|
Baa?21244 Posts
On October 12 2011 18:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 17:44 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Didn't even notice OP was that out of date haha. I would make one but I'm not that confident without experience in 'real' games with him. But he should be played more because his damage is pretty good with ability to instantly-KO targets and utility of the unique stun in fights.
EDIT: I should add that a good Veigar needs two things apart from standard mechanics (last hitting, positioning, etc): stunning correctly and precisely, and from lategame learning to divide damage because the targets you do want to 1HKO if possible will not need full combination of QWR+DFG. In general, W R kills an AP carry and DFG W kills a range AD. Add Q to whoever needs that extra bit of damage. If they're all low (low being ~2/3 depending on how game is going), W Q kills a support for instant triple kill huehuehue. But usually you can reliably get a double if they're at like 2/3-3/4health. Just split three ways if your team is in range to follow up for your stun even if they're at full health. Full to zero double kills are amazingly satisfying though, but you need to be pretty ahead. only had one full to zero triple kill and I was extremely fed that game ;o Doesn't work as well if you don't take AP quints and AP/lvl blues though. I still think mana regen blues are worthless. I think MPen quints are pretty worthless too. AP/MS/HP all better, though I never use HP anymore.. I don't like HP regen quints either. DFG opening > D Cap opening almost always. Tear -> D cap only if you really think you're gonna be completely useless for the first ~25 minutes of the game. Like -completely- useless, because if you go this build, you'll be completely worthless, and if you could've brought any sort of damage to your team before that just buy the DFG. I haven't actually gone tear/dcap opening in like months. RoA is trash item don't get it. WotA is pretty shitty on him too imo. I only played like ~5 games with it though so I could be wrong on that count. But there are just other items that are better. Only 6 item slots, and DFG, boots, hat, zhonya, void, b veil, GA all take precedence over WotA imo. CDR boots also suck since you should be getting DFG/blue for max CDR. Like seriously get that item. It's literally the only core item on Veigar. Don't understand how you can play Veigar without a DFG. I used to not do it and then I got it and realized I was being a complete retard before. I got it after hat then his ult ratio got buffed and I got better at farming and I just got it as first item. Nothing else except boots1 is a must get on him... Nothing wrong with opening Meki you're just bad wala ^^
Everything I said here still stands. The only thing that changed this patch was that Veigar can now reliably open Boots 3 pots instead of a mana regen item and still farm in lane. That's a HUGE thing, but it doesn't mean Veigar can suddenly do random crappy builds lol.
but by all means keep buildling random crap on Veigar so Riot feels the need to buff him again huehue.
He's still made of paper and gets zoned by aggressive laners, but W mana costs means you have an easier time farming with it in dire situations.
|
omg you're right hahaha. His ult doesnt scale. Ha.
|
i've done semi-tank veigar before. shit's fun. boots 1 - lucky pick - warmog - boots 2 - (thornmail - dfg) <(interchangeable) - rabadon - hourglass. good farm and constant blue is obviously required, but those 2 are pretty much a requirement for any veigars. magic resist pointless because you can just burst their AP carry in the face anyways. survive long enough to fire out a good amount of dmg after initial burst
in the end it's all in good fun.
|
Ok so explain to me why you're all building DFG on Veigar again? Veigar has enough single target burst to facemelt just about anyone without any AP items whatsoever.
My Veigar build is a very solid, consistent way to win games at any ELO provided you can farm Q's. I run 9/12/9 with every talent that gives movespeed that I can get, extra health, and increased buff duartion. Runes are Spellpen quints/reds, mp5 yellow and mp5 blue. I play defensively in lane bar ganks and harass with Q often to set up a level 6 kill if my opponent goes for any aggressive items at all.
My goal is to first item catalyst, then stack resistances while farming champions and minions with my ulti and Q, so I'll generally get a Zhonya's, Glacial Shroud, and Banshee's Veil as follow ups depending on what I need. If I'm farming well and get a kill or two early, I'll skip cata for a Deathcap, then go DIRECTLY into Banshee's Veil and continue to build tanky. Late game, a Void Staff is a required pickup to increase your damage output.
I don't feel like taking cuts to get more AP on Veig is correct and it simply causes you to get dived by annoying tanky characters that you have no chance of deuling. A fast cata solves health/mana sustain issues and lets you get more AP by giving more opportunity to farm Q's, whereas if you build squishy/glass cannon you can easily be tower dived, suppressed or otherwise bodied and will give up many deaths.
