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[Champion] Akali - Page 7
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On March 16 2011 04:09 Seuss wrote: + Show Spoiler + Don't jungle with Doran's Blade. 10 AD, 100 Health and 3% Life Steal aren't remotely as good as 18 Armor and 1000 Health. Amplifying Tome is just as bad. Cloth Armor + 5 Pot is simply better than either option in almost every conceivable way. Compare the following videos to your own jungling for reference. The difference in security should be obvious, and I highly doubt your build is capable of the alternative routes excepting perhaps the Wraith jack. Well, I just bought akali and some AD reds, have only jungled like 2 games so far, so thanks for the vids. Also Westrice's guide is pretty good, I wish he'd do a jungle guide (in my opinion, have a weak jungler played by an expert who mains them is better than a strong jungler played by someone with less experience). | ||
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Just watch Stonewall's Akali Challenge to see how bad she used to be, and realize that a lot of the people who try her now attempt to use Long Sword + 1 Pot so they can take MPen marks and spec 9/0/21. If it was Warick or Nunu they'd ask on the forums what they're doing wrong, but since it's Akali they write her off and never think on it again. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
1) She is absurdally strong in solo lane 2) She is an anti-carry so she can't be 2-3 lvls behind enemy carry 3) There are champions that NEED the jungle | ||
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Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
I maintain that she's a much better jungler than most realize, but at the moment the only reason to jungle as her is for fun and/or because you're sick of fighting for solo lanes (incidentally my original motivation). | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
There are probably very few teams that have such a niche to fill (like idk, ashe mid and kayle/teemo top or something, both need farm and your team still wants some AP). The most compelling reason to have a jungle akali build is: if you're gonna make an akali runepage, learning another role can only increase the number of chances you'll have to play akali  | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On March 17 2011 03:57 Flakes wrote: I feel like in the current metagame ganks don't ever happen earlygame unless the jungler initiates it. Akali ganks are pretty strong at 6 and later, though not so much earlier unless you take flash. If your team is running a laning or roaming tank (alistar, malph, shen, cho), akali can provide an AP jungler with ganking power, while being more useful in teamfights than shaco. A good comparison would probably be fiddlesticks (AP ganker, disruptable jungler, snowbally). There are probably very few teams that have such a niche to fill (like idk, ashe mid and kayle/teemo top or something, both need farm and your team still wants some AP). The most compelling reason to have a jungle akali build is: if you're gonna make an akali runepage, learning another role can only increase the number of chances you'll have to play akali Bolded part is absolutely wrong in allmost every way now that a roamer is popular. Shaco is useful indirectly in teamfights because he can push towers down and draw it to a 4v5 or just kill the guy going to disrupt him and continue pushing. And a sad part is that if the jungler is counterjungle able, ww, nunu, udyr and shaco (4 most popular junglers) are faster if they dont counterjungle, and still better if they DO counterjungle. Besides akali is storng against a carry in a solo lane while being countered against tanky solos (cho etc.). Look, what you're trying to say is just because ww/udyr can lane doesnt mean it's good, it has bad values which gimps you and it doesnt use the champion to its potential. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ. | ||
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Javadocs
United States60 Posts
On April 20 2011 03:20 gtrsrs wrote: it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ. What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her. Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment. I dont usually run Gunblade at all, or ever on her. I usually go Sheen -> Giant's Belt -> Rylai's with T1 boots in there somewhere, and maybe T2 boots before Rylai's if I have to go back early. I mostly go with the philosophy that the spell vamp from having 10 AD is enough, and once I get Sheen and I do a Q -> R -> autoattack, the enemy usually learns to stay away from me, allowing me to farm and preventing them from farming. Lichbane usually comes after Rylai's, and if the game isn't done by then, I'll build some defensive items like GA or BV. She can get shut down hard by a few things in the laning phase, making it a pain to farm. If she gets zoned off experience or if the enemy champion buys a pink ward for the lane are two of the biggest things. If she gets behind in her lane, its quite an uphill battle (when isnt it though). Theres pretty much no way she can get ganked with Shroud up (especially if she has flash). She doesn't have near the escapability of LeBlanc or Kassadin, but she definetly has the burst and passive to make up for it. She is probably one of the best, if not the best, snowball champions in the game. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On April 20 2011 06:43 Javadocs wrote: What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her. Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment. I dont usually run Gunblade at all, or ever on her. I usually go Sheen -> Giant's Belt -> Rylai's with T1 boots in there somewhere, and maybe T2 boots before Rylai's if I have to go back early. I mostly go with the philosophy that the spell vamp from having 10 AD is enough, and once I get Sheen and I do a Q -> R -> autoattack, the enemy usually learns to stay away from me, allowing me to farm and preventing them from farming. Lichbane usually comes after Rylai's, and if the game isn't done by then, I'll build some defensive items like GA or BV. She can get shut down hard by a few things in the laning phase, making it a pain to farm. If she gets zoned off experience or if the enemy champion buys a pink ward for the lane are two of the biggest things. If she gets behind in her lane, its quite an uphill battle (when isnt it though). Theres pretty much no way she can get ganked with Shroud up (especially if she has flash). She doesn't have near the escapability of