|
You'll almost never ever stun anyone with a level 1 shuriken alone. Bush checking with it is legit but let's not pretend level 1 shuriken is significant damage either. It ultimately gives away position on both sides. Incidentally, taking W at level 1 occasionally lets you pull off a stun if a level 1 fight lasts long enough.
In ether case, not sure how taking Q at level 1 would be better vs Kassadin. It's really hard to hit, it can't even fire if you are silenced (compared to a W-charged auto), and it does more or less the same damage is an autoattack. A [W]-charged auto followed by a [W] in exchange for a Null Sphere actually favors Kennen, and it instantly puts 2 marks on Kassadin, meaning he will need to back the hell up or lose his lane right there.
Incidentally, by taking [W] at level 1, you are also taking [E] at level 2. That way, Kassadin will be forced to eat Kennen's auto everytime W is charged.
At level 3, you take another point in [W]. At this point, [W]'s cooldown will be shorter than mark of the storm's duration, so you can really abuse the shit out of kassadin since [W]'s range is what, 900? which is 200 longer than Q.
If Kennen takes shuriken at level 1, this whole strategy falls apart, and you're basically condeding free-farm to Kassadin, which is what a lot of you are suggesting Kennen should do.
???
|
W range is shorter then Q's actuall hit range.
And you don't need E at lvl 2.
I actually skill this btw:
Q>W>W>E>Q
your saying Q-ing bushes gives away your position. So what? your doing it to NOT GET FUCKED, and the chances of you hitting a person with a w passive in a team fight twice is not even discussable. that person would've backed a long time ago if he has 2 MOTS on him. Taking Q, however, will give you greater damage output and a higher range attack.
And no, getting shuriken first doesn't let Kassadin win the lane, unless your really really reallllyyyy fucking bad.
And if you say he has to eat your W autoattack every time its charged, you'll be giving up your own cs aswell.
|
I'm saying checking bushes alone is not reason enough to take Q at level 1 by itself. It's strange that you think it's laughable to hit someone with 2 W passives, and yet feasible to hit the
same person 3 times with a level 1 shuriken. Ultimately, in order stun a single target in a level 1 teamfight, I just need to make 5 consecutive autoattacks on the same target (xxxOxxxO, and then hit W. It's quite feasible if your teammates have any sort of CC/exhaust
Shuriken's not really that much better for that level 1 teamfight, and you give up a massive lead vs Kassadin when you lane vs him. If you really think you'll need shuriken because a level 1 teamfight happens 100% of the time, then by all means take Q and give up your massive advantage levels 1-3 vs Kassadin.
Taking [E] at level 2 means Kassadin can't just back up everytime you charge your W, since you can close the gap and put the mark on him. You don't lose out on any creepkill because you aren't holding onto your charged W; it's being used immediately to harass.
Kassadin will eventually beat Kennen after level 5 when his Q starts hitting harder and harder, in addition to having more magic resist, a passive that reduces magic damage, and more regen via SoS which also scales up with levels. The whole business of taking Q at level 1 means you have to hit shurikens to do any harassing. If Kassadin simply doesn't care and just gives up a little bit of farm, he can just wait it out until he's got the advantage and then turn the tables.
|
I have a really hard time laning vs Kassadin no matter who the heck I'm playing (though I haven't tried my cho gath with flat mres yet though...). It's bloody annoying, at least with Vlad his Q doesn't have six million range anymore.
Like if I'm a caster and I'm laning vs Kass I just start weeping right there.
|
On January 17 2011 02:31 phyvo wrote:
I have a really hard time laning vs Kassadin no matter who the heck I'm playing (though I haven't tried my cho gath with flat mres yet though...). It's bloody annoying, at least with Vlad his Q doesn't have six million range anymore.
Like if I'm a caster and I'm laning vs Kass I just start weeping right there.
play urgot bro, all your problems will go away
|
I've been thinking about neglecting level 2 ulti in favor of maxing Q/E, any thoughts?
|
if u have blue buff i would take ulti for shure, hands down
riftwalk stacks imba
the main advantage of levelling r at 11 though is that it reduces the cd on ur ult by 1 second.
