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Hmm, really, Akali is pretty good as a solo especially in solo queue where the enemy solo usually won't cry for assistance until it's way too late because once you realize akali is dominating you, she probably already killed you.
You're going to suffer before level 6 for sure, but once you are level 6 the tables turn so hard that you can beat the shit out of someone like urgot even if you somehow went 0-2 against him before level 6.
Good shroud usage is the key. That thing can zone pretty hard but you really have to play smart. If they're just standing around waiting for you to Q them you can't Q them, because they'll just retaliate with a stronger nuke. It's more like, you should shroud to make it uncomfortable for them to last-hit creeps. If they last-hit too close to shroud you Q + maybe attack them. If they stand far back enough you get a couple of free cs.
Against most competent players Akali won't get anywhere near perfect cs pre-6, but she's so damn OP after 6.
Q -> stall -> R -> Q proc -> Q -> Q proc is like the most powerful spammable burst in the game. Unless you're someone like annie who can burst harder while stunning at the same time she's going to totally molest you.
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On April 20 2011 11:56 Javadocs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 07:58 gtrsrs wrote:On April 20 2011 06:43 Javadocs wrote:On April 20 2011 03:20 gtrsrs wrote:On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ. What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her. Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment. i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5. renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity. corki hits you with phos in your shroud jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali Half of your points could apply to any champion, and half of those abilities you mentioned are skillshots, which you can avoid. For example, Urgot's early game is really good versus any champion, and requires him to hit you with that goo before it locks on. I don't know how you can single out Akali when you could put any champion in the lane, and they could have trouble. Just because Akali starts picking up a lot at 5, doesn't mean she's horrible before that. You mention champions like Nasus and Renekton and their self-healing. Those are strong laners in general because they self-heal and any champion's harass would be pointless, but any good Akali would knows this and you're better off using Q to get last hits. And if you're going in for a kill or engagement, you should only engage when they are marked with your Q, and it's coming off cooldown, maximizing burst and doing a massive amount of damage to the enemy champion before they can finish their combo. Self-healing abilities? I take Ignite, as well as Flash, so I can disengage easily. Ryze is honestly a joke early game. If you're in a solo lane versus him, your Q trades equally with his, if not more in your favor, and his root is countered by Shroud. Never lost to a Ryze in a solo lane. Teemo can't throw down 10 Shrooms once he hits 6, and even when he hits 6, his mana regen isn't that great. He can't lay mushrooms and spam his Q on you and if you want a last hit on a creep without taking poison damage, use your Q. If he tries to zone, shroud and zone him back. It only takes about 2 rounds of Q -> R -> auto-attack to kill him around level 6 or 7 anyways, so do the damage, and back off, then repeat. There's no use chasing him. Caitlyn's Trap's graphic is huge. I don't know how you would run into it under your shroud, aside from stupid pathing issues that make you walk into it. Her Q is a skillshot, and has a fairly long wind-up animation, so unless you're a bad player in general, you shouldn't be getting hit that often by it. Corki's phospherous bomb can hit under shroud, sure. But if he did hit me with it, I most likely got a Q and auto-attack off. He would either do Valkyrie or Gatling Gun after that probably. If he follows with Gatling Gun, I'll just Q and auto-attack again because it would be up most likely, making this an even trade, or maybe in my favor. Jarvan is a tough lane for anyone. Like you said, his passive is really good, and it would hit any champion really hard. Luckily, Akali is one of the few champions that Jarvan can't really dive on a turret because of her burst and her shroud. A majority of your examples assume:1) you're getting hit by the enemy skillshots a lot (you shouldn't be, and if you can, you should bait skillshots with your shroud to waste enemy mana/cooldowns) 2) you don't trade damage with the enemy champion (you should always trade damage with the enemy, unless they just self-heal up, then you shouldn't have been overextended in the first place) 3) you have to be in melee range to get last hits (Last hits > champion harass, so use Q to snag any last hits you can) 4) your shroud is less useful that it really is (If you have a skirmish with the enemy near minions, the minions will most likely turn to attack both you and the enemy champion. Shroud resets their aggro, while your minions keep hitting the enemy. This damage can add up quite a bit. On another note, her shroud can protect her from damage while she is CC'd if you cast it before the CC lands) It seems like any of your examples could be applied to any melee champion in a solo lane. Singed or Kassadin could just as easily be zoned early game by any of the ranged champions you mentioned. Kassadin only has his Q for harass, and he's even limited by mana. The current meta is getting better for Akali. Remember the AOE ult metagame? Akali was basically dead once she jumped in there. Then there is the tanky DPS metagame that was, again, bad for Akali, since she is not optimal versus beefy champions, but its been shifting slightly away from that because of the increased ratios and lower base damage on tanky DPS.
