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On February 15 2012 13:13 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 12:45 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2012 12:17 Dgiese wrote:On February 15 2012 10:21 Ryuu314 wrote:On February 15 2012 10:16 barbsq wrote:
just pointing this out, but i got wrecked earlier by an AP shen, and realized that he was bursting me for 700+ damage with vorpal + dash combo pretty regularly. Our top lane was a disaster tho, 0-11 ww (he randomed since he got the champ bug) so it's hard to tell whether it was due to snowball or whether AP is actually now pretty strong on shen. i'd imagine AP is weaker now considering how his ratios were all nerfed across teh board. with the exception of his dash now doing damage, but I guess that might contribute to why AP seems stronger... Nerfed across the board, but it adds up to higher ratio's on his damage, courtesy of dash (as u mentioned). he's now got 1.2 ap scaling on damage, instead of 0.7 or something. checked numbers .75 -> 1.1 on dmg. You're summing the ratio of 1 Vorpal + 1 Dash. That's not accounting for how the CD is longer, and how more energy-restrictive Dash is, particularly in small skirmishes where you won't land multi-target Dashes. You throw many more Vorpals in a fight than you do Dashes. Cooldown on Dash was reduced, and on vorpal it wasn't changed? And dash energy return was changed to 40x instead of flat 50, so even if u just dash 1 person thats a tiny nerf. Yes you will be throwing more vorpals, but I still feel like it's an AP Shen buff. Not that it really matters though, cause other builds just seem better.
Nah it's a huge AP shen nerf, no one even cares about the dmg E does and his W ratio got lowered as well
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Yeah but the things that did get lowered barely got lowered. and I feel like the reduction on vorpal when feint is up is even a buff in that regards.
I don't see how getting what is essentially a second spell to do damage with is a nerf.
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On February 15 2012 13:27 warscythes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 13:20 ManyCookies wrote:
Non-Shen player here, does he lose to any top lanes now? I think he lose to Warwick but that is about it.
That was my experience, I got mucked by a Warwick.
I might just be a bad Shen though, I also lost to Volibear.
How are you supposed to play this guy? I was going stuff like Boots3 -> HoG -> Wit's -> Phage, I never really felt strong in lane.
Q max? It never feels like it hits hard enough, the harass is ignorable by most sustainers (eventually anyways). I also feel very limited in skill usage, it's crazy how energy-starved he is compared to all the other ninjas. A whiffed Dash is completely crippling.
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On February 15 2012 14:19 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 13:27 warscythes wrote:On February 15 2012 13:20 ManyCookies wrote:
Non-Shen player here, does he lose to any top lanes now? I think he lose to Warwick but that is about it. That was my experience, I got mucked by a Warwick. I might just be a bad Shen though, I also lost to Volibear. How are you supposed to play this guy? I was going stuff like Boots3 -> HoG -> Wit's -> Phage, I never really felt strong in lane. Q max? It never feels like it hits hard enough, the harass is ignorable by most sustainers (eventually anyways). I also feel very limited in skill usage, it's crazy how energy-starved he is compared to all the other ninjas. A whiffed Dash is completely crippling.
Q is essentially free, you get to spam it which is why the damage has to be that low, although 240 is actually pretty high when it has no cost. You really shouldn't whiff shadow dash considering it is fairly simple to land it on a target.
The new Shen has one thing that is broken which you can abuse and that is his feint/ki strike. You just spam Q at the other guy and when you have an opportunity, shadow dash + ki strike + feint + vorpal blade, right click twice and another ki strike should pop up. They can't really deal with it. If they fight you they lose if they retreat then you zone them.
You lose to WW because his Q hits harder and heals more and you can't 1v1 a Warwick. Volibear can be spammed down with Q eventually.
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I just lost a lane to a riven, but it was kinda derpy cause of the low level action top. Kept getting 2/3 for 1s, but I was always the 1, so I ended up under leveled, but with a fed Kass, so we won. Not sure how the lane's supposed to go, but Riven's numbers are bullshit enough that i could believe she wins the lane.
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Haha, seeing so many Shens rush Belt->Warmog's with like an Aegis for resists and just rape face anyway because of how absurd Shen is.
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On February 15 2012 15:23 Mogwai wrote:
I just lost a lane to a riven, but it was kinda derpy cause of the low level action top. Kept getting 2/3 for 1s, but I was always the 1, so I ended up under leveled, but with a fed Kass, so we won. Not sure how the lane's supposed to go, but Riven's numbers are bullshit enough that i could believe she wins the lane.
riven lost to the lane pre-nerf riven and pre-buff shen, so it was probably just a bad game
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as I said, i ended up underleveled because of the early teamfights, but ultimately it was fine cause fed kass is pretty cool. she was maxing shield and it felt pretty obnoxious. Couldn't really dent her with harass and her damage was higher in committed fights. Meh, w/e, I'll wait till i see it again, being underleveled really changes the dynamic of nuke vs. shield harass.
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anyone know how the jungle/minion wave dps compares between wriggle's and ionic spark on shen? i feel like i need extra farming power after HoG + boots and it's really tempting to skip wriggle's because he doesn't seem to need the lifesteal at all.
on the other hand ionic spark has seemed really underwhelming whenever i've gotten it and there's something to be said for farming yourself back to full health after a fight with vorpal + wriggle's.
