I'm not a high ELO so much of the playstyle will probably be incorrect but the rest of the info helps outline the general build of what you want.
Akali is not a Jungler for the ill prepared, you will need to be Level 30 with a full runepage, she runs a very fineline with jungling early on and you will be low quite often so map awareness and helpful teammates are a must.
Summoner Skills: Jungle - Smite/Ignite, Lane - Ignite/Flash Masteries: 21 0 9 - http://leaguecraft.com/masteries/0013441130300100000000000000031040001000000 Runes: Quints: 2 Flat AP, 1 Flat AD Red: Magic Pen Yellow: Flat Armour Blue: MRes P/lvl You'll need the quints like they are to be able to trigger your passive straight off with a D Blade.
Skill Order: QEQW then R > Q > E > W Item Build: Doran's Blade + 1 HP pot => Merc treads/Sorc shoes => Rylai's Crystal Scepter => Lich Bane/Hextech Gunblade or if you're being beaten up Banshee's Veil
Playstyle
Jungle: 1.> Small golems, smite after you've taken a hit or two 2.> Wraits, ignite the Blue one 3.> Wolf camp, big one first 4.> Golem, smite and focus the big guy then the littles, blue pill
Buy boots and some hp pots/ward & from here you make a decision if any lane is pushing then take red and gank or if not just clear minor camps again should have you hitting 5-ish take red should leave you near 6 go and gank you should hit 6 on the approach and can use 1 ulti to get close enough for a red hit from their it's fairly basic, if a gank is still not available, hit level 6 then go do Dragon.
Lane
Laning as Akali is fairly basic, you always want to be top or bottom as with the brush and your W you can always get close enough to Q + autoattack and get away only taking a hit or two, item build is the exact same, skilling the exact same, and just as a warning be wary of malphites they seem to be the bane of my existence as Akali >.<
Chasing and team fights are fairly straight forward, you do ridiculous burst with R + Q so you're generally gunning for squishies, R in once the fight has started drop a W then just throw Q + autoattack once, E, R after rinse and repeat until ACE.
One big thing to point out though your W DOES NOT PROTECT YOU FROM AOE OR SKILLSHOTS the amount of time i've watched someone drop a smoke ontop of Kennen and then get sliced apart by his ult + shuriken amazes me
If i've missed anything let me know, or if you wanna know more.
Kinda thinking AP blues would be more useful than MRes. Pretty sure with flat ap blues, 2 ap quints and the right masteries you trigger your second passive very early, lvl 2 or something (can't be bothered doing the exact math).
On November 16 2010 00:22 Senx wrote: whats her second passive?
And is boots + 3 hp pots a good starting item for her in a lane? Or should I go dorans blade there aswell
Her second passive activates once you get +20 AP, and gives you 10% of your physical damage in magic damage added to your autoattacks. and for every 5 AP you gain another 1%. You should ALWAYS start with doran's blade, no negotiation. You need your first passive anyway, so you want a damage item sooner or later, and you can't really get the +10 damage from a big item right away, since your first concern is getting more ap.
On November 15 2010 21:56 Dgiese wrote: Kinda thinking AP blues would be more useful than MRes. Pretty sure with flat ap blues, 2 ap quints and the right masteries you trigger your second passive very early, lvl 2 or something (can't be bothered doing the exact math).
I'm not hugely fussed on triggering that second passive that early as the time i'd be hitting level 2 anyway i'm igniting and having it triggered for me, it's more of a personal "feeling safe" thing for late game seeing as i'll generally be in the fray of it.
That and she generally has enough ap from items to insta-gib someone and get out with an ult charge or two left anyway.
Yeah, personal preference i guess. My personal philosophy with Akali is that I don't have to worry about Mres if the target is already dead. So AP or CD blues appeal more to my way of playing her.
As for the talk about always starting with Doran's blade - yes, grab it if you can get +4 attack from masteries / runes, this isn't always possible for lower level players. In which case Doran's blade isn't always a must grab.
I also suggest checking out 'Westrice', he's one of the few players that I've seen consistently play Akali at high ELO with great results. He runs 1 AD quint, 2 AP quints, Mpen red, Dodge yellow and flat AP blue. and probably picks up the extra AP and AD from brute force and the AP one I forget the name of.
I start with rejuvination bead and 6 health potions, because akali needs to last in attrition up to six, and then start threatening with a burst.
But this is for solo top akali.
11AD via 9marks and a quint 2HP quints 9 dodge seals 9 mres/level glyphs
9/21/0
Ignite/Flash
You can't farm much until 6, BUT you can zone really hard using your smoke bomb by using it behind his enemy creeps so that they have to eat a Q + proc if they wanna last-hit.
On November 16 2010 09:51 Dgiese wrote: Yeah, personal preference i guess. My personal philosophy with Akali is that I don't have to worry about Mres if the target is already dead. So AP or CD blues appeal more to my way of playing her.
As for the talk about always starting with Doran's blade - yes, grab it if you can get +4 attack from masteries / runes, this isn't always possible for lower level players. In which case Doran's blade isn't always a must grab.
I also suggest checking out 'Westrice', he's one of the few players that I've seen consistently play Akali at high ELO with great results. He runs 1 AD quint, 2 AP quints, Mpen red, Dodge yellow and flat AP blue. and probably picks up the extra AP and AD from brute force and the AP one I forget the name of.
westrice is the best akali player i've seen. he runs exhaust/flash as well
On November 15 2010 21:56 Dgiese wrote: Kinda thinking AP blues would be more useful than MRes. Pretty sure with flat ap blues, 2 ap quints and the right masteries you trigger your second passive very early, lvl 2 or something (can't be bothered doing the exact math).
I've tried it both ways. The main benefit to having AP blues is you can get rid of ignite for flash/ghost (flash actually works better on her).
Getting rid of ignite though will slow down your jungling a little bit and will put off your dragon for a level or two. Normally, with red buff, ignite/smite, doran's blade + blasting wand, + HP pot, you can do dragon at level 5. Without it, your jungling path will force you to wait until level 7.
On November 16 2010 22:30 barbsq wrote: whatever happened to rageblade on akali, i was under the impression that it was core... am i completely wrong?
I always get rageblade on akali. First item besides boots.
Rageblade is really strong on Akali, the only problem is that Rylai's and Lichbane are stronger. And after Rylai's + Lichbane, Zhonya's is just better than almost anything. I've played a lot with Rageblade Akali, and don't get me wrong, it's really strong. Just not as strong as her core rylai lichbane.
I usually spec defense and take cleanse/flash on Akali. She's a killing machine as is, and unless you're jungling or counting on the ignite mastery to give you your second early passive, (unnecessary imho), then you don't really need ignite. You do ridiculous damage naturally, so your spells/runes/masteries can be used to help stay alive.
Core build is dorans blade, sheen, rylais, merc treads. After that you can more or less build whatever you feel like. Rageblade is great, hextech is fun, lichbane is wonderful, etc.
On November 16 2010 23:31 Papvin wrote: Rageblade is really strong on Akali, the only problem is that Rylai's and Lichbane are stronger. And after Rylai's + Lichbane, Zhonya's is just better than almost anything. I've played a lot with Rageblade Akali, and don't get me wrong, it's really strong. Just not as strong as her core rylai lichbane.
the only thing with rageblade is tho, that its a midgame item, which means you're getting it first, no way you can delay it for rylai+lichbane, so if thats better, i guess thats that.
I recently decided her smoke bomb is too awesome, so I need to become an Akali pro.
Stalking Westrice's profile (400+ ranked games with akali, over 60% winrate, averaging 11.4 kills per game o_0 ) reveals his most recent game: 21/9/0 with dodge yellows, typical red mpen with some AD and AP runes for the rest to trigger both passives right off the bat. He had ignite mastery as well., so I'm guessing he runs ignite/flash.
Requirements to trigger both of Akali's passive benefits: 10 AD, 20 AP. 2 flat AD Quints at 2.25 apiece provide 4.5 AD, Doran's Blade provides 4, and the Brute Force offensive mastery provides 3. You can't get there without 2 flat AD quints or some combination of AD quints, marks, seals, and/or glyphs.
The easiest way to begin a match with 20 AP is to get 10 AP from your rune page and take the Burning Embers offensive mastery, which provides 10 AP when Ignite is on cooldown. I personally prefer flat AP glyphs and a single AP quint, which is slight overkill, but allows me to use armor seals and Mpen or Apen marks. 20 AP can be done entirely in your rune page, or you can purchase an amplifying tome and get all the AD from your rune page and masteries. This passive benefit isn't as important since it's only bonus damage, so most top Akali players won't worry about starting it at level 1 if they will be laning. However, it's fairly critical for junglers.
My typical Akali build is boots (Sorceror's, speed, or Merc treads are all reasonable, and 'zerker's aren't awful either), Rylai's, Sheen, Hextech Revolver, then build into the Gunblade and a Lichbane. A Mejai's may fit in there somewhere depending on how the game is going and how the other team handles Akali. The Gunblade, incidentally, was already quite good on her... now it's exceptionally so, to the point that it's often worth getting before finishing Lichbane.
Rageblade has all the right stats, but doesn't work well on Akali... she has no way to maintain high stacks, and because she's an assassin character focused on burst damage, she probably won't ever get to full stacks, ensuring that she never really gets the full benefit from it. Consider that her full burst routine consists of approximately 5-8 actions, so that by the time she hits full stacks from Rageblade, she should have finished her attack and be exiting the fight. The new Malady is fantastic for her, and I've found both Zonya's and a void staff to be extremely viable options should the game somehow last that long. Abyssal Scepter may also be a consideration if you're dying in shroud to a lot of magical AoE.
On November 22 2010 02:18 myopia wrote: 'nother westrice note: he doesn't have rageblade in any of the 3 akali games in his history. In fact the only AD he has is the single dblade.
He does seem to get gunblade at some point and replace the dblade if the game goes on long enough, but otherwise that's the only ad component I recall seeing in his builds.
Recently I've been trying out Mejai's -> Rylai's kind of builds... and it works pretty well. Akali Is a beast compared to most other heroes when she hit's 6 - she doesn't need any extra help from items to kill someone at this stage. Kill your lane, and then go look for a gank / tower diver opportunity, after that b and upgrade boots into sorc boots and you're all good to start snowballin like a champ.