I don't see how the argument "Urgot is strong against everyone" detracts from gtrsrs' point. If the champions he's listing are more universally powerful than a champion like Akali it only makes them better, not worse.
I also don't see how the "you're better off using Q to last hit" argument is useful. You don't want a champion who's going to let Nasus or Renekton farm to their hearts' content, and even if you did you'd certainly want someone different. It's nice that she can deal with adverse conditions more competently than other melee, but that doesn't translate into Nasus and Renekton being irrelevant.
The champion by champion arguments in general seem pretty fruitless; it's fairly easy for both sides to come up with favorable scenarios for their points. However, I know for a fact that a bad Caitlyn laning against Akali for the first time, and a skilled one at that, can win the lane.
The proof is this game, where I miraculously managed to go 2-0 on pre-buff Caitlyn against Westrice of all people despite missing nearly all my Qs, placing numerous useless traps, and having an unnatural attraction toward Westrice's shroud. He made mistakes as well, but I think it still speaks volumes that a bad pre-buff Caitlyn who had never faced Akali while playing a ranged carry prior to this match managed to do that.
I'm not making the argument that Akali is a bad champion, because I don't believe she is. But I think gtrsrs made an extremely potent argument about why the tanky DPS meta isn't Akali's only problem, and I don't feel what you've provided is an adequate rebuttal.
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On April 20 2011 15:55 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 11:56 Javadocs wrote:On April 20 2011 07:58 gtrsrs wrote:On April 20 2011 06:43 Javadocs wrote:On April 20 2011 03:20 gtrsrs wrote:On April 19 2011 14:14 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
is it just me or is akali really OP right now? a fast gunblade on her is really devastating imo. and her soloing now is pretty good it's just you she's awful against every oft-played solo. fast gunblade means that someone is allowing you to farm, which means they're a bad player, which means you could have crushed them even harder with a more viable champ. What are you talking about? Once she hits 5 or 6, she can absolutely crush her lane, depending how aggressive the enemy is. IMO, she needs a solo lane, unless your lane partner is a roamer or has good control, but still try to get a solo lane with her. Akali has some of the best burst in the game, and shes not a one-trick pony like Veigar. She's amazing in a solo lane. Her Q starts hitting really hard at rank 3, and if you get an auto-attack off as well, they are probably down to half health. Her shroud allows her to zone quite well too. Once she has 2-3 essences of shadow, she can probably get a kill in her lane, unless its Shen or something. The trick is getting to level 5 or 6 without being too battered from harassment. i'm not saying akali doesn't have burst but you pretty much highlighted the problem she has in your second sentence. good luck going against any solo lane champ in the game right now if you can't get strong til level 5. renekton Q and E both hit you in shroud, his heal is wayyyyyyyyyy too strong for your harass, you come close to get an auto on him and he stuns you with W, gg nasus E just wrecks shroud and his lifesteal lets him shrug off Qs. if you close to do the auto attack he hits you just as hard with HIS Q urgot? enjoy going in shroud when he can still lock onto you or hit you with his E engage leblanc at 6? okay she has double your burst ability and she's ranged to boot ryze? you joking me? Q up the ass all day every day teemo blinds when you try to get that auto off, rapes your bush dominance at 6 with shrooms. hits you with 3 auto attacks every time you try to get a creep. not a fun lane caitlyn uses piltover to demolish you through creeps and shroud or throws a trap in the shroud. gg invisiblity. corki hits you with phos in your shroud jarvan hits you in shroud with everything he has and every time you try to trade hits with him he does like 50% of your max life with his broken passive basically any lane-dominating solo that is played often these days is gonna crush akali before she hits 5. and even if they don't, at 5 