In teamfights, it takes no effort to kill squishy Veig; any ult or tanky DPS will do. Tanky Veig still has a lot of damage and can poke repeatedly with meteors and Q's, land multiple stuns, and is always a bad choice to focus first - you'll always get your ult off because of banshee's veil. If their tanky DPS chases you around, you have a veil and a stun to get out and good sustained damage.
So yeah. Tl;dr, fuck warmog's and DFG, go veil and farm Qs
|
On December 16 2011 10:44 Deezl wrote:
My Veigar build is a very solid, consistent way to win games at any ELO below my own
you can't really say something's good at high Elo if you don't play at a high Elo level.
and the thing is you can't instagib people until you get tons of AP, which is why you need DFG. once you DO have tons of AP, DFG does ridiculous amounts of damage so feel free to instagib two people.
edit: also building survivability on Veigar is pretty troll imo. the whole point of picking Veigar is to one shot people and once you've done that then your job is done. whether you live or die after that depends on how good your stun placement was, hourglass, and whether or not your team wants to save you. if you want a sustained damage AP carry then pick Karthus or something.
|
Baa?21244 Posts
DFG let's you instagib multiple people.
|
On December 16 2011 10:44 Deezl wrote:
Ok so explain to me why you're all building DFG on Veigar again? Veigar has enough single target burst to facemelt just about anyone without any AP items whatsoever.
maybe @lvl6 or against pure glass cannon APs, but other than that, not likely. unless your opponent let you free farm. in which case they're complete baddies.
|
Baa?21244 Posts
Best way to do tankgar is DFG bv glacial/fh later void staff
Maybe hourglass earlier instead of glacial since mana costs got lowered hmm.
|
On December 16 2011 10:38 Juddas wrote:
omg you're right hahaha. His ult doesnt scale. Ha.
What do you mean by scale? It has 1.2 AP scaling and 0.8 opponent AP scaling.
|
For the people doubting DFG...I had one game where an opponent Veigar laned better than me (enemy invisible shaco jungler, had to waste gold on vision wards, unlucky, etc) and he went straight for cap and didnt get DFG while I rushed to DFG. By the time my DFG was done, his Veig was about 200 AP higher than mine, especially cause he snowballed and got cap while I didnt. Fight breaks out, and I realized his firepower was either equal or worse than mine, simply because I had that extra DFG power. I realized how important rushing to DFG was
On a side note, if enemy gets mercury treads, your level 1 stun wont last enough to pull off the combo. Always get level 2 stun early if enemy gets tenacity
|
Baa?21244 Posts
Just max E anyways. That shit's OP for teamfights. you don't really need the 200 extra damage on W from rank 5 compared to 1. Leveling W just gives you 50 damage per rank, whereas leveling E reduces CD by 1 and increases stun by .25.
|
r>q>e>w always for me. zzz
Q is your main damage source. You need it. W scales better with AP than levels. Out of veigar's kit, it's best to max last for the most part. It's more of a lategame AoE nuke because of it's scaling. Your q + autos are all you need to farm. E is the most retardedly powerful stun in the game. Abuse it! :O
....only reason some people have a hardon for w maxed first is because it clears waves faster so you can push the wave back faster. That way you won't be supwr pushed allowing your lane opponent to leave to gank. If you're going to do that though, why not play something gay like sion then zzz. Veigar is about safe farming during lane and trying not to die because you are squishy like jello. Then abusing his midgame nuking power to steamroll teamfights. Basically you're giving up earlygame power for that super strong mid to lategame. Just nees to ward and not allow your lane opponent to gwt successful ganks off.