On November 21 2010 21:13 Dgiese wrote: Actually Doran's blade gives +6 damage... not +4 (you're thinking of lifesteal).
6+3+2.25 > 10 last time I checked.
Yep, you're right, I was thinking of lifesteal... I played Akali earlier and saw that and was kicking myself.
Oh, and Westrice doesn't get AD because AD does very little for Akali. She auto attacks harder, sure, but AP does the same thing because of her passive, and also boosts her skill damage.
So new supposed PTR patch notes is going to change Dblade to +8 dmg, 100 health, 3 lifesteal.
I was thinking of running 1 flat dmg quint, 2 flat ap quints, Mpen marks, and ap/lvl yellows and blues. If I go 9/21, you'll unlock the ap passive at level 4. What are your thought on that build?
On November 24 2010 04:40 Darkchylde wrote: So new supposed PTR patch notes is going to change Dblade to +8 dmg, 100 health, 3 lifesteal.
I was thinking of running 1 flat dmg quint, 2 flat ap quints, Mpen marks, and ap/lvl yellows and blues. If I go 9/21, you'll unlock the ap passive at level 4. What are your thought on that build?
Back to 21 defensive akali again fuck yeah!!!!! "Metagame nerf" buffing Akali, how wonderful xD. Though, I'm not completely sure, but I recon that flat ap is better. I personally run ap/level because, well, I'm poor.
Yeah, but the way I figure it, Akali doesn't do much until level 6, just Q and shroud for last hits and harass anyways. Level 6 is when Akali starts to do stuff and conveniently ap/lvl surpasses flat AP at level 6.
I love that there was recently an akali free week... cause now more akali's are popping up on enemy teams, and for the most part they are easy pickings. It fills me with glee each time I solo akali and the enemy duo's and I hit 6 and proceed to find her and punish her for not grabbing a solo lane.
Here's an updated video for Jungle Akali post-109. She can also do straight clears, doesn't actually *need* to recall before doing Lizard (but there's little reason not to), and can even grab a ward right off the bat if necessary.
On January 21 2011 01:02 Seuss wrote: Here's an updated video for Jungle Akali post-109. She can also do straight clears, doesn't actually *need* to recall before doing Lizard (but there's little reason not to), and can even grab a ward right off the bat if necessary.
and for those of you who dont want to waste four minutes seeing what can be summarized in four lines (seriously why do people make realtime jungle videos):
runes: flat ad reds; flat ap quints and blues, flat armor yellows 14/11/5 masteries; key points include the ap and ad masteries in offense, both damage reducing masteries in defense, and 1/4 xp mastery cloth + 5 pot; ghost + smite. Skills are not mentioned and leveled using keyboard shortcuts but let's assume it's qeqwqr route: double golems (smite one) -> wraiths -> wolves -> blue (smite it) -> double golems -> wraiths (smite it) -> wolves -> blue pill -> red (smite it). Some kiting goes on but it's entirely unnecessary and akali is above 75% health like the entire time
I make my videos real time because the people who can jungle from watching a sped up video generally don't need a video at all. There's also a lot of little optimizations I do which, while technically unnecessary, save time and health.
I actually would have been even higher on health at the end but I forgot my last potion when making the video.
The route is the most efficient path to level 6 through jungling. She's more than capable of the standard routes, but since her ganking ability goes crazy once she hits 6 this is what I consider her basic route.
On January 21 2011 10:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Horribly inefficient route lol
On January 21 2011 10:24 Seuss wrote: The route is the most efficient path to level 6 through jungling. She's more than capable of the standard routes, but since her ganking ability goes crazy once she hits 6 this is what I consider her basic route.
I am interested in the veracity of these claims, but too lazy to test. /waits for opinions from experienced junglers.
On January 21 2011 10:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Horribly inefficient route lol
Yeah I'm pretty curious, what's so inefficient about it? He starts killing the small camps like the instant they begin to come up, the only thing he doesn't kill for a long period of time is red buff which he grabs later for the level 6 gank.
Unless you're inserting some counterjungling in there and creeping the opponent's side I don't see how you can possibly get more efficient.
On January 22 2011 02:53 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote: Why jungle with her? She's so good in lane and can deny most carries/anyone without a stun.
Solo lanes are obviously better than jungling, but jungling as Akali I can keep up with solos in levels and be ahead of duos on farm while also being permanently mia. She's very strong in either case.
Akali isn't known as a strong jungler largely because 90% of people who use her to jungle are fixated on her late game and make bad compromises on runes and masteries. You can see the results of this in the video responses to Stonewall's Akali challenge he did months ago. The entries are practically unbearable in how bad they are.
I don't know. I'll still stand by my opinions that champions like Akali and Malphite, while able to jungle, are not best suited for it. They shine more in lane, especially with Akali who doesn't need mana.
Conversely, it's like trying to lane with Amumu or WW. Just cause you can doesn't mean you should.
Do you find you have a problem with energy normally? I did at one point, but then I cut E out of my diet during combo's and saved it for farming, except in limited circumstances.
If I proc Q each time I cast it then I find I don't really hurt for energy, even in team fights. E is the main energy dump, and it's not nearly as damage to energy efficient as Q.
Red - Flat Attack Damage Yellow - Flat Attack Damage Blue - Flat Ability Power Quints - Flat Ability Power Masteries
11-19-0 Down to Spellpen, down to Ardor level 2. Summoner Spells
Flash, Cleanse
Spell Order
QWEQQR
Guide
Open Doran's Shield. Use Q to last hit your way to level 2. Congrats, you just won the lane. Proceed last hit, dropping your W whenever your minions get low. They can either take a shit ton of damage or get zoned at this point.
If you have last hit responsibly, you should have enough gold to bluepill for a belt right before you hit 6. Be patient until you get 3 charges on your dash, harassing their balls off whenever you get a chance. At about half health, dive them without mercy. Cleanse early, flash late.
Now gank, and gank hard. For the next ten minutes. Then go browse TL while their team infights you to victory.
After checking up on the newest threads go kill Baron, push mid and win.
QWE is better damage for when you drop the smoke behind their minion wave. I'll still go QWQ against someone like Vlad or Sivir where each harass counts that much more and denying is out of the picture.
On January 23 2011 04:05 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote: QWE is better damage for when you drop the smoke behind their minion wave. I'll still go QWQ against someone like Vlad or Sivir where each harass counts that much more and denying is out of the picture.
For level one E you get 30 damage (ignoring AD / AP ratios) on a short range with a higher cooldown, and the energy is not replenished. For level 2 Q you get +25 damage (potentially +50 total when the mark is triggered), with a much more useful range than e, and a low enough cooldown that you can Q (wait a couple seconds) -> W -> Q -> Q -> W ends.
Level 2 Q vs Level 1 E does more damage if you proc the mark (which you really should be doing alot of the time), has a much more useful range, and replenishes energy. In my mind there is no contest between QWQ and QWE.
Akali's E scales off of all AD. With SYNZIG's setup E will do 30 + 7.6 (25.6 AP * .3) + 44.6 (74.4 AD * .6) = 82.2 damage. The difference between Rank 1 Q and Rank 2 is 2 * 25 damage. So without factoring in armor and resistance, SYNZING's harass does 32 more damage by taking E before putting a second rank in Q.
32 more damage? I'd really still rather the upgraded Q, it's just so much more realistic to expect to be able to use it. Running out of shroud to proc Q and then cast an E is longer that I'd want to expose myself for. In terms of straight up burst, yes E is better, but I still feel Q is a more realistic leveling choice (I don't expect my opponents to keep allowing me to get away with E's, whereas they have alot less choice regarding Q's).
I run AP quints, mpen reds, hp/lvl yellows and a mix of ap/lvl and flat ap (to trigger passive at lvl 2), so E wouldn't be as good with my setup as with yours.
But I mean if that's the setup and playstyle you like then thats cool. different strokes for different folks.
Does this SYNZIG guy have a stream? I'd be interested in seeing how he plays her.
okay so i've always been terrified of akali so i decided to learn her and she's been good to me so far
i don't have any IP right now tho so i'm just using MS quints, Mpen red, ar/level yellow, MR/level blue. ghost/ignite, 16/14/0
in lane i've found you're better off just farming and outright killing them at 6 or 7 than trying to harass a bunch, but i could be wrong about that
my big question is how do you beat cho'gath in lane, or at least not lose horribly? all his shit is aoe and hits you in shroud, including vorpal spikes -__- and his imba passive makes harass worthless. last game i went for a last hit, he hit me three times (with vorpal spikes) while i was doing it, hit level 3 on a creep, silenced me as i ran into my tower, flashed in, vorpal'd, ruptured and ghosted out. fucking 3 minutes into the game i'm already behind 2 levels and getting crushed :C then annie came and ganked and they tower dived me for a nice 0-2 start, fuck cho'gath. i ended up getting 7 kills in a row after that but regardless, cho crushed me in lane. how to win against him?
I guess you won't do much against Cho (after all he IS one of the best laners), but you should at least survive. Afaik your shroud cloaks you even if you only stand in it with like half your body. Or you move in and out because it takes a while until you actually become visible. I guess someone who actually plays Akali can help you more with this, but you probably should test it yourself anyways to get a feel for the actual stealth range.
So do you guys Prefer to do 1 AD quint + D blade so you can pick defense masteries, or go straight AP Quints/Blues and pick up the AD in the offense tree instead?
EDIT: nm, I couldnt reach 20 AP without all 3 quints =X
On January 23 2011 17:13 Dgiese wrote: 32 more damage? I'd really still rather the upgraded Q, it's just so much more realistic to expect to be able to use it. Running out of shroud to proc Q and then cast an E is longer that I'd want to expose myself for. In terms of straight up burst, yes E is better, but I still feel Q is a more realistic leveling choice (I don't expect my opponents to keep allowing me to get away with E's, whereas they have alot less choice regarding Q's).
I run AP quints, mpen reds, hp/lvl yellows and a mix of ap/lvl and flat ap (to trigger passive at lvl 2), so E wouldn't be as good with my setup as with yours.
But I mean if that's the setup and playstyle you like then thats cool. different strokes for different folks.
Does this SYNZIG guy have a stream? I'd be interested in seeing how he plays her.
My play style is a closely guarded family secret. But perhaps I will set up a stream.
EDIT:
As for opening Dblade, I can't agree with the notion at all. I've tried it quite a few times with little to no luck. Dshield is imba and you can proc your passives through runes. Dshield + defensive tree is way more survivability and you don't lose out on any damage.