most of them are too beefy to kill or they do even more burst than she does. this is just a bad meta for akali Half of your points could apply to any champion, and half of those abilities you mentioned are skillshots, which you can avoid. For example, Urgot's early game is really good versus any champion, and requires him to hit you with that goo before it locks on. I don't know how you can single out Akali when you could put any champion in the lane, and they could have trouble. Just because Akali starts picking up a lot at 5, doesn't mean she's horrible before that. You mention champions like Nasus and Renekton and their self-healing. Those are strong laners in general because they self-heal and any champion's harass would be pointless, but any good Akali would knows this and you're better off using Q to get last hits. And if you're going in for a kill or engagement, you should only engage when they are marked with your Q, and it's coming off cooldown, maximizing burst and doing a massive amount of damage to the enemy champion before they can finish their combo. Self-healing abilities? I take Ignite, as well as Flash, so I can disengage easily. Ryze is honestly a joke early game. If you're in a solo lane versus him, your Q trades equally with his, if not more in your favor, and his root is countered by Shroud. Never lost to a Ryze in a solo lane. Teemo can't throw down 10 Shrooms once he hits 6, and even when he hits 6, his mana regen isn't that great. He can't lay mushrooms and spam his Q on you and if you want a last hit on a creep without taking poison damage, use your Q. If he tries to zone, shroud and zone him back. It only takes about 2 rounds of Q -> R -> auto-attack to kill him around level 6 or 7 anyways, so do the damage, and back off, then repeat. There's no use chasing him. Caitlyn's Trap's graphic is huge. I don't know how you would run into it under your shroud, aside from stupid pathing issues that make you walk into it. Her Q is a skillshot, and has a fairly long wind-up animation, so unless you're a bad player in general, you shouldn't be getting hit that often by it. Corki's phospherous bomb can hit under shroud, sure. But if he did hit me with it, I most likely got a Q and auto-attack off. He would either do Valkyrie or Gatling Gun after that probably. If he follows with Gatling Gun, I'll just Q and auto-attack again because it would be up most likely, making this an even trade, or maybe in my favor. Jarvan is a tough lane for anyone. Like you said, his passive is really good, and it would hit any champion really hard. Luckily, Akali is one of the few champions that Jarvan can't really dive on a turret because of her burst and her shroud. A majority of your examples assume:1) you're getting hit by the enemy skillshots a lot (you shouldn't be, and if you can, you should bait skillshots with your shroud to waste enemy mana/cooldowns) 2) you don't trade damage with the enemy champion (you should always trade damage with the enemy, unless they just self-heal up, then you shouldn't have been overextended in the first place) 3) you have to be in melee range to get last hits (Last hits > champion harass, so use Q to snag any last hits you can) 4) your shroud is less useful that it really is (If you have a skirmish with the enemy near minions, the minions will most likely turn to attack both you and the enemy champion. Shroud resets their aggro, while your minions keep hitting the enemy. This damage can add up quite a bit. On another note, her shroud can protect her from damage while she is CC'd if you cast it before the CC lands) It seems like any of your examples could be applied to any melee champion in a solo lane. Singed or Kassadin could just as easily be zoned early game by any of the ranged champions you mentioned. Kassadin only has his Q for harass, and he's even limited by mana. The current meta is getting better for Akali. Remember the AOE ult metagame? Akali was basically dead once she jumped in there. Then there is the tanky DPS metagame that was, again, bad for Akali, since she is not optimal versus beefy champions, but its been shifting slightly away from that because of the increased ratios and lower base damage on tanky DPS. I don't see how the argument "Urgot is strong against everyone" detracts from gtrsrs' point. If the champions he's listing are more universally