LeBlanc or Kassadin, but she definetly has the burst and passive to make up for it. She is probably one of the best, if not the best, snowball champions in the game. Dat sheen rush, mana such an important stat. It was already mentioned in this topic that akali has problems nowadays because of tanky dps meta. She isn't too awesome vs tanky deeps champ, it's hard to argue with this fact | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On April 19 2011 18:03 Iplaythings wrote: Bolded part is absolutely wrong in allmost every way now that a roamer is popular. Shaco is useful indirectly in teamfights because he can push towers down and draw it to a 4v5 or just kill the guy going to disrupt him and continue pushing. And a sad part is that if the jungler is counterjungle able, ww, nunu, udyr and shaco (4 most popular junglers) are faster if they dont counterjungle, and still better if they DO counterjungle. Besides akali is storng against a carry in a solo lane while being countered against tanky solos (cho etc.). Look, what you're trying to say is just because ww/udyr can lane doesnt mean it's good, it has bad values which gimps you and it doesnt use the champion to its potential. I'm not sure what leads you to say that Warwick, Nunu, Udyr, et al are faster than Akali in the jungle. She can clear her side starting at Blue or golems in 3:45, 4:00-4:05 if you recall before red for boots and extra pots. She's not a slow or insecure jungler if built and played properly. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On April 20 2011 06:43 Javadocs wrote: What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her. Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment. i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5. renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity. corki hits you with phos in your shroud jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali | ||
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Javadocs
United States60 Posts
On April 20 2011 07:58 gtrsrs wrote: i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5. renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity. corki hits you with phos in your shroud jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali Half of your points could apply to any champion, and half of those abilities you mentioned are skillshots, which you can avoid. For example, Urgot's early game is really good versus any champion, and requires him to hit you with that goo before it locks on. I don't know how you can single out Akali when you could put any champion in the lane, and they could have trouble. Just because Akali starts picking up a lot at 5, doesn't mean she's horrible before that. You mention champions like Nasus and Renekton and their self-healing. Those are strong laners in general because they self-heal and any champion's harass would be pointless, but any good Akali would knows this and you're better off using Q to get last hits. And if you're going in for a kill or engagement, you should only engage when they are marked with your Q, and it's coming off cooldown, maximizing burst and doing a massive amount of damage to the enemy champion before they can finish their combo. Self-healing abilities? I take Ignite, as well as Flash, so I can disengage easily. Ryze is honestly a joke early game. If you're in a solo lane versus him, your Q trades equally with his, if not more in your favor, and his root is countered by Shroud. Never lost to a Ryze in a solo lane. Teemo can't throw down 10 Shrooms once he hits 6, and even when he hits 6, his mana regen isn't that great. He can't lay mushrooms and spam his Q on you and if you want a last hit on a creep without taking poison damage, use your Q. If he tries to zone, shroud and zone him back. It only takes about 2 rounds of Q -> R -> auto-attack to kill him around level 6 or 7 anyways, so do the damage, and back off, then repeat. There's no use chasing him. Caitlyn's Trap's graphic is huge. I don't know how you would run into it under your shroud, aside from stupid pathing issues that make you walk into it. Her Q is a skillshot, and has a fairly long wind-up animation, so unless you're a bad player in general, you shouldn't be getting hit that often by it. Corki's phospherous bomb can hit under shroud, sure. But if he did hit me with it, I most likely got a Q and auto-attack off. He would either do Valkyrie or Gatling Gun after that probably. If he follows with Gatling Gun, I'll just Q and auto-attack again because it would be up most likely, making this an even trade, or maybe in my favor. Jarvan is a tough lane for anyone. Like you said, his passive is really good, and it would hit any champion really hard. Luckily, Akali is one of the few champions that Jarvan can't really dive on a turret because of her burst and her shroud. A majority of your examples assume: 1) you're getting hit by the enemy skillshots a lot (you shouldn't be, and if you can, you should bait skillshots with your shroud to waste enemy mana/cooldowns) 2) you don't trade damage with the enemy champion (you should always trade damage with the enemy, unless they just self-heal up, then you shouldn't have been overextended in the first place) 3) you have to be in melee range to get last hits (Last hits > champion harass, so use Q to snag any last hits you can) 4) your shroud is less useful that it really is (If you have a skirmish with the enemy near minions, the minions will most likely turn to attack both you and the enemy champion. Shroud resets their aggro, while your minions keep hitting the enemy. This damage can add up quite a bit. On another note, her shroud can protect her from damage while she is CC'd if you cast it before the CC lands) It seems like any of your examples could be applied to any melee champion in a solo lane. Singed or Kassadin could just as easily be zoned early game by any of the ranged champions you mentioned. Kassadin only has his Q for harass, and he's even limited by mana. The current meta is getting better for Akali. Remember the AOE ult metagame? Akali was basically dead once she jumped in there. Then there is the tanky DPS metagame that was, again, bad for Akali, since she is not optimal versus beefy champions, but its been shifting slightly away from that because of the increased ratios and lower base damage on tanky DPS. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On April 20 2011 11:56 Javadocs wrote: Never lost to a Ryze in a solo lane. stopped reading here of course akali is good at 700 elo everyone is | ||
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