On January 23 2011 17:13 Dgiese wrote: 32 more damage? I'd really still rather the upgraded Q, it's just so much more realistic to expect to be able to use it. Running out of shroud to proc Q and then cast an E is longer that I'd want to expose myself for. In terms of straight up burst, yes E is better, but I still feel Q is a more realistic leveling choice (I don't expect my opponents to keep allowing me to get away with E's, whereas they have alot less choice regarding Q's).
I run AP quints, mpen reds, hp/lvl yellows and a mix of ap/lvl and flat ap (to trigger passive at lvl 2), so E wouldn't be as good with my setup as with yours.
But I mean if that's the setup and playstyle you like then thats cool. different strokes for different folks.
Does this SYNZIG guy have a stream? I'd be interested in seeing how he plays her.
My play style is a closely guarded family secret. But perhaps I will set up a stream.
EDIT:
As for opening Dblade, I can't agree with the notion at all. I've tried it quite a few times with little to no luck. Dshield is imba and you can proc your passives through runes. Dshield + defensive tree is way more survivability and you don't lose out on any damage.
Oh, not to be rude but I thought SYNZIG was some high Elo player reputed for their akali (i.e. Westrice). I mean I'm pretty much just trying to hijack what I've seen as Westrice's playstyle to the best of my ability.
I haven't run the math on AD runes, but it seems like an odd tradeoff just to get Doran's shield. I think I'd rather to grab Mpen and dodge or HP from those runes rather than using them just to ensure I get to start with a Doran's shield. And I'm a believer in running 21 offense because of Akali's nature (extreme burst). In my view survivability isn't as important as burstability.
On January 24 2011 07:28 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote:
On January 23 2011 17:13 Dgiese wrote: 32 more damage? I'd really still rather the upgraded Q, it's just so much more realistic to expect to be able to use it. Running out of shroud to proc Q and then cast an E is longer that I'd want to expose myself for. In terms of straight up burst, yes E is better, but I still feel Q is a more realistic leveling choice (I don't expect my opponents to keep allowing me to get away with E's, whereas they have alot less choice regarding Q's).
I run AP quints, mpen reds, hp/lvl yellows and a mix of ap/lvl and flat ap (to trigger passive at lvl 2), so E wouldn't be as good with my setup as with yours.
But I mean if that's the setup and playstyle you like then thats cool. different strokes for different folks.
Does this SYNZIG guy have a stream? I'd be interested in seeing how he plays her.
My play style is a closely guarded family secret. But perhaps I will set up a stream.
EDIT:
As for opening Dblade, I can't agree with the notion at all. I've tried it quite a few times with little to no luck. Dshield is imba and you can proc your passives through runes. Dshield + defensive tree is way more survivability and you don't lose out on any damage.
Oh, not to be rude but I thought SYNZIG was some high Elo player reputed for their akali (i.e. Westrice). I mean I'm pretty much just trying to hijack what I've seen as Westrice's playstyle to the best of my ability.
I haven't run the math on AD runes, but it seems like an odd tradeoff just to get Doran's shield. I think I'd rather to grab Mpen and dodge or HP from those runes rather than using them just to ensure I get to start with a Doran's shield. And I'm a believer in running 21 offense because of Akali's nature (extreme burst). In my view survivability isn't as important as burstability.
rofl, you seek information not from a point of math or experience but simply from players you've heard of. gj.
I'll go hit for hit with your or this westrice's build any day of the week. Personal experience > fame.
On January 24 2011 07:28 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote:
On January 23 2011 17:13 Dgiese wrote: 32 more damage? I'd really still rather the upgraded Q, it's just so much more realistic to expect to be able to use it. Running out of shroud to proc Q and then cast an E is longer that I'd want to expose myself for. In terms of straight up burst, yes E is better, but I still feel Q is a more realistic leveling choice (I don't expect my opponents to keep allowing me to get away with E's, whereas they have alot less choice regarding Q's).
I run AP quints, mpen reds, hp/lvl yellows and a mix of ap/lvl and flat ap (to trigger passive at lvl 2), so E wouldn't be as good with my setup as with yours.
But I mean if that's the setup and playstyle you like then thats cool. different strokes for different folks.
Does this SYNZIG guy have a stream? I'd be interested in seeing how he plays her.
My play style is a closely guarded family secret. But perhaps I will set up a stream.
EDIT:
As for opening Dblade, I can't agree with the notion at all. I've tried it quite a few times with little to no luck. Dshield is imba and you can proc your passives through runes. Dshield + defensive tree is way more survivability and you don't lose out on any damage.
Oh, not to be rude but I thought SYNZIG was some high Elo player reputed for their akali (i.e. Westrice). I mean I'm pretty much just trying to hijack what I've seen as Westrice's playstyle to the best of my ability.
I haven't run the math on AD runes, but it seems like an odd tradeoff just to get Doran's shield. I think I'd rather to grab Mpen and dodge or HP from those runes rather than using them just to ensure I get to start with a Doran's shield. And I'm a believer in running 21 offense because of Akali's nature (extreme burst). In my view survivability isn't as important as burstability.
rofl, you seek information not from a point of math or experience but simply from players you've heard of. gj.
I'll go hit for hit with your or this westrice's build any day of the week. Personal experience > fame.
This isn't true at all and I don't appreciate your condescending attitude. This is from personal experience trying his build, and also from seeing how his build works at high levels of play.
Because quite frankly, a build based on someone's experience who isn't playing at high Elo is about as much use as a cock flavoured lollipop. If you're not playing against consistently good players then it means you can get away with a tonne of stuff.
If you've been keeping up with the conversation you'll actually notice I've posted all my reasoning for playing the way I do, but when I happen to mention that I'm following the methods of the undisputed best Akali player in the game you laugh at me. When I'm playing SC2 or BW I will shamelessly copy the build orders of players FAAAAR better than me, all in all it's a great way to learn and improve your skills.
If you wanna prove the merits of your build, then challenge some of the good players from TL. There's a distinct difference between your opinion and mine, the opinion that I hold has been shown to work at high levels of play, yours is currently untested.
so i've been playing a ton of akali and for a while i was stomping everyone in top lane but then i just realized i was playing against players worse than myself now that i'm playing against more competent people i'm kinda struggling in a lot of matchups
who exactly CAN akali crush pretty regularly? i assumed vlad would be a pretty easy lane but his E hits me in shroud so i can't really force him off creeps. i got the first kill on him but he was wayyyy out-cs'ing me at that point morde was really really hard for me too. cone hitting in shroud is annoying too corki crushed me nuff said i even struggled against anivia
On January 31 2011 16:51 gtrsrs wrote: so i've been playing a ton of akali and for a while i was stomping everyone in top lane but then i just realized i was playing against players worse than myself now that i'm playing against more competent people i'm kinda struggling in a lot of matchups
who exactly CAN akali crush pretty regularly? i assumed vlad would be a pretty easy lane but his E hits me in shroud so i can't really force him off creeps. i got the first kill on him but he was wayyyy out-cs'ing me at that point morde was really really hard for me too. cone hitting in shroud is annoying too corki crushed me nuff said i even struggled against anivia
halp me i don't use ignite is that my problem
try to juke aoe (vs vlad and corki is much harder, but you can duck out of shroud and have ~1s of invisibility) with shroud
use ignite to get first blood by 6 at latest
never slow down your csing while you apply your aggression, use the deaggro and invis on shroud to switch from harass mode -> csing mode. the ability to cs while harassing is what distances great akalis from mediocre "i make laning a bitch but am worthless by level 10" akalis.
On January 31 2011 16:51 gtrsrs wrote: so i've been playing a ton of akali and for a while i was stomping everyone in top lane but then i just realized i was playing against players worse than myself now that i'm playing against more competent people i'm kinda struggling in a lot of matchups
who exactly CAN akali crush pretty regularly? i assumed vlad would be a pretty easy lane but his E hits me in shroud so i can't really force him off creeps. i got the first kill on him but he was wayyyy out-cs'ing me at that point morde was really really hard for me too. cone hitting in shroud is annoying too corki crushed me nuff said i even struggled against anivia
halp me i don't use ignite is that my problem
I used to use flash ghost on her (now I run flash ignite), the ignite does help Akali, but probably not in the areas you're having trouble, unless you plan on using it really early... which may help? I dunno.
AoE against her shroud is fucking annoying (i.e. Corki), I've found that trying not to allow them to dictate the tempo of the lane helps a lot. Just trying to target them in between cooldowns etc, like if a Corki is trying to phospho bomb you, run back wait for CD rinse and repeat then you wanna make use of the times his shit is on CD.
If you get a chance check out some Westrice VODs, I remember when I first watched them i picked up on how many chances to be aggressive I was missing despite being pre lvl 6 (And now I'm in love with QW harass.)
Hm, where are Westrice VODs? I didn't know such a thing existed. I'd be especially interested to see him lane against Corki. I played Akali for the first few times this week, and wow I just couldn't do anything against Corki. I should have asked for a lane switch probably...
i dont understand how its even possible to lane as akali against corki. corki breaks stronger heroes than akali in lane, and the fact that all his shit is aoe makes it worse
assuming a competent corki player that is. altho mybe the brushes @ top might make a difference, who knows
camp brush, cs with q as best as you can. Shroud if he Valkyries on you. Last hit at tower if corki pushes the lane. Take rejuv bead and mass pots if you need to. Once level 6, read corkis phosphorus bomb and jump on him with r to dodge the bomb, burst him, and shroud to disengage.
Edit: corkis burst come way slower than akali"s, and he doesn't have a stun to give him burst priority. If he misses his phoshorus bomb, akali can have her way with him.
I've finally found a way to beat Vlad solo mid. Wait until level 5, go back and buy a red elixer. Skirmish with him. Once he pools, shroud up and chug red. Profit!
I think against vlad, you can just shroud behind his minions and q auto everytime he tries to cs. Time your shrouding to maximize the amount if creeps he would lose, like when several of them are below half health.
While denying him from levels 2-4 is notably easy, Vlad hitting six usually means a dead Akali. I've tried everything I could think of, and red elixir seems like my only option.
Sure, if he stays back and my denying is 100% successful there won't be a problem. Buying an HP belt pre-ult is more or less a won lane.. however, if the guy you're playing against is resourceful he's a tough nut to crack.