powerful than a champion like Akali it only makes them better, not worse. I also don't see how the "you're better off using Q to last hit" argument is useful. You don't want a champion who's going to let Nasus or Renekton farm to their hearts' content, and even if you did you'd certainly want someone different. It's nice that she can deal with adverse conditions more competently than other melee, but that doesn't translate into Nasus and Renekton being irrelevant. The champion by champion arguments in general seem pretty fruitless; it's fairly easy for both sides to come up with favorable scenarios for their points. However, I know for a fact that a bad Caitlyn laning against Akali for the first time, and a skilled one at that, can win the lane. The proof is this game, where I miraculously managed to go 2-0 on pre-buff Caitlyn against Westrice of all people despite missing nearly all my Qs, placing numerous useless traps, and having an unnatural attraction toward Westrice's shroud. He made mistakes as well, but I think it still speaks volumes that a bad pre-buff Caitlyn who had never faced Akali while playing a ranged carry prior to this match managed to do that. I'm not making the argument that Akali is a bad champion, because I don't believe she is. But I think gtrsrs made an extremely potent argument about why the tanky DPS meta isn't Akali's only problem, and I don't feel what you've provided is an adequate rebuttal.
Yeah, and after you had 2 kills on him he still managed to kill you =.= If he played more passive before level 6 you won't even have that 2 kills to begin with~ Plus he fucked up ROYALLY when he fed you the first time, lol.
I am pretty bad at Akali but I practiced solo numerous times vs decent TL solo players and the result is always the same: you lose out on about ~10 to 15cs pre-6 if you play passive and mass potions, and then it's complete reversal, except potions are a lot less useful past very early game so the enemy champ can't just stall out vs Akali the same way.
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On his first kill I engaged him when I had no mana, I walked back into his shroud twice, let him proc every single Q and didn't even use a potion during all of that when I had several available. I arguably didn't do anything right that kill and lost by an auto attack.
My point isn't that I'm an uber Caitlyn player, quite the opposite. I'm a terrible Caitlyn player. My point is that a terrible Caitlyn player spent the entire early laning phase screwing up while playing against one of the most well known Akali players in the game, and despite having no experience against Akali on any ranged AD champion was capable, even partially by dumb luck, to win out or come darn near close even in circumstances extremely favorable to Akali.
If Akali is a solo on par with the likes of Urgot, Teemo and Caitlyn that shouldn't be possible. But it happened, and the fact that I did horribly the rest of the game and had a bitter defeat only supports the argument that a Westrice-level Akali should not be capable of going 0-2 against a nub Caitlyn if those two champions are equal in lane strength.
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akali is real crazy right now i swear. the gunblade/revolver buff makes it insane
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Add Rumble to the list of heroes who absolutely roflstomps Akali solo.
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I think that akali built tanky is such a beast. You don't need to stack full ap to make her a sin that kills shit. Just something like Gunblade, slow scepter, sunfires is good I think. And then more tanky, and lich bane at the end.
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On April 30 2011 03:23 0123456789 wrote:
I think that akali built tanky is such a beast. You don't need to stack full ap to make her a sin that kills shit. Just something like Gunblade, slow scepter, sunfires is good I think. And then more tanky, and lich bane at the end.
lol? by more tanky you mean 1 more tanking item?
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numbers is hacking yo, got 8 item slots
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Akali is good but she's situational, vs. a tank heavy team she's so fucked, so I decided to pick up on corki. Amazing champ all around.
