EPTDue to Veigars passive you have mana to keep on harassing with Q. Stun and W takes too much mana early on.
[Champion] Veigar - Page 14
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
Due to Veigars passive you have mana to keep on harassing with Q. Stun and W takes too much mana early on. | ||
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rkffhk
474 Posts
On May 08 2012 20:44 h3r1n6 wrote: Rarely use Q to farm in lane Due to Veigars passive you have mana to keep on harassing with Q. Veigar gets +1 ap for each last hit with Q. I don't understand how this makes sense. If you want to maximize AP, shouldn't use try to last hit as much as possible with Q? I mean yeah if there's no available minions to farm with Q, then yeah I understand using it to harrass... but really? | ||
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emraaa
Germany505 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 08 2012 20:44 h3r1n6 wrote: You should watch Nyjacky play Veigar on his stream a bit. Ever since I started copying his playstyle a bit, my Veigar got a lot better without even playing it. He maxes Q>W>E, with a point in stun at level 2 usually. Rarely use Q to farm in lane, mostly to harass and when they get low he finishes them with a combo. Due to Veigars passive you have mana to keep on harassing with Q. Stun and W takes too much mana early on. NYjacky style is only for very high level games or tournaments where people play very safe and there arent opportunities for lane kills and winning lane while Q farming. I would never ever play this style in soloque, as you can easily farm your Q and win your lane at the same time with a bit of skill. Its like Reginald Karthus maxing wall over defile in tournaments. Its a very specific strategy where he knows he wont have any opportunity to get kills in lane without serious ganks, and is sacrificing damage for added teamfight utility and support of these rare big plays. Playing like this at anything less than a top level is just dumb, you will have many many opportunities to win lane and get 1v1 kills in soloque. | ||
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Sufinsil
United States760 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On May 08 2012 22:44 sob3k wrote: NYjacky style is only for very high level games or tournaments where people play very safe and there arent opportunities for lane kills and winning lane while Q farming. I would never ever play this style in soloque, as you can easily farm your Q and win your lane at the same time with a bit of skill. Its like Reginald Karthus maxing wall over defile in tournaments. Its a very specific strategy where he knows he wont have any opportunity to get kills in lane without serious ganks, and is sacrificing damage for added teamfight utility and support of these rare big plays. Playing like this at anything less than a top level is just dumb, you will have many many opportunities to win lane and get 1v1 kills in soloque. After level 5 or so, if you CAN hit the enemy champion with Q, you'd obviously choose to hit them with Q instead of farming a minion with it. Chunking an enemy champion better than 1 AP. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
On May 08 2012 20:44 h3r1n6 wrote: You should watch Nyjacky play Veigar on his stream a bit. Ever since I started copying his playstyle a bit, my Veigar got a lot better without even playing it. He maxes Q>W>E, with a point in stun at level 2 usually. Rarely use Q to farm in lane, mostly to harass and when they get low he finishes them with a combo. Due to Veigars passive you have mana to keep on harassing with Q. Stun and W takes too much mana early on. HIGHLY, HIGHLY disagree with not farming with Q. 1 AP is worth 20 gold --> double the farm. More than GP's Parrrley ever was. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 08 2012 23:52 Juicyfruit wrote: After level 5 or so, if you CAN hit the enemy champion with Q, you'd obviously choose to hit them with Q instead of farming a minion with it. Chunking an enemy champion better than 1 AP. If you can hit them with Q and not get chunked yourself even harder | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
like at the very least you want to start trading at level 5 if not earlier so you can prepare for level 6 burst farming with Q before first buy generally doesn't result in significant AP gains - like 15 at most? - while it will open you up to extreme harass every time your Q is down - its not so much for the damage as much as you will be extremely vulnerable TO damage, making you unable to hold lane control | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
On May 09 2012 01:52 Navi wrote: you generally want to trade with Q because of the way your burst functions like at the very least you want to start trading at level 5 if not earlier so you can prepare for level 6 burst farming with Q before first buy generally doesn't result in significant AP gains - like 15 at most? - while it will open you up to extreme harass every time your Q is down - its not so much for the damage as much as you will be extremely vulnerable TO damage, making you unable to hold lane control ^ Every time I see a Veigar use Q to farm, I just go all in. You trade me 1 AP for 100-200 damage; I'll take it. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On May 09 2012 02:08 jacosajh wrote: ^ Every time I see a Veigar use Q to farm, I just go all in. You trade me 1 AP for 100-200 damage; I'll take it. Prett much. Ever since I have adapted Nyjackys style, I win more lanes and more games in the few games of Veigar I play. I'm not saying it's the key to Veigar, but if you never played him like that you should give it a try. It makes Veigar a whole lot more fun for me. On May 08 2012 22:44 sob3k wrote: Its like Reginald Karthus maxing wall over defile in tournaments. Its a very specific strategy where he knows he wont have any opportunity to get kills in lane without serious ganks, and is sacrificing damage for added teamfight utility and support of these rare big plays. Playing like this at anything less than a top level is just dumb, you will have many many opportunities to win lane and get 1v1 kills in soloque. I don't really want to turn this off-topic, but I thought maxing wall on Karthus second is pretty standard? Karthus is pretty much one of my main champions and I see little reason to max defile early when the slow and magic pen goes up nicely on wall (80% slow imba). Catching the opponent in lane with wall is the best way to get some good and safe damage on them and maxing it makes that way easier. I'd put less points in Wall when I can't catch my oponent out with it (Kassadin for example blinks and/or silences me so i can't use the effects of the wall) or I don't get blue buff and am in need of the mana regen on defile. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 09 2012 03:23 h3r1n6 wrote: Prett much. Ever since I have adapted Nyjackys style, I win more lanes and more games in the few games of Veigar I play. I'm not saying it's the key to Veigar, but if you never played him like that you should give it a try. It makes Veigar a whole lot more fun for me. I don't really want to turn this off-topic, but I thought maxing wall on Karthus second is pretty standard? Karthus is pretty much one of my main champions and I see little reason to max defile early when the slow and magic pen goes up nicely on wall (80% slow imba). Catching the opponent in lane with wall is the best way to get some good and safe damage on them and maxing it makes that way easier. I'd put less points in Wall when I can't catch my oponent out with it (Kassadin for example blinks and/or silences me so i can't use the effects of the wall) or I don't get blue buff and am in need of the mana regen on defile. Its not standard, Defile gives you huge damage and better sustain while 40 from wall is usually plenty to do what you need. Scarra: http://www.lolpro.com/guides/karthus/130-karthus-guide-mid-lane Reginald: http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=13073 Dyrus: http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=4631 | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Still lacks pushing power. It's also a sacrifice in terms of your burst. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 16 2012 14:49 obesechicken13 wrote: I tried going chalice first again on Veigar. With mana regen yellows and purples you can constantly spam just Q at level 9 with almost no mana. It seems like a decent option for more free AP. Still lacks pushing power. It's also a sacrifice in terms of your burst. Press W -> best lane shove NA? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
My problem with max W is the relatively longer cooldown on W and the fact that it is difficult to land. Even with the stun, people running merc treads, cleanse, and QSS can escape you. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
you don't have to rigidly adhere to maxing one over the other... | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On December 17 2012 14:45 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: you change whether you level w or e based on matchup/how the game is going/your goals you don't have to rigidly adhere to maxing one over the other... I know, but in this meta, you know how the matchup is going to go based on the picks. Mid pushes you to your tower, you have to max W, you can't kill anyone until mid game when your Q starts getting maxed. That's why Veigar doesn't get picked. | ||
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