I've played the match-up a lot, and it seems like resorting to a gimmick is the most efficient means of dealing with him.
On January 31 2011 21:17 Jaksiel wrote: Hm, where are Westrice VODs? I didn't know such a thing existed. I'd be especially interested to see him lane against Corki. I played Akali for the first few times this week, and wow I just couldn't do anything against Corki. I should have asked for a lane switch probably...
I saw them on AoNEmpatic's owned tv thing. He's streamed at solomid and thats their channel thing.
On February 01 2011 01:34 Juicyfruit wrote: camp brush, cs with q as best as you can. Shroud if he Valkyries on you. Last hit at tower if corki pushes the lane. Take rejuv bead and mass pots if you need to. Once level 6, read corkis phosphorus bomb and jump on him with r to dodge the bomb, burst him, and shroud to disengage.
Edit: corkis burst come way slower than akali"s, and he doesn't have a stun to give him burst priority. If he misses his phoshorus bomb, akali can have her way with him.
... shroud if he jumps on you? what for? so all his shit can hit you in the shroud? if he jumps on you you run have to away unless you can kill him without using auto attacks on account of you're blinded
read his phosphorous bomb? how in the hell are you going to dodge an instant-cast aoe spell?
On February 01 2011 02:10 Juicyfruit wrote: I think against vlad, you can just shroud behind his minions and q auto everytime he tries to cs. Time your shrouding to maximize the amount if creeps he would lose, like when several of them are below half health.
i just find it really hard to trade hits with vlad because he can regen his health and usually packs ignite, and i can't do either. if you try to zone him he's just going to use his E on the edge of your shroud. multiple Es will do more damage than your Q and he won't ever get in range for you to proc the second part of Q. every time you pop to Q or when the shroud falls, he'll use his Q as well.
have you even played akali or is this just more tapioca theorycrafting
On February 01 2011 02:02 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote: I've finally found a way to beat Vlad solo mid. Wait until level 5, go back and buy a red elixer. Skirmish with him. Once he pools, shroud up and chug red. Profit!
definitely gonna try this next time i get a vlad, it seems like quite a good idea. do you try to wait til 6 to engage even with the red pot? also do you usually have enough CS to grab a null mantle too at that point or just the red pot and some potions?
I try -not- to engage him at 6. My idea is to kill him (or at least send him back) at five, so by the time he comes back I have my ult with max charges. It really depends on the player skill of the Vlad (and his familiarity with the Akali). The idea came from a recent game where Vlad and his jungle Shaco were 100% dedicated to keeping me off the creeps.. but in most situations, you should easily have enough for elixir + mantle + pots. Though if you're free farming and hit 1100, definitely go for the belt. It makes him (and almost every other hero in the game) mostly irrelevant.
After losing to one too many Vlads, I noticed that their pool was a trump card.. We would exchange blows early on and it seemed like whenever I'd die, he would be at dangerously low health. Using his confidence against him is always a good thing.
How do you guys handle the Anivia match-up without a hundred gank attempt from your jungle? She's such a thorn in my side.
The shroud is huge. You shroud when corki jumps on you so that you can juke him and not eat autoattacks.
Reading phosphorus bomb as in guess when he will use it for cs or harass. If he just holds onto it then he is letting you farm more than he should.
Vlads e has pretty bad range and he doesn't really know where you are within your cloud. Standing on the edge spamming level 1 e isn't that effective. You will deny him quite a bit.
On February 01 2011 02:58 gtrsrs wrote: read his phosphorous bomb? how in the hell are you going to dodge an instant-cast aoe spell?
Probably should be more like "read the corki", as in: Know when he is about to cast Phosphorus and R just a couple of frames earlier. Human reaction time, blah, blah, he will still cast Bomb at the place where you were before. However, if the Corki does the same and instead only "fakes" a Phosphorus, you will engage on him and he still gets to cast it on you.
On February 01 2011 03:28 Juicyfruit wrote: The shroud is huge. You shroud when corki jumps on you so that you can juke him and not eat autoattacks.
Reading phosphorus bomb as in guess when he will use it for cs or harass. If he just holds onto it then he is letting you farm more than he should.
Vlads e has pretty bad range and he doesn't really know where you are within your cloud. Standing on the edge spamming level 1 e isn't that effective. You will deny him quite a bit.
you don't shroud when corki jumps on you. you're dumb. but that's beside the point. corki won't ever jump on you. he'll just keep farming and every time you try to harass he'll outharass you... and keep farming anyways.
vlad's e has a really good range just leave this topic please
Should Akali even take a solo lane? Honestly I find her to be a monster in a duo lane with almost any other champ.
Certain champs can just totally shut her down in a solo lane, (as discussed above). Does she really benefit that much from the solo exp than your other potentially stronger carries?
On February 01 2011 04:00 Haemonculus wrote: Should Akali even take a solo lane? Honestly I find her to be a monster in a duo lane with almost any other champ.
Certain champs can just totally shut her down in a solo lane, (as discussed above). Does she really benefit that much from the solo exp than your other potentially stronger carries?
She, like irelia, is really good at assassinating carries and staying alive. She's a fairly competant laner if she plays conservatively and has the correct runes and masteries to abuse her passive.
On February 01 2011 03:28 Juicyfruit wrote: The shroud is huge. You shroud when corki jumps on you so that you can juke him and not eat autoattacks.
Reading phosphorus bomb as in guess when he will use it for cs or harass. If he just holds onto it then he is letting you farm more than he should.
Vlads e has pretty bad range and he doesn't really know where you are within your cloud. Standing on the edge spamming level 1 e isn't that effective. You will deny him quite a bit.
you don't shroud when corki jumps on you. you're dumb. but that's beside the point. corki won't ever jump on you. he'll just keep farming and every time you try to harass he'll outharass you... and keep farming anyways.
vlad's e has a really good range just leave this topic please
When Corki jumps on you (and he will, pre-6), you can either
- shroud, get armor bonus and avoid autoattack damage + slow him OR - not shroud, attempt to fight him while being 35% blinded or run away and eat shots while all his AoE spells hit you anyways.
Why would you ever not shroud when corki (or anyone for that matter) forcibly engage you?
Vlad's E doesn't hit the entire length of akali's shroud. If he tries to stand on the edge and blindly shoot E while you're on the other side, he will fire a blank. Alternatively, he can go INTO the shroud to try and fight you but he'll obviously lose. Either way he'll lose out on farm whereas you don't, since you are in control of when to shroud.
I always ran cleanse/flash on Akali. Obviously I'm not as good as a lot of the folks here, but I had plenty of success with that combo.
Cleanse is nice because in the event you do get stunned, you're in a lot of trouble. And then Flash is still one of the best utility spells imho. Shroud + flash can get you out of almost any gank, or set you up for a surprise R+combo that people won't think they're in range for.
I can't imagine she'd need ignite. She's a soulless killing machine already. Though I suppose it's good in a solo lane.
I run flash/cleanse, always and forever. Now that exhaust hinders abilities so much, I find cleanse much more useful. While ghost may be nice in an escaping situation, your ult can function in a very similar manner.
It also gives you an added layer of gank-protection, which is one of Akali's worst weaknesses. That Rammus/Shen taunt or Shaco box would normally mean death, even with your smoke up.
One of the most fun things about playing Akali is escaping from terrible situations, imo. Cleanse, smoke, charge at a creep.. so good.
See, the problem is that you are trying to bait people to put you into these bad situations to begin with, just so you can escape with cleanse. I am not going to argue that cleanse is bad, but the reason why a lot of higher-end akalis run ignite is because she has strong burst but runs on a very limited steam (3 ults and limited energy). I think Westrice and such others operate under the principle: killing someone is the best form of damage mitigation, especially with the way her ult recharges upon kills or assists - you really do want your enemies to die as fast as possible. That's why they opt for ignite instead of two defensive summoner spells.
Not sure what you mean. If anything, if you're playing at a level with poor communication, then your own ganks will be that much stronger, enemy cc's will be far less synchronized, and juking with shroud will be much easier.
And ignite will allow you to carry harder by aiding you in your quest to feed off your lane partner as much as possible. Regardless of how bad your team is, with excellent use of shroud, bushes, and your ultimate, you can usually juke scrubs (and even better players). In situations against more than 1 enemy, you should always throw down shroud the instant you see any major cc that you don't think you'll be able to avoid.
Don't know why cleanse would allow you to be more aggressive in lane, seeing as its cooldown is far more long than most feasible cc mechanisms'. If cc in lane is a problem, get mercs. Combined with your shroud and ult, you should be very safe against cc even without cleanse. Ignite is usually that last step in the combo that leaves them dying next to their tower / the way to fuck over swain / mundo / whatever insane regen you run against (or soraka ult).
iirc ignite used at level 2 will be off cooldown by level 6, if you can count creeps and ignite when they would hit either 2 or 3, you can halve their level up healing bonus and then have it back for a level 6 kill
On February 01 2011 03:13 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote: How do you guys handle the Anivia match-up without a hundred gank attempt from your jungle? She's such a thorn in my side.
Making it through early levels is key, gotta play passive until you get shroud up (Maybe taking W first might be a decent idea. But with W Q you can get good harass on her without leaving yourself open, her stun is pretty easy to dodge, and pre 6 she has no other way to give you 'frozen' status so her other nuke doesn't hit as hard.
Other than that at 6, burst her before she bursts you. You've both got enough burst to kill each other really quickly, you've gotta make sure you force the issue on your terms instead of letting her setup with her ulti.
Even if you give away a death laning against aniv, you'll still have the burst to take her out when you hit 6 (with 2 R charges). However we have very different builds, this is one of the matchups where it feels like QWQ is much more helpful than QWE.
On February 01 2011 07:41 gtrsrs wrote: i just spent 10k IP on an akali runepage i better fucking crush with her now or i'm gonna be PISSED
Out of curiousity what was the page that you bought?
As for Ignite Vs. Cleanse. I personally run Ignite, in laning I don't think cleanse is really all that useful. You should be able to evade a gank just fine with flash and shroud, otherwise you were probably overextended. Ignite gives her that extra oomph, and when it's on CD it makes her other shit hit harder, it's never not going to be useful in a 1v1.
In teamfights is where cleanse would be useful.... however you generally want to try and avoid those stuns anyway. Try and wait until they blow them on other people.... if they're saving their cooldowns just for you then your team is going to have a much easier time. And when you do decide to jump in, drop a shroud quickly. Something like Q -> R -> proc Q -> W -> look for another Q + R that won't put you outside your shroud.