- Can harass really well
- 1v1 with bomb vs. melee it's impossible for them to win
- clear waves FAST, high creep kill counts
- Has an escape
- True Damage to melt tank meta game
- However, he is extremely squishy
decided to pick up on corki
went 5-0 in solo queue 1300+
all mid solo
really have to have mid solo as corki
Corki can't gank that well unfortunately, there's really NO CC about corki and diving in with jump move it's always a NO-NO. So really have to rely on farming mid early game and hope for the best that ur team do decent top and bottom then once mid game comes corki can really fire up.
I realized the most important thing, everyone is adopted to a certain play style, or rather, a play style that they used the most. It's really important to have a play style that suits you.
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What does that post have to do with Akali :|
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^ rofl yeah wtf is with the corki promotion
Anyway, so I'm pretty noob at akali cause I have trouble at top vs heimer =/ basically I feel like I can't do much without wasting all my pots >< I'm probably just not using my shroud well enough but those turrets are just so damn annoying. Basically what'll happen is I'll trade a Q with turret aggro and maybe a rocket. Also his grenade also hurts because of it's AoE even inside the shroud.
My last game I killed heimer for FB but I wasted all 4 pots, I felt that was pretty bad, or basically whenever I waste 4 pots on trying to kill someone I feel like a baddie lol. Any tips of how to use shroud better? I've basically just thrown it down on their minions or behind depending on where they are and just try and get a Q off then run back in and cs or if they're stupid to come back try to auto-attack and Q again etc...
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So, a question for you Akali players out there:
What do you do when the enemy tank buys an Oracle's to negate your Smoke Bomb invis in teamfights? I ask this from the perspective of a tank who often does this when playing vs. Akali, and usually it just shuts her down completely.
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On April 30 2011 23:00 Zato-1 wrote:
So, a question for you Akali players out there:
What do you do when the enemy tank buys an Oracle's to negate your Smoke Bomb invis in teamfights? I ask this from the perspective of a tank who often does this when playing vs. Akali, and usually it just shuts her down completely.
well in teamfights im not really trying to stay too long on the front lines. if its a dragon engagement or an engagement at baron, im usually kiting around sides trying to get a direct line to dash (her ult) to the squishies. R - Q - autoattack - E should be more than enough to bring the carry down.
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On May 01 2011 15:09 PBC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 23:00 Zato-1 wrote:
So, a question for you Akali players out there:
What do you do when the enemy tank buys an Oracle's to negate your Smoke Bomb invis in teamfights? I ask this from the perspective of a tank who often does this when playing vs. Akali, and usually it just shuts her down completely. well in teamfights im not really trying to stay too long on the front lines. if its a dragon engagement or an engagement at baron, im usually kiting around sides trying to get a direct line to dash (her ult) to the squishies. R - Q - autoattack - E should be more than enough to bring the carry down.
Never use E in teamfights. Gigantic waste of energy. (Unless you're building Akali with AD, in which case...herpaderp)
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If they have Oracle's the two most important things for you to do are 1) Don't get caught out of position and 2) Engage carefully. You have to rely on your team a lot in these circumstances, which can be very frustrating, but the alternative is to explode.
Also note that Shroud isn't useless even if they have Oracle's. It's 50/50 Armor/MR at maximum level which is a lot of survivability. It's not as good as being untargettable, but it's still something.
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I remember looking at westrice's video and him explicitly saying that the QRQ combo is probably the biggest burst for her.
Akali's a damn fun hero, im surprised she doesn't get more street cred at higher ELO
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Only just getting back into LoL after a 5 month'ish break, will be re-learning Jungle akali after all the Patch changes and will update OP when I find what i'm looking for.
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Jungle akali is not viable.
I am pretty convinced that Dorans shield is the way to go on Akali. Pretty much shrugs off low lvl auto attack and spell harass. Boots, dorans sword, amp tome are all pretty bad. Akali is good again because people are straying away from tankier teams and going with more soft teams which means free picking for akali, and in theory she rapes a lot of solo tops, and except for top elo which has seen westrice's akali, people don't how to play against her because she is underused.
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EPT