Dfg too good to not get on him imo. :> lets veigar do his job npnp
Tank veigar is just a troll thing I do in TL inhouses. ;(
Farm all day, Be unkillable with 500+ AP from creeps and kills :D
Doesn't work in games above like...600 elo aka any game with TL 
Note to self: need to steal d nasty stx girl's 500 elo account to play it more 
|
Baa?21244 Posts
On December 16 2011 16:47 BlackPaladin wrote:
Tank veigar is just a troll thing I do in TL inhouses. ;(
I maintain semi-tank Veigar with DFG/Void/BV/Frozen Heart/Hourglass/Mercs is super legit :>
|
Yeah well i mean stuff like warmogs + FH + bv/fon = nonono lol
Zhonya's is perfectly acceptable on basically any AP :p as is mercs. I don't really agree with FH much though. Dfg + blue pot is 25% cdr right then and there. You don't need 200+ armor on veigar lol. And you're more than likely to be the one with blue. I can see where you're coming from (15 dfg + 25 from fh) but i generally choose zhonyas if i want an armor item. It can give you a lot more survivability with the active, and your top and jungle are usually better off with a FH than the veigar thay shouldn't be in the middle of the enemy team to have full use of the aura.
I agree with BV though. Usually i like something like dfg, deathcap, zhonyas, bv, mercs (if low cc or you want more damage early for cheap, sorcs, if no cc and you can't get blue much, i like ionian so ican have 40% cdr wirh blue pot, but that's just me) and void staff as end build, but obviously your items are situational and game dependant. But usually that's what my full build looks like. You'll normally get blue and BV is a good mana source. Lategame veigars passive basically means you can constantly q whenever its off cooldown without running out of mana even without blue. His mana issues are early-game and that can be solved with a good jungler giving you blue.
|
Note to self: need to steal d nasty stx girl's 500 elo account to play it more
Don't have it anymore, although you're free to queue dodge my alt acct down to that elo if you want.
|
On December 16 2011 16:07 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Just max E anyways. That shit's OP for teamfights. you don't really need the 200 extra damage on W from rank 5 compared to 1. Leveling W just gives you 50 damage per rank, whereas leveling E reduces CD by 1 and increases stun by .25.
and the increased chance to hit with a longer stun often gives you higher overall damage anyway
|
On December 16 2011 15:44 GhostOwl wrote:
For the people doubting DFG...I had one game where an opponent Veigar laned better than me (enemy invisible shaco jungler, had to waste gold on vision wards, unlucky, etc) and he went straight for cap and didnt get DFG while I rushed to DFG. By the time my DFG was done, his Veig was about 200 AP higher than mine, especially cause he snowballed and got cap while I didnt. Fight breaks out, and I realized his firepower was either equal or worse than mine, simply because I had that extra DFG power. I realized how important rushing to DFG was
On a side note, if enemy gets mercury treads, your level 1 stun wont last enough to pull off the combo. Always get level 2 stun early if enemy gets tenacity
Veigar Vs Veigar is a completely different scenario than most games, since the other veigar's combo also scales with your deathcap.
It's irrelevant for 95% of the games.
Your DFG hits much harder with 300-400 AP (which you'll have if you opened Deathcap) than 100. DFG first is like Lichbane as first item, sure you can do it, but it doesn't give you as much POWER consistently.
In Veig v Veig, rushing BV es #2 and rushing zhonya's es #1, any other first items are inferior.
|
dfg first also gives u mp5/cdr/gold/10 while u build it if u have to back more often than you would want. 15% cdr is also huge. deathcap being ~200ap loses you out on alot of the side benefits of dfg. seems like people are comparing unique use + 100 ap vs 200 ap
|
On December 16 2011 21:16 Dandel Ion wrote:
Your DFG hits much harder with 300-400 AP (which you'll have if you opened Deathcap) than 100. DFG first is like Lichbane as first item, sure you can do it, but it doesn't give you as much POWER consistently.
it's very different from rushing lichbane. if you rush lichbane with no AP you don't gain any damage on the sheen proc and your damage can actually go down. if you rush DFG with no AP you still nuke for 30% of their HP.
|
I did the math for that a few pages back in this thread already. DFG will always outdamage deathcap in burst using comparable gold amounts in AP. And that's without including all the side benefits of the CDR and mana regen that you get which allows veigar to farm more and q more often. You generally get deathcap after that anyway.
Deathcap does do more sustained damage, obviously, so you'll hit harder per q, but your full combo will actually be weaker with deathcap than with DFG. In most scenarios DFG is better. DFG is the type of item that's kind of all around good on a champ like veigar. If a tank builds hp it simply does more damage, and it's still good vs squishy's with little hp/resists, since giving you another nuke can sometimes mean you don't need to blow everything on a single person, and can in turn nuke 100->0 TWO enemy champs in a fight. Which is a really awesome ability that veigar has.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