Engage Anivia with R when she uses R. It'll be on cooldown and it won't be beneath you when you're fighting her. Anivia's actually considerably easier compared to, say, annie.
imoimoimo MPen reds and *insert random defensive seals here* is the way to go. I also swapped a couple Flat AP blues for AP/lvl, such that her passive gets triggered at level 2 (which is when I look to start harass).
But I run 21/9/0 and Doran's blade start. Bursting them down quicker is probably goign to mitigate the damage more than 9/21/0 imo.
as of tomorrow, doran's blade will be suicide on akali as you won't be able to afford a pot with it doran's shield is her only opening, i wanted to build towards that
Twin Disciplines no longer deals bonus damage to towers
This is a notable reduction to her tower pushing potential for any build lacking Lich Bane. Tower pushing is one of the more common arguments in favor of Rageblade, but with this change I can't imagine it significantly outperforming even Sheen.
On February 01 2011 07:41 gtrsrs wrote: i just spent 10k IP on an akali runepage i better fucking crush with her now or i'm gonna be PISSED
Out of curiousity what was the page that you bought?
3 AP quints 9 flat AP blues 4 flat AD yellows 5 flat armor yellows (i already had these) 9 flat AD reds
gives me 24 AP, 10 AD, and a bit of armor lets me open d-shield and 9/21/0 for more lane control
so far i feel like my tank runepage was better and i am having BUYERS REMORSE
With 3/3 Archmage's Savvy and 3/3 Ardor you only need 2 AP Quints + 9 AP Blues to activate Discipline of Force. If you don't want to spec Ardor then what you have is fine, but otherwise you could drop the AD Seals for Armor and use an AD Quint instead.
flat ad quints magic pen reds dodge yellows flat ap blues
doran sword->mercs->rylais->sheen->lichbane->deathcap->voidstaff mejais somewhere between boot and lichbane when ur feeling cocky
R>Q>E>W 1 in W by level 2 never use E unless ur gonna kill them with the burst(so he should be leveling W but his an idiot and levels E but this is his build so im gonna tell u what he builds but i strongly recommend that u max W over E)
Teachings of Westnoob "farm on me is worth more than farm on any1 else" so basically trade kills all the time which is true since his playing akali,but be careful when ur on a spree
On February 01 2011 20:24 locodoco wrote: R>Q>E>W 1 in W by level 2 never use E unless ur gonna kill them with the burst(so he should be leveling W but his an idiot and levels E but this is his build so im gonna tell u what he builds but i strongly recommend that u max W over E)
You don't really need that armor and magic resistance early on as it is the stealth that protects you. There's not a lot of people that cba to buy oracle just to counter Akali at the four minute mark, E on the other hand provides a great ability to clear minion waves, which she kind of needs as Q-Auto Hit isn't really that fast.
On February 01 2011 20:24 locodoco wrote: R>Q>E>W 1 in W by level 2 never use E unless ur gonna kill them with the burst(so he should be leveling W but his an idiot and levels E but this is his build so im gonna tell u what he builds but i strongly recommend that u max W over E)
You don't really need that armor and magic resistance early on as it is the stealth that protects you. There's not a lot of people that cba to buy oracle just to counter Akali at the four minute mark, E on the other hand provides a great ability to clear minion waves, which she kind of needs as Q-Auto Hit isn't really that fast.
That's my two cents.
since we're talking about early game clearing waves matters even fucking less, and the armor and magic resist is fucking invaluable early game due to people having retarded amounts of penetration at the beginning from runes,didn't understand anything about the 4 min mark and oracle so wont even argue on that
What he's suggesting is that the Armour and the MR increase from leveling up W aren't really an issue early on, he posits that this is because the stealth provided by the shroud is the main source of damage mitigation (because noone has oracles).
Dunno if I agree or disagree. On another note, buying a vision ward just to drop when akali uses her shroud is a great way to fuck with her. Like it can really fuck up her plans.
Soo what's the best first buy now. I was thinking longsword+pot, with defensive masteries. If you have the runes dshield might be better, no pot sucks hard though. Patch has made me play junglers cause on them I know what to buy as first items. :D
You don't need both passives at level 1 for laning, only Discipline of Might is necessary. What setup you use depends on what masteries you prefer. If you don't want to put more than 9 in Offense you're going to need either 9 AD Marks + 1 AD Quint or 3 AD Quints + 4 AD Marks. If you like Offense you can go 3 AD Quints + 1 AD Mark/Seal or 8-9 AD Marks.
On February 03 2011 10:44 locodoco wrote: talked to westnoob he almost never starts dorans anymore he's expermenting with runes he says he's liking boots pot x 3 and cloth pot x 5 start atm
Does he build the Cloth Armor into anything? And if not, why Cloth+5pot over Bead+6pot?
I heard: Westrice's Akali runes are labeled "You" on his runepages.
AD Reds Dodge Yellow AP/Level Blues 2 AP Quints 1 AD Quint
This puts him at a little over 10AP and a little over 10AD at level 1. He also takes 9/21/0 as masteries. You'll hit the AP passive at lvl 6 with 3/3 Archmage's Savvy Openings are Boots + Pots & Cloth + Pots. Cloth seems silly to me unless you plan on trading harass with an AD char.
I've been running: AD Reds Flat Armor Yellow Flat Armor Blue 1AD Quint, 2 HP Quints. Also running 9/21/0. Starting /w Amplifying Tome to get passive and rush into sheen when I have gold.
On February 05 2011 10:26 Aukai wrote: If you use halloween AP Quints you will be 1 AP under passive at lvl 1 with ardor and archmages savvy, until level 3, which i think is fine.
EDIT: Try starting red elixir + 6 hp pots
Is red elixer + 6 hp pot a viable opening build for Akali? I haven't played Akali since the doran's changes, but I'm about to hit level 30 and I'm trying to get a rune build together for her.
Right now I have
9x magic pen marks 9x flat armor seals (is HP/level better? can't afford dodge) 9x AP/level glyphs 1x Flat AP Quint 1x AP/level Quint 1x Flat AD Quint
With 9/21/0 masteries I hit 20 AP at level 6. The big question is should I replace magic pen marks with flat AD marks to activate the lifesteal passive at level 1, giving myself more options for opening builds (cloth + 5 pot, rejuv bead + 6 pot, w/e)? Does the loss of 8 mpen really effect your damage that much?
I've started doing rejuv bead + 6 hp pots now, I'm wanting to move up to boots and 3 hp pot, i don't really think i can pull off that amp tome 1 hp pot west rice does, he gets really aggressive at lvl 1 with it.
EDIT: I never actually used the red elixir from the start (I guess that could be bad) I just had it on hand because i play like a pussy until I hit 6.
What are some good / bad matchups for Akali in your guys opinions?
For example, whenever I come across an Ashe, TF, Ezreal, and some other heroes, I will completely destroy them. Once I hit level 6, I can be very aggressive and sometimes score a kill if they underestimate the burst. I can't tell if it's just the matchup or the skill level of the opponent.
On the flipside, the heroes i've encountered that scare me are Cho'Gath, Anivia, Malphite etc... I'm only asking because it's good information to know when picking. Or should I just play a bunch and find out myself?
On February 18 2011 11:55 Phil4994 wrote: What are some good / bad matchups for Akali in your guys opinions?
For example, whenever I come across an Ashe, TF, Ezreal, and some other heroes, I will completely destroy them. Once I hit level 6, I can be very aggressive and sometimes score a kill if they underestimate the burst. I can't tell if it's just the matchup or the skill level of the opponent.
On the flipside, the heroes i've encountered that scare me are Cho'Gath, Anivia, Malphite etc... I'm only asking because it's good information to know when picking. Or should I just play a bunch and find out myself?
Most of her 'bad' match-ups become in your favor post-six. A few that start bad and only get worse are Anivia, Vlad and Kassadin.
However, she's a direct counter to nearly everyone else.
On February 18 2011 11:55 Phil4994 wrote: What are some good / bad matchups for Akali in your guys opinions?
For example, whenever I come across an Ashe, TF, Ezreal, and some other heroes, I will completely destroy them. Once I hit level 6, I can be very aggressive and sometimes score a kill if they underestimate the burst. I can't tell if it's just the matchup or the skill level of the opponent.
On the flipside, the heroes i've encountered that scare me are Cho'Gath, Anivia, Malphite etc... I'm only asking because it's good information to know when picking. Or should I just play a bunch and find out myself?
I've never laned Akali Vs Cho so I have no idea on that one, his AoE seems like it would be a pain in the ass to deal with, you'd probably have to play mindgames with your shroud alot. Aniv can be dangerous if you let her get her shit off first and her danger kicks in earlier than yours (She's dangerous at lvl 2, Akali doesn't get too dangerous until 3/4), you both have the potential to burst each other from full to 0 (post 6), but you should be able to do it quicker than she can. After 6 vs an Anivia I play crazy aggressive just because I want to burst her down before she can burst me. As for malphite burst works pretty damn well against him (you can burst through his shield), oh and if you see his ult coming and for some reason you can't flash it or R out of the way then drop your shroud so he can't target you with his Q.
I found one of the ways that I improved Akali vs X across the board was by not just playing passive and waiting until 6. Getting off that W->Q->pop Q harass while taking minimal damage in return is such a big help for when you do pop 6. If you can get enough harass on them you can often kill your opponent with Q (aim to throw 2/3 seconds before you'll hit level 6) -> R when you hit 6 -> pop Q -> new Q -> pop Q (500 magic damage + ~140 attack damage in the space of a couple seconds). If you pay attention to your XP bar it's actually pretty easy to do, lots of people will fall for the Q -> pretend to back off while you wait for a couple seconds of Q cooldown -> R -> rape face.
Akali vs Cho is all about your usage of ignite to keep him from abusing his passive, you can get some mark harass on him at lvl 3 or so then use the threat of mark to keep him from coming in, and lastly ignite him when he is in a position to get a lot of last hits. Force him to use all his pots before 6 this way so you can push him around when you are both 6. Make sure you get wards for the river since you are playing so aggressively.
So the upcoming patch says her passives will take rounding into account (9.5 AD and 19.5 AP). I've been working on a jungle Akali build, my first was 9/21/0 with 8 AD reds 1 AD quint (9.85 damage), opening amp tome and relying on the def masteries for jungling power.
