resist and Health. Stack one thing, and Veig can still kill, but stack both and Veig really can't penetrate enemies even with Void Staff.
- Because Veigar's playstyle and spells are designed to take out 1 enemy at a time, once he blows all his spells, the only thing he can contribute to the teamfight is his AoE stun, which has a fairly long cooldown. Meaning, if Veigar uses everything and kills an enemy, the teamfight becomes 4v4. If he couldn't finish off an enemy, the teamfight is 4v5, with Veig out of the picture.
- Veig used to have mana problems but the recent patch addressed this.
A well-placed E can make or break a Veigar.
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ghost owl does bring up some good points
veigar just has an "old model" of a champion, back when every champ did fixed damage
now, without a blink or shield, some sort of innate vamp or mpen, or %-based damage, he just feels archaic compared to brand, xerath, ahri, and the like
i'm not saying he's bad just that he's so... ancient compared to the new breed of mobility mages imo
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On December 16 2011 03:37 Alzadar wrote:
Why would you get a Soulstealer on Veigar? He has a weak early game with very poor defences and is squishy as fuck. He scales better into the lategame than ANYONE, you just have to get him there. Soulstealer is the opposite of what you want.
Actually I disagree with pretty much your entire build. The only CDR you need as Veigar is a Deathfire Grasp, which is an absolutely essential, non-negotiable item. The rest comes from blue buff since you're guaranteed to be the best candidate on your team for it.
Opening Amp Tome + Mana pot sounds incredibly fragile, is there anyone that won't laugh you out of lane with Boots+3 or DRing?
I'd say Veigar's core is Sorc Shoes, DFG, Deathcap and Void Staff. The other two I'd put Zhonya's/RoA or a pure defence item. He seems like a bad candidate for Rylai's and Abyssal.
Well I must say today i was trying my build, and discovered what you said about soulstealer is true.But the next game I got it after the Evil Tome and RoA, and it was pretty kickass. If you play passive enough, and have one team fight go in your favor, you can rack up some assists/steals for Soulstealer, and having all that AP is amazing. I got to 20 and it was awesome. +160 AP and the CDR. I was just trying this build out just because i don't really like DFG, and it was pretty amazing if you ask me. What I do need to work on is the opening item(s) and the first item, because I was just hugging my tower all day vs. (let me check up on that)
Honestly, i wish you would try this out maybe and tell me what you think. It doesn't rely as much on blue, and you get way more teamfighting potential with the improved CDR. Now granted, this is at a far ELO i'm sure, but it was mostly theorycrafting.
I do have a question: why would you build a pure defense item? He is just a nuke so I don't really know why it would be beneficial to be able to last too long in a team fight, where you should just nuke, stun, and run away, come back and do it again if it is still going on.
EDIT: Ok So I had another idea. Since having 20 Stacks for soulstealer seems so hard to achieve, and not much benifit because there is enough other CDR, why not replace that with Will of The ancients. Imagine being focused at the start of a team fight, comboing their AP, and be back at near full health! Plus th 80AP and 30AP bonus to allies. Seems like a great item on veigar and would change the build to:
Ionian Boots
Deathcap
RoA
Void Staff
Evil Tome
and Will of the Ancients.
Not in that order ofc
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If you're going to get a defensive item, a Zhonya's is probably better than WoTA... if you're going to die, it isn't going to be a slow process. Zhonya's will let you get a second combo off, and let your team wail on anyone trying to kill you.
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On December 16 2011 09:29 zer0das wrote:
If you're going to get a defensive item, a Zhonya's is probably better than WoTA... if you're going to die, it isn't going to be a slow process. Zhonya's will let you get a second combo off, and let your team wail on anyone trying to kill you.
Actually that makes a lot more sense.... woops. 100AP vs 80 and you get to live for 2 seconds.... that was silly of me
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Spell vamp seems bad on Veigar to me because all his damage comes out at once, you can't sustain yourself in a fight with it. The only time it's useful is in the fringe case you mentioned where you are focused but not killed and not silenced/stunned, all before you get off your combo, in which case you can heal yourself. Seems too unlikely to be optimal.
Why are you trying to avoid the Deathfire Grasp? It is AMAZING on Veigar.
Deals magic damage to target champion equal to 30% of their current health (+3.5% per 100 ability power)
It is perfectly plausible in the midgame to have 500+ AP, so you're looking at a spell that does 45% of your target's HP on a 60 sec CD. It has the same range as your Q, making it easy to include in your combos.
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On December 16 2011 09:08 Juddas wrote:Imagine being focused at the start of a team fight, comboing their AP, and be back at near full health!
If the other team is close enough to focus you as Veigar, you're just going to be dead, no matter how much you're capable of spellvamping.
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On December 16 2011 09:51 Alzadar wrote:
Spell vamp seems bad on Veigar to me because all his damage comes out at once, you can't sustain yourself in a fight with it. The only time it's useful is in the fringe case you mentioned where you are focused but not killed and not silenced/stunned, all before you get off your combo, in which case you can heal yourself. Seems too unlikely to be optimal.
Why are you trying to avoid the Deathfire Grasp? It is AMAZING on Veigar.
Deals magic damage to target champion equal to 30% of their current health (+3.5% per 100 ability power)
It is perfectly plausible in the midgame to have 500+ AP, so you're looking at a spell that does 45% of your target's HP on a 60 sec CD. It has the same range as your Q, making it easy to include in your combos.
OK ok I'll replace WOTA with Deathfire... XD I dont know why I was avoiding it.
Now could anyone help me decide an order possibly? I feel like I could rush Evil Tome but I am not sure, and am clueless on the starting item
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I played with this one idiot before who went FoN first item on veigar into warmogs. I shit you not. Tee worst part was he thought he was good. 40 minutes into the game he has less than 150 ap yet get's 3-4 kills just by ks'ing with his ult. Made me so mad that this piece of trash legitimately thought he did well. He even mocked the enemy team after we won with like 'warmogs veigar too strong' and gay shit like that. So fucking useless. If wasn't a 20-0 akali we would have gotten destroyed.
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wow. that is ridiculous. Some people are just retarded I suppose. Sometimes I can't stand this community when you have games like that...
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On December 16 2011 10:14 Cytokinesis wrote:
I played with this one idiot before who went FoN first item on veigar into warmogs. I shit you not. Tee worst part was he thought he was good. 40 minutes into the game he has less than 150 ap yet get's 3-4 kills just by ks'ing with his ult. Made me so mad that this piece of trash legitimately thought he did well. He even mocked the enemy team after we won with like 'warmogs veigar too strong' and gay shit like that. So fucking useless. If wasn't a 20-0 akali we would have gotten destroyed.
Troll Veigar build sounds op'd, new metagame yo. Ya'll just jelly.
heh, I could see it be some what decent if enemy team is all AP of sorts.
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EPT