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if you want to dodge wriggle's, just get recurve -> phage and build recurve into wit's later. ionic is just bad.
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Oh hey, what's the better early/mid game armor item for Shen would you say? I feel like the CDR on Glacial is nice, but the MR is wasted. Just Warden's and build toward's Randuin's, or is Aegis enough Armor?
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On February 15 2012 15:37 Requizen wrote:
Oh hey, what's the better early/mid game armor item for Shen would you say? I feel like the CDR on Glacial is nice, but the MR is wasted. Just Warden's and build toward's Randuin's, or is Aegis enough Armor?
Aegis is best early/mid game survivability item. gives you everything. warden's mail can be good too since you should be getting an early hog and randuins is a must for late game against fed/farmed ad carries.
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On February 15 2012 15:37 Requizen wrote:
Oh hey, what's the better early/mid game armor item for Shen would you say? I feel like the CDR on Glacial is nice, but the MR is wasted. Just Warden's and build toward's Randuin's, or is Aegis enough Armor?
Randuins is the best option most likely, however although people hate on it, Sunfire cape deserves a mention in my opinion as it gives everything you like as Shen even though its passive is kind of poop.
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Randuins is core on shen IMO, with the taunt he procs its AS slow all the time and he's always in the middle of everything to use the active to full effect.
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So is the general consensus that Shen is broken or did we get ninjaed by something new and we need to adjust/recover from it before considering any nerfs?
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On February 15 2012 16:18 Shiragaku wrote:
So is the general consensus that Shen is broken or did we get ninjaed by something new and we need to adjust/recover from it before considering any nerfs?
As far as I consider Shen is not as overpowered as I thought he would be but he is still pretty overpowered. Not hotfix worthy but I will be VERY VERY surprised if he is not nerfed the next patch.
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So how do you guys think that Shen should be built??
I was thinking of nashors tooth for the AS (for the passive procing faster)/CDR/AP, rabadon for ap obviously, warmogs, ionian or ninja tabi shoes,two defensive/offensive item (maybe abyssal scepter for ap heavy team or randuin for ad etc...)
What do you think? I understand the build is quite expensive but i think it could work. I like the hybrid due to the fact that I can still achieve 4k hp (although I suffer not buying resistance item like armour or MR) and still playing as a support type (my ultimate can shield 1k+ about). Also what do you think of buying energy regen runes (so I can spam taunt more with CDR)
He seems REALLY strong. Like on the border of OP and perfectly balanced. However I can see his vorpal going down in dmg...
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On February 15 2012 17:39 heroyi wrote:
So how do you guys think that Shen should be built??
I was thinking of nashors tooth for the AS (for the passive procing faster)/CDR/AP, rabadon for ap obviously, warmogs, ionian or ninja tabi shoes,two defensive/offensive item (maybe abyssal scepter for ap heavy team or randuin for ad etc...)
What do you think? I understand the build is quite expensive but i think it could work. I like the hybrid due to the fact that I can still achieve 4k hp (although I suffer not buying resistance item like armour or MR) and still playing as a support type (my ultimate can shield 1k+ about). Also what do you think of buying energy regen runes (so I can spam taunt more with CDR)
He seems REALLY strong. Like on the border of OP and perfectly balanced. However I can see his vorpal going down in dmg...
Shen doesn't need AP at all to do damage. The scaling on his Ki strike is ridiculous and you're better off itemizing for that. Nashors tooth is still a noob trap imo and ionic spark isn't very good either. Wit's end gives you plenty of attack speed and also gives you the necessary tankiness. Atmogs can be really solid on him since it scales well with his passive, but can be a bitch to farm. Phage->triforce or phage->mallet can be really good too.
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So I feel like Kennen probably a bad matchup for Shen, his auto-attack range larger than vorpal although once I got wits it was going much better, still dunno what I could have done. Won the lane anyway because I had my Nautilus camping the shit out of him.
In general though I've been opening boots or cloth and rushing wriggles into Phage --> Wits ---> Mallet/Aegis
Theoretical full build being something like Wriggles/Mercs(or tabi)/Wits/Mallet/Aegis/Atmas
Still experimenting though. Fun to be playing Shen again, getting lots of compliments on Scorpion Shen Skin ^_^
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United States37500 Posts
On February 15 2012 18:03 Lancer723 wrote:
So I feel like Kennen probably a bad matchup for Shen, his auto-attack range larger than vorpal although once I got wits it was going much better, still dunno what I could have done. Won the lane anyway because I had my Nautilus camping the shit out of him.
In general though I've been opening boots or cloth and rushing wriggles into Phage --> Wits ---> Mallet/Aegis
Theoretical full build being something like Wriggles/Mercs(or tabi)/Wits/Mallet/Aegis/Atmas
Still experimenting though. Fun to be playing Shen again, getting lots of compliments on Scorpion Shen Skin ^_^
Yeah, even though Scorpion and Sub-Zero Shen skins were the same cost, Scorpion skin got a new loading screen portrait but Sub-Zero didn't. I bought the Scorpion one too. :3
Played another Shen game and lost lane vs a Rumble. Was ahead early on but it just went downhill after Rumble got Revolver. I was ahead in CS all game but I had zero lane control midgame.
So far it seems Rumble, Riven and Kennen can hard counter Shen in lane. Not surprisingly, it's manaless champions that have a chance vs him.
Trinity is pretty good but I'd only go that when I'm ahead.
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EPT