Also, the patch is making doran's blade 10 damage, I could try opening that with AP quints + AP blues, freeing up red for mpen and allowing pretty much any masteries.
Don't jungle with Doran's Blade. 10 AD, 100 Health and 3% Life Steal aren't remotely as good as 18 Armor and 1000 Health. Amplifying Tome is just as bad. Cloth Armor + 5 Pot is simply better than either option in almost every conceivable way.
Compare the following videos to your own jungling for reference. The difference in security should be obvious, and I highly doubt your build is capable of the alternative routes excepting perhaps the Wraith jack.
Don't jungle with Doran's Blade. 10 AD, 100 Health and 3% Life Steal aren't remotely as good as 18 Armor and 1000 Health. Amplifying Tome is just as bad. Cloth Armor + 5 Pot is simply better than either option in almost every conceivable way.
Compare the following videos to your own jungling for reference. The difference in security should be obvious, and I highly doubt your build is capable of the alternative routes excepting perhaps the Wraith jack.
Well, I just bought akali and some AD reds, have only jungled like 2 games so far, so thanks for the vids. Also Westrice's guide is pretty good, I wish he'd do a jungle guide (in my opinion, have a weak jungler played by an expert who mains them is better than a strong jungler played by someone with less experience).
Jungle Akali has been and likely always will be a pariah. It's fairly simple why. Her jungling was objectively bad at launch, and remains terrible unless you are very specific in your runes/masteries. That's she's very good with the right setup is irrelevant because your average player is unwilling to build and use a specific rune page just for her and your top end player is only interested in the best of the best and not close seconds or thirds.
Just watch Stonewall's Akali Challenge to see how bad she used to be, and realize that a lot of the people who try her now attempt to use Long Sword + 1 Pot so they can take MPen marks and spec 9/0/21. If it was Warick or Nunu they'd ask on the forums what they're doing wrong, but since it's Akali they write her off and never think on it again.
What is wrong with a jungle akali? 1) She is absurdally strong in solo lane 2) She is an anti-carry so she can't be 2-3 lvls behind enemy carry 3) There are champions that NEED the jungle
Pretty much what Kaniol said. Just because she can jungle doesn't mean she should jungle. It's not too easy to think of a good teamcomp where there are two champions more deserving of a the solo lane than Akali, and where it is acceptable to have Akali in jungle.
The strongest argument against jungle Akali is simply this: There are better or more valuable junglers. It wouldn't matter that she's strong in a solo lane if she was also the strongest jungler. Similarly, a champion needing the jungle to work is irrelevant unless they're either extremely good at it or provide a critical benefit to the team that's more valuable.
I maintain that she's a much better jungler than most realize, but at the moment the only reason to jungle as her is for fun and/or because you're sick of fighting for solo lanes (incidentally my original motivation).
I feel like in the current metagame ganks don't ever happen earlygame unless the jungler initiates it. Akali ganks are pretty strong at 6 and later, though not so much earlier unless you take flash. If your team is running a laning or roaming tank (alistar, malph, shen, cho), akali can provide an AP jungler with ganking power, while being more useful in teamfights than shaco. A good comparison would probably be fiddlesticks (AP ganker, disruptable jungler, snowbally).
There are probably very few teams that have such a niche to fill (like idk, ashe mid and kayle/teemo top or something, both need farm and your team still wants some AP).
The most compelling reason to have a jungle akali build is: if you're gonna make an akali runepage, learning another role can only increase the number of chances you'll have to play akali
On March 17 2011 03:57 Flakes wrote: I feel like in the current metagame ganks don't ever happen earlygame unless the jungler initiates it. Akali ganks are pretty strong at 6 and later, though not so much earlier unless you take flash. If your team is running a laning or roaming tank (alistar, malph, shen, cho), akali can provide an AP jungler with ganking power, while being more useful in teamfights than shaco. A good comparison would probably be fiddlesticks (AP ganker, disruptable jungler, snowbally).
There are probably very few teams that have such a niche to fill (like idk, ashe mid and kayle/teemo top or something, both need farm and your team still wants some AP).
The most compelling reason to have a jungle akali build is: if you're gonna make an akali runepage, learning another role can only increase the number of chances you'll have to play akali
Bolded part is absolutely wrong in allmost every way now that a roamer is popular. Shaco is useful indirectly in teamfights because he can push towers down and draw it to a 4v5 or just kill the guy going to disrupt him and continue pushing.
And a sad part is that if the jungler is counterjungle able, ww, nunu, udyr and shaco (4 most popular junglers) are faster if they dont counterjungle, and still better if they DO counterjungle. Besides akali is storng against a carry in a solo lane while being countered against tanky solos (cho etc.).
Look, what you're trying to say is just because ww/udyr can lane doesnt mean it's good, it has bad values which gimps you and it doesnt use the champion to its potential.
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good
it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ.
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good
it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ.
What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her.
Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment.
I dont usually run Gunblade at all, or ever on her. I usually go Sheen -> Giant's Belt -> Rylai's with T1 boots in there somewhere, and maybe T2 boots before Rylai's if I have to go back early. I mostly go with the philosophy that the spell vamp from having 10 AD is enough, and once I get Sheen and I do a Q -> R -> autoattack, the enemy usually learns to stay away from me, allowing me to farm and preventing them from farming. Lichbane usually comes after Rylai's, and if the game isn't done by then, I'll build some defensive items like GA or BV.
She can get shut down hard by a few things in the laning phase, making it a pain to farm. If she gets zoned off experience or if the enemy champion buys a pink ward for the lane are two of the biggest things. If she gets behind in her lane, its quite an uphill battle (when isnt it though). Theres pretty much no way she can get ganked with Shroud up (especially if she has flash).
She doesn't have near the escapability of LeBlanc or Kassadin, but she definetly has the burst and passive to make up for it. She is probably one of the best, if not the best, snowball champions in the game.
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good
it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ.
What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her.
Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment.
I dont usually run Gunblade at all, or ever on her. I usually go Sheen -> Giant's Belt -> Rylai's with T1 boots in there somewhere, and maybe T2 boots before Rylai's if I have to go back early. I mostly go with the philosophy that the spell vamp from having 10 AD is enough, and once I get Sheen and I do a Q -> R -> autoattack, the enemy usually learns to stay away from me, allowing me to farm and preventing them from farming. Lichbane usually comes after Rylai's, and if the game isn't done by then, I'll build some defensive items like GA or BV.
She can get shut down hard by a few things in the laning phase, making it a pain to farm. If she gets zoned off experience or if the enemy champion buys a pink ward for the lane are two of the biggest things. If she gets behind in her lane, its quite an uphill battle (when isnt it though). Theres pretty much no way she can get ganked with Shroud up (especially if she has flash).
She doesn't have near the escapability of LeBlanc or Kassadin, but she definetly has the burst and passive to make up for it. She is probably one of the best, if not the best, snowball champions in the game.
Dat sheen rush, mana such an important stat. It was already mentioned in this topic that akali has problems nowadays because of tanky dps meta. She isn't too awesome vs tanky deeps champ, it's hard to argue with this fact
On March 17 2011 03:57 Flakes wrote: I feel like in the current metagame ganks don't ever happen earlygame unless the jungler initiates it. Akali ganks are pretty strong at 6 and later, though not so much earlier unless you take flash. If your team is running a laning or roaming tank (alistar, malph, shen, cho), akali can provide an AP jungler with ganking power, while being more useful in teamfights than shaco. A good comparison would probably be fiddlesticks (AP ganker, disruptable jungler, snowbally).
There are probably very few teams that have such a niche to fill (like idk, ashe mid and kayle/teemo top or something, both need farm and your team still wants some AP).
The most compelling reason to have a jungle akali build is: if you're gonna make an akali runepage, learning another role can only increase the number of chances you'll have to play akali
Bolded part is absolutely wrong in allmost every way now that a roamer is popular. Shaco is useful indirectly in teamfights because he can push towers down and draw it to a 4v5 or just kill the guy going to disrupt him and continue pushing.
And a sad part is that if the jungler is counterjungle able, ww, nunu, udyr and shaco (4 most popular junglers) are faster if they dont counterjungle, and still better if they DO counterjungle. Besides akali is storng against a carry in a solo lane while being countered against tanky solos (cho etc.).
Look, what you're trying to say is just because ww/udyr can lane doesnt mean it's good, it has bad values which gimps you and it doesnt use the champion to its potential.
I'm not sure what leads you to say that Warwick, Nunu, Udyr, et al are faster than Akali in the jungle. She can clear her side starting at Blue or golems in 3:45, 4:00-4:05 if you recall before red for boots and extra pots. She's not a slow or insecure jungler if built and played properly.
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good
it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ.
What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her.
Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment.
i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5.
renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg
nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q
urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E
engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot
ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day
teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane
caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity.
corki hits you with phos in your shroud
jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive
basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good
it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ.
What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her.
Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment.
i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5.
renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg
nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q
urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E
engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot
ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day
teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane
caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity.
corki hits you with phos in your shroud
jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive
basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali
Half of your points could apply to any champion, and half of those abilities you mentioned are skillshots, which you can avoid. For example, Urgot's early game is really good versus any champion, and requires him to hit you with that goo before it locks on. I don't know how you can single out Akali when you could put any champion in the lane, and they could have trouble.
Just because Akali starts picking up a lot at 5, doesn't mean she's horrible before that. You mention champions like Nasus and Renekton and their self-healing. Those are strong laners in general because they self-heal and any champion's harass would be pointless, but any good Akali would knows this and you're better off using Q to get last hits.
And if you're going in for a kill or engagement, you should only engage when they are marked with your Q, and it's coming off cooldown, maximizing burst and doing a massive amount of damage to the enemy champion before they can finish their combo. Self-healing abilities? I take Ignite, as well as Flash, so I can disengage easily.
Ryze is honestly a joke early game. If you're in a solo lane versus him, your Q trades equally with his, if not more in your favor, and his root is countered by Shroud. Never lost to a Ryze in a solo lane.
Teemo can't throw down 10 Shrooms once he hits 6, and even when he hits 6, his mana regen isn't that great. He can't lay mushrooms and spam his Q on you and if you want a last hit on a creep without taking poison damage, use your Q. If he tries to zone, shroud and zone him back. It only takes about 2 rounds of Q -> R -> auto-attack to kill him around level 6 or 7 anyways, so do the damage, and back off, then repeat. There's no use chasing him.