6-> 5 is quite a bit of a reduction.
of course, if you play 100% vulture kassadin style it is fine to level e instead if u r going a q-centric build or vice versa. however even then levelling r for the faster escape time and damage with stacks makes it a choice to think about.
|
Kassadin is BEAST on TT. The only bad thing is that there's no blue buff on the map so mana management is trickier.
|
United States37500 Posts
On January 19 2011 02:13 Mogwai wrote:
Kassadin is BEAST on TT. The only bad thing is that there's no blue buff on the map so mana management is trickier.
Kass isn't a very popular pick on TT for some reason.
|
On January 19 2011 02:22 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 02:13 Mogwai wrote:
Kassadin is BEAST on TT. The only bad thing is that there's no blue buff on the map so mana management is trickier. Kass isn't a very popular pick on TT for some reason.
If I had to guess I'd say it's because he takes a little while to kick in (he feels like a bit of dead weight up until level 6) but I still think he's one of the best, if not the very best, AP carries on TT. Riftwalk is just so broken for kiting on that stage.
|
United States37500 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:07 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 02:22 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2011 02:13 Mogwai wrote:
Kassadin is BEAST on TT. The only bad thing is that there's no blue buff on the map so mana management is trickier. Kass isn't a very popular pick on TT for some reason. If I had to guess I'd say it's because he takes a little while to kick in (he feels like a bit of dead weight up until level 6) but I still think he's one of the best, if not the very best, AP carries on TT. Riftwalk is just so broken for kiting on that stage.
TT is still a very tanky meta. One of your champions can have a jump like Riftwalk, Trynd's Spin or Shaco's Deceive. But the problem is what you said, Kass has a weak presence until mid/late game. Kass's best skill is his Force Pulse but over all, everything Kass can do, Shaco can do just as well and clown has jungle control.
|
I still haven't seen a good shaco on TT tbh. How would you build him so that he doesn't just instantly explode vs. most teams? That's always been my issue with him in theorycrafting, but I just haven't seen any of them to prove otherwise.
|
United States37500 Posts
On January 19 2011 03:38 Mogwai wrote:
I still haven't seen a good shaco on TT tbh. How would you build him so that he doesn't just instantly explode vs. most teams? That's always been my issue with him in theorycrafting, but I just haven't seen any of them to prove otherwise.
Most of the time, if you don't snowball and playing vs a competent team, you'll want to go Madred's => Banshee. Yes, you're squishy but make use of the stealth/jump. Spell block helps immensely.
Randuin's looks good on paper (simple pre-reqs, great physical defense, nice active) but it's not something I've actually tried yet.
Bloodrazor is an eventual must because most teams run at least two tanks, if not three.
|
hmm, interesting. If I didn't suck so hard with shaco, I'd try to try him out on TT, but I seriously blow with him. Actually, this is stupid, I'm going to make a TT discussion thread so that we don't ruin Character specific threads with generalized talk about a specific map.
|
On January 19 2011 03:10 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 03:07 Mogwai wrote:On January 19 2011 02:22 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2011 02:13 Mogwai wrote:
Kassadin is BEAST on TT. The only bad thing is that there's no blue buff on the map so mana management is trickier. Kass isn't a very popular pick on TT for some reason. If I had to guess I'd say it's because he takes a little while to kick in (he feels like a bit of dead weight up until level 6) but I still think he's one of the best, if not the very best, AP carries on TT. Riftwalk is just so broken for kiting on that stage. TT is still a very tanky meta. One of your champions can have a jump like Riftwalk, Trynd's Spin or Shaco's Deceive. But the problem is what you said, Kass has a weak presence until mid/late game. Kass's best skill is his Force Pulse but over all, everything Kass can do, Shaco can do just as well and clown has jungle control.
Has more to do with the fact that Kass's best skill is an aoe that's going to be hitting less people, that he already has huge problem burning down tanks, and that he can't jungle worth a dick on a map where jungle control is paramount.