Caitlyn's Trap's graphic is huge. I don't know how you would run into it under your shroud, aside from stupid pathing issues that make you walk into it. Her Q is a skillshot, and has a fairly long wind-up animation, so unless you're a bad player in general, you shouldn't be getting hit that often by it.
Corki's phospherous bomb can hit under shroud, sure. But if he did hit me with it, I most likely got a Q and auto-attack off. He would either do Valkyrie or Gatling Gun after that probably. If he follows with Gatling Gun, I'll just Q and auto-attack again because it would be up most likely, making this an even trade, or maybe in my favor.
Jarvan is a tough lane for anyone. Like you said, his passive is really good, and it would hit any champion really hard. Luckily, Akali is one of the few champions that Jarvan can't really dive on a turret because of her burst and her shroud.
A majority of your examples assume: 1) you're getting hit by the enemy skillshots a lot (you shouldn't be, and if you can, you should bait skillshots with your shroud to waste enemy mana/cooldowns) 2) you don't trade damage with the enemy champion (you should always trade damage with the enemy, unless they just self-heal up, then you shouldn't have been overextended in the first place) 3) you have to be in melee range to get last hits (Last hits > champion harass, so use Q to snag any last hits you can) 4) your shroud is less useful that it really is (If you have a skirmish with the enemy near minions, the minions will most likely turn to attack both you and the enemy champion. Shroud resets their aggro, while your minions keep hitting the enemy. This damage can add up quite a bit. On another note, her shroud can protect her from damage while she is CC'd if you cast it before the CC lands)
It seems like any of your examples could be applied to any melee champion in a solo lane. Singed or Kassadin could just as easily be zoned early game by any of the ranged champions you mentioned. Kassadin only has his Q for harass, and he's even limited by mana.
The current meta is getting better for Akali. Remember the AOE ult metagame? Akali was basically dead once she jumped in there. Then there is the tanky DPS metagame that was, again, bad for Akali, since she is not optimal versus beefy champions, but its been shifting slightly away from that because of the increased ratios and lower base damage on tanky DPS.
Hmm, really, Akali is pretty good as a solo especially in solo queue where the enemy solo usually won't cry for assistance until it's way too late because once you realize akali is dominating you, she probably already killed you.
You're going to suffer before level 6 for sure, but once you are level 6 the tables turn so hard that you can beat the shit out of someone like urgot even if you somehow went 0-2 against him before level 6.
Good shroud usage is the key. That thing can zone pretty hard but you really have to play smart. If they're just standing around waiting for you to Q them you can't Q them, because they'll just retaliate with a stronger nuke. It's more like, you should shroud to make it uncomfortable for them to last-hit creeps. If they last-hit too close to shroud you Q + maybe attack them. If they stand far back enough you get a couple of free cs.
Against most competent players Akali won't get anywhere near perfect cs pre-6, but she's so damn OP after 6.
Q -> stall -> R -> Q proc -> Q -> Q proc is like the most powerful spammable burst in the game. Unless you're someone like annie who can burst harder while stunning at the same time she's going to totally molest you.
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good
it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ.
What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her.
Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment.
i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5.
renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg
nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q
urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E
engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot
ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day
teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane
caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity.
corki hits you with phos in your shroud
jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive
basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali
Half of your points could apply to any champion, and half of those abilities you mentioned are skillshots, which you can avoid. For example, Urgot's early game is really good versus any champion, and requires him to hit you with that goo before it locks on. I don't know how you can single out Akali when you could put any champion in the lane, and they could have trouble.
Just because Akali starts picking up a lot at 5, doesn't mean she's horrible before that. You mention champions like Nasus and Renekton and their self-healing. Those are strong laners in general because they self-heal and any champion's harass would be pointless, but any good Akali would knows this and you're better off using Q to get last hits.
And if you're going in for a kill or engagement, you should only engage when they are marked with your Q, and it's coming off cooldown, maximizing burst and doing a massive amount of damage to the enemy champion before they can finish their combo. Self-healing abilities? I take Ignite, as well as Flash, so I can disengage easily.
Ryze is honestly a joke early game. If you're in a solo lane versus him, your Q trades equally with his, if not more in your favor, and his root is countered by Shroud. Never lost to a Ryze in a solo lane.
Teemo can't throw down 10 Shrooms once he hits 6, and even when he hits 6, his mana regen isn't that great. He can't lay mushrooms and spam his Q on you and if you want a last hit on a creep without taking poison damage, use your Q. If he tries to zone, shroud and zone him back. It only takes about 2 rounds of Q -> R -> auto-attack to kill him around level 6 or 7 anyways, so do the damage, and back off, then repeat. There's no use chasing him.
Caitlyn's Trap's graphic is huge. I don't know how you would run into it under your shroud, aside from stupid pathing issues that make you walk into it. Her Q is a skillshot, and has a fairly long wind-up animation, so unless you're a bad player in general, you shouldn't be getting hit that often by it.
Corki's phospherous bomb can hit under shroud, sure. But if he did hit me with it, I most likely got a Q and auto-attack off. He would either do Valkyrie or Gatling Gun after that probably. If he follows with Gatling Gun, I'll just Q and auto-attack again because it would be up most likely, making this an even trade, or maybe in my favor.
Jarvan is a tough lane for anyone. Like you said, his passive is really good, and it would hit any champion really hard. Luckily, Akali is one of the few champions that Jarvan can't really dive on a turret because of her burst and her shroud.
A majority of your examples assume: 1) you're getting hit by the enemy skillshots a lot (you shouldn't be, and if you can, you should bait skillshots with your shroud to waste enemy mana/cooldowns) 2) you don't trade damage with the enemy champion (you should always trade damage with the enemy, unless they just self-heal up, then you shouldn't have been overextended in the first place) 3) you have to be in melee range to get last hits (Last hits > champion harass, so use Q to snag any last hits you can) 4) your shroud is less useful that it really is (If you have a skirmish with the enemy near minions, the minions will most likely turn to attack both you and the enemy champion. Shroud resets their aggro, while your minions keep hitting the enemy. This damage can add up quite a bit. On another note, her shroud can protect her from damage while she is CC'd if you cast it before the CC lands)
It seems like any of your examples could be applied to any melee champion in a solo lane. Singed or Kassadin could just as easily be zoned early game by any of the ranged champions you mentioned. Kassadin only has his Q for harass, and he's even limited by mana.
The current meta is getting better for Akali. Remember the AOE ult metagame? Akali was basically dead once she jumped in there. Then there is the tanky DPS metagame that was, again, bad for Akali, since she is not optimal versus beefy champions, but its been shifting slightly away from that because of the increased ratios and lower base damage on tanky DPS.
I don't see how the argument "Urgot is strong against everyone" detracts from gtrsrs' point. If the champions he's listing are more universally powerful than a champion like Akali it only makes them better, not worse.
I also don't see how the "you're better off using Q to last hit" argument is useful. You don't want a champion who's going to let Nasus or Renekton farm to their hearts' content, and even if you did you'd certainly want someone different. It's nice that she can deal with adverse conditions more competently than other melee, but that doesn't translate into Nasus and Renekton being irrelevant.
The champion by champion arguments in general seem pretty fruitless; it's fairly easy for both sides to come up with favorable scenarios for their points. However, I know for a fact that a bad Caitlyn laning against Akali for the first time, and a skilled one at that, can win the lane.
The proof is this game, where I miraculously managed to go 2-0 on pre-buff Caitlyn against Westrice of all people despite missing nearly all my Qs, placing numerous useless traps, and having an unnatural attraction toward Westrice's shroud. He made mistakes as well, but I think it still speaks volumes that a bad pre-buff Caitlyn who had never faced Akali while playing a ranged carry prior to this match managed to do that.
I'm not making the argument that Akali is a bad champion, because I don't believe she is. But I think gtrsrs made an extremely potent argument about why the tanky DPS meta isn't Akali's only problem, and I don't feel what you've provided is an adequate rebuttal.
On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote: is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good
it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ.
What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her.
Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment.
i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5.
renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg
nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q
urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E
engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot
ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day
teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane
caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity.
corki hits you with phos in your shroud
jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive
basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali
Half of your points could apply to any champion, and half of those abilities you mentioned are skillshots, which you can avoid. For example, Urgot's early game is really good versus any champion, and requires him to hit you with that goo before it locks on. I don't know how you can single out Akali when you could put any champion in the lane, and they could have trouble.
Just because Akali starts picking up a lot at 5, doesn't mean she's horrible before that. You mention champions like Nasus and Renekton and their self-healing. Those are strong laners in general because they self-heal and any champion's harass would be pointless, but any good Akali would knows this and you're better off using Q to get last hits.
And if you're going in for a kill or engagement, you should only engage when they are marked with your Q, and it's coming off cooldown, maximizing burst and doing a massive amount of damage to the enemy champion before they can finish their combo. Self-healing abilities? I take Ignite, as well as Flash, so I can disengage easily.
Ryze is honestly a joke early game. If you're in a solo lane versus him, your Q trades equally with his, if not more in your favor, and his root is countered by Shroud. Never lost to a Ryze in a solo lane.
Teemo can't throw down 10 Shrooms once he hits 6, and even when he hits 6, his mana regen isn't that great. He can't lay mushrooms and spam his Q on you and if you want a last hit on a creep without taking poison damage, use your Q. If he tries to zone, shroud and zone him back. It only takes about 2 rounds of Q -> R -> auto-attack to kill him around level 6 or 7 anyways, so do the damage, and back off, then repeat. There's no use chasing him.
Caitlyn's Trap's graphic is huge. I don't know how you would run into it under your shroud, aside from stupid pathing issues that make you walk into it. Her Q is a skillshot, and has a fairly long wind-up animation, so unless you're a bad player in general, you shouldn't be getting hit that often by it.
Corki's phospherous bomb can hit under shroud, sure. But if he did hit me with it, I most likely got a Q and auto-attack off. He would either do Valkyrie or Gatling Gun after that probably. If he follows with Gatling Gun, I'll just Q and auto-attack again because it would be up most likely, making this an even trade, or maybe in my favor.
Jarvan is a tough lane for anyone. Like you said, his passive is really good, and it would hit any champion really hard. Luckily, Akali is one of the few champions that Jarvan can't really dive on a turret because of her burst and her shroud.
A majority of your examples assume: 1) you're getting hit by the enemy skillshots a lot (you shouldn't be, and if you can, you should bait skillshots with your shroud to waste enemy mana/cooldowns) 2) you don't trade damage with the enemy champion (you should always trade damage with the enemy, unless they just self-heal up, then you shouldn't have been overextended in the first place) 3) you have to be in melee range to get last hits (Last hits > champion harass, so use Q to snag any last hits you can) 4) your shroud is less useful that it really is (If you have a skirmish with the enemy near minions, the minions will most likely turn to attack both you and the enemy champion. Shroud resets their aggro, while your minions keep hitting the enemy. This damage can add up quite a bit. On another note, her shroud can protect her from damage while she is CC'd if you cast it before the CC lands)
It seems like any of your examples could be applied to any melee champion in a solo lane. Singed or Kassadin could just as easily be zoned early game by any of the ranged champions you mentioned. Kassadin only has his Q for harass, and he's even limited by mana.
The current meta is getting better for Akali. Remember the AOE ult metagame? Akali was basically dead once she jumped in there. Then there is the tanky DPS metagame that was, again, bad for Akali, since she is not optimal versus beefy champions, but its been shifting slightly away from that because of the increased ratios and lower base damage on tanky DPS.
I don't see how the argument "Urgot is strong against everyone" detracts from gtrsrs' point. If the champions he's listing are more universally powerful than a champion like Akali it only makes them better, not worse.
I also don't see how the "you're better off using Q to last hit" argument is useful. You don't want a champion who's going to let Nasus or Renekton farm to their hearts' content, and even if you did you'd certainly want someone different. It's nice that she can deal with adverse conditions more competently than other melee, but that doesn't translate into Nasus and Renekton being irrelevant.
The champion by champion arguments in general seem pretty fruitless; it's fairly easy for both sides to come up with favorable scenarios for their points. However, I know for a fact that a bad Caitlyn laning against Akali for the first time, and a skilled one at that, can win the lane.
The proof is this game, where I miraculously managed to go 2-0 on pre-buff Caitlyn against Westrice of all people despite missing nearly all my Qs, placing numerous useless traps, and having an unnatural attraction toward Westrice's shroud. He made mistakes as well, but I think it still speaks volumes that a bad pre-buff Caitlyn who had never faced Akali while playing a ranged carry prior to this match managed to do that.
I'm not making the argument that Akali is a bad champion, because I don't believe she is. But I think gtrsrs made an extremely potent argument about why the tanky DPS meta isn't Akali's only problem, and I don't feel what you've provided is an adequate rebuttal.
Yeah, and after you had 2 kills on him he still managed to kill you =.= If he played more passive before level 6 you won't even have that 2 kills to begin with~ Plus he fucked up ROYALLY when he fed you the first time, lol.
I am pretty bad at Akali but I practiced solo numerous times vs decent TL solo players and the result is always the same: you lose out on about ~10 to 15cs pre-6 if you play passive and mass potions, and then it's complete reversal, except potions are a lot less useful past very early game so the enemy champ can't just stall out vs Akali the same way.
On his first kill I engaged him when I had no mana, I walked back into his shroud twice, let him proc every single Q and didn't even use a potion during all of that when I had several available. I arguably didn't do anything right that kill and lost by an auto attack.
My point isn't that I'm an uber Caitlyn player, quite the opposite. I'm a terrible Caitlyn player. My point is that a terrible Caitlyn player spent the entire early laning phase screwing up while playing against one of the most well known Akali players in the game, and despite having no experience against Akali on any ranged AD champion was capable, even partially by dumb luck, to win out or come darn near close even in circumstances extremely favorable to Akali.
If Akali is a solo on par with the likes of Urgot, Teemo and Caitlyn that shouldn't be possible. But it happened, and the fact that I did horribly the rest of the game and had a bitter defeat only supports the argument that a Westrice-level Akali should not be capable of going 0-2 against a nub Caitlyn if those two champions are equal in lane strength.
I think that akali built tanky is such a beast. You don't need to stack full ap to make her a sin that kills shit. Just something like Gunblade, slow scepter, sunfires is good I think. And then more tanky, and lich bane at the end.
On April 30 2011 03:23 0123456789 wrote: I think that akali built tanky is such a beast. You don't need to stack full ap to make her a sin that kills shit. Just something like Gunblade, slow scepter, sunfires is good I think. And then more tanky, and lich bane at the end.
Akali is good but she's situational, vs. a tank heavy team she's so fucked, so I decided to pick up on corki. Amazing champ all around.
- Can harass really well
- 1v1 with bomb vs. melee it's impossible for them to win
- clear waves FAST, high creep kill counts
- Has an escape
- True Damage to melt tank meta game
- However, he is extremely squishy
decided to pick up on corki
went 5-0 in solo queue 1300+
all mid solo
really have to have mid solo as corki
Corki can't gank that well unfortunately, there's really NO CC about corki and diving in with jump move it's always a NO-NO. So really have to rely on farming mid early game and hope for the best that ur team do decent top and bottom then once mid game comes corki can really fire up.
I realized the most important thing, everyone is adopted to a certain play style, or rather, a play style that they used the most. It's really important to have a play style that suits you.
Anyway, so I'm pretty noob at akali cause I have trouble at top vs heimer =/ basically I feel like I can't do much without wasting all my pots >< I'm probably just not using my shroud well enough but those turrets are just so damn annoying. Basically what'll happen is I'll trade a Q with turret aggro and maybe a rocket. Also his grenade also hurts because of it's AoE even inside the shroud.
My last game I killed heimer for FB but I wasted all 4 pots, I felt that was pretty bad, or basically whenever I waste 4 pots on trying to kill someone I feel like a baddie lol. Any tips of how to use shroud better? I've basically just thrown it down on their minions or behind depending on where they are and just try and get a Q off then run back in and cs or if they're stupid to come back try to auto-attack and Q again etc...
What do you do when the enemy tank buys an Oracle's to negate your Smoke Bomb invis in teamfights? I ask this from the perspective of a tank who often does this when playing vs. Akali, and usually it just shuts her down completely.
On April 30 2011 23:00 Zato-1 wrote: So, a question for you Akali players out there:
What do you do when the enemy tank buys an Oracle's to negate your Smoke Bomb invis in teamfights? I ask this from the perspective of a tank who often does this when playing vs. Akali, and usually it just shuts her down completely.
well in teamfights im not really trying to stay too long on the front lines. if its a dragon engagement or an engagement at baron, im usually kiting around sides trying to get a direct line to dash (her ult) to the squishies. R - Q - autoattack - E should be more than enough to bring the carry down.
On April 30 2011 23:00 Zato-1 wrote: So, a question for you Akali players out there:
What do you do when the enemy tank buys an Oracle's to negate your Smoke Bomb invis in teamfights? I ask this from the perspective of a tank who often does this when playing vs. Akali, and usually it just shuts her down completely.
well in teamfights im not really trying to stay too long on the front lines. if its a dragon engagement or an engagement at baron, im usually kiting around sides trying to get a direct line to dash (her ult) to the squishies. R - Q - autoattack - E should be more than enough to bring the carry down.
Never use E in teamfights. Gigantic waste of energy. (Unless you're building Akali with AD, in which case...herpaderp)
If they have Oracle's the two most important things for you to do are 1) Don't get caught out of position and 2) Engage carefully. You have to rely on your team a lot in these circumstances, which can be very frustrating, but the alternative is to explode.
Also note that Shroud isn't useless even if they have Oracle's. It's 50/50 Armor/MR at maximum level which is a lot of survivability. It's not as good as being untargettable, but it's still something.
Only just getting back into LoL after a 5 month'ish break, will be re-learning Jungle akali after all the Patch changes and will update OP when I find what i'm looking for.
I am pretty convinced that Dorans shield is the way to go on Akali. Pretty much shrugs off low lvl auto attack and spell harass. Boots, dorans sword, amp tome are all pretty bad. Akali is good again because people are straying away from tankier teams and going with more soft teams which means free picking for akali, and in theory she rapes a lot of solo tops, and except for top elo which has seen westrice's akali, people don't how to play against her because she is underused.
So for every 100 damage Boots Akali takes, Doran's Akali takes only 92 damage. Now assume Boots Akali takes 600 damage (enough to consume all her potions). Doran's Akali would take 552 damage instead. 1 minute later Boots Akali is at full health thanks to potions, whereas Doran's Akali has only healed 96 health and is 336 health behind. It will take 3.5 minutes for Doran's Akali to heal that difference purely through the passive regen, and another 1.25 minutes reach full health.
The regeneration and protection from Doran's Shield potentially beats that of Boots + 3 Potions after 5.75 minutes of laning. That number stretches further as you consider potential magic damage sources, Akali's self-healing, and natural health regen.
Dorans healing lasts the entire game, even after first primary laning phase. Boots can't take burst, Dorans gives you an extra 120 hp to take burst. 120 hp lasts beyond early game, whereas pots only last as 1 time use consumables. Boots are favored in matchups where a roamer or strong ganker is present. Dorans adds more hp per lvl up, and helps against taking other misc dmg like creeps and towers.
To be clear I'm not arguing that the benefits of Doran's Shield are non-existent or worthless. I simply think a closer look is warranted when it's asserted that X item should always be preferred.
The burst argument is situational. One scenario might kill a boots build and not a Doran's build if they both started at full health, but as shown by the math earlier there can be long stretches where the Doran's build is potentially at much lower health than the boots build.
Situational is a pretty good word for this comparison in general. There are clear situations where each item confers a significant advantage over the other, an an equal or greater number of situations where it's a wash or unclear. Which you choose is really based on the sorts of problems you can expect to encounter in a given matchup.
Is there actually a point to leveling E? I used to do the R>Q>E>W build in Westrice's guide but I never actually cast E except to spellvamp off a big creep wave or farm a little. I'm thinking I shouldn't even get any points in E until W is maxed.
That lower energy cost is a real lifesaver sometimes and 50 free armor/mr is retardedly good, especially with spell vamp. Also you may laugh but you can actually save teammates with the slow <_<
I like getting e since for some reason random hoes always survive with like 10 hp so I just press e to make them die. Having a little extra damage is nice ~
EPT