I honestly wouldn't run kass in the solo lane when I could give it to cho or something similar.
|
On January 22 2011 06:26 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 03:10 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2011 03:07 Mogwai wrote:On January 19 2011 02:22 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2011 02:13 Mogwai wrote:
Kassadin is BEAST on TT. The only bad thing is that there's no blue buff on the map so mana management is trickier. Kass isn't a very popular pick on TT for some reason. If I had to guess I'd say it's because he takes a little while to kick in (he feels like a bit of dead weight up until level 6) but I still think he's one of the best, if not the very best, AP carries on TT. Riftwalk is just so broken for kiting on that stage. TT is still a very tanky meta. One of your champions can have a jump like Riftwalk, Trynd's Spin or Shaco's Deceive. But the problem is what you said, Kass has a weak presence until mid/late game. Kass's best skill is his Force Pulse but over all, everything Kass can do, Shaco can do just as well and clown has jungle control. Has more to do with the fact that Kass's best skill is an aoe that's going to be hitting less people, that he already has huge problem burning down tanks, and that he can't jungle worth a dick on a map where jungle control is paramount. I honestly wouldn't run kass in the solo lane when I could give it to cho or something similar.
Force Pulse is one of my favorite anti-tank skills in the game tbh. It allows so much kiting and has a great combination of CD, AoE size, CC duration, damage and mana cost. It might not be able to rip a tank up as quickly Feast or a Malz pool or Hungering Strike, but Kassadin just kills by kiting anyway and it's pretty much optimal for his playstyle.
I mean, Utah's favorite meta-game to play Kass in was the Tank spam meta, where he could just relentlessly dick over all Melee with Force Pulse. TT's meta is pretty similar to that meta, so I think it's really effective for the same reasons.
|
Speaking of TT Shaco, when i have shitty game as shaco on SR i usually go br -> tank or when i feed REALLY hard i go lantern -> tank and usually have np problem coming back. Though it may be just enemies being bad and focusing me since i'm supposedly "squishy"
|
TT = blink heroes all over to win games.
If there was a blue buff on TT then TT would be ruled by anivia, kassadin and lux.
|
On January 22 2011 06:56 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 06:26 L wrote:On January 19 2011 03:10 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2011 03:07 Mogwai wrote:On January 19 2011 02:22 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2011 02:13 Mogwai wrote:
Kassadin is BEAST on TT. The only bad thing is that there's no blue buff on the map so mana management is trickier. Kass isn't a very popular pick on TT for some reason. If I had to guess I'd say it's because he takes a little while to kick in (he feels like a bit of dead weight up until level 6) but I still think he's one of the best, if not the very best, AP carries on TT. Riftwalk is just so broken for kiting on that stage. TT is still a very tanky meta. One of your champions can have a jump like Riftwalk, Trynd's Spin or Shaco's Deceive. But the problem is what you said, Kass has a weak presence until mid/late game. Kass's best skill is his Force Pulse but over all, everything Kass can do, Shaco can do just as well and clown has jungle control. Has more to do with the fact that Kass's best skill is an aoe that's going to be hitting less people, that he already has huge problem burning down tanks, and that he can't jungle worth a dick on a map where jungle control is paramount. I honestly wouldn't run kass in the solo lane when I could give it to cho or something similar. Force Pulse is one of my favorite anti-tank skills in the game tbh. It allows so much kiting and has a great combination of CD, AoE size, CC duration, damage and mana cost. It might not be able to rip a tank up as quickly Feast or a Malz pool or Hungering Strike, but Kassadin just kills by kiting anyway and it's pretty much optimal for his playstyle. I mean, Utah's favorite meta-game to play Kass in was the Tank spam meta, where he could just relentlessly dick over all Melee with Force Pulse. TT's meta is pretty similar to that meta, so I think it's really effective for the same reasons.
Its not. Kass needs a solo lane in order to do well. The solo lane on TT benefits from pushing hard and then jungling, getting a huge xp advantage in the process. Kass cannot do that. In fact, he's crushingly weak against that type of play. Kass will be behind in levels and will not be able to burst anyone down if he goes to the dual lane and the problem compounds itself even more.
Blinking over walls is fantastic, but there are heros that can do so that perform better on TT in general.
|
Okay, how do you lane v Irelia? I have no idea how to play that matchup. She has too much lifesteal to Q her down, she has better laning burst, and I can't stop her from farming.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
